#garfield Logs
Apr 21 2018
#garfield Calendar
12:00 AM ^kat^: ok, dragon-usb-puter , 19v-convertoor-5v-chipcarrier, everything plugged up, no smoke, +5 on pin 20, -10 is gnd
12:03 AM rue_mohr: I'm just about awake enough to be usefull
12:03 AM ^kat^: grn abd red lite on dragon
12:03 AM rue_mohr: but I'm almost out of milk for tea, see how long I last
12:03 AM rue_mohr: kat, ok, shall we try an avrdude command?
12:03 AM ^kat^: ok
12:03 AM rue_mohr: ok lets see
12:03 AM rue_mohr: remind me which avr we have
12:03 AM ^kat^: tiny2313-20I
12:03 AM rue_mohr: reference for me avrdude -c avrisp2 -P usb -p m32 -e -U flash:w:$(PRG).hex
12:03 AM rue_mohr: ^kat^, stand by
12:03 AM rue_mohr: have a dos prompt ready?
12:05 AM rue_mohr: lets try avrdude -c dragon_isp -P usb -p t2313 -e
12:05 AM rue_mohr: tell me what it says
12:05 AM ^kat^: avrdude: usbdev_open(): did not find any USB device "usb"
12:05 AM rue_mohr: ok
12:05 AM rue_mohr: lets be less specific
12:05 AM rue_mohr: lets try avrdude -c dragon_isp -p t2313 -e
12:06 AM ^kat^: avrdude: ser_open(): can't set buffers for "lpt1"
12:06 AM rue_mohr: heh
12:06 AM rue_mohr: :)
12:06 AM rue_mohr: thats halarious isn't it?
12:06 AM rue_mohr: you have to smile
12:06 AM rue_mohr: cmon...
12:07 AM * ^kat^ looks clueless
12:07 AM rue_mohr: (stand by, I'm working on an answer)
12:07 AM rue_mohr: ^kat^, look, it said the serial open couldn't open the parallel port
12:07 AM rue_mohr: (stand by, I'm working on an answer)
12:08 AM ^kat^: but i always pour cerial in a parallel fashion
12:08 AM rue_mohr: interesting
12:08 AM rue_mohr: it looks like, we need to add a usb library to get avrdude to work with the dragon.
12:08 AM rue_mohr: I think I'v heard of this
12:09 AM rue_mohr: (stand by, I'm working on an answer)
12:09 AM ^kat^: avrdude.conf ?
12:09 AM rue_mohr: nope
12:09 AM ^kat^: that's why i ordered the usbisp
12:09 AM rue_mohr: I'm working on it
12:10 AM rue_mohr: aparently avrdude has usb challanges on windows, I'm working on how its solved
12:10 AM ^kat^: :-/
12:10 AM * ^kat^ bets it's a dll
12:10 AM rue_mohr: it looks like avrstudio might have installed a conflicting usb driver
12:11 AM rue_mohr: the instructions I found turn into jibberish, I'm looking for new ones
12:12 AM ^kat^: i seem to have winavr, studio 4 and studio 6
12:12 AM ^kat^: no clue what's active
12:12 AM rue_mohr: yup, I'm working on it
12:13 AM rue_mohr: maybe work on something else for a bit and I'll search for an answer
12:13 AM * ^kat^ grabs the food bowl
12:14 AM ^kat^: dinner is gone
12:16 AM rue_mohr: oh, hmm
12:16 AM rue_mohr: it looks like the dragon emulates a serial device
12:17 AM ^kat^: it's on a usb port, which is a serialdevice
12:17 AM rue_mohr: kat, do you mind if I use a shotgun approach here?
12:17 AM ^kat^: ok
12:17 AM ^kat^: as long as you don;t need me to reboot
12:18 AM rue_mohr: lets try avrdude -c dragon_isp -P com5 -p t2313 -e
12:18 AM ^kat^: avrdude: ser_open(): can't open device "\\.\com5": The system cannot find the fi
12:18 AM ^kat^: le specified.
12:18 AM rue_mohr: !?! not the answer I expected....
12:18 AM rue_mohr: ok, allow me some time
12:20 AM rue_mohr: lets try avrdude -c dragon_isp -P usb:xxxx -p t2313 -e
12:20 AM ^kat^: avrdude: usbdev_open(): did not find any (matching) USB device "usb:xxxx"
12:20 AM rue_mohr: then its supposed to search for a device... interesting
12:22 AM ^kat^: heyyyyyyy
12:23 AM rue_mohr: ?
12:23 AM ^kat^: i was looking for disabled usb poprts (none are disabled in DeviceManager), but i found a new entry
12:23 AM ^kat^: Jungo / avr dragon
12:23 AM ^kat^: and jungo / windriver
12:23 AM rue_mohr: ok
12:23 AM ^kat^: shall i disable them?
12:23 AM rue_mohr: no
12:23 AM rue_mohr: but wait a sec
12:24 AM rue_mohr: jungo came up in one of the searches I did
12:24 AM rue_mohr: I think we want jungo / libusb
12:24 AM rue_mohr: any hints?
12:24 AM rue_mohr: I dont know what jungo is
12:25 AM * ^kat^ looks clueless agian, because DM says windriver is functioning normally
12:26 AM rue_mohr: I'm working on it
12:27 AM ^kat^: no jungo in /program files/atmel/
12:27 AM rue_mohr: reading internet, please wait |== 2% |
12:27 AM ^kat^: i should be silent while i wait?
12:28 AM rue_mohr: not if you have ideas, please tell my anyting you find
12:28 AM rue_mohr: reading internet, please wait |== 2.000001% |
12:29 AM ^kat^: bleeve itornot, the 7805 could use a baby heatsink
12:33 AM ^kat^: there is no *jungo* in /Program Files/ ,, or in c:/
12:33 AM rue_mohr: in https://awtfy.com/2012/03/29/hardware-debugging-the-arduino-using-eclipse-and-the-avr-dragon/ ...
12:33 AM rue_mohr: If you install one of your AVR Studio (v4 or v5), it will install the AVR Dragon USB driver. That’s great. The Dragon works fine in AVR Studio. Problem: nothing else will. Th
12:33 AM rue_mohr: ""
12:33 AM rue_mohr: stand by
12:33 AM rue_mohr: ok
12:33 AM rue_mohr: ok
12:34 AM ^kat^: i disabled those two "devices", the green lite went out onthe STK200 , i re-ran the dos commands, no changes
12:34 AM rue_mohr: the big bird tells me we will have a download issue
12:34 AM rue_mohr: we need to install libusb-win32, according tot his
12:35 AM rue_mohr: ah, hmm
12:35 AM rue_mohr: stale link
12:36 AM ^kat^: i have a D:\AVR-stuff\utils\libusb\bin
12:36 AM rue_mohr: stand by
12:37 AM rue_mohr: ok
12:38 AM ^kat^: D:\AVR-stuff\utils\libusb\bin>dir /b
12:38 AM ^kat^: avrisp2.cat
12:38 AM ^kat^: avrisp2.inf
12:38 AM ^kat^: avrisp2_x64.cat
12:38 AM ^kat^: inf-wizard.exe
12:38 AM ^kat^: install-filter.exe
12:38 AM ^kat^: jtagice2.cat
12:38 AM ^kat^: jtagice2.inf
12:38 AM ^kat^: jtagice2_x64.cat
12:38 AM ^kat^: libusb0.dll
12:38 AM ^kat^: libusb0.sys
12:38 AM ^kat^: libusb0_x64.dll
12:38 AM ^kat^: libusb0_x64.sys
12:38 AM ^kat^: testlibusb-win.exe
12:38 AM rue_mohr: uh
12:39 AM ^kat^: not my fault, iirc Tom gave me the /avrstuff/
12:39 AM rue_mohr: ok
12:40 AM rue_mohr: lets see how this does
12:40 AM rue_mohr: ...
12:40 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/avr/avrdude-windows/libusb-win32-bin-1.2.6.0.zip
12:40 AM rue_mohr: would you like to wget that?
12:40 AM ^kat^: very much
12:40 AM ^kat^: where's it go?
12:40 AM rue_mohr: my understanding is that if you install that while the dragon is plugged in, it will 'take over' the driverness for the dragon, which will fix the issue
12:41 AM rue_mohr: it should have an installer
12:41 AM rue_mohr: I'm going to look now
12:42 AM rue_mohr: if unzip dosn't automatcally run it, under bin/ there is a inf-wizard.exe
12:42 AM rue_mohr: we are looking for filter-win
12:42 AM rue_mohr: I cant run it, so I'm a little blind
12:43 AM ^kat^: inf-wizard.exe ?
12:43 AM rue_mohr: or, if you can directly, under x86 there is a install-filter-win.exe
12:44 AM rue_mohr: which I beleive is the larger goal
12:44 AM rue_mohr: brb
12:44 AM ^kat^: it wants to write a AVR_Dragon.inf somewhere
12:47 AM ^kat^: the other .inf are all in D:\AVR-stuff\utils\libusb\bin
12:49 AM ^kat^: ; Older versions of this .inf file installed filter drivers. They are not
12:49 AM ^kat^: ; needed any more and must be removed
12:49 AM ^kat^: [libusb_del_reg_hw]
12:49 AM ^kat^: HKR,,LowerFilters
12:49 AM ^kat^: HKR,,UpperFilters
12:49 AM ^kat^: ???
12:49 AM rue_mohr: back
12:49 AM rue_mohr: ok, would you like to put it in there?
12:49 AM ^kat^: i have no preferences
12:49 AM rue_mohr: I suspect then, we set the dragon to use the new .inf as a driver
12:50 AM ^kat^: where would you like me to put it?
12:50 AM rue_mohr: c:/its_rues_fault/
12:50 AM ^kat^: seriously?
12:50 AM rue_mohr: unless you have a better preference
12:51 AM rue_mohr: casue, if it all goes up in flames, you can just clear out that folder :)
12:51 AM rue_mohr: if you have an idea you like more, go for it
12:51 AM ^kat^: but if it works, then i have that folder around forever
12:51 AM rue_mohr: and isn't it true
12:51 AM rue_mohr: :)
12:52 AM ^kat^: installing driver, please wait
12:52 AM * rue_mohr WAITS!
12:52 AM ^kat^: successffuull
12:53 AM rue_mohr: 8-| ohhhhh.... is it gonna work?
12:53 AM rue_mohr: so, can you set the dragon to use that as the driver then?
12:53 AM ^kat^: no
12:53 AM rue_mohr: *blink*
12:53 AM rue_mohr: it wont take it?
12:54 AM * ^kat^ leans over and speaks toit slowly
12:54 AM ^kat^: it doesn;t do anything
12:54 AM * ^kat^ ponders one of the atmel studios
12:54 AM rue_mohr: ok, I need to work out how to debug this
12:54 AM rue_mohr: so
12:55 AM Tom_L: drivers in windows are a pita with avr programmers
12:55 AM rue_mohr: the command we want to make work is avrdude -c dragon_isp -P usb -p t2313 -e
12:55 AM ^kat^: well, this is interesting, canot find either atmel studio
12:55 AM rue_mohr: and we need to manipulate the system till that command works
12:55 AM Tom_L: and if she installs studio that will interfere with avrdude
12:56 AM rue_mohr: kat lets now worry about studio, if what we are doing works, studio wont
12:56 AM Tom_L: well, it will work
12:56 AM Tom_L: but rue likes avrdude better
12:56 AM rue_mohr: Tom_L, to get avrdude, you have to install studio, so this is par for the course
12:56 AM ^kat^: there is no exe anymore in C:\Program Files\Atmel\Atmel Software Framework\3.5.0.186
12:57 AM Tom_L: wtf are you talking about? avrdude isn't part of studio
12:57 AM rue_mohr: lets not get distracted
12:57 AM rue_mohr: what we need to work out now, is NOT studio, but how to adjust drivers to get avrdude to work
12:57 AM Tom_L: you can get a good working avrdude from ardweenine install
12:58 AM rue_mohr: thats another branch I'd like to not go to right now
12:58 AM ^kat^: well, it seems to have deleted avrstudio.exe
12:58 AM rue_mohr: I'd like to work with what we have, in a forward direction
12:58 AM ^kat^: so i canot use that to tell the dragon anything
12:58 AM rue_mohr: thats ok kat
12:58 AM Tom_L: carry on, i'm goin to sleep
12:58 AM rue_mohr: gnight
12:59 AM ^kat^: gite
12:59 AM ^kat^: ngh
01:02 AM rue_mohr: ok kat, I see something new
01:02 AM rue_mohr: lets do this, remember that inf-wizard?
01:02 AM rue_mohr: apparently it will list the dragon if we run it
01:02 AM ^kat^: yeas
01:02 AM ^kat^: it did
01:02 AM ^kat^: didn;t list much
01:02 AM rue_mohr: ah, ok, so, supposedly its installed soemthing specific for the dragon?
01:02 AM ^kat^: yeas, i guess
01:02 AM rue_mohr: ok
01:02 AM rue_mohr: so, if I can ask this, is the dragon disabled in the device manager?
01:02 AM ^kat^: umm, it *deleted* junkgo/avr_dragon from the device manager
01:02 AM ^kat^: jngo/windriver is still there
01:02 AM rue_mohr: ok
01:02 AM ^kat^: thre is now a new
01:02 AM rue_mohr: yes yes!
01:02 AM ^kat^: libusb-win32 devices / AVR Dragon
01:02 AM rue_mohr: libusb /dragon?
01:02 AM rue_mohr: sweeet
01:03 AM ^kat^: 'YEEEEEEEEESSS!!!!' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
01:03 AM ^kat^: operable program or batch file.
01:04 AM ^kat^: damn, and clogged didn;t logged it
01:04 AM rue_mohr: I'vm gonna be doing a victory dance for about 5 mins if you dont mind...
01:04 AM zhanx: wait what
01:04 AM ^kat^: D:\AVR-stuff\bin>Tiggr, thank you
01:04 AM ^kat^: yes kat?
01:04 AM ^kat^: D:\AVR-stuff\bin>
01:05 AM zhanx: !log mark
01:05 AM ^kat^: zhanx, clog was afk during rue's victory in dealing windows it's due
01:06 AM zhanx: i log also
01:06 AM ^kat^: question, does this mean the dongle i bought today is now worthless?
01:06 AM ^kat^: i log also
01:06 AM zhanx: yes
01:07 AM rue_mohr: kat no, the other dongle is backup
01:07 AM ^kat^: please wait, ot finished uttering cusswords
01:07 AM rue_mohr: its smaller too
01:08 AM ^kat^: but it will respond to the dragon commands?
01:08 AM rue_mohr: the drivers we put in will work with it tooo
01:08 AM ^kat^: oh, kool
01:08 AM rue_mohr: you just change dragon_isp to the name of the other programmer
01:08 AM rue_mohr: ok, so
01:08 AM rue_mohr: question
01:08 AM rue_mohr: WHAT pin, is that led attached to!?
01:09 AM ^kat^: NONE !!! that's the beauty of it :-))
01:09 AM rue_mohr: ok, what pin can you attach it to?
01:10 AM ^kat^: any, another beauty of it :-)
01:10 AM rue_mohr: ok stand by...
01:10 AM ^kat^: it is wired down to gnd, so to turn on need pullup
01:10 AM rue_mohr: er
01:11 AM rue_mohr: I think the 2313 uses totempole outputs
01:11 AM ^kat^: lucky choice, eh?
01:12 AM rue_mohr: its got a series resistor? (yes - totem)
01:12 AM ^kat^: the led i attached has a series resistor
01:12 AM ^kat^: 1k
01:12 AM rue_mohr: could you please link me with the picture of your board
01:16 AM ^kat^: white led, pretty bright
01:16 AM rue_mohr: oo yea those are, even at like 0.25ma
01:16 AM ^kat^: no, buti can taka another pic,, what positon would you like the board to be posed in?
01:16 AM ^kat^: with jumper to led, led on?
01:16 AM rue_mohr: ok
01:18 AM ^kat^: camera is being slow uploading the dir listing
01:18 AM rue_mohr: np
01:18 AM ^kat^: pic with led and not led, it's quite bright
01:18 AM rue_mohr: I'm writing a test
01:18 AM ^kat^: i was too lazy to dim the brighness
01:20 AM rue_mohr: would it be brightness if it was dimmed?
01:20 AM rue_mohr: or would it be dimmness?
01:20 AM ^kat^: want hi rez or 800x?
01:20 AM rue_mohr: 800 is ok
01:23 AM ^kat^: http://DesignerThinking.com/images/DSCF7094m.jpg
01:23 AM ^kat^: http://DesignerThinking.com/images/DSCF7092m.jpg
01:24 AM rue_mohr: ok, I'd like to hook the led up to pin
01:24 AM rue_mohr: ...
01:24 AM rue_mohr: 12
01:24 AM ^kat^: like i said, the goal was a almost universal for 14-20 pins, and the 8pin, and a dedicated 40pin
01:24 AM rue_mohr: I think you did a good job
01:25 AM ^kat^: ok, iso n pin 11
01:26 AM rue_mohr: ok, please stand by
01:26 AM ^kat^: no smoke
01:27 AM rue_mohr: ok, I'm going to try untested code, I appologize if it dosn't work
01:27 AM rue_mohr: (please stand by)
01:28 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/avr/2313flashB0.hex
01:29 AM ^kat^: if it works, i wanna put in buffers on all pins, driving red/grn leds
01:29 AM rue_mohr: if you could wget that, to somewhere you can access it with avrdude
01:29 AM ^kat^: done
01:30 AM ^kat^: it's in D:\AVR-stuff\
01:30 AM rue_mohr: and try avrdude -c dragon_isp -P usb -p t2313 -e -U flash:w:2313flashB0.hex
01:31 AM ^kat^: needa path
01:31 AM rue_mohr: I cant tell the default clock rate of the 2313, so if we get it to flash, It might be REALLLY slow
01:31 AM rue_mohr: and try avrdude -c dragon_isp -P usb -p t2313 -e -U flash:w:D:\AVR-stuff\2313flashB0.hex
01:31 AM rue_mohr: ?
01:31 AM ^kat^: it doesn't likew a full path
01:32 AM rue_mohr: ooh cause of the colon
01:32 AM rue_mohr: and try avrdude -c dragon_isp -P usb -p t2313 -e -U flash:w:"D:\AVR-stuff\2313flashB0.hex"
01:32 AM ^kat^: it's tripping on it's face on the D:
01:32 AM rue_mohr: maybe?
01:32 AM ^kat^: same
01:32 AM ^kat^: avrdude: invalid file format '\AVR-stuff\2313flashB0.hex' in update specifier
01:32 AM ^kat^: avrdude: error parsing update operation 'flash:w:D:\AVR-stuff\2313flashB0.hex'
01:33 AM ^kat^: same for ' as "
01:33 AM rue_mohr: ok, can you do it the other way around, from the D:/avr-stuff/ and run avrdude with a path?
01:34 AM rue_mohr: I'v never actaully used a path to the .hex file
01:34 AM ^kat^: same
01:34 AM ^kat^: wait
01:34 AM rue_mohr: if your in the d:/avr-stuff, its a local file, you dont need the path...
01:35 AM ^kat^: BLINKY LITES
01:35 AM rue_mohr: and try c:\I-dunno-kat\avrdude -c dragon_isp -P usb -p t2313 -e -U flash:w:2313flashB0.hex
01:35 AM ^kat^:
01:35 AM rue_mohr: SWEEEET
01:35 AM ^kat^: BLINKY LITES
01:35 AM ^kat^:
01:35 AM ^kat^: BLINKY LITES
01:35 AM rue_mohr: did I hit about 1hz?
01:36 AM ^kat^: about, yeas
01:36 AM rue_mohr: sweeeet
01:36 AM ^kat^: but, i cannot make headsor tails of 2313flashB0.hex
01:36 AM rue_mohr: ok, so, shall we call it a night?
01:36 AM rue_mohr: its an intel hex file
01:36 AM ^kat^: ok
01:36 AM rue_mohr: just an ascii binary lump
01:36 AM rue_mohr: next we can make some assembler code
01:37 AM rue_mohr: so, if you want to modify your board with red/green lights, and read up on the avr instruction set
01:37 AM ^kat^: that will be later, not this week
01:37 AM rue_mohr: ok
01:37 AM rue_mohr: we did good
01:37 AM ^kat^: maybe not next week too, got anotehr dentist appt Monday
01:37 AM rue_mohr: you should be able to pull the programming cable and maintain blinkyness
01:38 AM rue_mohr: oh no...
01:38 AM rue_mohr: pulling them one at a time!?
01:38 AM ^kat^: no, cleaning next
01:38 AM rue_mohr: ok
01:38 AM ^kat^: pulled cable, still blinking
01:38 AM rue_mohr: :)))
01:39 AM rue_mohr: the only reason it would stop is if the /reset line wasn't pulled up
01:39 AM rue_mohr: (pin 1)
01:39 AM ^kat^: cycled the +5 , still blinking
01:39 AM rue_mohr: its using an internal oscillator, I'm not sure if its 4Mhz or 8Mhz
01:39 AM rue_mohr: its flash, so in 20yrs or so it might go a bit funkey
01:39 AM ^kat^: hmm, pin 1 is 4.42
01:40 AM rue_mohr: sounds good
01:40 AM ^kat^: pin 20 is 5.00
01:40 AM ^kat^: why is pin 1 4.42?
01:40 AM rue_mohr: iirc 1 is anything over 0.15V
01:40 AM rue_mohr: 10k resistor?
01:40 AM rue_mohr: with a bit of current?
01:40 AM rue_mohr: I cant recall what we did
01:40 AM ^kat^: i didn;t put in a 10k
01:41 AM rue_mohr: ok, its suggested to have a 10k pullup on reset
01:41 AM ^kat^: unless it's hidden unde that socket
01:41 AM rue_mohr: I'm going to go get supper, biab
01:41 AM * ^kat^ kills power so she can lift the chip
01:42 AM ^kat^: nope, no ersistor
01:42 AM ^kat^: do have a wire on it, dunno where it goes
01:43 AM ^kat^: goes back to pin 5 or 6 on the header
01:44 AM rue_mohr: reset is used during programming to get the chip into programming mode
01:44 AM ^kat^: 5
01:44 AM rue_mohr: iir you clock bits in while reset is low and it magically enters progrmming mode
01:45 AM ^kat^: pin 5 of dip-6 header is reset
01:46 AM rue_mohr: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/6pin_isp.jpg
01:46 AM rue_mohr: yes
01:47 AM ^kat^: that is what i was going by
01:47 AM ^kat^: should i put a 10k on it anyhow?
01:48 AM ^kat^: but
01:48 AM ^kat^: nvm
01:48 AM rue_mohr: you can, it will ensure that it'll work when not on the programmer
01:48 AM rue_mohr: the programmer will not care about the 10k
01:48 AM ^kat^: ok
01:49 AM rue_mohr: I'll give you some random assembelr to look at ok?
01:50 AM ^kat^: ok
01:51 AM ^kat^: some day i should maybe get a wallmount drawer box of standard 1/4 watt resistors
01:51 AM ^kat^: stop using baggies in a cardboard box, and reels
01:52 AM ^kat^: i made no improvemenst in the Dog Era
01:52 AM ^kat^: been seeing a lot of pickup trucks and trailers over there yesterday and today
01:53 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/avr/flashled_t13.asm
01:53 AM rue_mohr: just for refference
01:54 AM ^kat^: got
01:54 AM rue_mohr: exec starts at 0000
01:54 AM rue_mohr: I like to name intel like registers, technically its more like a 6502
01:55 AM rue_mohr: registers 0 thru 15 are special
01:55 AM ^kat^: sheeeeeeeeeeeesh
01:57 AM rue_mohr: maybe your neighbours got ill drinking the town water and died
01:57 AM rue_mohr: ?
01:57 AM ^kat^: you haveto use the 3 registers in a guesswork way to get the toggle delay??
01:57 AM rue_mohr: _I_ do, my mind is X86
01:58 AM rue_mohr: well intel anyhow
01:58 AM rue_mohr: (8080 z80, x86...)
01:58 AM rue_mohr: I dont think well in motorola mode (6502 6800, 68hc11...)
01:58 AM ^kat^: it sold
01:59 AM ^kat^: it has no timer inside to trip the toggle?
01:59 AM rue_mohr: it has lots
01:59 AM rue_mohr: but thats a really basic test code
02:00 AM ^kat^: Pell City, AL 35125
02:00 AM ^kat^: 2 beds 1 bath 980 sqft
02:00 AM ^kat^: Sold: $27,000
02:00 AM ^kat^: Sold on 04/13/18
02:00 AM rue_mohr: I used to just code in asm, but I moved to C after not long
02:00 AM rue_mohr: isn't it a few acres?
02:01 AM ^kat^: it's a wreck, has a good aluminum roof, the rest of the house is,,, well, it;s a trailer, right, floor, walls, and ceiling are listed as "unfinished"
02:01 AM ^kat^: 3 acres, i think
02:01 AM rue_mohr: isn't it a few acres?
02:01 AM rue_mohr: wow
02:01 AM rue_mohr: I have 0.5 acres here, evaluated at 500k
02:01 AM * ^kat^ fain......<crash>
02:01 AM rue_mohr: I could have damn near bought that place with my reserve funds
02:02 AM rue_mohr: but I suppose 1 bedroom dosn't get $500/mo over there
02:03 AM ^kat^: 2002 mobile home
02:03 AM rue_mohr: mines 197?
02:03 AM rue_mohr: prolly 3
02:03 AM ^kat^: allt eh siding was rippd off, osb nailed up, and covered in black plastic sheet, mostly ripped off now
02:04 AM rue_mohr: mine had bright orange and green carpet origionally
02:04 AM ^kat^: one small window high up in kitches, one about 1x1 ft up at the ceiling in the living room
02:04 AM rue_mohr: there's bits of it trapped under the walls
02:04 AM rue_mohr: cause, they put the flooring down, then put the walls on top
02:04 AM ^kat^: they had a grey cat at one time, i could smell the cigarrette smoke on it from over 10 ft away
02:04 AM rue_mohr: poor thing
02:05 AM * rue_mohr tires to imagine 3 acres
02:05 AM rue_mohr: is it flat?
02:06 AM ^kat^: gentle slope, small level for parking
02:06 AM rue_mohr: I'd call my place an aggressive slope
02:06 AM rue_mohr: sometimes, the tires on the truck spin trying to get up the driveway
02:06 AM rue_mohr: over the 40 or 50', it goes up about 5'
02:07 AM rue_mohr: maybe I should just keep more junk in the back of the truck
02:08 AM ^kat^: for 80% of that property, it slopes maybe 15 ft, the very back drops another 15ft to a creek, then back up 10and stops
02:08 AM rue_mohr: ~and its got a creek~...
02:08 AM ^kat^: on the otehr paw, you step 8ft outside my cellar door, and you are hovering, soon to fall and roll 70ft
02:08 AM rue_mohr: do they care if you build next to the creek?
02:09 AM ^kat^: they prolly do, i haven;t, but i have run a pip and place for a baby 1 .. 3 gal/min pump
02:09 AM rue_mohr: our building depts insist you stay about 60' back from creeks, which, in some cases, is the whole lot
02:10 AM ^kat^: other than the stream bed, it's extremely steep when you get down there
02:10 AM rue_mohr: iirc you kinda have a raveen
02:10 AM rue_mohr: e
02:10 AM * rue_mohr sprinkles some a's just incase
02:11 AM ^kat^: onl;y 40 ft or so on the property edge is it sloping level, then at 35 ft it drops 15 ft in 15 ft
02:11 AM ^kat^: yeas, after that 40ft from the fence, it's a ravine
02:11 AM ^kat^: i had pics of it up
02:11 AM rue_mohr: I recall
02:12 AM rue_mohr: your driveway is kinda a switchback isn't it?
02:13 AM ^kat^: yeas, but isn't now, due to various things, i put up the barn right in front of the house, so driving past the switchback isn;t gonna happen
02:13 AM rue_mohr: ah
02:13 AM rue_mohr: 2am?
02:13 AM ^kat^: 2:15
02:13 AM ^kat^: thank you rue
02:14 AM rue_mohr: or 2:12 with ntp correction?
02:14 AM rue_mohr: np!
02:14 AM rue_mohr: I'm glad we got it!
02:14 AM ^kat^: last checked ntp on Tiggr5 a few days ago
02:14 AM ^kat^: brb, ggt
02:14 AM rue_mohr: gnight
02:16 AM rue_mohr: CCR Bootleg
02:17 AM rue_mohr: wait a min, which song has a bullfrog calling me?
02:17 AM ^kat^: in the vic20 and c64
02:17 AM rue_mohr: yes?
02:17 AM ^kat^: i could poke the machine code for LDA
02:17 AM ^kat^: then the value or address(s)
02:17 AM ^kat^: is being used to that simple going to help or hurt me in avr?
02:18 AM rue_mohr: its flash program space, a bit involved to modify
02:18 AM rue_mohr: you have to erase and rewrite it a page at a time (iirc)
02:18 AM ^kat^: i assume i willneed to "poke" the whole program at once
02:18 AM ^kat^: yeas
02:18 AM ^kat^: but thep rogram
02:20 AM rue_mohr: best process is to write the program at once, and upload the whole thing
02:20 AM ^kat^: ldi B, 3 ; load count1 with decimal 200
02:20 AM ^kat^: i do not see the 200
02:20 AM ^kat^: looks like it loaded with 3
02:20 AM rue_mohr: :) correct,
02:20 AM rue_mohr: apparently the code outpaced the comments
02:20 AM * rue_mohr cheesy grin
02:20 AM ^kat^: oh, it is a -20 chip
02:21 AM rue_mohr: up to 20Mhz likley
02:21 AM ^kat^: <_< o_o >_>
02:22 AM ^kat^: ; is commented out the whole line?
02:22 AM rue_mohr: attypePARTNO-speed
02:22 AM rue_mohr: yes, ; comments out remainder of line
02:22 AM ^kat^: the .hex file does not have the comments, right?
02:22 AM rue_mohr: correct, just machine code
02:23 AM rue_mohr: no need to look up opcodes
02:23 AM ^kat^: how is
02:23 AM ^kat^: ; Set up io ports
02:23 AM ^kat^: ldi A, (0<<PORTB5)|(0<<PORTB4)|(0<<PORTB3)|(1<<PORTB2)|(0<<PORTB1)|(0<<PORTB0)
02:23 AM ^kat^: i'd think it would read (0>>PORTB5)
02:24 AM rue_mohr: becasue the right hand mess resolves to a static value, it just uses the static value
02:24 AM rue_mohr: I build the bitmask by shifting 1s or 0s into the right places
02:24 AM rue_mohr: it makes it easyo to edit
02:25 AM ^kat^: can you just out PORTB, A_Value ?
02:25 AM ^kat^: out PORTB, 12 ?
02:25 AM rue_mohr: iirc, no, you have to run it thru a register
02:25 AM rue_mohr: lda value
02:25 AM rue_mohr: out port, value
02:25 AM rue_mohr: but its been a while
02:25 AM ^kat^: wiersd
02:26 AM rue_mohr: the instruction pdf will be a better ref than me right now
02:26 AM ^kat^: ok, will read it when i wake up too
02:27 AM rue_mohr: next step I suggest we write some code and set it up so you can compile it into your own .hex file
02:27 AM * ^kat^ looks forwards to knowing when the light are on upstairs, or the door is open to the barn, or the roof drainis leakng again
02:27 AM rue_mohr: compile/assemble
02:27 AM ^kat^: yeas
02:27 AM rue_mohr: what kinda screen is on the tuner boxes?
02:28 AM rue_mohr: led 7seg or better?
02:28 AM ^kat^: 6 1.2 inch tall orange 7-seg
02:28 AM rue_mohr: :/
02:28 AM ^kat^: led, not lcd
02:28 AM rue_mohr: was kinda hoping for a text lcd
02:28 AM rue_mohr: ok
02:29 AM ^kat^: they prolly put the good test on the tv screen
02:29 AM ^kat^: teXt
02:29 AM rue_mohr: mmm
02:29 AM rue_mohr: gotz more pixelz
02:29 AM rue_mohr: the 7seg can still say deadbeef
02:30 AM rue_mohr: or help, or hello, or SLEEP
02:30 AM ^kat^: my digital/ntsc converter box's frot panels is useless, everything goes to the tv screen
02:30 AM * rue_mohr nods
02:30 AM ^kat^: it has a power on led
02:31 AM ^kat^: on/off, channel up/down , everthing else is on the remote and shown n the tv
02:31 AM rue_mohr: new things use backwards leds, it is backwards? on when the device is off, and off when the device is on?
02:31 AM rue_mohr: hate it
02:32 AM rue_mohr: leads to a lot of "WELL IS IT ON OR OFF!!?!?!?!"
02:32 AM ^kat^: this one is red/off green/on, unit is just as warm on or off
02:32 AM rue_mohr: ah
02:32 AM rue_mohr: so you have lots of red/green leds
02:33 AM ^kat^: afew,, the "Super A" died, the dvd/vhs died, and the cd player died
02:33 AM ^kat^: power co here is horrible, Sansui died, Marantz died, two fridges dies, Tek 100Mhz portable died, etc etc
02:34 AM ^kat^: they had a sticky line booster and a saw mill that dropped a 200hp motor direct on the line
02:34 AM rue_mohr: needa 240kva power conditioner
02:34 AM rue_mohr: ouch
02:34 AM ^kat^: so brownout city, followed by 145v the rest ofm the day
02:35 AM ^kat^: if you wanted a reliable clock out here, it had to be a car type, or a windup type
02:36 AM ^kat^: i have a "surplus" resonant conditioner, ran way too hot to have inside in summer
02:38 AM ^kat^: all my puters are run on a 2kw invertor
02:38 AM * ^kat^ wavers gnites and goes away
08:11 PM rue_bed: supper machine
08:12 PM rue_bed: corriplast
08:12 PM rue_bed: 2x2 for garden screens
08:24 PM rue_bed: resetup muscle demo
08:26 PM rue_bed: setup a compressor, test
08:26 PM rue_bed: -----
08:26 PM rue_bed: zhanx, how much pressure do you think I can get on an AC compressor with a 1/2hp ac motor?
08:27 PM zhanx: 100 psi at least
08:27 PM rue_bed: todo: build tables for pipe bender
08:27 PM rue_bed: do you think their good to go to 600?
08:27 PM rue_bed: I dont know where refrig compressors stop
08:28 PM zhanx: 150-180 range for running like 500 max
08:28 PM rue_bed: ah, hmm
08:28 PM rue_bed: I was looking at the bottle I have
08:29 PM rue_bed: its not scuba, its more like a fireman tank
08:29 PM rue_bed: I was hoping the stamp would say the volume, but I dont think it goes
08:29 PM rue_bed: seem to be rated to 2015 psi
08:29 PM zhanx: https://imgur.com/a/5Ca4vip
08:29 PM rue_bed: DNE
08:30 PM zhanx: i got some of it done today
08:30 PM rue_bed: oh diff browwer works
08:30 PM zhanx: weird
08:30 PM rue_bed: nice, kinda small
08:31 PM zhanx: 8x8 foot print
08:31 PM rue_bed: tell me layout
08:31 PM rue_bed: mine is 16x12
08:31 PM zhanx: door is to you,
08:31 PM zhanx: left and right of door, cold frames the lenght of it
08:32 PM zhanx: second level will go them but only 1' wide and will wrap around
08:32 PM rue_bed: http://ruemohr.org/%7Eircjunk/house/greenhouse/p1080340.jpg
08:32 PM rue_bed: we dont use it well
08:33 PM zhanx: mine needs to have the cold frames of course due to winter
08:33 PM rue_bed: oh, cold frames IN the greenhouse
08:33 PM rue_bed: ?
08:33 PM zhanx: yep
08:33 PM rue_bed: hmmmm
08:34 PM zhanx: zone 5b at higher elevation
08:34 PM zhanx: Also will be adding a rocket stove with under bed lines to heat it
08:34 PM rue_bed: http://ruemohr.org/%7Eircjunk/house/greenhouse/p1080342.jpg
08:34 PM rue_bed: I
08:34 PM rue_bed: 'm gonna be putting a clear front on it this month
08:34 PM rue_bed: convection water?
08:35 PM zhanx: yours is shaded
08:35 PM zhanx: yeo
08:35 PM zhanx: yep
08:35 PM rue_bed: in summer yea
08:35 PM rue_bed: keeps it from getitng to hot in summer
08:35 PM rue_bed: no shade in winter
08:35 PM rue_bed: :)
08:35 PM zhanx: does it stay warm enough to grow in the winter?
08:35 PM rue_bed: a saw adjusts the balance
08:35 PM rue_bed: no
08:36 PM rue_bed: thats why I like your coldframe idea
08:36 PM zhanx: ah, ok
08:36 PM rue_bed: the middle of the roof opens
08:37 PM zhanx: cold frames with a rocket stove / thermal mass heater will extend my season as, mine is in an open field
08:37 PM rue_bed: yea
08:37 PM rue_bed: hmmm, rocket stove
08:37 PM rue_bed: thermal mass
08:37 PM rue_bed: I wonder if I can put a tank under that greenhouse
08:37 PM rue_bed: or if those roots are already too far in
08:38 PM rue_bed: the trees have a special history
08:38 PM rue_bed: descendents of the last of a cutting from a large maple forrest thats gone now
08:39 PM rue_bed: http://ruemohr.org/%7Eircjunk/house/greenhouse/p1080321.jpg
08:39 PM rue_bed: thast before the new roof
08:40 PM zhanx: when it was a shed
08:41 PM rue_bed: nope, alwasy been a greenhouse
08:41 PM zhanx: k
08:41 PM rue_bed: they just made it with translucent sheet
08:41 PM rue_bed: its uv rated, that stuff is over 25 years old and its still good
08:41 PM zhanx: i want to get some sheeting like you have next year for the roof
08:41 PM rue_bed: $$$
08:42 PM zhanx: yea its why i did plastic this year
08:42 PM rue_bed: I need to make about $1000 from that greenhouse to break even
08:42 PM zhanx: let me get it paying the food bill before i upgrade it
08:42 PM rue_bed: mmm
08:42 PM rue_bed: I'm just writing it off as insanity
08:42 PM rue_bed: to which I'm putting another $200 into a clear front
08:43 PM rue_bed: -insanity-
08:43 PM rue_bed: but rocket stove...
08:43 PM zhanx: Well if i can keep it warm all winter. I can save 3 dollars a day on lettuce
08:43 PM rue_bed: I dont eat luttuce
08:43 PM rue_bed: but I'm sure someone does
08:43 PM zhanx: well grow what you eat
08:44 PM zhanx: I grow a mix of it
08:44 PM rue_bed: or vv?
08:44 PM rue_bed: potatoes
08:44 PM rue_bed: how about aquaponic potatoes?
08:44 PM zhanx: potatoes in the winter, now you make be able to do that
08:45 PM rue_bed: 4000w of grow lights?
08:45 PM zhanx: i dont need grow lights as my garden faces south and get 7 hours of day light in the winter
08:46 PM rue_bed: lot issurrounded by trees
08:46 PM rue_bed: but... this might be a datalogger project
08:46 PM zhanx: yep
08:46 PM zhanx: log this winter for next
09:05 PM rue_mohr: hmm
09:05 PM rue_mohr: need a solar panel for the greenhouse
09:06 PM rue_mohr: maybe the power line I ran should have stopped off at the greenouse
09:06 PM zhanx: i have a small solar panel i got for free
09:07 PM rue_mohr: <rue_bed> supper machine
09:07 PM rue_mohr: <rue_bed> corriplast
09:07 PM rue_mohr: <rue_bed> 2x2 for garden screens
09:07 PM rue_mohr: <rue_bed> resetup muscle demo
09:07 PM rue_mohr: <rue_bed> setup a compressor, test
09:07 PM rue_mohr: build tables for pipe bender
09:07 PM zhanx: you could just run some cat 5 cable and run the green house on dc voltage
09:07 PM rue_mohr: I know a guy with soem small panels I might be able to buy off him
09:50 PM zhanx: rue_mohr: what about geothermal heating for you with heat pipes
10:56 PM rue_mohr: naa
10:56 PM rue_mohr: kat
10:57 PM rue_mohr: can your windows run 64 bit apps?
10:57 PM katsmeow: not the desktop boxes
10:57 PM katsmeow: the laptop is 64bit Vista
10:57 PM katsmeow: and hard to use
10:58 PM rue_mohr: every freaking presompiled gavrasm for windows is 64 bit
10:59 PM rue_mohr: that I can find so far
10:59 PM katsmeow: what's a gavrasm ?
10:59 PM rue_mohr: an avr assembler I like
11:00 PM rue_mohr: and it dosn't make sense, everything is labeled 64 bit all the way back for windows
11:00 PM rue_mohr: I think its lies
11:02 PM rue_mohr: would you like to try installing it and see?
11:03 PM katsmeow: and nuke the puter? no
11:03 PM katsmeow: ak, macine making noise
11:04 PM rue_mohr: http://www.avr-asm-tutorial.net/gavrasm/v33/gavrasm_win_en_33.zip
11:04 PM rue_mohr: I think thats 32 bit version
11:05 PM rue_mohr: and its newer than the one I ahve on linux
11:08 PM katsmeow: bak
11:08 PM katsmeow: washing machine sounds like it's jumping teeths, hopefully the agitator, it sounds plastic and resonanty
11:09 PM rue_mohr: I had to replace the dogs in mine
11:09 PM katsmeow: i'll saw the top off it and pour it fillof resin if that's what it takes
11:09 PM rue_mohr: its only 25 yrs old
11:09 PM katsmeow: but ot repairing teeths in the gearbox under it
11:17 PM Tom_L: rue_mohr, what was the one i pointed to?
11:17 PM Tom_L: i thought it was 32bit
11:19 PM katsmeow: i think i got mine in 1992
11:19 PM katsmeow: bought it before i even had any walls and a roof of this house to put it in
11:22 PM katsmeow: http://www.avr-asm-tutorial.net/gavrasm/v33/gavrasm_win_en_33.zip is 404
11:23 PM Tom_L: what was it?
11:24 PM katsmeow: [11:06:pm] <rue_mohr> I think thats 32 bit version
11:24 PM katsmeow: [11:06:pm] <rue_mohr> and its newer than the one I ahve on linux
11:24 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/avr/studio/winavr341/
11:26 PM Tom_L: should have avrasm in it
11:27 PM katsmeow: uuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh rue replaced the avr win driver for the stk200 last nite, sot he led was blinkin, and we danced and howled at the moon
11:27 PM Tom_L: yeah i heard it from here
11:28 PM katsmeow: i have the zip you sent me, it's most f /avr_stuff/ , and i have avr studio 4 and 6
11:28 PM katsmeow: but i ned something rue is fluent in, so i may learn from him and be wise in these things
11:28 PM Tom_L: i wouldn't install studio again, it will mess up the usb driver
11:29 PM Tom_L: that tool chain is basically the same as what he uses
11:29 PM Tom_L: i've got some batch files you can modify to use for your asm projects too
11:29 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/avr/tiny10/test/
11:30 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/avr/atmega32U4/asm/
11:30 PM Tom_L: the avrbuild.bat
11:30 PM katsmeow: i do not see anything in what i have that smells like an assembler
11:31 PM katsmeow: avr-toolchain-installer-3.4.1.1195-win32.win32.x86.exe 2016-12-11 02:37 96M ??
11:31 PM * katsmeow pokes rue
11:31 PM Tom_L: i'd install the one from my site
11:31 PM Tom_L: i think i'm using it
11:31 PM katsmeow: i have a C:\Program Files\Atmel\Atmel Software Framework\3.5.0.186
11:33 PM katsmeow: Tom, what is the nae of the Atmel assembler?
11:33 PM katsmeow: naMe
11:33 PM Tom_L: i don't know
11:33 PM Tom_L: i know later ones they used avrgcc
11:33 PM Tom_L: which has an assembler
11:34 PM katsmeow: i has g++.exe and c++.exe
11:34 PM Tom_L: maybe avrasm2.exe
11:34 PM katsmeow: and a gcc.exe
11:34 PM katsmeow: you gave them to me
11:34 PM Tom_L: it's been to long for me to remember
11:35 PM katsmeow: hmm, sadly, clicking on them pops a dos console for 0.23 seconds, and otehrside did nothing
11:35 PM katsmeow: ditto c++.exe
11:35 PM Tom_L: run them from a dos shell
11:35 PM Tom_L: that's what i did
11:36 PM katsmeow: D:\AVR-stuff\avr\bin>gcc.exe
11:36 PM katsmeow: gcc.exe: no input files
11:36 PM katsmeow: D:\AVR-stuff\avr\bin>gcc.exe help
11:36 PM katsmeow: gcc.exe: help: No such file or directory
11:36 PM katsmeow: gcc.exe: no input files
11:37 PM Tom_L: i may have used studio 4 but if you install it tell it not to install jungo drives or it will mess up your avrdude stuff
11:37 PM Tom_L: rue prefers using avrgcc and avrdude
11:37 PM Tom_L: i've done it both ways
11:38 PM katsmeow: looks likei have gcc in an avr dir, and it seems to work, if i knew it's desires
11:38 PM Tom_L: gcc is for c files
11:38 PM Tom_L: but it should also have an asm assembler
11:38 PM katsmeow: ah, a /gcc-4.3.2/ doc folder
11:38 PM Tom_L: as well as ++
11:39 PM Tom_L: rue's kept up on it but i haven't
11:39 PM katsmeow: D:\AVR-stuff\doc>dir /B
11:39 PM katsmeow: avarice
11:39 PM katsmeow: avr-libc
11:39 PM katsmeow: avrdude
11:39 PM katsmeow: binutils
11:39 PM katsmeow: gcc
11:39 PM katsmeow: gdb
11:39 PM katsmeow: GNU Manuals Online.url
11:39 PM katsmeow: simulavr
11:39 PM katsmeow: splint
11:39 PM katsmeow: srecord
11:39 PM katsmeow: WinAVR.url
11:40 PM Tom_L: the asm files on my pc i must have used studio 4 because they have project files associated with them
11:40 PM * katsmeow is a lil confused and would prefer if you two agreed on something for me to do
11:41 PM Tom_L: you should wait and let rue help
11:41 PM Tom_L: he got you goin last night and i don't wanna mess it up
11:41 PM katsmeow: i used peek and poke to code 8k of 6502 , and to modify and tie into the 8k basic and 8k kernal
11:42 PM Tom_L: do you have the asm manual?
11:42 PM katsmeow: it was easier than learning the addressing modesi didn;t need
11:42 PM katsmeow: no
11:42 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/pdf/atmel/AVR_instruction_set.pdf
11:42 PM katsmeow: i have avr readme
11:42 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/pdf/atmel/ASM_User_guide.pdf
11:42 PM katsmeow: oh, yeas, i have that
11:43 PM katsmeow: not that one
11:43 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/avr/
11:43 PM Tom_L: hunt thru there and you will find some asm examples
11:43 PM Tom_L: for different chips
11:43 PM Tom_L: some have interrupts defined and some don't
11:44 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/avr/blinkled/asm/interrupt/led_blink_int.asm
11:44 PM Tom_L: simple blink with interrupts
11:44 PM Tom_L: i think
11:45 PM Tom_L: you may need studio just for the .inc files
11:45 PM Tom_L: they are located in the studio install directory several levels down
11:46 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/avr/atmega32U4/asm/atmega32u4test.asm
11:46 PM Tom_L: that one has a full set of interrupts defined but not all used
11:47 PM katsmeow: wierd you can load the ports only from registers, not ram or immediate
11:48 PM Tom_L: some instructions only work on near? ram because the asm was defined before alot of the big chips were born
11:48 PM Tom_L: i say 'near' for lack of a better term
11:48 PM Tom_L: and i don't remember what they were either... sry
11:49 PM Tom_L: should be ok on the 2313 though
11:52 PM Tom_L: looking over some things here, i think i used studio4 for my asm stuff
11:52 PM * katsmeow nods
11:52 PM Tom_L: it just doesn't support alot of the 'newer' chips
11:53 PM Tom_L: i think it may have been the last 'decent' studio ver
11:53 PM Tom_L: then they went to ms visual platform
11:53 PM katsmeow: new like the AT90s4414 ?
11:53 PM Tom_L: not sure how new that is
11:53 PM katsmeow: i have 200 of those sitting here somewhere
11:53 PM Tom_L: i think anything at90 may not be that new
11:54 PM Tom_L: i dunno for sure
11:54 PM katsmeow: i think it was new as of 1999
11:54 PM Tom_L: did you ever install any studio ver?
11:55 PM katsmeow: yeas, which is how the Junko stuff was installed
11:55 PM Tom_L: ok, in a way that's good
11:55 PM Tom_L: is it still installed?
11:55 PM Tom_L: other than the jungo stuff
11:58 PM katsmeow: i dunno, as of last nite in doing that thing that made rue so happy, there's no exe associated with the avr studio any more
11:58 PM katsmeow: the lonks on the desktop are now bad
11:58 PM katsmeow: lInks
11:58 PM Tom_L: ok
11:59 PM Tom_L: i've still got 4 installed