#garfield Logs

Jan 23 2019

12:52 AM zhanx: -28F this morning here
12:56 AM zhanx: and tomorrow 37 with freezing rain
02:15 AM rue_bed: oh I hope the van isn't frzen
08:36 AM rue_bed: -
10:05 AM Jymmm: park it near your boiler?
10:06 AM Jymmm: zhanx: Where's "here" ?
10:54 AM Jymmm: rue_mohr: FINALLY found something more specific to what I've been looking for... http://blog.dragonheaters.com/burning-wood-thermal-mass-material-selection/
11:13 AM Jymmm: rue_mohr: Nice article, never heard of "bell system" http://blog.dragonheaters.com/wood-heat-storage-flues-vs-bells/
11:16 AM furrywolf: "For example, nitrogen, which comprises approximately 80% of atmospheric air, is a ballast gas. Ballast gases are not as hot and cool off quicker. In a bell system where gravity naturally separates the temperatures this allows the ballast gases to be removed 1st," and with that, I have totally lost faith in anything this person might ever say.
11:17 AM furrywolf: you are not separating gasses in your flue.
11:17 AM furrywolf: period.
11:30 AM Jymmm: It was flue VERSUS bell
11:33 AM Jymmm: In a flue system, just the velosity alone wouldn't allow seperation I wouldn't believe. But in a bell system, I susspose it's possible.
10:56 PM Jymmm: I'm using this chart https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/specific-heat-capacity-d_391.html to verify this calculator http://www.endmemo.com/convert/specific%20heat%20capacity.php could someone vonfirm, because Im not gettng the same results for both (I really want the BTU numbers of: 0.98 J/gK)
11:13 PM rue_mohr: Jymmm,
11:16 PM rue_mohr: why would you go natural converction?
11:17 PM rue_mohr: that table dosne't say anything about state change media
11:17 PM rue_mohr: wax may be low on the list, but when it state changes, it stores more than water
11:18 PM rue_mohr: you know that, right?
11:20 PM Jymmm: rue_mohr: Soapstone https://www.tulikivi.com/en/tulikivi/Properties_of_soapstone
11:22 PM Jymmm: Because I like/use BTU for everything
11:22 PM Jymmm: I'd like to use wax, and even have a source for it in 50lb boxes, but doesn't do well at 1400F
11:24 PM rue_mohr: but was will store a LOT more energy over state change
11:24 PM rue_mohr: your not fathoming by how much
11:25 PM Jymmm: but it'll break down/ignight at flue temps
11:27 PM rue_mohr: yea, you have to do an equal energy temp conversion
11:27 PM rue_mohr: its like a swtiching power suppply
11:27 PM rue_mohr: constant power, different voltage/currents
11:27 PM Jymmm: you know what a bong is?
11:27 PM rue_mohr: Jymmm, if I put a 1W resistor on a piece of 2"x2" aluminum, how hot will it get?
11:28 PM Jymmm: 3.412142 BTU
11:28 PM rue_mohr: but how hot will it get
11:29 PM rue_mohr: (dissipating 1w)
11:30 PM Jymmm: 0.5781759824 BTU/h∙ft∙°F
11:30 PM rue_mohr: in degrees c
11:30 PM rue_mohr: cmon
11:30 PM Jymmm: Yeah, sorry, I do imperial
11:31 PM rue_mohr: you cant answer the question
11:31 PM Jymmm: you know what a bong is?
11:31 PM rue_mohr: I'm canadian, duh
11:31 PM Jymmm: lmao, 1400F flue gasses into water
11:31 PM rue_mohr: point is, it will hit about 660c and then the aluminum will melt away
11:31 PM rue_mohr: look, my point is
11:32 PM rue_mohr: that temperature is the difference between how much energy goes into something and how much goes out
11:33 PM Jymmm: Like I siad, I'd LOVE to use wax, really. But I have no way to get from 1400F to 140F (for the wax)
11:33 PM rue_mohr: your not understanding
11:33 PM rue_mohr: you dont need to use the heat at 1400c
11:34 PM Jymmm: I need to burn at about 1400F for full combustion
11:34 PM rue_mohr: your not understanding
11:34 PM rue_mohr: :/
11:35 PM Jymmm: you use a blower on your boiler, what flue temps to you get on avg?
11:35 PM Jymmm: do*
11:35 PM rue_mohr: hold on...
11:36 PM Jymmm: holding
11:45 PM rue_mohr: ... phone
11:46 PM rue_mohr: ugh, I cant help diagnose your cablevision system over the phone!!!
11:46 PM rue_mohr: ok, where were we
11:46 PM rue_mohr: temperature
11:46 PM rue_mohr: energy != temperature
11:47 PM rue_mohr: if you have 1200 joules you can dial it into as ment or few joules as you want
11:47 PM rue_mohr: sure you ahve 1400c, and if you move enough wax thru it (directly or indirectly) you can remove all the energy with even just 1c temp rise
11:47 PM rue_mohr: am I getting thru?
11:50 PM rue_mohr: my reactor drops about 1200c across the exchanger, and in turn, the exchanger media rises about 5-20c
11:53 PM rue_mohr: according to this calc, the reactor puts about 118MJ into the tank in an hour
11:53 PM rue_mohr: with a 10-20c temp rise
11:54 PM rue_mohr: 1400c -> 200c air 15c->25c water
11:55 PM rue_mohr: hmmm
11:55 PM rue_mohr: 275A at 120V
11:56 PM Jymmm: But how do I get wax past/thru those 1400F flue temps is the issue
11:56 PM Jymmm: 1400F btw, not c
11:57 PM Jymmm: My BIGGST issue is I dont have the physical real estate primarily
11:57 PM rue_mohr: you use an intermediate medium
11:58 PM Jymmm: such as?
11:58 PM rue_mohr: you dont want to overcool the fire, so you take the ENERGY off the exhaust gass
11:58 PM rue_mohr: water works
11:58 PM rue_mohr: the water wont boil, cause you dont put enough ENERGY into it for that to happen
11:59 PM rue_mohr: you want to play the transition point of the wax
11:59 PM Jymmm: But water can't "extract" all (majority) of the heat to be stored
11:59 PM Jymmm: I would need LOTS of water