#garfield Logs
Oct 21 2018
#garfield Calendar
02:21 AM rue_mohr: I'm starting to freak out that I'm not doing what I would normally be doing
02:25 AM rue_mohr: and I dont know what that is
11:56 AM Tom_L: all it takes is for someone to speak
12:02 PM rue_shop3: yea, everyone just speak up!
12:05 PM furrywolf: did I miss something?
12:05 PM rue_shop3: all of it,
12:05 PM rue_shop3: it might happen again tho, dunno
12:05 PM rue_shop3: whats going on with you this weekend
12:05 PM rue_shop3: so far I slept
12:06 PM rue_shop3: and chopped some firewood
12:06 PM furrywolf: fucking around with shitty cad/cam software that pisses me off
12:06 PM rue_shop3: yea, I'm working on writing a linux cam program
12:06 PM rue_shop3: because of that
12:06 PM rue_shop3: otherwise, for my machines, the best I'v found free is bamcam for windows
12:07 PM rue_shop3: I dont understand why there are not 100000000 cam programs out there for free
12:11 PM furrywolf: probably because they're not shiny
12:11 PM furrywolf: and a lot fewer users
12:13 PM rue_shop3: I was going to start a cadcam back in '98, but I was sure that if I just waited a few years someone else would do it
12:13 PM rue_shop3: :/
12:14 PM rue_shop3: I'd be so far ahead if I'd just done it
12:14 PM rue_shop3: I could have the leading cadcam package
12:15 PM furrywolf: wouldn't be hard... anything that simply WORKS would put you in the lead.
12:16 PM rue_shop3: I know eh?
12:16 PM rue_shop3: so far all my software can do is drill holes spec'd by point in a dxf
12:16 PM rue_shop3: I'm having gui problems, been working on just gui stuff for 2 weeks now
12:17 PM furrywolf: doing that without segfaulting puts you ahead of at least half the offerings. :P
12:17 PM rue_shop3: I'm going with motif
12:17 PM rue_shop3: its been an uphill battle
12:17 PM rue_shop3: I have the select list object worked out, I need to combine it with an area to draw the dxf
12:18 PM rue_shop3: after I can select things in the dxf, I can apply operations to them
12:18 PM rue_shop3: :S
12:19 PM rue_shop3: I have the library to read the dxf (working) and the start of a library to generate the cnc operations (it can drill holes right now, mostly because cambam cant drill holes)
12:42 PM Tom_L: furrywolf what progress did you make with f-engrave?
12:45 PM furrywolf: it's generating toolpaths that aren't optimal, and I've had to kludge a few things, but I think I can do my current project with it.
12:50 PM furrywolf: for a manual tool change, just use the touch off feature and linuxcnc will magically make it work, right?
12:53 PM furrywolf: and make sure I leave a place to touch off on, of course. lol
01:03 PM Tom_L: yeah that should work ok
01:04 PM furrywolf: linuxcnc is pretending to cut a f-engrave-generated test now... as I said, the toolpaths aren't great, but it should work.
01:04 PM furrywolf: it cuts some lines multiple times, and sometimes raises the lowers the spindle back down in the exact same spot
01:05 PM furrywolf: i.e. on a straight line, it might decided to raise and lower it in the middle of it, then keep cutting the same line.
01:05 PM furrywolf: the pocketing operation is a lot of cut length... will need to see how high I can crank the feed up to.
01:06 PM furrywolf: the router on the machine is _fast_. I don't know what RPM it is, but it's the fastest tool I've heard. it's a little b&d router, which seems to rely on speed instead of torque...
01:07 PM furrywolf: I'm sure it's pushing 20k
01:10 PM furrywolf: google says a similar model is 22k
01:10 PM furrywolf: another similar 25k...
01:11 PM Tom_L: ... it's free.
01:12 PM furrywolf: I'm bringing hearing protection this time. I didn't last time, and severely regretted it.
01:13 PM Tom_L: my cheap little router is rather loud too
01:14 PM furrywolf: I went out and got some new bits, so I should be able to run it faster than the one I was using last time, which came with it... trying to crank the speed up just made it bog down and burn the chips. heh.
01:15 PM furrywolf: dull HSS
01:17 PM rue_mohr: if you have a windwos machine, try bamcam
01:23 PM furrywolf: bbl, going to head over there and do some test cuts
01:25 PM rue_mohr: have fun!
01:26 PM rue_mohr: furrywolf, you cat/dont want to try bamcam eh?
01:26 PM furrywolf: I do not like windows.
01:26 PM rue_mohr: me either
01:27 PM rue_mohr: it seems to work, its a bit slow, but has never crashed
01:27 PM rue_mohr: I dont even want to talk about the other things I tried
01:27 PM rue_mohr: hopelss java and python stuff
01:28 PM Tom_L: as you didn't invest in cad cam early on, i did and now i appreciate it alot
01:28 PM furrywolf: pycam took two days to generate a useless toolpath. people say this is normal.
01:29 PM Tom_L: not normal in my world
01:29 PM rue_shop3: yea, I gave up on it pretty quick
01:29 PM Tom_L: your investment would have been time...
01:30 PM Tom_L: by now it could have been a polished gem
01:31 PM rue_shop3: yea
01:31 PM rue_shop3: tho it was started in qbasic
01:31 PM rue_shop3: I didn't get anywhere
01:32 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/examples/gcode.html
01:32 PM Tom_L: those are some add on tabs lcnc will generate code for
01:32 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gui/image-to-gcode.html
01:32 PM Tom_L: also that
01:33 PM furrywolf: bbl
01:33 PM rue_shop3: yea, I have two control programs for the old cnc
01:33 PM rue_shop3: one (the origional) takes an 8 bit greyscale tga and does a surface profile
01:34 PM rue_shop3: for post-secondary project I did a command interpreter for it
01:34 PM rue_shop3: not gcode, its... custom
01:36 PM Tom_L: how did you go about it?
01:39 PM rue_shop3: every line is a 1 letter command (like L for line) followed by params on the following lines
01:39 PM rue_shop3: L
01:39 PM rue_shop3: 2
01:39 PM rue_shop3: 3
01:39 PM rue_shop3: 5
01:39 PM rue_shop3: will go to 2,3,5
01:39 PM rue_shop3: line interpolation
01:39 PM Tom_L: x y z?
01:40 PM rue_shop3: yea
01:40 PM Tom_L: mm?
01:40 PM Tom_L: fathoms?
01:40 PM rue_shop3: no, inches
01:40 PM rue_shop3: you can do floats
01:40 PM Tom_L: k
01:40 PM Tom_L: funny cause all the stuff you send me is in mm :)
01:41 PM rue_shop3: it does line, circles, arcs, and X Y Z stuff, speed, pause, beep
01:41 PM rue_shop3: yea, I started in imperial, I'v learned
01:41 PM rue_shop3: I started on apple too!
01:41 PM Tom_L: omfg
01:41 PM rue_shop3: mac classic fixed that fast!
01:41 PM rue_shop3: NO PROGRAMMING FOR YOU!
01:42 PM rue_shop3: .. was there a dst change....
01:42 PM rue_shop3: it should be 12 and the sun should be out
01:43 PM Tom_L: mild fall sunny day here
07:50 PM Tom_L: ok zhanx, you're a car guru
07:51 PM Tom_L: i need a TPMS activation tool for a 2018 equinox but can't seem to find the frequency of their sensors
07:53 PM Tom_L: they don't work by letting air out like my older GM models do
08:32 PM rue_mohr: huh
08:33 PM rue_mohr: tire shop wont just do that?
08:40 PM Tom_L: i suppose they probably would but i rotated them myself and found out they don't work like the old ones
08:41 PM Tom_L: they'd probably charge as much as the china tool costs if it works on 2018 models. from all i can tell it probably will work
08:41 PM Tom_L: seems to be 2 working frequencies on all GM models
08:42 PM Tom_L: 315 or 433 Mhz
08:44 PM Tom_itx: https://gmtoolsandequipment.com/en-US/Pages/ItemDetail.aspx?SKU=EL-50448
08:44 PM Tom_itx: is the 'official' tool
08:45 PM Tom_itx: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ship-From-US-VXSCAN-TPMS-Reset-Tool-EL50448-Auto-Tire-Pressure-Monitor-Sensor/282867538281?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
08:45 PM Tom_itx: is the one i'm looking at
08:46 PM Tom_itx: https://www.ebay.com/itm/EL-50448-OEC-T5-Auto-Tire-Pressure-Monitor-Sensor-Activation-Tool-TPMS-For-GM-F/273512401812?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144
08:46 PM Tom_itx: or that one
08:48 PM Tom_L: pretty sure all it is is a 315 or 433 Mhz transmitter
08:49 PM furrywolf: did some actual tests on the router table today... it's too floppy. both leadscrew flop and undriven end of gantry flop.
08:49 PM Tom_L: did the code do ok?
08:49 PM furrywolf: also, needs more current to the Z stepper. and, unrelated to that issue, the Z ais G203V blew a hole in its PCB.
08:50 PM Tom_L: i bet you could send it to him and he'd fix it
08:50 PM furrywolf: sorta... the v-groove cleanup is simply broken, and the stepover adjustment for the straight cleanup is broken.
08:50 PM furrywolf: it's still working!
08:50 PM Tom_L: the driver is?
08:50 PM furrywolf: the part that looks like a fuse, maybe, arced from its socket to the small resistor next to it, blowing out the pcb between them.
08:51 PM Tom_L: that's not cheap chinese junk
08:51 PM furrywolf: I wire brushed the pcb, glopped dielectric grease on it, plugged it back in... and it still works.
08:51 PM Tom_L: i've been told he will fix his stuff for nothing or next to it
08:51 PM Tom_L: the 203v is supposed to be bullet proof
08:52 PM Tom_L: as the saying goes...
08:52 PM furrywolf: I don't know if it was defective, and there was insufficient spacing between these two parts, if a chip or something bridged them, or if it was conductive contamination... some parts near it had white crusty fuzz on them.
08:53 PM Tom_L: huh
08:53 PM furrywolf: it was fogging pretty heavily... I suspect the white crusty stuff soaked up fog.
08:57 PM furrywolf: the biggest issue is the X drive simply sucks.
08:57 PM Tom_L: yeah
08:57 PM furrywolf: 9ft 1/2" leadscrew = no.
09:00 PM furrywolf: but, I can't afford the time+money (in varying ratios but the same sum) to replace it, so I'm probably going to go with the cable kludge, and a couple blocks of moly to support it at 1/2 and 3/4, that I can remove if I actually need to use the full table.
09:01 PM Tom_L: sounds reasonable
09:01 PM furrywolf: I have to keep it below 0.5in/s as it is now
09:03 PM furrywolf: the flop quickly gets bad enough it will break things... it makes the whole table flop around (all 400lbs or so of it!), and by tweaking the nut on the gantry, makes the gantry rock back and forth.
09:04 PM furrywolf: I have both green oiled nylon in 1/2" sheet, and pure white nylon in 1" sheet... should be able to rig up a couple easily-removable "bearings".
09:05 PM furrywolf: the lack of force on the Z axis I think just needs a better resistor on the driver... it has the same resistor as the Y axis, but a leadscrew with twice the pitch...
09:06 PM furrywolf: I lost steps during one of the plunges, had to re-touch-off and restart the program with a lower feed rate.
09:09 PM furrywolf: of course, the driver could also be damaged.
09:13 PM Tom_L: i've got the same drivers but i'm only pushing them at 2.5 or 3A iirc
09:13 PM Tom_L: i think they're good to around 7A
09:14 PM furrywolf: they're not heatsinked, and both them and the motors are cool... which makes me think they need more current. :P
09:14 PM Tom_L: you want to heatsink them
09:14 PM furrywolf: oh, I checked the router... I knew it sounded fast! rated for 30K RPM.
09:14 PM furrywolf: they're heatsunk by being screw to sheet metal with no thermal grease.
09:15 PM furrywolf: Y and Z are, at least. X has a small cpu cooler.
09:15 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/heatsink_bulk.jpg
09:15 PM Tom_L: i got a chunk of that on mine
09:16 PM furrywolf: I have a decent random-big-heatsinks collection... I snag them at the local scrapyard when I see them.
09:16 PM furrywolf: the biggest is about 16" by 12" by 5" thick
09:16 PM Tom_L: that was at the alum scrap yard one day
09:17 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/will_it_fit.jpg
09:17 PM Tom_L: that was my test setup before i put it all in the box
09:18 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Control1.jpg
09:18 PM Tom_L: mounted them to the door
09:18 PM furrywolf: http://fw.bushytails.net/img/phone/101818/1018181855g.jpg what this came with
09:19 PM Tom_L: those aren't heatsinks under them?
09:19 PM furrywolf: there's another power supply you can't really see in that photo, stuffed in the drive bays. I haven't checked what voltage it is.
09:20 PM furrywolf: there's a heatsink under X.
09:20 PM Tom_L: ahh
09:20 PM furrywolf: Y and Z and just screwed to the case.
09:20 PM Tom_L: heh
09:20 PM furrywolf: I have the breakout board running off the AT power supply. lol
09:21 PM Tom_L: long as it works...
09:21 PM furrywolf: it's... a clever idea. re-using an AT case. it's probably not what I would do, but it works...
09:21 PM Tom_L: using the same axis connectors i used
09:21 PM furrywolf: those three transformers in yours look overkill.
09:21 PM Tom_L: they are
09:22 PM Tom_L: local surplus
09:22 PM furrywolf: my lathe/mill combo I just used one beefy torroid and one big hunky cap...
09:22 PM Tom_L: one probably would have been enough
09:22 PM furrywolf: 65V @ 14A if I remember right.
09:22 PM Tom_L: i parallel'd them
09:22 PM Tom_L: 48v 18A iirc
09:22 PM furrywolf: and a big 80V cap
09:22 PM Tom_L: the caps were surplus too
09:22 PM furrywolf: I think mine would be 48 VAC, but it's around 65 rectified and filtered...
09:22 PM Tom_L: instead of one big one
09:22 PM Tom_L: yeah
09:23 PM furrywolf: I'm actually regretting not pushing the drivers to their full 80V, but oh well.
09:23 PM furrywolf: they're probably happier at 65 anyway.
09:23 PM Tom_L: i'm concerned about bumping up the amps on mine
09:23 PM Tom_L: the steppers should take it fine
09:23 PM furrywolf: I have the centent cn0165s on that build... 10A all day.
09:24 PM furrywolf: I actually need to turn _down_ the current on it... I learned the fun way that if you crash it, it has enough torque to un-press the bearings from the housings.
09:24 PM Tom_L: mine are 570 in/oz 5A nema23
09:24 PM furrywolf: I figure the current limit should be set less than what it takes to mechanically destroy things. :)
09:25 PM Tom_L: mine was sitting on the workbench with a vise close by
09:25 PM Tom_L: the X moved and ran into the vise but just started pushing the mill across the table
09:25 PM furrywolf: I don't remember what mine are... I'm tempted to say 980 oz/in. nema34.
09:25 PM Tom_L: very likely
09:25 PM furrywolf: long nema34s, about 7" long, not the short fat ones.
09:25 PM Tom_L: pretty hefty
09:26 PM furrywolf: and... *thinks*.... 1.4ohms? something like that.
09:26 PM Tom_L: compared to the first ones i had on my original sherline, these are huge
09:26 PM Tom_L: something like 135 in oz or so
09:26 PM furrywolf: but, the machine is too slow... it has a built-in 2:1 reduction between the motors and the leadscrews, and I have too much torque and not enough speed.
09:27 PM furrywolf: my sherline has little nema23 (I think) cubes, about 2" on all sides.
09:27 PM Tom_L: yep
09:27 PM furrywolf: I'm tempted to rebuild the router table with a chain drive and a fucking big DIY servo... treadmill motor or something.
09:27 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/sherline_files/sherline2.jpg
09:28 PM furrywolf: when I say rapid, you rapid damnit!
09:28 PM Tom_L: bad pic but that's the original config
09:28 PM furrywolf: http://fw.bushytails.net/mill02.jpg
09:30 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqHV0Or4Ad8
09:30 PM Tom_L: looks like the same steppers as my original ones
09:30 PM Tom_L: single stack
09:32 PM furrywolf: I have a set of spare nema34s in need of a project
09:32 PM furrywolf: more big long ones
09:32 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/StepperMount2.jpg
09:33 PM Tom_L: compared to the new steppers
09:33 PM furrywolf: my sherline could definitely use more power too
09:33 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/StepperMount1.jpg
09:33 PM Tom_L: at least triple stack
09:34 PM Tom_L: they've sure got some torque
09:34 PM furrywolf: I wish I had a shop...
09:35 PM furrywolf: I'm working on the router table outside, in front of someone else's barn, with a tarp to keep it from getting too badly ruined...
09:37 PM Tom_L: no room inside?
09:38 PM furrywolf: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-amp-Decker-Router-7604-5-Amp-1-HP-1-4-034-30-000-rpm-in-Original-Box-/263981337834 30K makes a whole lot of noise...
09:38 PM furrywolf: no room inside, and due to the level of suck with the gantry drive, he doesn't want to make room for it.
09:38 PM furrywolf: so it's going to live under a tarp here...
09:47 PM rue_shop3: this isn't playing out nicely
09:47 PM rue_shop3: I thought there was a whole barn
09:47 PM rue_shop3: well, I suggest changing it up then, make it sit on its edge, tilted back like a drafting table
09:50 PM furrywolf: I really need a shop. :(
09:50 PM rue_shop3: yup
09:50 PM rue_shop3: can you weld?
09:50 PM rue_shop3: those gecko drives wont last long outside
09:51 PM furrywolf: I have about six non-working welders, but I can make one of them work....
09:51 PM rue_shop3: ouch dependency tree
09:51 PM furrywolf: my Miller Bobcat doesn't have any compression. probably the easiest one to make work.
09:52 PM furrywolf: it was always a real pain to start, usually 5 minutes of cranking before it would catch... and last time I went to use it, I couldn't get it to start at all. exhaust pipe is sucking back in just as hard as it blows out.
09:53 PM furrywolf: either the valves are sticking open, or, more likely, they're burnt.
09:53 PM rue_shop3: ... dont hurt yourself
09:53 PM furrywolf: ?
09:55 PM rue_shop3: my software pwm stopped working.... wtf
10:23 PM Tom_L: had an old lincoln gas welder that was rope start... no recoil
10:23 PM Tom_L: took forever to start
10:25 PM Tom_L: got rid of it in lieu of my new miller
10:26 PM rue_shop3: I plug mine in
10:26 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Welding/Miller.jpg
10:26 PM Tom_L: i do too now
10:26 PM Tom_L: got it working good now too
10:27 PM Tom_L: the gas connector was loose for a long time and i didn't know it
10:27 PM Tom_L: wasn't getting much if any gas to the tip
10:28 PM furrywolf: mine is electric start... or, in this case, electric not starting.
10:28 PM Tom_L: :)
10:29 PM Tom_L: i wonder if squirting some oil in the cylinder would do any good for it
10:29 PM Tom_L: probably wouldn't get to the valve guides
10:30 PM Tom_L: ok i got an elcheapo tire resetter thing... hope it works
10:31 PM furrywolf: no, oil doesn't help valve problems.
10:31 PM Tom_L: yeah once the guides are shot, they're shot
10:31 PM Tom_L: i used to replace them on VW engines all the time
10:31 PM furrywolf: I don't think the guides are shot. I think the faces and seats are burnt.
10:31 PM Tom_L: ahh
10:32 PM rue_shop3: its not my pwm code
10:32 PM Tom_L: i've reground valves & seats too in another life
10:32 PM rue_shop3: its like something goes REALLY strange with the serial code for *some* bytes
10:32 PM Tom_L: maybe it takes a deep breath and enhales a few
10:33 PM furrywolf: I have both a valve grinder and a valve seat grinder... in storage buried under everything.
10:34 PM rue_shop3: ouch dependency tree
10:34 PM Tom_L: i haven't done any of that in quite a while
10:34 PM Tom_L: if they're burnt too bad you probably need a new one
10:34 PM rue_shop3: so, to fix the cnc you need the welder, to get the welder you need the valve grinder, to get the valve grinder you need to ?
10:35 PM Tom_L: dig a hole under a pile of stuff
10:35 PM furrywolf: rue_mohr: I need the shop.
10:35 PM rue_shop3: so, there must be a peculiarity on my serial code
10:35 PM rue_shop3: but, most bytes are ok, so I'm confused
10:35 PM furrywolf: http://www.lwta.net/photos/thorgrinder.jpg an old one like that
10:35 PM furrywolf: (not that model, but similar)
10:36 PM Tom_L: i think the one we had was a sunnen
10:37 PM furrywolf: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/NKcAAOSwUKxYYxwd/s-l300.jpg and one of those for the seats
10:37 PM Tom_L: yep
10:37 PM rue_shop3: its good till 0x3E, and screws up on 0x3F
10:37 PM rue_shop3: 0x40 is screwed, then 0x41 is ok
10:37 PM furrywolf: I have a lot of tools... and nowhere to use them.
10:38 PM furrywolf: there's also two brake lathes in there next to the valve grinders. :P
10:38 PM Tom_L: 0x3f is a ?
10:39 PM Tom_L: 40 is @
10:39 PM furrywolf: one normal brake lathe for drums, plus an on-vehicle one for discs
10:39 PM Tom_L: i always took the brake drums to a little shop down town
10:39 PM Tom_L: that's literally all they did
10:40 PM Tom_L: i turned a crank in a vehicle once
10:40 PM Tom_L: driving the rear tire
10:40 PM Tom_L: old splash oiling babbit bearings
10:41 PM Tom_L: old 40ish ford pu
10:41 PM furrywolf: heh, someone I know did the crank bearings in an air-cooled VW on the side of the highway
10:42 PM Tom_L: we used to align bore the case on a rebuild and put in oversize mains
10:43 PM furrywolf: I haven't done any bottom-end work on automotive engines.
10:43 PM Tom_L: years ago i did quite a bit
10:43 PM Tom_L: foreign and domestic
10:44 PM Tom_L: no diesels
10:45 PM Tom_L: a bud had a blown alcohol funny car i helped sometimes
10:45 PM Tom_L: big 560 cu in keith black aluminum block
10:48 PM Tom_L: big money pit was all that was
10:50 PM Tom_L: gnite
10:50 PM rue_shop3: it looks like you cant update TCNT0 in the overflow interrupt
11:16 PM rue_shop3: oh wow, a different chip and it works fine
11:16 PM rue_shop3: uh
11:18 PM rue_shop3: the oscillator must be way out
11:18 PM rue_shop3: ok, my code is fine then
11:19 PM rue_shop3: I wonder if its a knockoff chip with a error
11:21 PM rue_shop3: or I wonder if I'm just insane
11:21 PM rue_shop3: a new chip didn't need the clock speed flags
11:21 PM rue_shop3: ...
11:22 PM furrywolf: bbl, wolfy bedtime
11:22 PM rue_shop3: yay
11:22 PM rue_shop3: I have a 4 channel, serial pwm controller under a 9600 serial
11:22 PM rue_shop3: gnight wolf
11:22 PM rue_shop3: 740Hz
11:23 PM rue_shop3: I should check the amount of time its spending in interrupts
11:28 PM rue_mohr: yea, if that clock rate was way too fast, it could have done that
11:28 PM rue_mohr: mayeb i should have a clock calibration for tiny13s