#garfield Logs
Mar 27 2020
#garfield Calendar
03:18 AM rue_mohr: they just keep going
04:11 AM polprog: we should redo forest strawberries today. So far we have spring onions
04:47 AM polprog: s/today/this year/
06:45 AM polprog: rue_bed: your frontend works great when i use an actual phototranny
01:13 PM rue_bed: hah
02:39 PM polprog: damnit
02:40 PM rue_mohr: ?
02:40 PM polprog: it works ok when i shine a torch or a laser into the phototransistor, but for the reflected led light it needs to have 100k on both resistors...
02:40 PM polprog: at least it works
02:40 PM rue_mohr: you want that last resistor as low as you can
02:41 PM rue_mohr: you might have to dial down the led brightness
02:41 PM polprog: dialing down makes it worse in this case..
02:43 PM polprog: fuck
02:43 PM polprog: why is it so difficult
02:50 PM rue_mohr: I'v never had issues with it...
02:55 PM polprog: if not this virus id just go and buy proper, known phototransistors..
02:55 PM polprog: ill try with a clear blue led
02:55 PM polprog: blue photons have higher energy...
03:07 PM rue_mohr: but
03:08 PM Tom_L: how's this quarantine workin for everyone?
03:08 PM Tom_L: big local news story: the interweb is slow
03:17 PM rue_mohr: aside from not workin, pretty normal here
03:17 PM Tom_L: got a list of projects to complete during the time off?
03:24 PM rue_mohr: I'm trying to understand my personal blocks on getting things done
03:27 PM Tom_L: the procrastinaterator has kicked in
03:47 PM rue_mohr: the problem is a lockup issue
03:48 PM rue_mohr: I lock into not being able to decide which thing to do
03:48 PM rue_mohr: I suppose it could otherwise being assesed as being overwhelmed
03:49 PM rue_mohr: "In the face of not being able to do anything specifically, do anything"
03:49 PM rue_mohr: problems unwind as they are randomly decomposed
03:49 PM rue_mohr: much like untangling a rope
03:50 PM rue_mohr: you cant plan out the exact details of untangling a rope
03:50 PM rue_mohr: to some degree I have to hope the fascinations that hit me cover the ground I need, and try to spin things off as fast as I can think them up
03:51 PM rue_mohr: which is an absolutely insane bar to try to jump over
03:51 PM rue_mohr: I'm sure z has some good material on it
03:52 PM rue_mohr: what to do if your stuck with a problem thats way the hell to advanced for you
03:52 PM rue_mohr: advanced? hmmm
03:58 PM Tom_L: decide if it's that important and skip it
04:00 PM rue_mohr: not a totally good plan
04:00 PM rue_mohr: the more you do, the more you learn
04:00 PM rue_mohr: and the more you can do
04:00 PM rue_mohr: ideally, do everything
04:00 PM rue_mohr: its, just a bit of a steep climb
04:01 PM Tom_L: the more you plan to do the less time you have to do any one thing right
04:02 PM rue_mohr: but i need to learn a LOT of things
04:05 PM Tom_L: plan your time wisely then
04:09 PM rue_mohr: I'm having cpu issues, I'm not properly online all the time
04:10 PM rue_mohr: so, any time spans with a clear head best be used to do anything I can
04:10 PM rue_mohr: I'd like to be more organized, but I'm behind
04:10 PM rue_mohr: This is not hard, I just havn't got a freaking clue what I'm doing
04:11 PM rue_mohr: I'm not sure what the error margins are that result in faulure
04:13 PM rue_mohr: yep, need a mind augmentation interface
04:13 PM rue_mohr: rue cmon this isn't hard
04:13 PM Tom_L: how's the new cnc coming?
04:13 PM rue_mohr: there is an apocolypse right now, its a bit distracting
04:14 PM rue_mohr: I'm having two issues
04:14 PM rue_mohr: Z axis, and "x" drive system
04:14 PM rue_mohr: I might have to go with chain for X for now
04:14 PM rue_mohr: I should just do it
04:14 PM rue_mohr: but I'd like to have the Z axis sorted
04:14 PM rue_mohr: the root of my approch might be off
04:15 PM Tom_L: i started with a definite plan
04:15 PM rue_mohr: I'm trying to use the origional holder for the router
04:15 PM rue_mohr: I thnk I need a new clamp for it
04:15 PM Tom_L: followed it with minor changes
04:15 PM rue_mohr: no, the only way I'm gonna get this done to any working level is to just do it
04:16 PM rue_mohr: maybe what I have is better described as panic
04:16 PM rue_mohr: too many things too fast
04:16 PM rue_mohr: and not enough time
04:16 PM rue_mohr: yea, that fits pretty good
04:16 PM rue_mohr: huh, I'm panicing
04:16 PM rue_mohr: ok, knowing that might help
04:17 PM rue_mohr: and I'm tripping out in the process
04:17 PM rue_mohr: thats why the distractions
04:17 PM rue_mohr: ok, but I cant tell what the goal is I'm panicing over
04:17 PM rue_mohr: there isn't enough focus
04:17 PM rue_mohr: its manifesting as multiple goals
04:18 PM rue_mohr: its all the same goal
04:18 PM rue_mohr: survival?
04:18 PM rue_mohr: not sure
04:18 PM rue_mohr: you would tell me wouldn't you
04:18 PM rue_mohr: challanges make you stronger ya know
04:18 PM rue_mohr: focus rue...
04:18 PM rue_mohr: on WHAT!
04:19 PM rue_mohr: ok, ok, your right
04:20 PM rue_mohr: ok, lets just put it all in a pile and say its part of a central goal
04:20 PM rue_mohr: but that we dont know what the goal is
04:20 PM rue_mohr: when all the peices are assembled, the goal is whole
04:20 PM rue_mohr: from the peices we have, and inferring about a few that are missing, what do we know
04:21 PM rue_mohr: its making something, this is all knowledge and tools for making something
04:21 PM rue_mohr: ok
04:21 PM rue_mohr: but what
04:21 PM rue_mohr: maybe that comes later
04:21 PM rue_mohr: so this is the spool up
04:21 PM rue_mohr: the things you do are the things you have always done
04:22 PM rue_mohr: my level of panic at getting things done isn't going away ya know
04:22 PM rue_mohr: so what do you want to work on then?
04:22 PM rue_mohr: I'm just gonna run around looking at everything and panicing its not getting done aren't I?
04:23 PM rue_mohr: yup
04:23 PM rue_mohr: that panics me more
04:23 PM rue_mohr: uh hu
04:24 PM rue_mohr: I cant focus with the pneumatic nail gun going off beside me
04:24 PM rue_mohr: its called the new york welders test
04:24 PM rue_mohr: yea, try to keep a straight bead, I know
04:25 PM rue_mohr: can we spawn an admin process?
04:25 PM rue_mohr: you were never good at doing the admin *and* the work
04:26 PM rue_mohr: no
04:26 PM rue_mohr: I'v been trying, there are lots of todo lists
04:26 PM rue_mohr: their just piles of peices tho
04:26 PM rue_mohr: I tried to structre them
04:26 PM rue_mohr: without a big picture
04:26 PM rue_mohr: which I still dont know
04:26 PM rue_mohr: you said it tho
04:26 PM rue_mohr: "building something big" is not a clear big picture
04:27 PM rue_mohr: why not?
04:27 PM rue_mohr: its not specific enough
04:27 PM rue_mohr: maybe you cant have the specific
04:27 PM rue_mohr: so I have to ride on faith that the puzzle is gonna go togethor if I keep *aimlessly* making peices
04:27 PM rue_mohr: ?
04:28 PM rue_mohr: lego bricks
04:28 PM rue_mohr: it dones't seem verry efficient
04:28 PM rue_mohr: maybe efficiency cant always be a part of the process
04:28 PM rue_mohr: I suppose it comes with practise
04:29 PM rue_mohr: indeed, the prototype is rarely efficiently made
04:29 PM rue_mohr: are you worried that I dont have little ai thing running around yet?
04:29 PM rue_mohr: no
04:29 PM rue_mohr: I feel like I should
04:30 PM rue_mohr: you got the fpga piece, thats fine for now
04:31 PM rue_mohr: so?
04:31 PM rue_mohr: there are other things that need to be done, plant your potatoes
04:31 PM rue_mohr: AAAAAHHHH
04:32 PM rue_mohr: can I sleep instead?
04:32 PM rue_mohr: no lunch?
04:32 PM rue_mohr: *just* finished breakfast
04:32 PM rue_mohr: I think you really freaked veegee
04:32 PM rue_mohr: dunno why
04:33 PM rue_mohr: he doesn't comprehend superexistance
04:33 PM rue_mohr: dunno why
04:33 PM rue_mohr: why not
04:33 PM rue_mohr: take it as general confusion
04:35 PM rue_mohr: in their world, they are born, they live, then they die. thats the plan
04:35 PM rue_mohr: sorry I cant fathom just accepting that
04:36 PM rue_mohr: you might as well suggest they make a fork with 5 prongs, they just cant extend past the norm
06:07 PM polprog: re: projects to complete during time off
06:07 PM polprog: 1) servo
06:07 PM polprog: 2) xerox display
06:08 PM polprog: 3) random circuits (try different resistor ladders on the funky hct14 quantizer)
06:08 PM polprog: lucklily there isnt a 4) now
06:09 PM Tom_L: ok bak
06:10 PM Tom_L: polprog, you should have a fpga one tossed in there somewhere
06:12 PM polprog: ah yes
06:12 PM polprog: thats 4)
06:12 PM polprog: but you know
06:12 PM polprog: 2 new projects spawn while you are working on a thrid one
06:12 PM polprog: third*
06:13 PM polprog: how's the quarantine around yours
06:13 PM polprog: i only go out at night.. the city is nearly empty
06:13 PM Tom_L: stay at home unless necessary
06:13 PM Tom_L: most seem to be following it
06:17 PM polprog: pretty much
06:38 PM rue_mohr: hey! some packages arrived!
06:38 PM rue_mohr: PLA and diodes!
06:40 PM rue_mohr: waiting for 36 other packages
06:40 PM polprog: nice.. i brought some power supply pcbs from the basement, i havent pulled the transistors and diodes from these yet
06:40 PM rue_mohr: aparently I went on an LED spree
06:40 PM polprog: as well as what was left from our previous washing machine. lots of power (IGBT?) transistors on the motor control board
06:41 PM polprog: pulled the graphic LCD as well
06:41 PM polprog: ill have to test the transistors since the washing machine was shot by a surge
06:43 PM rue_mohr: so I have 1000 1N4148
06:43 PM polprog: wow
06:43 PM polprog: i have maybe 10?
06:43 PM rue_mohr: I have a burning to make a rom
06:43 PM polprog: how much did you pay for a 1000?
06:44 PM rue_mohr: $7 cad
06:44 PM rue_mohr: rounding up
06:44 PM polprog: thats suspicious.. id test them
06:44 PM rue_mohr: 1000 pcs? maybe as I go
06:44 PM polprog: idk, pick 10, test
06:45 PM rue_mohr: having a hrad time doing anythng, its like I'm working under a wet blanker
06:45 PM rue_mohr: t
06:45 PM polprog: oh yeah. me too
06:45 PM polprog: at least i did some maths today... that was difficult
06:45 PM rue_mohr: what type?
06:46 PM polprog: new stuff. differential equations.
06:46 PM rue_mohr: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ET-dV5rXsAU8YZs?format=png&name=900x900
06:46 PM rue_mohr: (for me)
06:47 PM polprog: air cooled pwm driver?
06:47 PM rue_mohr: flow meter
06:47 PM rue_mohr: looks a little slow to respond tho
06:48 PM rue_mohr: but I'm seeing if I can get around those two lower transistors
06:48 PM rue_mohr: super high gain
06:48 PM rue_mohr: one is like 900, the other about 1900
06:49 PM rue_mohr: and given the numbers I can see why
06:49 PM polprog: wheres the input on that?
06:51 PM polprog: hfe <= 1200, nice...2n5089
06:52 PM rue_mohr: kinda
06:52 PM Tom_L: be sure to spray down the packages and get rid of the boxes
06:52 PM rue_mohr: nobody uses transistors with that kinda gain, cause they would be really expensive
06:52 PM rue_mohr: people deisgn real circuits around real available parts
06:52 PM rue_mohr: yea, I shucked them carefull
06:52 PM rue_mohr: etc
06:53 PM polprog: yeah thats the max.. the min and max gives you a general hfe idea
06:53 PM rue_mohr: the 5089 I found in the shop has a gain of like 774
06:53 PM rue_mohr: thats crazy for a non-darlington
06:53 PM polprog: i wasl always told (always read) to not use the hfe of a transistor while designing
06:53 PM rue_mohr: yea
06:53 PM rue_mohr: they needed really stupid high
06:54 PM rue_mohr: I redesigned the stage with a TL072
06:54 PM rue_mohr: its a combined "detector" and voltage follower
06:54 PM polprog: the stage of what?
06:54 PM rue_mohr: when F is low, its on, doing voltage following of the 1uF cap
06:55 PM rue_mohr: when F is high, its just off
06:55 PM rue_mohr: and when its on, its applying 0.1mA/V (of the 1uF cap)
06:55 PM rue_mohr: all in all, its a duty-to-current circuit
06:56 PM polprog: ah, that one circuit, ok
06:56 PM rue_mohr: but that switches itself off
06:56 PM rue_mohr: part of my mind is SURE it can be done with a 555
06:56 PM polprog: i still dont know which part measures the actual flow
06:56 PM polprog: or rather HOW
06:56 PM rue_mohr: you put Q1 and Q2 in the airflow
06:57 PM rue_mohr: they use them as tempaerature sensors, accept Q1 is driven enough to warm it up
06:57 PM rue_mohr: so its temp depends on the airflow
06:57 PM polprog: oh, interesting...
06:58 PM polprog: i really want to get that servo working.. ill finally be able to build the water drone
06:58 PM rue_mohr: with a steper or a dc motor?
06:58 PM polprog: its a stepper now but the actuator is not the issue
06:59 PM rue_mohr: it is, the position of the stepper is basically absolute
06:59 PM polprog: the motor worked fine (the jerkiness was due to loose power connection)
06:59 PM rue_mohr: a dc motor keeps turning, even after the power is off
06:59 PM polprog: i wanna be able to count the stripe pulses so im not doing blind steering
07:00 PM rue_mohr: I have to work out how to try to cast this stupid squeezie bulb again
07:00 PM rue_mohr: polprog, ok, so
07:00 PM polprog: that kinda thing is good for an RC boat that you control. this is supposed to be eventually self driving
07:00 PM polprog: self boating*
07:00 PM rue_mohr: you need a working sensor, granted
07:01 PM rue_mohr: do you have "speed control over your motor"
07:01 PM rue_mohr: ?
07:01 PM polprog: yeah
07:01 PM rue_mohr: do you can change a number somwehere and the speed of the motor will change accordingly?
07:01 PM polprog: i have everything but a circuit that will reliably count pulses
07:01 PM rue_mohr: will it reverse if the number goes -?
07:01 PM polprog: i have left-right step function in the code, i could add speed by varying the delay
07:02 PM rue_mohr: yup
07:02 PM polprog: granted, i could add two limit switches on either end and make it self-adjust every boot
07:02 PM rue_mohr: so, you have a control position and a feedback position, if you can get the sensor working nice
07:02 PM rue_mohr: why not use one of the digital sensors?
07:02 PM polprog: but i kinda like the idea of the stripy encoder
07:03 PM polprog: because they are photointerruptors, they dont measure the reflected light. that would work if i had a transparent encoder strip
07:03 PM rue_mohr: so fold the paper
07:03 PM polprog: hmm
07:03 PM rue_mohr: paper is ir transparent
07:04 PM polprog: thats an idea
07:04 PM rue_mohr: it should be anyhow
07:04 PM polprog: ill have to try the 5 pin one then
07:04 PM rue_mohr: did you do your paper and a pdf?
07:04 PM polprog: i think i have it as SVG but im not sure if its on the server
07:04 PM rue_mohr: need something without arbitrary scale
07:05 PM polprog: why
07:05 PM rue_mohr: so I dont have to mess with it
07:05 PM polprog: it's an a4 SVG
07:05 PM polprog: 220 cm of 2- and 10- mm raster
07:06 PM rue_mohr: I wonder if my cad can reliably do thick lines
07:06 PM polprog: hmm, this is a crazy idea: magnetic read head and a strip of VHS tape. They have a control track on one edge
07:06 PM rue_mohr: you used 2mm thick?
07:07 PM polprog: these are made as a series of black rectangles on white background
07:07 PM polprog: if you are not going to laser print it you'll save time just by generating one for your plotter
07:07 PM rue_mohr: my cad program can output a 1:1
07:08 PM polprog: anyway. today i got the known phototransistor setup working, it just needed a very bright led. i cant pump 100mA thru a 3mm led so i gave up on that..
07:09 PM polprog: https://polprog.net/rozne1/ircjunk/cradleservo/2mm5mmgrid_4pcs.svg
07:10 PM polprog: so id just need to increase the gain even more, maybe with a darlington pair
07:10 PM rue_mohr: you should not need a lot of brightness for that circuit
07:10 PM rue_mohr: I have no idea why its giving you issues
07:10 PM polprog: but was that made with transparent or reflective gauge in mind
07:11 PM rue_mohr: mine was used on a line following robot
07:11 PM polprog: so reflective
07:12 PM polprog: i could try printing that on reflective paper rather than plain
07:12 PM polprog: i think i have glossy paper somewhere
07:12 PM polprog: i could experiment with fluorescent paint
07:13 PM polprog: or different leds
07:13 PM polprog: i need to try the farlington
07:13 PM polprog: darlington*
07:14 PM rue_shop1: that came out well
07:14 PM polprog: i also wanna see if i can build this..
07:14 PM rue_shop1: oh I should add fold lines
07:15 PM polprog: maybe i just have shit phototransistors
07:16 PM rue_shop1: yea I dont get it
07:16 PM rue_shop1: for me, its a flawless circuit
07:16 PM rue_shop1: just adjust the one resistor and its good
07:16 PM polprog: it makes sense, and it works when i shine a laser or a led torch at it
07:17 PM polprog: but not that much (at that small gains) in the actual application
07:18 PM polprog: it worked fine with 100K resistors and 100mA thru the led, but that can't pass since both figures are crazy high
07:20 PM rue_shop1: ok
07:20 PM rue_shop1: I have a sensor I'v never used before
07:20 PM rue_shop1: 4 wires
07:20 PM rue_shop1: so I take a 1k resistor and led, try to find the set that only turns the led on in one direction (which will be the emitter)
07:21 PM polprog: what's the led poiting at?
07:21 PM polprog: and you're using that folded, right?
07:23 PM rue_shop1: ok, purple and white wire are the emitter, with purple being the cathode
07:24 PM rue_shop1: ok, hold on
07:24 PM rue_shop1: I should try to set up streaming one day
07:24 PM polprog: i was thinking about streaming but the times i sit at the bench are irregular as hell
07:25 PM rue_shop1: I forgot about the PI I set up for "realtime" posting
07:25 PM rue_shop1: one step at a time
07:26 PM rue_shop1: sorry, this could be done better
07:27 PM polprog: dw, if not your linebot schem id be stuck with that resistor divider + follower crap
07:28 PM rue_shop1: http://ruemohr.org/%7Eircjunk/tutorials/mech/4mm.pdf
07:28 PM rue_shop1: fold lines, please stand by
07:29 PM polprog: ill have to try that tomorrow with the photointerruptors i have the pinout cracked of
07:30 PM rue_mohr: working....
07:30 PM rue_mohr: got the pdf, yes?
07:31 PM polprog: yes
07:32 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1150595.jpg
07:32 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1150596.jpg
07:32 PM rue_mohr: ok I worked out the emitter
07:32 PM rue_mohr: the next step is to work out the detector polarity
07:32 PM rue_mohr: I use the led again, but while driving the emitter
07:32 PM rue_mohr: I look for which way it can drive the led *at all*
07:33 PM rue_mohr: then I test by interrupting it a few times
07:35 PM rue_shop1: ok, the detector wires are black and grey, with the grey being the emitter
07:37 PM polprog: https://polprog.net/rozne1/ircjunk/cradleservo/photoint_pinout.png
07:41 PM rue_shop1: prefer Y than Q, but ok
07:41 PM rue_shop1: the non-logic ones give you gain control
07:42 PM rue_shop1: so I set up that circuit of mine, with a 470k instead of the 22k
07:42 PM rue_shop1: adjusting it now
07:45 PM polprog: i cant sleep so im looking at the pcbs i brough. CR8AM - mitsubishi thyristor...
07:54 PM rue_shop1: iiinteresting
07:54 PM rue_shop1: its happiest with really high gain (470k) and a weak pullup (10k)
07:57 PM polprog: allright
07:58 PM polprog: thanks, ill try some of that tomorrow...
07:58 PM polprog: weak pullup.. hmm
07:58 PM polprog: nighters
07:58 PM Tom_L: bye
08:00 PM rue_shop1: later tom
08:01 PM rue_shop1: polprog, more gian would probably help
08:02 PM rue_shop1: lots of the PNP transistors have better gains in general
08:03 PM rue_shop1: ah, 470R on the emitter helps
08:03 PM rue_shop1: I dont usually have these looking thru paper
08:06 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1150599.jpg
08:06 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1150600.jpg
08:07 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/encoder2.png
08:07 PM rue_mohr: polprog, gnight?
08:08 PM Tom_L: ya i was telling him bye
08:08 PM Tom_L: not me
08:08 PM rue_mohr: yep, he bounces some nights
08:08 PM rue_mohr: oh
08:08 PM rue_mohr: neat encoder trick anyhow
08:10 PM Tom_L: what's it do?
08:16 PM rue_mohr: strip encoder
08:16 PM rue_mohr: er, interrupter anyhow
08:18 PM Tom_L: oh, i remember his video on that
08:19 PM rue_mohr: folding it like that is cool
08:19 PM rue_mohr: doubles up the ink
08:28 PM Tom_L: btw how did those short sharpies work out?
11:00 PM rue_shop1: didn't try yet!
11:00 PM rue_shop1: ok I have a temp warning light that pulls 50uA idle
11:00 PM rue_shop1: how long will a 2Ah battery last?
11:02 PM rue_shop1: 2Ah will run 100mA for 20 hours
11:02 PM rue_shop1: so, 10mA for 200 hours
11:02 PM rue_shop1: 1mA for 2000 hours
11:02 PM rue_shop1: 0.1mA for 20000 hrs
11:02 PM rue_shop1: so 40000 hours
11:03 PM rue_shop1: or 2000 days
11:03 PM rue_shop1: so if I charge the battery back up every year, I'm ok
11:04 PM rue_shop1: 2000 days being 4.5 years
11:04 PM rue_shop1: gee, I could use a 1Ah battery
11:06 PM Tom_L: less any internal battery resistance
11:07 PM Tom_L: assuming you have good batteries