#garfield Logs
Feb 29 2020
#garfield Calendar
12:49 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
01:02 AM rue_mohr: Tom_L,
01:02 AM rue_mohr: ages ago, I had you pick me up some BIC pens I couldn't get locally
03:13 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
03:13 AM Tom_L: you did?
03:14 AM rue_mohr: yea
03:14 AM rue_mohr: I couldn't get them
03:14 AM rue_mohr: and its not become any easier aparently
03:14 AM Tom_L: i remember talk about it but not actually getting some
03:14 AM rue_mohr: again, I cant even find existence of them
03:15 AM rue_mohr: yea, you were able to get them at the corner store or something
03:15 AM rue_mohr: I was annoyed, but not really surprised
03:15 AM Tom_L: what kind?
03:15 AM rue_mohr: anyhow, I need more...
03:15 AM Tom_L: ball point pens?
03:15 AM Tom_L: or sharpies
03:15 AM rue_mohr: their BIC softfeel permanent
03:15 AM rue_mohr: felt tip
03:16 AM rue_mohr: I can send ya a pic, I'd be curious to know if you can still get them
03:16 AM rue_mohr: last time, the local shops had just stopped selling them
03:16 AM rue_mohr: its been over 10 years now
03:16 AM rue_mohr: I have two left
03:16 AM rue_mohr: I think you got me 6 or 8
03:16 AM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/BIC-Soft-Black-Point-12-Count/dp/B000GATVZE
03:17 AM rue_mohr: nope
03:17 AM rue_mohr: its grey
03:17 AM rue_mohr: its not a ball point
03:17 AM rue_mohr: there is no record of them on the internet at all
03:17 AM rue_mohr: not by BIC product code or UPC or name
03:18 AM rue_mohr: there is no mention of them on the BIC website
03:18 AM rue_mohr: but none of that is new
03:18 AM rue_mohr: I got a pcb printed tho
03:18 AM Tom_L: you sure they weren't sharpies?
03:18 AM rue_mohr: I dont have etchant set up
03:18 AM rue_mohr: their bic
03:19 AM rue_mohr: tommorow I'll take you a picsutre
03:19 AM rue_mohr: er, I have this...
03:19 AM Tom_L: cause i think sharpies are felt tip and permanent ink
03:19 AM rue_mohr: its got to be the right weight and size to fit in the plotter
03:19 AM Tom_L: yeah
03:20 AM rue_mohr: and it has to be the right type of ink to resist the etchant
03:20 AM rue_mohr: the sharpies are too heavy
03:20 AM rue_mohr: and big
03:20 AM Tom_L: not all of them are fat
03:20 AM Tom_L: well, i say that but...
03:20 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1150350.jpg
03:20 AM rue_mohr: does that ring a bell?
03:21 AM Tom_L: at 3am nothing rings a bell
03:21 AM rue_mohr: sadly, they go dull before they really run out of ink
03:21 AM rue_mohr: k, I'll take a picture tommroorw
03:21 AM rue_mohr: its 1am, gngiht
03:21 AM Tom_L: they've sorta not stocked things like they used to around here
03:21 AM rue_mohr: yea
03:22 AM Tom_L: but walmart probably still has something
03:22 AM rue_mohr: I might have to bombard BIC with emails
03:22 AM Tom_L: or the office depot
03:22 AM Tom_L: stuff like that it's hard to tell because they change it around
03:23 AM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/Soft-Feel-0-32-942886-Soft-Assorted-Colours/dp/B06VW4H53N
03:24 AM Tom_L: no those are still ball
03:24 AM rue_mohr: those are ball point ...
03:25 AM Tom_L: see BIC is known for their ball point pens but not so much felt tip
03:25 AM Tom_L: maybe they quit making them
03:25 AM rue_mohr: thier website product listings suck
03:25 AM rue_mohr: they didn't ever have them listed
03:25 AM rue_mohr: I had the problem last time too
03:26 AM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/Felt-Marker-Fine-Point-White/dp/B007YCNBMQ
03:27 AM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/Sharpie-Fine-Point-Pens-Black/dp/B01J78IL0G/ref=pd_day0_hl_229_3/134-6921166-4139134?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01J78IL0G&pd_rd_r=50f59d3f-350c-42b2-83b4-15b6df05fa0d&pd_rd_w=JHcnV&pd_rd_wg=ga6Gv&pf_rd_p=531c5da2-92c8-47a3-8df6-cb5fa8f00603&pf_rd_r=NXG5G31AVBZW88X7718K&psc=1&refRID=NXG5G31AVBZW88X7718K
03:28 AM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/Sharpie-37161PP-Permanent-Markers-Resists/dp/B00144862U/ref=pd_bxgy_img_3/134-6921166-4139134?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00144862U&pd_rd_r=fdfe3534-e316-4137-ab26-37916f07822c&pd_rd_w=mB884&pd_rd_wg=NUBPX&pf_rd_p=fd08095f-55ff-4a15-9b49-4a1a719225a9&pf_rd_r=540X2KVDNCAKWZAYC8ZN&psc=1&refRID=540X2KVDNCAKWZAYC8ZN
03:29 AM Tom_L: those are the smaller sharpies
03:29 AM Tom_L: i've used the permanent sharpies to etch before
03:30 AM Tom_L: but one or the other: sodium or ammonium persulphate works with them but not the other
03:30 AM Tom_L: i can't remember which one now
03:31 AM Tom_L: they have ultra fine point with permanent ink
03:32 AM Tom_L: they _might_ fit your holder
03:33 AM Tom_L: i actually have some of those in my drawer
03:38 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/sharpie.jpg
03:38 AM Tom_L: next to a standard bic ball point pen
03:38 AM Tom_L: if you think those would work i'm sure i can get just about any color of those :)
03:41 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/sharpie2.jpg
03:42 AM Tom_L: next to a standard fat sharpie
03:42 AM Tom_L: the sharpies on the left are a little smaller than the pack on the right too
03:43 AM Tom_L: diameter wise they look the same now that i held them side by side
03:46 AM Tom_L: i could measure those later after it's time for normal ppl to get up
03:49 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
04:29 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
05:46 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
06:03 AM polprog: rue_mohr: oh, ok
06:03 AM polprog: thats odd. can it output TIFF?
06:12 AM polprog: what language do these plotters speak? HPGL?
06:19 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
06:49 AM polprog: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCX03bU8TSM
06:49 AM polprog: this is interesting.. fpga based motherboard
07:01 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
07:57 AM Tom_L: hpgl
08:02 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
08:41 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
11:23 AM rue_mohr: polprog, yea, hpgl and tiff are options
11:23 AM rue_mohr: but eps is smaller, so it transfers faster
11:24 AM rue_mohr: Tom_L, their too heavy for the plotter
11:25 AM rue_mohr: and only the black holds up against etchant
11:25 AM rue_mohr: Tom_L, I'v tried every pen available
11:26 AM rue_mohr: the only other one that works is stedtler
11:26 AM rue_mohr: they dont last as long, and are more expensive
11:39 AM polprog: tried oil markers?
11:40 AM polprog: s/oil/paint
11:47 AM rue_mohr: no, but there needs to be a really good layer for anything to work
11:48 AM rue_mohr: I was working on pens that would put down nailpolish
01:30 PM rue_mohr: so that chineese 10A motor driver arrived
01:30 PM rue_mohr: and hmmmm
01:52 PM rue_mohr: so the bride always drives,
01:53 PM rue_mohr: so they dont have flyback diodes
01:53 PM rue_mohr: the gnd of the driver is tied to the logic gnd
01:54 PM rue_mohr: so, cant use low side current sense
02:00 PM rue_mohr: its a great circuit tho
02:00 PM rue_mohr: I worry about braking a PM DC motor on it
02:01 PM rue_mohr: The positives are not split, so I cant run the universal motors with them
02:03 PM rue_mohr: 1/8" traces,
02:03 PM rue_mohr: not all accesible to beef up tho
02:24 PM Tom_L: hmmm
02:40 PM rue_mohr: heh, the etchant was mixed aug 2017
02:43 PM Tom_L: mine turned to rocks so i threw it out
02:45 PM rue_mohr: well there is a bunch of "ice" in the bottom of mine, so, I'm not sure if its ice, or crystal
02:45 PM rue_mohr: wasn't yours fecl?
02:45 PM rue_mohr: http://vpapanik.blogspot.com/2012/11/low-budget-manual-pick-place.html
02:45 PM rue_mohr: heh
04:06 PM Tom_L: i don't remember now
04:32 PM Tom_L: oh.. no
04:32 PM Tom_L: i had sodium and ammonium persulphate but i don't remember which one worked better with pens
04:33 PM Tom_L: i had fecl3 too but didn't use it after i got the other 2
04:38 PM polprog: heh, rue, youre fmaous: https://forbot.pl/forum/topic/8138-serwo-a-generowanie-zaklocen/?do=findComment&comment=84095
06:12 PM polprog: maybe i should try etching tomorrow....
06:12 PM polprog: https://polprog.net/rozne1/ircjunk/5nanos/board-try1.png
06:13 PM polprog: nite
06:13 PM rue_mohr: ?
06:14 PM rue_mohr: i am?
06:14 PM rue_mohr: heh
06:15 PM rue_mohr: :)
06:21 PM polprog: :)
06:21 PM polprog: what do you think about that board?
06:22 PM polprog: maybe eagle isnt utter shit after all
06:22 PM polprog: it logged me out though...
06:46 PM polprog: i guess ill redraw it tomorrow
07:34 PM rue_mohr: "logged you out?"
07:35 PM rue_mohr: you cant just download the program and save it to a file?
07:36 PM rue_mohr: its good to use fatter power traces, less high freq impedence
07:36 PM rue_mohr: I usually doa ground line all the way around the outside of my boards
07:41 PM X704 is now known as tiwake
08:22 PM Tom_L: rue_mohr, i think eagle is on the cloud now that autodesk owns it
08:22 PM Tom_L: it's bundled with fusion 360 now
08:28 PM rue_mohr: ouch
08:28 PM rue_mohr: so a session times out and you lose all your work
08:28 PM rue_mohr: OR they upgrade the software and all your online stored work is obsolete
08:28 PM rue_mohr: aka, trashed, gone
08:29 PM rue_mohr: ok, on my list for this weekend
08:29 PM rue_mohr: - mtoor driver (hey I got the board etched!)
08:29 PM rue_mohr: - charge smoking progress (small bot) <-- done!
08:29 PM rue_mohr: - editor (it'll never be done)
08:29 PM rue_mohr: - fpga encoder
08:30 PM rue_mohr: in about 2 hours I need to go help a buddy rewire a light switch..
08:31 PM Tom_L: that's why i keep 4.16
08:32 PM Tom_L: so one night i'm up you're gone
08:32 PM Tom_L: :(
08:34 PM rue_mohr: I'm here
08:35 PM rue_mohr: oh the light switch should only take a half hour or so
08:36 PM Tom_L: you think those small sharpies are too big?
08:36 PM Tom_L: i could mic one
08:36 PM rue_mohr: yup
08:39 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/cnc6/slide.htm
08:39 PM rue_mohr: some updates after P1150075
08:39 PM Tom_L: ah hah
08:39 PM Tom_L: https://www.walmart.com/ip/BIC-Intensity-Fineliner-Felt-Pen-Fine-Point-0-4-mm-Assorted-Colors-6-Count/131009187
08:40 PM rue_mohr: usually, if the black comes ina multi-colour pack, it cant stand up to the etchant
08:40 PM Tom_L: well but i'm getting closer
08:43 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1150370.jpg
08:43 PM rue_mohr: specifically only those pens
08:43 PM rue_mohr: otherwise I might as well use the stedtler
08:43 PM rue_mohr: but those ones are AWESOME
08:43 PM Tom_L: i sent you those?
08:43 PM rue_mohr: yup
08:43 PM Tom_L: gawd i'm loosin it
08:43 PM rue_mohr: a bunch as I recall
08:44 PM rue_mohr: pretty sure ya did
08:44 PM rue_mohr: the pen I'm using now was started in 2010
08:44 PM rue_mohr: the copyright on the package is 1998
08:50 PM Tom_L: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fs7d6.scene7.com%2Fis%2Fimage%2Fbjs%2F226490__alt19%3F%24bjs-Zoom%24&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bjs.com%2Fproduct%2Fbic-intensity-fineliner-combo-pack-mediumfine-tips-assorted-colors-32-ct%2F3000000000001769257&tbnid=S5NvzcZl-GEbWM&vet=12ahUKEwicm4HPn_jnAhVQS60KHbXqAksQMyhUegUIARDKAQ..i&docid=Q3rpbrXdeqJkaM&w=1100&h=1100&q=BIC%20felt%20soft%20feel%20bold&client=firefox-b-1-d&ved=2ahUKEwicm4HPn_
08:50 PM Tom_L: jnAhVQS60KHbXqAksQMyhUegUIARDKAQ#h=1100&imgdii=2tRuTX9r2AsS-M:&vet=12ahUKEwicm4HPn_jnAhVQS60KHbXqAksQMyhUegUIARDKAQ..i&w=1100
08:51 PM Tom_L: https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/bic-intensity-black-medium-fine-liner/6000197328020
08:52 PM Tom_L: see if you can find those in ca
08:53 PM Tom_L: nevermind. it's water based ink
08:57 PM Tom_L: watching the slide show, those _do_ lay down some good ink
09:26 PM X704 is now known as tiwake
10:44 PM X704 is now known as tiwake
11:25 PM rue_mohr: yea I think I tried those and it washed away fast
11:25 PM rue_mohr: there is a particular type of ink, its available bulk in germany, but they wont ship it cause it doesn't store well
11:26 PM rue_mohr: but the hint is that on the steadtler pens, they say "refillable"