#garfield Logs
Dec 23 2019
#garfield Calendar
05:00 AM Tom_L: rue_mohr, possibly
05:05 AM Tom_L: they are weak at best though
05:12 AM Tom_L: the FPGA uses a different pin floorplan program than the CPLD and i'm not as familiar with it. it has alot more options for the pins
07:25 AM Tom_L: it may have been set for 2.5v
07:30 AM Tom_L: i posted a new first.bit file if you want to try it
02:38 PM Tom_L: the guy said mine shipped last week. i guess we'll see
02:38 PM Tom_L: no tracking yet
07:18 PM rue_mohr: *fuck*
07:18 PM rue_mohr: they changed me $2000 for the truck repair
07:18 PM Tom_L: dealers
07:19 PM Tom_L: that's insane for that job
07:19 PM Tom_L: even half that is overcharging
07:19 PM rue_mohr: the cover is rubbing, and its got about 1/2 the power it should
07:19 PM Tom_L: they gotta pay for all 16 stalls
07:19 PM rue_mohr: they say they changed the cam
07:19 PM Tom_L: they did it wrong
07:20 PM rue_mohr: dunno, are the parts right? I dunno
07:20 PM Tom_L: did you see the old cam?
07:20 PM Tom_L: right parts don't rub
07:20 PM Tom_L: no power is another indicator
07:20 PM Tom_L: i bet they timed it wrong
07:20 PM Tom_L: stupid dealers
07:22 PM rue_mohr: yea, I'm not sure where to go from here
07:22 PM rue_mohr: if they changed my cam out with the wrong one I have a problem
07:22 PM Tom_L: i'd want to see the parts and know why it has no power now
07:22 PM rue_mohr: yea, I want to hide under a rock
07:22 PM Tom_L: ask for the part numbers of the parts they replaced
07:23 PM rue_mohr: I should see if they did my request and left the old parts int eh box in the back
07:23 PM rue_mohr: I just n
07:23 PM rue_mohr: need to sit
07:23 PM rue_mohr: like, damnit
07:23 PM rue_mohr: I shouldve used one of the independent shops
07:23 PM Tom_L: i never go to dealers
07:24 PM rue_mohr: I was told by people I trusted that their work wasn't bad
07:24 PM Tom_L: i'd go talk to the service manager for sure
07:24 PM Tom_L: tell him you're not happy with the job
07:24 PM rue_mohr: about what? they expected 3 hours, they took 12
07:24 PM Tom_L: not your problem
07:24 PM Tom_L: but you paid them already
07:24 PM rue_mohr: yea, if it was *just* the gear rubbing, I'd not care much
07:24 PM Tom_L: cause you have the truck
07:24 PM Tom_L: i would care
07:25 PM Tom_L: it will cause metal flakes to pump thru the oil system
07:25 PM Tom_L: and fuck the whole thing up
07:25 PM rue_mohr: not sure that timing gear is lubricated like that
07:25 PM rue_mohr: but I dont know
07:25 PM rue_mohr: I asked that
07:25 PM Tom_L: sure it is
07:25 PM rue_mohr: *sigh*
07:25 PM rue_mohr: damnit
07:25 PM rue_mohr: they must have substituted parts
07:25 PM Tom_L: i would complain to the service manager
07:26 PM rue_mohr: otherwise the gears would fit
07:26 PM Tom_L: then go to a regional manager over the shop
07:26 PM rue_mohr: yea, I cant *now*
07:26 PM rue_mohr: but, *damnit*
07:26 PM rue_mohr: I dont need the repair to be a freaking project
07:26 PM Tom_L: loss of power less than what you had means they did a poor job and wrong parts
07:26 PM rue_mohr: I just needed the gears changed
07:27 PM Tom_L: you could have paid me that and i would have flown up and done it
07:27 PM rue_mohr: yea
07:27 PM rue_mohr: I want to work on the editor now
07:27 PM Tom_L: mkay
07:27 PM Tom_L: i did post a fix .bit file this morning
07:28 PM Tom_L: the whole truck isn't worth 2k
07:29 PM Tom_L: they know they got you over the barrel
07:34 PM Tom_L: man i feel bad now
07:38 PM rue_mohr: so I called and left 2 messages and when I talk to them I'm gonna point out that I need the old parts back cause I'm gonna hve to redo this repair myself and need the old parts as a ref
07:38 PM rue_mohr: }:|
07:39 PM rue_mohr: Tom_L, its ok if I ammortize it
07:39 PM rue_mohr: I budget $1200 a year on maintenance
07:39 PM rue_mohr: thats the same as I pay for insurance
07:40 PM rue_mohr: I'll look at it more later
07:40 PM rue_mohr: I dont like the idea of anything rubbing like that
07:40 PM rue_mohr: exactly what you said, chaff in the oil
07:40 PM rue_mohr: they said they couldn't find a deeper cover
07:40 PM rue_mohr: cause there wont be one in existance
07:40 PM Tom_L: nothing should rub... period
07:40 PM rue_mohr: cause I beleive those gears were not made for that engine
07:41 PM rue_mohr: I dont even know if the cam is made for that engine
07:41 PM Tom_L: they shouldn't need a deeper cover
07:41 PM rue_mohr: they didn't put a camshaft on the list
07:41 PM rue_mohr: I"ll look at it carefully tommoorow and see if I can work out what they did
07:41 PM Tom_L: maybe they fucked it up getting the gear off and don't wanna admit it
07:41 PM rue_mohr: if they rec-nnected the EGR, taht will account the power loss
07:42 PM rue_mohr: I saw the gears, there was a fight to get them off
07:42 PM rue_mohr: their pressed on
07:42 PM Tom_L: that sucks
07:42 PM rue_mohr: he'd taken a pretty good damn chumk out of the hub of one of them
07:42 PM rue_mohr: ( :( I dont want to have this on my mind )
07:43 PM Tom_L: was it firing right when you drove it home?
07:43 PM Tom_L: just no power
07:43 PM Tom_L: the cam may be retarded
07:43 PM rue_mohr: yes, smooth, just not enough there
07:44 PM rue_mohr: I wonder if the mechanic could be so dwitt to not get the notches right
07:44 PM rue_mohr: I'll see what they were messing with tommoorow
07:44 PM Tom_L: is the gear pinned to the end of the cam?
07:44 PM Tom_L: it should be
07:44 PM Tom_L: some way to reference it
07:47 PM Tom_L: i got the books on it if you need something
07:48 PM rue_mohr: I'll see later
07:48 PM Tom_L: yeah
07:51 PM Tom_L: i did at least get schematics etc for my board
08:32 PM Tom_L: got some good examples
08:33 PM Tom_L: ps2 kbd, uart tx rx, vga
08:35 PM Tom_L: button debounce, 7 seg
08:37 PM rue_mohr: the timing gears control the ignition on that truck, they would have to have the distributor way out of wack to compensate
08:37 PM rue_mohr: I might have photos of the distributor when i cahnged the pickup coil
08:37 PM Tom_L: got a timing light?
08:38 PM rue_mohr: no
08:38 PM rue_mohr: but I got lots of bright leds
08:38 PM Tom_L: :(
08:38 PM Tom_L: you could borrow mine
08:38 PM rue_mohr: well hey
08:38 PM rue_mohr: wait
08:38 PM rue_mohr: waaait a sec
08:38 PM rue_mohr: maybe I do
08:38 PM rue_mohr: iirc there was a kit I got from a garage sale I'd forgotten about that had a vacuum guage and light
08:38 PM rue_mohr: I'll check tommorow
08:39 PM rue_mohr: I want to eagle eye the truck and see wtf they did
08:39 PM rue_mohr: might pull that cover and see whats up
08:39 PM rue_mohr: your the 2nd person who mentioned it could be off by a tooth
08:40 PM Tom_L: you may not notice it though if they didn't use the right parts
08:40 PM Tom_L: if they used the right parts, it wouldn't be rubbing!!!
08:40 PM rue_mohr: and I dont think they got the wrong gears, I suspect they aren't installed right
08:40 PM Tom_L: what engine is it?
08:40 PM rue_mohr: I'll see :(
08:40 PM rue_mohr: A (2.5L)
08:41 PM Tom_L: i can look it up if need be
08:41 PM Tom_L: i'm sure i have a book on it
08:41 PM Tom_L: i got all of them
08:41 PM rue_mohr: the truck is almost *bang* on its milage for a 3rd set of gears
08:41 PM Tom_L: did you get it used?
08:41 PM rue_mohr: when I got it I suspected they had already been changed, I think I was right
08:42 PM rue_mohr: yea
08:42 PM rue_mohr: really used
08:42 PM rue_mohr: but in good shape
08:42 PM Tom_L: mine had a couple bumps n bruises but it ran good
08:42 PM Tom_L: v6
08:42 PM Tom_L: i don't even remember what size now
08:43 PM rue_mohr: remember the engine code ? :)
08:44 PM rue_mohr: you said it every time you walked into the auto store for a part
08:44 PM Tom_L: no not off hand
08:46 PM Tom_L: i might have written it in one of the books but i don't remember doing that
08:48 PM rue_mohr: you need an oil fitler, what engine is it?
08:48 PM rue_mohr: "vin?"
08:48 PM rue_mohr: and I just say "A"
08:49 PM Tom_L: it's been too long :(
08:49 PM rue_mohr: heh
08:50 PM Tom_L: when your truck finally dies, i'll probably ditch the books
08:51 PM rue_mohr: nobody is making a small electric truck
08:51 PM rue_mohr: nobody even makes trucks that small anymore
09:03 PM Tom_L: makes me sad
09:10 PM Tom_L: haha my 7 seg is fancier than theirs
09:11 PM Tom_L: but it's good to see different code
09:11 PM Tom_L: it's all verilog though
09:14 PM rue_mohr: :)
09:14 PM Tom_L: see if you know what this means:
09:14 PM rue_mohr: I really want to pull that cover and see if they missed the alignment
09:15 PM Tom_itx: N = 26'h2625A0
09:15 PM Tom_L: is the ' a decimal point?
09:15 PM rue_mohr: no
09:15 PM Tom_L: or a 26bit hex value
09:15 PM rue_mohr: h is for hex
09:16 PM rue_mohr: 26 bits set to 0x2625A0 ?
09:16 PM Tom_itx: count = 26'h000000;
09:16 PM Tom_L: i dunno
09:16 PM rue_mohr: just slipped and cut my thumb
09:16 PM Tom_L: you better call it a day
09:16 PM rue_mohr: it'll survive, wish I could have just slept the day out
09:17 PM Tom_itx: LVCMOS33
09:17 PM Tom_L: low voltage cmos 3.3v?
09:18 PM Tom_L: it's one of those pin parameters i'm not sure of yet
09:23 PM Tom_L: one of the guys at my kids work (cnc machine shop) pushed the wrong button and the tool changer went in, crashed and broke the frame on the cnc
09:23 PM rue_mohr: https://www.s10forum.com/threads/on-truck-replacement-of-iron-duke-timing-gear-possible.368397/
09:23 PM Tom_L: it's a $2-3mil machine
09:24 PM Tom_L: and a $15k plus probe
09:24 PM rue_mohr: uh ho
09:24 PM rue_mohr: are they covered?
09:24 PM Tom_L: he's gettin canned
09:24 PM Tom_L: i don't know
09:24 PM rue_mohr: ouch
09:24 PM Tom_L: but they're more than pissed
09:25 PM rue_mohr: broke the frame!?!
09:25 PM Tom_L: yes
09:25 PM rue_mohr: should it even be able to?
09:25 PM Tom_L: it's a tool change that goes inside to fetch a tool
09:26 PM Tom_L: he said it split it right down the middle
09:26 PM rue_mohr: how the hell did they screw this up
09:26 PM rue_mohr: I'm gonna have to pull the whole front of the truc k apart
09:26 PM Tom_L: lack of experience
09:26 PM Tom_L: yeah you picked a fine time for it ehh?
09:26 PM rue_mohr: I should atleast make them provide me a freaking may in their shop for as long as it takes me to sort out
09:26 PM rue_mohr: bay
09:27 PM Tom_L: they'll just laugh at you
09:27 PM Tom_L: insurance etc
09:27 PM Tom_L: will be the excuse
09:27 PM rue_mohr: I'd expect so
09:27 PM rue_mohr: but I dont think they are gonna wannan fix this properly for free
09:27 PM Tom_L: i would tell them they didn't fix it and for $2k they damn well better
09:28 PM rue_mohr: I have some leverage to try yet
09:28 PM Tom_L: i'd be inclined to get a lawyer
09:29 PM rue_mohr: "A check with local mechanics indicated anywhere from $500 to $800 to replace the timing gear."
09:29 PM rue_mohr: http://www.pontiacperformance.net/TechArticles/OSG/timing-gear.html
09:30 PM Tom_L: they didn't need to replace the cam unless they fucked it up
09:30 PM Tom_L: simple as that
09:30 PM rue_mohr: not sure if they did
09:30 PM rue_mohr: I looked again and its not an item on the parts list
09:30 PM Tom_L: to pull the cam they pull the rockers etc
09:31 PM rue_mohr: yea, and I'd have given it new lifters
09:31 PM rue_mohr: their plugged
09:31 PM Tom_L: When I replace my timing gears (it is a matter of when not if), I will use the Cloyes set of metal helical-cut gears.
09:32 PM Tom_L: from your link
09:32 PM rue_mohr: yea
09:32 PM Tom_L: metal gears
09:32 PM rue_mohr: I cant see ANOTHER 100k on that truck before I go to electric
09:32 PM rue_mohr: that or the frame will be rusted thru
09:35 PM Tom_L: i want to say mine was a 2.5ltr but i'm not positive
09:36 PM Tom_L: V6 for sure
09:37 PM Tom_L: changed oil every 3k religiously
09:37 PM rue_mohr: I been short cycling the engine to try to clean it
09:38 PM Tom_L: you've forced me to dig out my box o books
09:42 PM rue_mohr: hey Tom_L
09:43 PM rue_mohr: would retarted timing prevent the engine from knocking if it normally would?
09:43 PM Tom_L: should be a dot on each gear
09:43 PM rue_mohr: I know
09:43 PM Tom_L: sure
09:43 PM rue_mohr: but when I floored it up the hill, no knocking
09:43 PM Tom_L: knock is caused by pre'detination
09:43 PM rue_mohr: it would usually knock a bit
09:43 PM rue_mohr: no power either
09:43 PM Tom_L: it could be retarded
09:44 PM rue_mohr: yea, that would be the other pointer to that
09:44 PM Tom_L: get a light and check it
09:44 PM Tom_L: first
09:44 PM rue_mohr: I think you disconnect the computer first
09:44 PM rue_mohr: but I'm not usre where
09:44 PM Tom_L: this covers r&r the gears
09:44 PM Tom_L: use a press to press the cam out of the gear
09:44 PM rue_mohr: yup
09:45 PM rue_mohr: the crank should come right off
09:45 PM rue_mohr: by hand
09:45 PM Tom_L: proper clearance is .0015 - .0050
09:45 PM rue_mohr: ... to?
09:45 PM rue_mohr: from?
09:45 PM Tom_L: thrust plate to cam
09:45 PM rue_mohr: ah
09:45 PM rue_mohr: k
09:45 PM Tom_L: cam end play
09:45 PM rue_mohr: I wonder if I can hand pull it forward and measure that
09:46 PM rue_mohr: oh, I can use the dial
09:46 PM Tom_L: probably
09:46 PM rue_mohr: and pull/push it
09:46 PM rue_mohr: the cover is L in nature from what I can tell, cause its the upper part of the engine pan
09:47 PM rue_mohr: which means I cant just shim it out for now
09:47 PM Tom_L: kindof an S on the bottom
09:47 PM Tom_L: that seals against the pan
09:47 PM Tom_L: want pics?
09:48 PM rue_mohr: sure!
09:49 PM Tom_L: i'll leave them full size
09:49 PM Tom_L: well maybe not
09:52 PM Tom_L: 4m too big?
09:53 PM Tom_L: 780k
09:54 PM rue_mohr: iirc the images from my camera are usually about 1.2M and the compression is poor
09:54 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/S10_pics/Timing_gear1.jpg
09:54 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/S10_pics/Timing_gear2.jpg
09:56 PM Tom_L: the thrust plate keeps the cam in place with 2 bolts
09:56 PM rue_mohr: yup
09:56 PM rue_mohr: so if I had to I could pop them out, move it over a tooth and set it back
09:56 PM rue_mohr: what SUCKS
09:56 PM rue_mohr: is that I dont want to drive it at all if they are rubbing like this
09:56 PM Tom_L: unless it's got a woodruff key
09:57 PM rue_mohr: I can hear it, couldn't when I listened before I left
09:57 PM Tom_L: i'd take it back and make them fix it and if they try to charge you again tell them you got a fuckin good lawyer
09:57 PM rue_mohr: yea, and there again
09:57 PM rue_mohr: I didn't want tohis to be a project
09:57 PM rue_mohr: thats why I paid to have someone sele do it
09:58 PM rue_mohr: :(((
09:58 PM Tom_L: they did not do their job right. period
09:58 PM rue_mohr: no
09:58 PM rue_mohr: no its all messed up
09:58 PM Tom_L: and they overcharged for their fuckups
09:58 PM Tom_L: it's plain to see
09:58 PM rue_mohr: and their closed for holidays so I cant deal with it
09:58 PM rue_mohr: not right now
09:59 PM Tom_L: for all you know they didn't press the gear on far enough
09:59 PM rue_mohr: and they said they were keeping it on the estimte
09:59 PM rue_mohr: which was $700
09:59 PM rue_mohr: which is on par
09:59 PM Tom_L: off all people, they knew the procedure
10:00 PM Tom_L: of*
10:00 PM rue_mohr: I wonder if the truck predates their mechanics
10:00 PM Tom_L: of course
10:00 PM Tom_L: are they literate?
10:00 PM rue_mohr: I'm hurting, we will see
10:00 PM Tom_L: even i can read what it says
10:00 PM rue_mohr: I might be ael to get thru to them tommorow
10:01 PM rue_mohr: I dont know
10:01 PM Tom_L: i have in the past heated gears to install them but they say to press it on
10:02 PM Tom_L: well like i say, i've got _all_ the books if you need something else
10:03 PM Tom_L: in an average equipped shop that job is in and out in a day easy
10:11 PM Tom_L: the gearset is $43.99
10:11 PM Tom_itx: https://www.autozone.com/internal-engine/timing-set
10:14 PM Tom_L: and a handfull of gaskets, antifreeze and an oil change
10:19 PM rue_mohr: $60 here
10:20 PM rue_mohr: they put a part ref on here
10:20 PM rue_mohr: should be a napa number
10:20 PM rue_mohr: 2542S
10:32 PM Tom_L: wrong one
10:33 PM rue_mohr: 8-| you sure?
10:35 PM Tom_L: https://www.napaonline.com/en/search?q=Nty%3D1%26N%3D2500010%2B2601002%2B2801076%2B10199200%2B5001400%2B200140480%26Score%3D0.68&referer=plp&partTypeName=Timing%20Gear%20-%20Matched%20Set&keywordInput=timing%20gears&scene=partTypesScene1&fullyQualified=true&isBackButtonEnabled=true
10:35 PM Tom_L: that may be for the v6 hang on
10:36 PM rue_mohr: yea, there is metal vs fiber too
10:36 PM Tom_L: 82542S
10:36 PM Tom_L: https://www.napaonline.com/en/search?input-q=2.5+L+151+CID+L4&q=N%3D2500010%2B2601002%2B2801076%2B10199200%2B5001200%2B5001400%2B200140480%2B401400800%2B599999900%26Nty%3D1%26Score%3D0.68&text=timing%2Bgears&keywordInput=timing+gears&referer=nol-veh-conds
10:37 PM Tom_L: looks like metal to me
10:37 PM rue_mohr: these were fiber
10:37 PM Tom_L: $50
10:37 PM Tom_L: https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NTP82542S?partTypeName=Timing+Gear+-+Matched+Set&keywordInput=timing+gears
10:38 PM Tom_L: it's fiber
10:38 PM Tom_L: the description says so
10:39 PM rue_mohr: they missed the 8
10:39 PM Tom_L: so they used napa parts, not original GM
10:39 PM rue_mohr: yea
10:39 PM rue_mohr: they told me they would
10:39 PM Tom_L: oh
10:40 PM rue_mohr: the original gm parts were insanely expensive
10:40 PM Tom_L: like their labor?
10:41 PM rue_mohr: they put 12 hours into it
10:41 PM Tom_L: they wasted 8 of those
10:41 PM rue_mohr: agreed
10:42 PM rue_mohr: probably about 2 hrs trying to work out why the timing wasn't working
10:42 PM Tom_L: just because they were stupid
10:42 PM rue_mohr: er, ignition
10:42 PM rue_mohr: they wanted to change the ignition module
10:42 PM rue_mohr: I said "before that, ask the mechanic if the distributor is turning"
10:42 PM rue_mohr: they called back and said "er, communication error"
10:43 PM rue_mohr: "you need new timing gears"
10:43 PM Tom_L: that's another thing i hate about dealers. they always got somebody else calling you. not the mechanic
10:43 PM rue_mohr: yea I'm not fan of this
10:44 PM Tom_L: i'd check the timing with a light and see where it's at
10:44 PM Tom_L: i put the book up or i'd tell you what it's supposed to be
10:44 PM Tom_L: ~8deg btc probably
10:44 PM Tom_L: or thereabouts
10:45 PM Tom_L: some use a vacuum advance so it may be a bit different
10:45 PM rue_mohr: yea, you have to disconnect the feedback system to get the base timing right
10:45 PM Tom_L: i bet they didn't even check it after they got the new gears on
10:45 PM rue_mohr: then the computer deals with it
10:46 PM rue_mohr: they kept it for an extra day JUST to do that
10:46 PM rue_mohr: they must have just trimmed the part number
10:47 PM Tom_L: probably
10:47 PM rue_mohr: cause the only 2542S is the 82542S
10:47 PM rue_mohr: so, is the napa lookup wrong?
10:47 PM Tom_L: i wouldn't think so
10:47 PM rue_mohr: I need the old parts and measure and stuff
10:47 PM rue_mohr: arg
10:48 PM rue_mohr: and I dont want to drive around to do all this
10:48 PM rue_mohr: not with that rubbing
10:48 PM rue_mohr: I suspect the cam gear isn't on properly
10:48 PM rue_mohr: but why
10:49 PM rue_mohr: I'm worried they damaged the cam when they took the gear off
10:49 PM Tom_L: 54teeth / 27 teeth
10:50 PM rue_mohr: diagram or napa image?
10:50 PM Tom_L: https://www.oreillyauto.com/search/1992/chevrolet/s10?q=camshaft+gear+set
10:50 PM rue_mohr: oh it cant be wrong there or it wouldnt fit at all
10:51 PM Tom_L: that gear has a flat for a woodruff key
10:51 PM Tom_L: so unless they installed it backwards it can't be on wrong
10:52 PM rue_mohr: but the origional had a metal hub
10:52 PM Tom_L: i don't know if the gear is symetrical
10:52 PM rue_mohr: that odd
10:52 PM Tom_L: yeah that's a cheap gearset
10:52 PM Tom_L: just looked for comparison
10:52 PM rue_mohr: k
10:53 PM Tom_L: rock auto didn't have them
10:53 PM Tom_L: (online auto parts)
10:54 PM Tom_L: i usually shop there because they're cheaper than the local stores
10:55 PM Tom_L: awake at 3 so gnite
10:55 PM rue_mohr: ok, so fromt eh best of our ability to tell, the part number is right
10:55 PM Tom_L: yes
10:55 PM rue_mohr: I wonder if they were handed those parts
10:55 PM rue_mohr: or the 1992 parts
10:56 PM rue_mohr: (which are diffreent)
10:56 PM Tom_L: what year is it?
10:56 PM rue_mohr: 1991
10:56 PM Tom_L: i looked up 92 cause i didn't know
10:56 PM Tom_L: that's what mine was
10:56 PM rue_mohr: for 1992, they put a retainer bolt on to make them easier to change when they blew up
10:56 PM rue_mohr: but
10:56 PM rue_mohr: my lookups got to the same part numbers...
10:57 PM Tom_L: 82542
10:58 PM Tom_L: wait
10:58 PM Tom_L: yeah that's the cam gear
10:59 PM rue_mohr: I'm seeing (8)2542
10:59 PM Tom_L: NTP 82542
10:59 PM rue_mohr: it looks like there is no *just* 2542
10:59 PM Tom_L: but for the 91 they don't show it as a set
10:59 PM rue_mohr: postfix S
11:00 PM Tom_L: NTP 82537
11:00 PM Tom_L: is the crank gear
11:00 PM rue_mohr: the crank gear didn't need to be changed, but I wont hold it against them for matter of matched set and "wtf will I find when I get there"
11:00 PM Tom_L: you need to change them as a matched set
11:01 PM Tom_L: due to wear
11:01 PM rue_mohr: I'll accept that
11:01 PM Tom_L: even so, the crank pulleys and harmonic balancer come off anyway
11:01 PM rue_mohr: ditto series lead-acid batteries
11:01 PM Tom_L: in order to get the cover off
11:01 PM rue_mohr: ouch
11:01 PM rue_mohr: ouch, its not a half
11:02 PM rue_mohr: right
11:02 PM rue_mohr: cause the seal
11:02 PM rue_mohr: damnit
11:02 PM rue_mohr: I cant pop it off and take a look
11:02 PM rue_mohr: crap
11:02 PM rue_mohr: which means you cant get a deeper gear cover
11:02 PM Tom_L: it seals on the pulley not the shaft
11:02 PM Tom_L: probably
11:02 PM rue_mohr: there is a seal on the gear cover
11:02 PM Tom_L: no probably not because one part should fit
11:02 PM Tom_L: right
11:03 PM Tom_L: front crankshaft seal
11:03 PM rue_mohr: damn
11:03 PM rue_mohr: so
11:03 PM rue_mohr: to change the cam gear
11:03 PM Tom_L: radiator, waterpump, crank pulley, harmonic balancer, timing gear cover
11:03 PM rue_mohr: you need to undo the front of the truck (grill, rad, guard, waterpump,
11:04 PM rue_mohr: the cover,
11:04 PM rue_mohr: pull the intake cover and the hydraulic lifters
11:04 PM Tom_L: fan
11:04 PM rue_mohr: out with the distributor
11:04 PM rue_mohr: fan/waterpump)
11:04 PM Tom_L: if you pull the cam, right
11:04 PM Tom_L: and that's what the book suggests
11:05 PM rue_mohr: yea, you have to pull the cam on that to press off the gear
11:05 PM rue_mohr: on/off
11:05 PM Tom_L: you can see if they pulled the valve cover
11:05 PM rue_mohr: I wonder if you had a plumbers iceblocker, if you could thermally diff it off
11:05 PM rue_mohr: they said they didn't pull the valve cover
11:06 PM rue_mohr: cause I said if you do, put this new seal I got in for me
11:06 PM Tom_L: they didn't pull the cam then
11:06 PM rue_mohr: right
11:06 PM Tom_L: they didn't get the gear on far enough then
11:06 PM Tom_L: check the endplay
11:06 PM rue_mohr: ok, I'll look tommorow
11:06 PM rue_mohr: hence why it'll be rubbing
11:06 PM Tom_L: but to do that you gotta pull the cover
11:06 PM rue_mohr: but I cant take enugh of the truck apart to check that tommoorw
11:07 PM rue_mohr: its winter, in canada
11:07 PM Tom_L: are you gonna take it back to them or eat it?
11:07 PM rue_mohr: I'm gonna try to make them eat it
11:07 PM Tom_L: then don't mess with it
11:07 PM rue_mohr: its just sorta a bad time of year to be doing it
11:07 PM Tom_L: or they will say you messed it up
11:07 PM rue_mohr: I know
11:07 PM Tom_L: but at least you know what should have been done
11:08 PM Tom_L: by all rights they were supposed to pull the cam
11:08 PM Tom_L: they could have damaged just about anything by not pulling it
11:08 PM Tom_L: probably not but could have
11:09 PM Tom_L: the GM procedure calls for that. they are a certified GM dealership
11:09 PM Tom_L: stuff that in their face
11:10 PM Tom_L: and don't let billy bob nick the cam bearings if they pull it apart again either
11:11 PM Tom_L: certainly for $2k they should by all means done that entire procedure
11:12 PM Tom_L: ask them how much endplay they had in the camshaft when they put the gear back on
11:12 PM Tom_L: i bet they can't tell you
11:12 PM Tom_L: they didn't get the gear on all the way
11:12 PM Tom_L: that's why it's rubbing
11:13 PM Tom_L: and if the cam moves forward with the gear, it will throw the timing off because they are helical gears
11:14 PM Tom_L: ok. i'm out
11:15 PM rue_mohr: they *specifically* said they did not pull the valve cover
11:16 PM rue_mohr: becasue I asked them to put the new seal in if they did
11:16 PM rue_mohr: (sitting on the passenger seat)
11:16 PM rue_mohr: thanks again tom
11:17 PM rue_mohr: the thinking it all thru with someone is priceless
11:17 PM rue_mohr: and ma's car needs a COMPLETE brake redo
11:36 PM rue_mohr: to the tune of $1k
11:37 PM rue_mohr: a real shop and honestly it needs it