#garfield Logs
May 25 2020
#garfield Calendar
02:43 AM rue_bed: internet got quiet again, right across
06:05 AM polprog: i git myself a signal gen
06:05 AM polprog: https://polprog.net/rozne1/ircjunk/various/tek1910.jpg
06:05 AM polprog: got*
07:19 AM polprog: what's the name of the black and white cat ?
09:14 AM rue_mohr: maud
09:14 AM polprog: is it pronounced like baud?
09:14 AM rue_mohr: it works, good show
09:15 AM polprog: severe lack of free time today and tomorrow
09:15 AM rue_mohr: thats me for the next 3 weeks
09:16 AM polprog: sadly. on wed ill probably go look at cameras, thu is my bday
09:16 AM rue_mohr: happy survival celebration!
09:16 AM polprog: hehe
09:17 AM rue_mohr: at the start of the weekend I set the tea to be on for 4800 minutes
09:18 AM rue_mohr: cause I got frustrated
09:18 AM rue_mohr: so I'v turned it off
09:18 AM polprog: so its non stop hot?
09:18 AM rue_mohr: yea, but off now
10:02 AM polprog: note to self.. dont write long pieces of text when barely awake
10:02 AM polprog: you will have to do heavy editing to make it understandable
10:02 AM polprog: technical text*
10:04 AM polprog: wonder if i should put Hackers Delight as "further reading" for this document
10:04 AM polprog: it does talk about bitflipping (its essentially an stm32 crash course) but the title is less than ideal
10:04 AM polprog: screw it
10:04 AM polprog: i will
10:04 AM polprog: its a good book
10:11 AM polprog: just in time when i got the generator i saw your retweet of that japaneese guy who was testing transistors for video bandwidth :P
10:11 AM polprog: there's another project! aaaaaa
10:11 AM polprog: i need to think if there is a noninverting transistor amplifier config
10:11 AM polprog: single transistor that is
10:33 AM polprog: do you have your tea with or without sugar?
10:50 AM Tom_L: milk/cream iirc
10:54 AM polprog: hmm. i havent had that for ages
11:11 AM Tom_L: i don't do cream in tea
11:12 AM polprog: me neither. nor sugar
11:50 AM Tom_L: does dd buffer a write
11:51 AM Tom_L: the terminal indicated done but eject the sd said operations pending
11:52 AM polprog: dd might not, but the kernel may
11:52 AM polprog: try running "sync" as root
11:52 AM polprog: that syncs the IO devices
11:52 AM polprog: er.
11:52 AM polprog: waits for them to sync
11:52 AM polprog: i think its kinda like safely remove device on windows
11:52 AM Tom_L: i'll wait til it quits blinking
11:53 AM polprog: hardware indicators are the best
11:53 AM Tom_L: it may have written the image and is blanking the remainder of the sd?
11:53 AM polprog: no.. it should write as many bytes as the input file has
11:53 AM polprog: and then exit
11:54 AM Tom_L: and that's what the terminal did
11:54 AM Tom_L: but it's still blinking
11:54 AM polprog: the SD reader?
11:54 AM Tom_L: yes
11:55 AM Tom_L: i'm writing to it
11:55 AM polprog: id give it a minute.. its a big transfer
11:55 AM polprog: you can't tell if its the kernel device buffer, the usb buffer, the buffer in the reader
11:55 AM Tom_L: ok it just said it's safe to remove now
11:55 AM polprog: its buffers all the way down ;)
11:56 AM Tom_L: something to remember for sure :)
04:10 PM zhanx_ is now known as zhanx
06:45 PM aandrew: you guys might enjoy this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_capacitor_paradox
07:26 PM rue_mohr: but C doubled
07:26 PM aandrew: anyone interested in the entire circuit cellar archive from 1998-2013?
07:26 PM aandrew: all pdfs, let me see if I have the file downloads too
07:27 PM rue_mohr: love paging thru that stuff!
07:29 PM aandrew: rue_mohr: me too, sadly I got out of it in the mid-2000s(ish) because all it ever ended up being is "let's do something super easy but do it the lazy way by buying a sensor/whatever module and an arduino"
07:29 PM aandrew: I also had (have?) a damn near full archive of popular electronics and radio-electronics
07:29 PM aandrew: THOSE I grew up thumbing through and in grade 9 my grade 11 electroncis teacher GAVE me like 20 years worth of them
07:30 PM aandrew: pretty sure those got way more use than the collection of playboys I found :-)
07:32 PM aandrew: nope, the cc archive I have is only the pdfs, which is still pretty good in its own right
07:36 PM rue_mohr: I started marking all the pages on interest in my "electronic design" collection
07:36 PM rue_mohr: the books with nothing good I ditched
07:36 PM rue_mohr: I'll pull the pages of interest out sometime and get rid of the rest
07:37 PM aandrew: oh nice
07:37 PM aandrew: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1xeU29a9ZSZfGGtYFe625S9jttg_Ra2Oy is circuit cellar project files from 1988-present
07:37 PM aandrew: downloading that
07:38 PM aandrew: rue_mohr: I used to do that, especially with EDN
07:38 PM aandrew: discovered I suck at that because pages get lost
07:38 PM rue_mohr: yar
07:38 PM rue_mohr: sometimes the perphial history is entertaining too
07:39 PM aandrew: yep
07:39 PM aandrew: old ads for ITT Tech or old scope ads
07:40 PM rue_mohr: or those compinent listings in the back
07:40 PM aandrew: 1.2GB for all those project files
07:41 PM rue_mohr: so i need to know the pulse time for the relays
07:41 PM aandrew: why are you interested in knowing how fast they are? this doesn't seem like a high speed application
07:46 PM rue_mohr: i cant run them all at fullpower or I'll cook my 0.1% resistors
07:46 PM rue_mohr: so, I'll work out their dropout voltage, work out their pullin voltage,
07:47 PM rue_mohr: maybe go 50% between the two
07:48 PM aandrew: ....
07:48 PM rue_mohr: then I need to know how long to pulse them to pull in
07:48 PM aandrew: your precision resistors are in the the contact path, not the coil path
07:48 PM rue_mohr: sorry, 50000 things going on in the house just now
07:49 PM rue_mohr: those coils PUSH HEAT
07:49 PM aandrew: no worries, I'm happy to get whatever idle time you ahve
07:49 PM rue_mohr: wholy!
07:49 PM aandrew: oh the coils are getting hot and you're cooking the resistors not with dissipated power but with ambient heating
07:49 PM rue_mohr: so, I caibrated the sets to 1%,
07:49 PM rue_mohr: then when I checked them, after soldering, they were way low
07:49 PM rue_mohr: cause of the soldering temps
07:50 PM rue_mohr: so, I got a feel for how the heat throws them off
07:50 PM rue_mohr: the screen is 5w (4w?)
07:50 PM rue_mohr: I have 24 relays to put in there
07:50 PM rue_mohr: well
07:50 PM rue_mohr: 20
07:50 PM rue_mohr: 4 I'm not using
07:51 PM rue_mohr: tho I might make a trimming range
07:51 PM rue_mohr: either way, I'd best keep the power down
07:51 PM aandrew: there are some really nice tricks you can use to whack the relays on with a high current pulse and then fall back to a lower holding current
07:51 PM rue_mohr: yea
07:52 PM rue_mohr: I'm gonna use a regulator to drop the normal voltage
07:52 PM aandrew: as simple as V+---R---R/C---mmmmm---GND
07:52 PM rue_mohr: about 8.5
07:52 PM rue_mohr: and then put a bypass on it to the full 12V
07:52 PM rue_mohr: so, the question is, how long to pulse the bypass
07:52 PM aandrew: you could also drive them with a constant current although that seems silly
07:53 PM rue_mohr: pullin current is prolly higher than holding current
07:53 PM rue_mohr: also, all the board drivers are made, voltage regulation is an easy add
07:53 PM rue_mohr: some datasheets seem to suggest pwm
07:53 PM rue_mohr: bla, ->voltage regulation
07:54 PM rue_mohr: I still have to make the power baord anyhow
07:55 PM rue_mohr: I think I want to get the faceplate assembled first
07:55 PM rue_mohr: lots of whats left is software
07:55 PM rue_mohr: the software potential on this one is crazy
07:56 PM rue_mohr: standard value tables, thermal and error compensation..
07:57 PM rue_mohr: there is the serial UI to work out
07:58 PM rue_mohr: toaster oven and strip some hard drive pcbs too
07:59 PM Tom_L: come get mine
08:06 PM rue_mohr: I need to make one up
08:06 PM rue_mohr: I should do your firmware and get get mine on its feet
08:06 PM rue_mohr: I'm still all bo-jangled with it
08:08 PM Tom_L: i won't use it
08:08 PM Tom_L: come get mine
08:08 PM rue_mohr: I should find out the cost on a pallette
08:09 PM rue_mohr: dont think you'll do anymre eh?
08:09 PM Tom_L: no
08:09 PM Tom_L: my pile of 'i won't use it' keeps growing
08:10 PM Tom_L: is your power like the US or overseas?
08:10 PM rue_mohr: same as usa
08:10 PM rue_mohr: 120V 60Hz
08:10 PM rue_mohr: 120/240
08:10 PM Tom_L: cause inflex had 220v on his and we didn't think about that when i did my board
08:10 PM rue_mohr: except where its 120/208
08:11 PM Tom_L: should work ok
08:11 PM rue_mohr: I put lots of work into mine
08:11 PM Tom_L: sadly most of this will sit until it gets tossed out
08:11 PM rue_mohr: but iirc one of the SSRs shorted
08:11 PM Tom_L: nobody else here will use it
08:11 PM rue_mohr: I wonder how much a pallette is to ship
08:12 PM Tom_L: more than the junk is worth?
08:12 PM rue_mohr: I think there is a weird price thing as soon as its not just a box
08:12 PM rue_mohr: goes down for some reason
08:12 PM Tom_L: yeah and probably throws up alot more border flags too
08:13 PM rue_mohr: I generally seem to hear people say its not an issue
08:14 PM Tom_L: i don't know a thing about it
08:14 PM rue_mohr: I'll try to find out if ya like
08:14 PM Tom_L: or even who to ask
08:14 PM rue_mohr: have access to smaller pallettes?
08:14 PM rue_mohr: like the 24" x 36" ones?
08:14 PM Tom_L: i dunno
08:15 PM rue_mohr: k, some people have piles of them
08:15 PM Tom_L: wouldn't know where to find one
08:15 PM rue_mohr: hospital will have a pile
08:15 PM Tom_L: it would need to be a box
08:15 PM rue_mohr: and the building supplies places
08:15 PM rue_mohr: na, ya wrap it up on a pallette and its a different category
08:15 PM rue_mohr: or boxes on a pallette
08:16 PM rue_mohr: something changes about its classification
08:16 PM Tom_L: seems a bit sketchy to ship this sort of stuff
08:16 PM rue_mohr: ? why
08:16 PM Tom_L: dunno
08:16 PM rue_mohr: na
08:16 PM Tom_L: just never thought about it
08:17 PM Tom_L: i'm not about to inventory it
08:17 PM rue_mohr: I'd love to drive down and visit
08:17 PM rue_mohr: "development system" ->done!
08:17 PM rue_mohr: oh I bet my guru knows
08:18 PM rue_mohr: he had a postal drop on the other side of the border
08:18 PM rue_mohr: I think he uses it all the time
08:18 PM Tom_L: who would ship it though?
08:18 PM rue_mohr: it would ship from you, if I use the drop, it could probably even go by ups and not be stupid
08:18 PM rue_mohr: shipping within the usa isn't awefull
08:19 PM Tom_L: it's getting there
08:19 PM rue_mohr: as soon as it crosses the border by anyone other than the owner, its insane
08:19 PM rue_mohr: it could also be catagorized as scrap and not be questioned
08:19 PM Tom_L: those things i was sending for $3 are more like $9 now
08:20 PM rue_mohr: aparently the scrap catagory is pretty damn wide
08:20 PM rue_mohr: ouch
08:20 PM rue_mohr: I'll ask my guru
08:20 PM rue_mohr: do you want to get rid of the FR4?
08:20 PM rue_mohr: how much do you think you have?
08:21 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/etching/Copper2.jpg
08:21 PM Tom_L: and 4 or so full sheets, maybe more
08:21 PM rue_mohr: cant tell how big those are tho
08:21 PM Tom_L: it hasn't moved from that spot
08:21 PM rue_mohr: heh, it looks like there more tha 8" wide!
08:21 PM Tom_L: i'd guess 18" long on the small ones
08:22 PM Tom_L: look at the studs
08:22 PM rue_mohr: k
08:22 PM rue_mohr: so thats pretty good then
08:22 PM rue_mohr: any of it single sided?
08:22 PM Tom_L: more than i'll use in 10 lifetimes
08:22 PM Tom_L: nope
08:22 PM rue_mohr: huh
08:22 PM Tom_L: well, maybe but not very much
08:22 PM rue_mohr: I'm worried latley as I'v started etching like crazy
08:22 PM Tom_L: iirc there was 1 thin sheet
08:23 PM Tom_L: like .32"
08:23 PM Tom_L: .032
08:23 PM rue_mohr: I'v discovered that most times I can design, etch, and assemble a board faster than protoboarding it
08:23 PM rue_mohr: it prolly weighs a bunch then eh?
08:24 PM Tom_L: for sure
08:24 PM rue_mohr: 50lbs?
08:24 PM rue_mohr: 25?
08:24 PM Tom_L: probably more
08:24 PM Tom_L: i dunno
08:24 PM Tom_L: more than i care to lift in one load
08:25 PM Tom_L: so i built a kernel and linuxcnc from scratch to test today
08:25 PM Tom_L: on the rpi
08:27 PM rue_mohr: did it work?
08:28 PM aandrew: so do any of you also raid the "electronics recycling dropoff" bins when you see them around when driving?
08:31 PM rue_mohr: phoned him
08:31 PM rue_mohr: just learned more ins and outs of shipping than I thought could exist
08:32 PM rue_mohr: aandrew, I have a policy at home of "pound-in - pound-out" and I'm severly over just latley
08:32 PM rue_mohr: but I got lots of cleanup to do
08:33 PM rue_mohr: like the 108 hard drive boards...
08:33 PM rue_mohr: LTL = less than truckload
08:33 PM rue_mohr: price by cubic foot, usually not less than a 4' cube
08:33 PM rue_mohr: Tom_L, how much would you like to get rid of?
08:34 PM rue_mohr: :)
08:34 PM rue_mohr: I'm gonna go do something usefull
08:35 PM aandrew: rue_mohr: yeah, it's a good policy and essential
08:36 PM Tom_L: hard to say really
08:36 PM Tom_L: would take a good while to sort it out
08:39 PM rue_mohr: I'll find out more
08:41 PM aandrew: Tom_L: that is an insane pile of copper
08:42 PM Tom_L: no, i had 2 full pickups full
08:42 PM Tom_L: that was insane
08:45 PM aandrew: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/shtylenko_robots-robotics-ugcPost-6669196888102707201-Rp4b ok that is pretty wild
08:45 PM aandrew: I hate linkedin's attempts to trap you into their site
08:53 PM rue_mohr: about 3ms
09:15 PM aandrew: I may have missed the earlier discussion (not seeing it in hte scrollback) - how did you come upon such a large amount of double sided FR4
09:16 PM Tom_L: happened upon a local board house that was going under
09:17 PM Tom_L: they gave me a 5gal pail of acid too but i didn't keep it
09:17 PM aandrew: rue_mohr: when I moved back to Ontario I had a company ship a bunch of the bigger stuff - their LTL prices were very reasonable. basically it went by cubic feet and not weight, and you brought your stuff to one of their DCs where they'd watch you load it on a pallet, get all the paperwork sorted, use that industrial cling-wrap to finish it off and give you a receipt
09:18 PM aandrew: then when it arrives at the other side, you go to their DC and pick it up
09:18 PM aandrew: but don't expect much help on that end. Their workers drive skid-steers and forklifts and that's about it. The'd love you if you just drove up with a truck and they would put it right on the bed
09:19 PM aandrew: cost me $870 to ship one standard (3x3? 4x4?) pallet about 6' high
09:20 PM aandrew: their quoted rate is $250/m^3
09:21 PM aandrew: price drops to 200/m^3 if 5+ m^3, and tha'ts from YVR to YYZ (shipping, not air, just the airport codes are convenient)
09:22 PM aandrew: I suspect if you were shipping pallets of depleted uranium they might change their pricing scheme, but they did not inspect any of the boxes I brought, just did a Tetris on them to make them fit as best/securely as possible then saran-wrapped them
09:23 PM rue_shop1: cut-in is 5.5V
09:24 PM rue_shop1: huh
09:25 PM rue_shop1: dropout is 2.1V
09:25 PM rue_shop1: so, I can hold at like 4V
09:26 PM rue_shop1: wow
09:26 PM rue_shop1: aandrew, who did you use?
09:26 PM rue_shop1: just local and they work it out?
09:28 PM aandrew: yeah
09:29 PM aandrew: AQLogistics is their name, I spoke with Vicky Guo
09:29 PM aandrew: I had contacted a half dozen, 4 never bothered to return a call
09:29 PM aandrew: must be nice to have so much business
09:29 PM aandrew: for shipping my wife's car I used Livingston International
09:30 PM aandrew: but there are dozens of companies, all who resell CN vehicle transportation service
09:30 PM rue_shop1: ok, so, both stories seem to call for a manifest
09:30 PM aandrew: all the rules are the same because they all have to follow CN's rules
09:30 PM aandrew: stories?
09:30 PM rue_shop1: what you said and what my guru said there
09:31 PM aandrew: ah
09:31 PM rue_shop1: I presume you meant they do a manifest when they watch you load the pallette
09:31 PM aandrew: well these guys didn't care for information on what was in the boxes, I just told them it was apartment contents
09:31 PM aandrew: nope not at all
09:31 PM rue_shop1: hmm
09:31 PM rue_shop1: I wonder if "electronics development system" is good enough for them
09:32 PM aandrew: I had 3ft^3 boxes from a storage place that I filled with all kinds of shit and then Tetris'd them along with other boxes on to a skid
09:32 PM rue_shop1: the relays seem to hold fine at 4V
09:32 PM rue_shop1: and I only need to pulse them with 12V for like 3ms
09:33 PM aandrew: right, makes sense
09:35 PM rue_shop1: at 4V they pull 14mA
09:35 PM rue_shop1: 56mw
09:36 PM rue_shop1: at 12V they pull 40mA
09:36 PM rue_shop1: 480mW
09:37 PM rue_shop1: at that rate
09:38 PM rue_shop1: I could have a diode from a 5V supply doing the holding power
09:38 PM rue_shop1: and another diode from a switched 12V doing latching power
09:38 PM rue_shop1: even if all 24 relays pulled, I'd only be looking at less than 400mA
09:39 PM rue_shop1: any of the dc-dc can handle that
09:40 PM aandrew: yeah, interesting
09:40 PM rue_shop1: I wonder if I should try and make my own 5V 1A dc-dc
09:41 PM rue_shop1: prolly not
09:41 PM rue_shop1: tho I'm tempted
09:45 PM rue_shop1: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33032680575.html
09:45 PM rue_shop1: I got some of those
09:45 PM rue_shop1: 3A
09:46 PM rue_shop1: ok, even 1.8 isok
09:50 PM rue_shop2: I suppose if I just use a slow-old opto to turn the pulse fet on and off, I'm ok
09:52 PM aandrew: nice, I have a bunch of these for the boys' projects: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07JNQFV7F and https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07L3F9PV3
09:53 PM rue_shop2: yea
09:53 PM rue_shop2: I have a bunch of those I keep in stock
09:54 PM rue_shop2: yea ok
09:54 PM rue_shop2: that'll give me 4.3V holding for the relays
09:55 PM rue_shop2: I'll need to be carefull of the time for the opto driving the fet, but it shouldn't be anything that matters in the scope of 3ms
09:56 PM aandrew: why optos?
09:56 PM rue_shop2: easy
09:56 PM aandrew: you've already got isolation
09:56 PM rue_shop2: dont need the isolation at all
09:57 PM rue_shop2: if I
09:57 PM rue_shop2: actually
09:57 PM rue_shop2: your right, if I use a 2N7000, I dont need one of the resistors
09:58 PM aandrew: it's quite interesting to watch the development process
09:58 PM rue_shop2: technically, now I could replace the 2N7000 and the P channel fet, with a AOP605
09:58 PM rue_shop2: I"m not doing it to cheap out on parts, I just dont want to have to assemble them
09:59 PM rue_shop2: :) for my 1 unit production run
09:59 PM rue_shop2: :P
10:01 PM rue_shop2: I"m too tired to break out a peice of protoboard
10:02 PM rue_shop2: but I can sit here and click, so maybe I should etch the power board
10:02 PM rue_shop2: .llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll;
10:03 PM aandrew: you falling asleep on the keyboard?
10:03 PM rue_shop2: cat sayd hello
10:10 PM aandrew: ah
10:11 PM aandrew: I've bought a ton (dozen) of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07X4D7BKF I have written lots of software for the nrf51822 so these are just nice modules. Unfortunately they are 2mm headers not 0.100" but still easy to use
10:14 PM aandrew: they're about $5 or better if you keep an eye on them
10:15 PM aandrew: I like those because all the pins are broken out, there are smaller ones
10:18 PM aandrew: ahh see there we go: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32260100115.html $2 apiee
10:18 PM aandrew: apiece
10:20 PM rue_shop2: I'm trying to stay off microcontroller band wagons
10:21 PM rue_shop2: I'm only moving from avr cause of freaking microchip
10:21 PM rue_shop2: and I decided that arm is gonna be everything
10:21 PM rue_shop2: honestly, its funny that 8051 is a total comeback
10:21 PM rue_shop2: technically I have no excuses not to be using 8051
10:21 PM rue_shop2: I sure the hell cant say its a new fad
10:23 PM aandrew: well these are CM0
10:23 PM aandrew: they just have great little radios on them too
10:23 PM rue_shop2: yep
10:24 PM aandrew: you have every reason to not use 8051
10:24 PM rue_shop2: I really want to make a swarm one day
10:24 PM aandrew: it's not a great chip, it's a terrible architecture and you don't even get street cred for using them :-)
10:24 PM rue_shop2: but 8051 will always be around
10:24 PM aandrew: yes it will be
10:24 PM aandrew: but I bet some of the tiny risc-v variants will give it a run
10:24 PM rue_shop2: arm
10:25 PM aandrew: well ARM is still licensed
10:25 PM rue_shop2: I see arm taking over everything in ~10 years
10:25 PM aandrew: risc-v is free like 8051 is free
10:25 PM aandrew: oh yeah it's doing very well. I'm curious to see what risc-v will do for it
10:25 PM aandrew: to it
10:25 PM rue_shop2: the old VHS/BETAMAX issue
10:26 PM rue_shop2: philips/robertson
10:26 PM aandrew: I think it's more than that
10:26 PM aandrew: CM0 is small, but risc-v is a simpler arch and again, being completely unencumbered will get it into all the same areas that 8051 is in now
10:27 PM rue_shop2: I need a design for folding beds for my printers
10:27 PM rue_shop2: the flat ones gather ... *things*
10:27 PM aandrew: hahaha
10:27 PM rue_shop2: :)
10:27 PM aandrew: yes horizontal surfaces tend to get filled
10:27 PM aandrew: I have the same issue
10:27 PM rue_shop2: my poor bench
10:28 PM rue_shop2: oh god, I'm not going to have an evening tommorow
10:28 PM rue_shop2: after work, I have to work
10:28 PM rue_shop2: damnit, I cant even procrastinate
10:28 PM aandrew: yeah I should be working
10:28 PM rue_shop2: I was doing fire annual at a care home
10:29 PM rue_shop2: I think I saw someone knitting in their sleep
10:29 PM rue_shop2: seriously
10:29 PM aandrew: hahaha
10:29 PM aandrew: muscle memory is a bitch
10:29 PM rue_shop2: ok, I measured the relays and designed a power board
10:29 PM rue_shop2: its 8:20
10:30 PM rue_shop2: I need to hit bed by 9:45
10:30 PM Tom_L: no it's 10:20
10:30 PM rue_shop2: I want to dissassemble 100 pcbs
10:30 PM rue_shop2: lets see
10:30 PM rue_shop2: given 10 mins of procrastination
10:30 PM rue_shop2: and 10 minutes working out how long I have to do them
10:31 PM rue_shop2: assuming that 10 of those minutes the toaster oven is preheating
10:31 PM Tom_L: unless you forgot to plug it in
10:31 PM rue_shop2: then in 60 minutes/ 100 boards
10:31 PM rue_shop2: 36 seconds per board
10:32 PM rue_shop2: I wonder if thats long enough for them to heat up
10:32 PM Tom_L: no
10:32 PM rue_shop2: if I use say, 3 phases
10:32 PM Tom_L: better double them up in the oven
10:32 PM rue_shop2: gives them 90 minutes
10:32 PM rue_shop2: ok, I also need to put supper on
10:33 PM rue_shop2: ok, so If I start the oven, start supper, and go like mad
10:33 PM rue_shop2: maybe I can get to the point
10:33 PM rue_shop2: where I feel I'v done soemthing usefull tonight
10:33 PM Tom_L: you'll just end up burning supper
10:33 PM rue_shop2: no I made a machine
10:33 PM rue_shop2: the burning thing doens't happen anymore
10:34 PM aandrew: no it's 11:25
10:35 PM Tom_L: see he already procrastinated 6 min
10:36 PM rue_shop2: just a sec I"m being distracted
11:05 PM rue_shop1: hmm, its still heating up
11:05 PM Tom_L: dinner or the oven?
11:13 PM rue_shop1: I think the oven lost its lower element
11:13 PM rue_shop1: which would be why I set up the new one