#garfield Logs
Jan 12 2019
#garfield Calendar
03:31 AM rue_bed: that was more than a nap
06:12 AM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
03:03 PM Jymmm: rue_bed: wax filled ping pong balls... I thought it might be better/easier to fill 1" cheap irrigation tubing with wax, then heat seal the ends
03:26 PM rue_mohr: expansion
03:26 PM rue_mohr: but the balls would have more area
03:27 PM rue_mohr: 1"
03:27 PM rue_mohr: zippo:/files/programming/c/libdev/2d2# circle -r 0.5
03:27 PM rue_mohr: Radius is : 0.500000
03:27 PM rue_mohr: Diameter is: 1.000000
03:27 PM rue_mohr: Circumfrence is : 3.141593
03:27 PM rue_mohr: Area is : 0.785398
03:27 PM rue_mohr: Sphere area: 3.141593
03:27 PM rue_mohr: Sphere volume: 0.523599
03:27 PM rue_mohr: so a 1" ball has 3.14"^2 of surface area
03:28 PM rue_mohr: you would need 1" of tubing to match that
03:28 PM rue_mohr: (this seems wrong, quite wrong)
03:29 PM rue_mohr: but it isn't
03:32 PM rue_mohr: you wouldn't get the volume
03:32 PM rue_mohr: no you would get more
03:32 PM rue_mohr: waaaaaaa, why did this not come up earlier
03:33 PM Jymmm: haha, cuase I just thought of it this week?
04:02 PM Jymmm: computer crashed, so lost conversation
04:16 PM Jymmm: rue_bed: Those 1" tubes could be 36" long and fit inside a 55 gallon drum. I got the idea from your "boiler" design.
04:17 PM Jymmm: rue_bed: They would most likely float anyway, so feed in the water water into the from from the bottom was my thought.
04:17 PM Jymmm: the hot water*
04:18 PM Jymmm: I'm really just trying to figure out the "MASS" part here
04:19 PM Jymmm: Could even bury the 3ft tubes in the ground, in a underground "pool" of sorts
04:19 PM Jymmm: A deep hole with walls insulated using perlite
05:11 PM rue_mohr: the thermal calc is nonstandard becsuase of the state change
05:12 PM rue_mohr: hey wait a min
05:12 PM rue_mohr: ah, no, I thought for a sec the state change temp was over the boiling point of the water
07:09 PM Jymmm: rue_bed: realistically, wax is probably out for now. Going to see what sand/salt and clay are like
07:15 PM Jymmm: Hmmm, I'm not sure what term I'm looking for. It's not thermal conductivity, it's not thermal insulation,
07:15 PM Jymmm: thermal storage????
07:16 PM Jymmm: heat/thermal capcity?
07:16 PM Jymmm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capacity
07:16 PM furrywolf: thermal mass?
07:18 PM Jymmm: Looks liek that was it, ty
07:18 PM Jymmm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_mass
07:21 PM Jymmm: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/specific-heat-solids-d_154.html
08:20 PM rue_mohr: its not the thermal mass or the specific heat, cause it goes thru a state change
08:20 PM rue_mohr: and when it changes state it absorbs/emits a LOT of energy
08:20 PM rue_mohr: iirc, by the material alone, helium is the winner,
08:21 PM Jymmm: liquid helium ?
08:21 PM rue_mohr: bit hard to use the transistion point of helium between a gas and a liquid tho
08:22 PM rue_mohr: https://www.climatetechwiki.org/technology/jiqweb-pcm-0
08:22 PM rue_mohr: see the graph, at the melting point the temperature stays the same but the energy takes a huge leap
08:43 PM Jymmm: Eh, I dnt think I can do liquid helium. maybe more salt, glass, gravel, sand
08:45 PM Jymmm: Hmmmm, baking soda???
09:31 PM rue_shop3: no, dude , state change
09:31 PM rue_shop3: did you look at the graph?
09:39 PM Jymmm: I saw it, yes. melting point of baking soda is 122F
09:44 PM rue_shop1: what?
09:44 PM rue_shop1: 50c!?
09:44 PM rue_shop1: WTF
09:44 PM rue_shop1: no way
09:45 PM rue_shop1: WHERE IS SOME BAKING SODA
09:48 PM Jymmm: "... (Decomposes to sodium carbonate starting at 50 °C[1][6]) "
09:48 PM Jymmm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_bicarbonate
09:48 PM Jymmm: so they "lie" to whent then mean by melting
09:48 PM Jymmm: what*
09:49 PM furrywolf: so, I found some really adorable fursuits today...
09:50 PM rue_mohr: heh
09:50 PM furrywolf: http://d.facdn.net/art/oneeyeddoe/1543334181/1521037818.oneeyeddoe_jem-fin-2018.png http://d.facdn.net/art/oneeyeddoe/1415381689/1415381689.oneeyeddoe_52.png http://d.facdn.net/art/oneeyeddoe/1415381094/1415381094.oneeyeddoe_51.png https://i.pinimg.com/originals/90/94/df/9094df17be9a21835af94418d0af76ab.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e5/bd/71/e5bd711dc74a0f99fd91bf8f56e071cd.png
09:50 PM furrywolf: https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/intermediary/f/46315df2-d53c-4bb2-97fd-72f88b9bd6ba/d8k9w9o-f6b9c243-7299-4de8-b8e4-1a97f66a0514.jpg/v1/fill/w_400,h_250,q_70,strp/friendsies_by_fotofurnl_d8k9w9o-250t.jpg https://scontent-lax3-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/39860baf54f4cac6d8b11d0903cad752/5C91B13F/t51.2885-15/e15/s480x480/10576006_279211202282496_2039578226_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.cdninstagram.com
09:50 PM furrywolf: and then I saw the prices. Want to guess what those cost?
09:51 PM rue_mohr: about $1500+
09:51 PM furrywolf: I wish. pick another number.
09:51 PM rue_mohr: 2100?
09:52 PM furrywolf: keep going. in larger increments.
09:52 PM rue_mohr: !!
09:52 PM rue_mohr: wow
09:52 PM furrywolf: their minimum order is $8000
09:52 PM rue_mohr: maybe I should make a fursuit
09:52 PM rue_mohr: how many do they make in a year?
09:52 PM furrywolf: not that many
09:52 PM rue_mohr: a person wouldn't have to
09:53 PM rue_mohr: hey, what did you need to relocate w/ the shop problem?
09:53 PM rue_mohr: I wonder how long it takes me to make $8000
09:54 PM furrywolf: I don't need to relocate. I'm just not allowed to use anything. I got yelled at for using my storage space as a workshop, and how that's totally unacceptable, their insurance doesn't allow it, and I'm not allowed to do anything but store stuff.
09:55 PM rue_mohr: tractor-trailer
09:55 PM rue_mohr: can you round up about $8000?
09:56 PM rue_mohr: I was going to make one
09:56 PM rue_mohr: home/shop
09:56 PM Jymmm: rue_bed: I was thinking a coiled exhaust inside a 55gal drum that filled with salt. and a rocket stove
09:57 PM rue_mohr: I'm not sure if it would work as well
09:57 PM rue_mohr: I wonder what the expansion ratio is
09:58 PM rue_mohr: furrywolf, what about moving to canada?
09:58 PM Jymmm: Oh, the drum would be lined with 1" of perlite to help reduce the corrosive nature of the slat to the steel drum
09:59 PM rue_mohr: I'm totally gonna get some baking soda tommorow
09:59 PM rue_mohr: wait
09:59 PM rue_mohr: wait
09:59 PM rue_mohr: wait!!!
09:59 PM rue_mohr: fire extinguisher compound is mostly baking soda, maybe slightly modified
09:59 PM furrywolf: why the hell would you use salt?
09:59 PM Jymmm: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/j100819a021?journalCode=jpchax
10:00 PM rue_mohr: I have some ABC on the deck, maybe a BC
10:00 PM rue_mohr: ...
10:00 PM rue_mohr: 50c!?
10:00 PM rue_mohr: Monoammonium phosphate
10:00 PM rue_mohr: whats baking soda?
10:00 PM Jymmm: furrywolf: because salt melts at 1400F and that's not uncomon flue temps of a rocket stove
10:01 PM Jymmm: sodium bicorbanate
10:01 PM rue_mohr: It insulates Class A fires by melting at approximately 350–400 degrees F.
10:01 PM rue_mohr: too hot
10:01 PM rue_mohr: damn, I can get a litteral tonne of it
10:01 PM furrywolf: if you're going to build molten salt storage, you need to use a salt mix, and do it non-redneck.
10:02 PM rue_mohr: mix of?
10:02 PM Jymmm: that was my question
10:02 PM furrywolf: there is no acceptable redneck molten salt storage. heh.
10:02 PM rue_mohr: I wonder if I can 'bump' the melting point of sodium bicarbonate with monomonium phosphate
10:03 PM rue_mohr: furrywolf, what are the expansion rates on salt?
10:03 PM rue_mohr: BC agent is a sodium bicarbonate
10:03 PM rue_mohr: ""
10:04 PM rue_mohr: so, BC extinguishers, which are usually taken out of service
10:04 PM rue_mohr: thats 5-10lbs/shot
10:05 PM rue_mohr: damnit, all 4 on the deck are ABC
10:05 PM Jymmm: Melting point 190 °C
10:05 PM rue_mohr: there might be a BC in the scrap pile at work tho, I'll have to check
10:06 PM Jymmm: rue_mohr: abc and bc are all the same
10:06 PM rue_mohr: no
10:06 PM Jymmm: what does ABC have/missing from BC ?
10:06 PM Tom_L: A
10:06 PM rue_mohr: electrical conductivity
10:07 PM rue_mohr: er
10:07 PM rue_mohr: think I got it backwards haha
10:07 PM rue_mohr: A is normal fire, B is grease, C is electrical, D is metal
10:07 PM furrywolf: A is generic wood/paper/etc if I remember right
10:08 PM Jymmm: No, I mean chemical wise in the extinguisher
10:08 PM furrywolf: what do you use to put out a ClF3 fire? :)
10:08 PM rue_mohr: "BC agent is a sodium bicarbonate based"
10:08 PM Jymmm: furrywolf: graphite extinguisher
10:08 PM rue_mohr: ABC is Monoammonium phosphate
10:08 PM Tom_L: Class A for trash, wood and paper, Class B for liquids and gases, and Class C for energized electrical sources.
10:08 PM rue_mohr: D is for metal
10:09 PM rue_mohr: K is specialty for kitchen, its got da foam
10:09 PM rue_mohr: an A extinguisher is just pressurized water
10:09 PM rue_mohr: K is A with foam
10:09 PM furrywolf: Jymmm: I'm pretty sure ClF3 will burn graphite.
10:10 PM Jymmm: furrywolf: Oh, nitrogen
10:11 PM furrywolf: graphene fluoride, according to google. lol
10:11 PM Jymmm: Other than the use of nitrogen and noble gases, no known fire control/suppression methods are capable of suppressing this oxidation
10:11 PM Jymmm: I have 80Cf of nitrogen, then I'm screwed =)
10:12 PM rue_mohr: :) helium stores a lot of energy
10:12 PM rue_mohr: better than water
10:12 PM furrywolf: "a good pair of running shoes" is ususally quoted (thanks to Ignition!) as the best way of fighting a ClF3 fire. :)
10:12 PM Jymmm: rue_mohr: But the phase change temperature of helium?
10:15 PM rue_mohr: about -900c
10:15 PM rue_mohr: why?
10:15 PM rue_mohr: :)
10:15 PM rue_mohr: thats what heat pumps are for, navigation of thermal offsets
10:16 PM Jymmm: rue_mohr: Case I don't live in space, earth doood, earth =)
10:16 PM Jymmm: cause*
10:16 PM rue_mohr: you have heat pump tech...
10:17 PM rue_mohr: just dont let the temp come up too much or it'll go boom
10:18 PM rue_mohr: ok, its not that bad
10:18 PM rue_mohr: -272.2 °C is its melting point
10:18 PM rue_mohr: but yea, it boils at -268.9c
10:19 PM rue_mohr: so, keep it between like -270c and -280c
10:19 PM rue_mohr: which should yeild a LOT of storage
10:19 PM Jymmm: YEah NOOOOO! haha
10:20 PM Jymmm: 55gal drum == 7.4 cubic feet
10:20 PM rue_mohr: I wonder how much it expands
10:21 PM furrywolf: ”It is, of course, extremely toxic, but that’s the least of the problem. It is hypergolic with every known fuel, and so rapidly hypergolic that no ignition delay has ever been measured. It is also hypergolic with such things as cloth, wood, and test engineers, not to mention asbestos, sand, and water-with which it reacts explosively. It can be kept in some of the ordinary structural metals-steel, copper, aluminium, etc.
10:21 PM rue_shop1: no its not...
10:21 PM furrywolf: because of the formation of a thin film of insoluble metal fluoride which protects the bulk of the metal, just as the invisible coat of oxide on aluminium keeps it from burning up in the atmosphere. If, however, this coat is melted or scrubbed off, and has no chance to reform, the operator is confronted with the problem of coping with a metal-fluorine fire. For dealing with this situation, I have always recommended a good pair of running shoes.”
10:22 PM rue_shop1: hulium
10:22 PM furrywolf: (just in case no one has read Ignition!, for some odd reason)
10:22 PM rue_shop1: your not talking about helium :/
10:23 PM rue_shop1: I think your on about flourine
10:23 PM rue_shop1: which is insane stuff
10:23 PM rue_shop1: okokok, cmon, I want to make something
10:24 PM rue_shop1: at this rate I'm gonna sit on the floor and make up a 555 led flasher
10:24 PM Jymmm: rue_mohr: 555, WOW you must be fucking bored! lmao
10:25 PM rue_shop1: I wonder if my old robot platform still works
10:25 PM furrywolf: ClF3, as I joked about earlier when talking about fire extinguishing.
10:26 PM Jymmm: I could make/form clay channels in the drum to act as flue pipe going back and forth, then fill in the area with salt???
10:26 PM rue_shop1: haha it does, I owe that battery a charge
10:29 PM rue_shop1: ok, this thing has lots of hardware
10:30 PM rue_shop1: we got motors, 4 buttons, 4 leds, an lcd, wiskers, and IR proxies
10:30 PM rue_shop1: and a beeper
10:30 PM Jymmm: what thing?
10:30 PM rue_shop1: so, how does it find a charging station
10:31 PM rue_shop1: "smoking progress" which was misnamed it was supposed to be "smoldering progress"
10:32 PM rue_shop1: but you know how it is, its cursed if you change the name
10:32 PM rue_shop1: http://ruemohr.org/%7Eircjunk/robots/multibots/smokingprogress/dscn6164.jpg
10:32 PM rue_shop1: oh yea, its got the line sensors on the bottom
10:32 PM rue_shop1: I forgot about that
10:33 PM rue_shop1: http://ruemohr.org/%7Eircjunk/robots/multibots/smokingprogress/dscn6162.jpg
10:56 PM Jymmm: rue_mohr: HEY I FOUND IT!!!!
10:57 PM Jymmm: 55gal drum of lead... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-change_material
10:57 PM zhanx: Evening
10:57 PM rue_shop1: hey
10:57 PM rue_shop1: zhanx, I need you to help with that gearbox
10:57 PM rue_shop1: not *now* tho
10:57 PM zhanx: k
10:58 PM rue_shop1: I'm trying to work out homing for my little tracked robot
10:58 PM zhanx: k
10:58 PM zhanx: I am printing this https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2755765 with no supports .05 mm layers
10:58 PM rue_shop1: after sitting on the shelf for like 4 years, the li-ion are still good
10:58 PM rue_shop1: recharging now
10:58 PM Jymmm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volumetric_heat_capacity
10:59 PM rue_shop1: zhanx, Jymmm needs a heat pump
10:59 PM zhanx: for?
10:59 PM Tom_L: why are you looking for energy storage media?
11:00 PM rue_shop1: storage tank between like -270c and -280c , radiator 26c-30c
11:00 PM Tom_L: one off grid house used a large concrete pillar in the middle of the house
11:00 PM rue_shop1: oh damn! thermal wall!
11:00 PM rue_shop1: I forgot to put in a thermal wall!
11:00 PM Tom_L: behind the fireplace
11:01 PM rue_shop1: I'll do like the building supplies store and have a brick wall thats bottom is on the 2nd floor...
11:02 PM Tom_L: temporarily on the 2nd floor?
11:02 PM rue_shop1: no, it just starts on the second floor
11:02 PM rue_shop1: and goes up
11:02 PM Tom_L: what supports it?
11:02 PM rue_shop1: who makes the SECOND floor brick!???
11:02 PM rue_shop1: I think there is a large steel beam
11:02 PM rue_shop1: under atleast most of it
11:03 PM rue_shop1: ok so, the idea I have for homiing is this
11:03 PM rue_shop1: you stole the idea I gave you?
11:03 PM rue_shop1: its our idea, ssh
11:03 PM rue_shop1: is to make an IR transmitter that emmits a stream of successivly longer pulses
11:03 PM rue_shop1: the short pulses wont be picked up by the sensor with the weaker signal
11:04 PM rue_shop1: so, you will see the pulses on one side more than the other
11:04 PM rue_shop1: this IS just line of sight
11:04 PM rue_shop1: I know I know
11:04 PM rue_shop1: but what do you guys think?
11:04 PM Tom_L: kinda like my first light seeker
11:04 PM rue_shop1: hah, the IR ranger board is backwards, 1 reciever, 2 tx
11:05 PM zhanx: rue_shop1, remember back in march i order a bracket for my hotend to hold it, and then i just made one? well it came in today
11:07 PM zhanx: i had to look up when i ordered it, it was 44 cents and I ordered it march 3rd
11:07 PM Tom_L: march of last year?
11:08 PM Tom_L: gawd...
11:08 PM rue_shop1: heh
11:09 PM Tom_L: zhanx this is why: https://imgur.com/gallery/koxH4NQ
11:11 PM zhanx: wow
11:23 PM rue_shop1: hey, I think if my mom declares bankrupcy they cant take her home or garnish her pension