#garfield Logs
Apr 16 2018
#garfield Calendar
12:00 AM katsmeow: huh?
12:03 AM rue_mohr: I'm thinking of something like that (crown, magnet with hole, counter-crown) [reluctor!] and a linear hall sensor (or two) for the position sensor
12:03 AM rue_mohr: its like an alternator, but with a permentent magnet
12:03 AM rue_mohr: steppers use the same thing for the stator
12:03 AM rue_mohr: kinda
12:03 AM katsmeow: i have a ple of tiny-to-92 hall sensors, very not-sensitive
12:03 AM rue_mohr: anyhow, I got some linear halls for it
12:03 AM katsmeow: 17/64 is .2656
12:03 AM rue_mohr: I'll play
12:03 AM rue_mohr: units 7mm inch
12:03 AM rue_mohr: * 0.27559055
12:03 AM katsmeow: .2756
12:03 AM katsmeow: yeas
12:03 AM rue_mohr: fraction .27559
12:03 AM rue_mohr: Best Match for 0.275590, is 9/32 (0.281250)
12:03 AM rue_mohr: Error is -0.005660
12:03 AM rue_mohr: so, prolly!
12:03 AM katsmeow: 9/32 is too big
12:03 AM rue_mohr: I have numbered bits too
12:03 AM rue_mohr: yea
12:04 AM katsmeow: i had to get reamers to get some holes right, drill bits seldom drilla round hole anyhow, not enough flutes
12:05 AM rue_mohr: yep
12:05 AM rue_mohr: can I use a 4f milling bit as a ream?
12:05 AM katsmeow: well, it's betetr than a drill bit, but it's not a 8-fluet reamer
12:08 AM rue_mohr: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HSS-Machine-Reamer-H7-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-rotating-tool-craftsman/32784976262.html
12:08 AM rue_mohr: hmmm
12:09 AM rue_mohr: yea, ok
12:11 AM katsmeow: you can always chuck them in a drill press to orient the reamer, and still turn it by hand
12:12 AM katsmeow: i seen fractional reamer sizes too, to really sneak up on a size you want
12:15 AM rue_mohr: I wonder how much land tax and services are theis year
12:16 AM katsmeow: services? they rototillthe garden for you?
12:16 AM rue_mohr: garbage, water, school, library, fire
12:16 AM katsmeow: o
12:17 AM katsmeow: i prolly ate a gram of motrin today, gonna have somemore
12:18 AM rue_mohr: lm555 seems to be just about a universal fix-all, have you tried that?
12:18 AM katsmeow: no
12:18 AM katsmeow: actually, i used a lot more 556 and 567 than 555
12:22 AM katsmeow: i used 74x121, 123, 122 instead of the 555 if possible
12:22 AM rue_mohr: so far I'v used it as a fet driver, an overload controller (and drive the cutout relay) and a motor driver
12:22 AM rue_mohr: its good for 10V, maybe I can make it do the level shifting for the motor its gonna drive
12:22 AM rue_mohr: set the thres to 2.5V
12:22 AM rue_mohr: 0-5 on the trigger
12:23 AM * katsmeow puts on "Cats in the cradle"
12:24 AM rue_mohr: ok I did money banking things
12:25 AM katsmeow: the goal was like current driving a stepper, to spin up a cassette spindle to suck the tape into the cassette asap, but with so little torque the tape didn;t break or stretch
12:25 AM rue_mohr: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-100pc-big-head-potentiometer-3296W-100K-104-multiturn-trimming-potentiometer/32828920957.html
12:25 AM rue_mohr: $40cad for 100pcs
12:25 AM rue_mohr: might be the last time in the world I ever see them
12:26 AM katsmeow: looks like a lot of leverage to break the trimmer body
12:26 AM katsmeow: good price tho
12:26 AM rue_mohr: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXXLvoa9BXk
12:26 AM katsmeow: erg, it takes 2 minutes to move the yt urls to the laptop
12:26 AM rue_mohr: see it later than
12:27 AM rue_mohr: its a constant current demo for retracting line for a kite
12:27 AM rue_mohr: by yours truly
12:28 AM rue_mohr: but I moofed it and tangled it up
12:28 AM katsmeow: ah, drill guts
12:32 AM katsmeow: 10amps will make those lilmotors HOT
12:32 AM rue_mohr: :)
12:32 AM katsmeow: so how did the kite flying go?
12:32 AM rue_mohr: jhylands
12:32 AM rue_mohr: wans't mine
12:32 AM rue_mohr: he was making some STUPID elaborate system to control tension
12:32 AM katsmeow: o
12:32 AM rue_mohr: I was telling him to just use current control on a dc motor
12:42 AM katsmeow: Free Shipping 100 pcs TIP42C 100V 6A BipolarTransistor PNP
12:42 AM katsmeow: US $10.00 / lot
12:42 AM katsmeow: good price
12:44 AM katsmeow: 100 of those for $10, needs 2amps bass drive for each to pull with 1 amp and 40v across them ,, that's 4,000 watts of linear dissipation for real cheap
12:44 AM katsmeow: errr, base drive
12:51 AM katsmeow: so is it painless to sign up for aliexpress?
12:52 AM katsmeow: ebay prices for that are ~$4 more
12:52 AM rue_mohr: its ben good, I didn't know how far to trust it, but its been good
12:53 AM rue_mohr: if the purchase protection is running out, you know, and you can ask for it to be extended
12:53 AM katsmeow: how are you makingpayments tothem?
12:53 AM rue_mohr: if you dont get your stuff, you can do a dispute, and always seem to get a refund
12:53 AM rue_mohr: credit card
12:53 AM katsmeow: i canceled my paypal, they would not allow me access to it online for most f a year
12:54 AM katsmeow: k
12:54 AM rue_mohr: ali holds the money till you ok the transaction or it times out
12:54 AM katsmeow: sopay upfront, same as ebay
12:55 AM katsmeow: shipping is fast enough?
12:55 AM rue_mohr: ali keeps the money till you ok it, so the seller dosn't get paid till your happy
12:55 AM rue_mohr: same shipping
12:55 AM katsmeow: k
12:55 AM rue_mohr: if the listing says money goes to shipping, it gets to you a lot faster
12:56 AM rue_mohr: but I think trump made china not want to sell to usa
12:56 AM * katsmeow has some 40v high current projects to do
12:57 AM katsmeow: got some 50v psu a while back, can put 3 of the 17v leds in series and drive them as hard as the heatsinks cantake it
12:58 AM katsmeow: goodprices on MJ13009 too
12:59 AM katsmeow: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/TO-220-TRIODE/630111_260217374.html?spm=2114.10010108.100008.21.28172f107CtW6T
12:59 AM rue_mohr: try to buy from sellers at 99% and higher
01:00 AM rue_mohr: 97% and lower means a problem
01:00 AM rue_mohr: which might be something stupid, but is grounds for caution
01:04 AM katsmeow: i do not see the rating for that seller
01:04 AM rue_mohr: you need to be logged in
01:05 AM katsmeow: i'm not signed up
01:05 AM rue_mohr: 99.1
01:05 AM rue_mohr: (thats fine)
01:05 AM katsmeow: good deal
01:06 AM katsmeow: formatting that hdd is only ay 89% :-/
01:06 AM rue_mohr: bedtime for me
01:07 AM * katsmeow toasts that notn with some antacid
01:07 AM katsmeow: gnites
01:09 AM * katsmeow puts on Windmills of Your Mind first
01:12 AM rue_bed: I wanted to do things in bed
01:12 AM rue_bed: I'm too tired
01:13 AM katsmeow: TMI
01:13 AM rue_bed: hah
01:13 AM rue_bed: I have code to post on github
01:13 AM rue_bed: oh well, later
01:14 AM rue_bed: ni ni
01:14 AM katsmeow: gnites
09:44 PM zhanx: rue_bed: you alive?
09:44 PM zhanx: or is it rue_mohr
09:44 PM zhanx: or rue_shop3
09:45 PM zhanx: i was thinking on your knack thing today
09:45 PM zhanx: well the last couple of days, and your right about that
09:52 PM rue_shop3: .
09:53 PM rue_shop3: test the guitar statement, its downright creepy
09:53 PM zhanx: you can teach all you want, but somethings you just can't teach
09:53 PM zhanx: and the knack is one of them
09:54 PM zhanx: I was out on a server repair today 3 tech called out on it
09:54 PM rue_shop3: and it was unusual, but easy?
09:54 PM zhanx: Simple fix DRAC card was out on a Dell poweredge
09:55 PM zhanx: turns out someone broke the cable, and no one tested it. and the breaker of the cable hide it in the wire bundle of the rack
09:55 PM rue_shop3: heh
09:57 PM zhanx: IT support was farmed to India, the site manager was out sick. The but 3 hours on the phone to find out which of the 11 routers it was suppose to plugged into was fun\
09:57 PM rue_shop3: ouch
09:57 PM zhanx: need to fix my network lag one of these days
10:29 PM zhanx: Evening katsmeow
10:29 PM katsmeow: rue
10:29 PM katsmeow: http://DesignerThinking.com/images/avr/DSCF7088m.jpg
10:29 PM katsmeow: http://DesignerThinking.com/images/avr/DSCF7090m.jpg
10:30 PM zhanx: looks good
10:30 PM katsmeow: argg,, mouse
10:30 PM katsmeow: hi zhanx
10:33 PM * katsmeow sets it off to one side
10:33 PM zhanx: don't you need a mouse?
10:34 PM katsmeow: i have a mouse on every puter i am using atm
10:34 PM zhanx: they must be hungry
10:35 PM Tom_L: zhanx if you ever need parts: https://www.rockauto.com/
10:35 PM katsmeow: yes, but i dopet them every day
10:35 PM Tom_L: about half what they wanted local
10:35 PM zhanx: Tom_L: I have a pro account with them
10:35 PM Tom_L: nice
10:35 PM zhanx: no it means i spend to much there
10:36 PM rue_shop3: hi kat
10:36 PM Tom_L: wow we have a quarum
10:36 PM katsmeow: hi rue
10:36 PM katsmeow: quorum ?
10:37 PM rue_shop3: hice kat
10:37 PM Tom_L: yeah one of those
10:37 PM rue_shop3: so, hook 'er up to the avr!
10:37 PM Tom_L: a quarium
10:37 PM * katsmeow looks at the hice
10:37 PM * katsmeow sings Aquarius
10:38 PM rue_shop3: your 7805 isn't suffocating against the pcb.... interesting trick
10:38 PM rue_shop3: hmm, its not suffocating OR shorting...
10:38 PM katsmeow: and i can lay a heatsink on it if needed
10:39 PM Tom_L: or cook something
10:39 PM zhanx: tiny tiny eggs
10:39 PM rue_shop3: mouse eggs?
10:40 PM katsmeow: laptop wart - barrel jack - diode - resistor - 220u - 7805 - 220u - reistsor and led - output wires
10:40 PM Tom_L: now i gotta figure out why the fan isn't coming on like it's supposed to
10:40 PM Tom_L: once i get the plate back in
10:40 PM katsmeow: plate?
10:40 PM Tom_L: ac clutch plate went bye bye
10:41 PM katsmeow: ouch
10:41 PM Tom_L: as in completely gone
10:41 PM zhanx: fan for the condenser?
10:41 PM Tom_L: no, inside
10:42 PM katsmeow: how did that happen, never heard of such a thing
10:42 PM Tom_L: me either
10:42 PM zhanx: *might* be part of the loop but, does it work on heat?
10:42 PM Tom_L: well it was
10:42 PM Tom_L: i'll try it once it's all back together
10:43 PM zhanx: i have access to the wiring and troubleshooting still so let me know
10:44 PM Tom_L: the other one had one of those stupid motors under the dash go out
10:44 PM Tom_L: probably put that back in tomorrow
10:45 PM zhanx: my last job was too last to change the password on their data software licenses so I can look up most makes and models
10:46 PM zhanx: lazy even
10:48 PM Tom_L: finally got one of the ethernet boards configured the other evening after we figued out the firmware he had online was outdated
10:49 PM Tom_L: got that back in sync and compiled a bit file for it for a chinese DB25 BOB
10:53 PM rue_shop3: :) kat set up a 5V power supply
10:54 PM katsmeow: i wanted a higher value for the 1w resistor, used what i had
10:55 PM katsmeow: what's the current to program an avr?
10:55 PM rue_shop3: about 15mA
10:56 PM Tom_L: very little
10:56 PM katsmeow: i should prolly get some 100 ohm 1w
10:56 PM Tom_L: you can program them clear down around 1.x v
10:56 PM Tom_L: i tested 1.7 but beyond that i couldn't see the led blink bright enough
10:56 PM katsmeow: then 100 ohm is fine, if i had them
10:57 PM Tom_L: not sure how reliable it is but it worked
10:58 PM katsmeow: erg,, FF is down to save cpu and bandwidth for something else, cannot look upthepart
10:59 PM rue_shop3: your safe to feed it the whole 5V...
10:59 PM rue_shop3: ?
11:01 PM katsmeow: i do not understand what you are saying
11:02 PM rue_shop3: thats cause I misread what you said and replied with nonsense
11:05 PM rue_shop3: srry
11:06 PM * katsmeow dies her eyes
11:06 PM katsmeow: dRies
11:08 PM Tom_L: what avr are you gonna play with?
11:12 PM katsmeow: got a 2313 in the programmernow, been there for years
11:12 PM katsmeow: want a small dip with at some digital io i canuse for moving data, ADC pins, etc
11:13 PM Tom_L: i made some programmers using the 2313 long time back
11:13 PM Tom_L: may still have a couple... dunno
11:14 PM Tom_L: chips that is..
11:15 PM rue_shop3: kat, if there was a next step, it would be hooking the 5V into that avr carrier board ya made
11:18 PM * katsmeow begins cutting and sawing the circuits
11:21 PM rue_shop3: did that work?
11:21 PM katsmeow: wait,,, where's the gnd return for the signals from the dragon, if i cut t5he gnd/+5 pair?
11:22 PM rue_shop3: leave the dragon
11:22 PM rue_shop3: it dosn't put power into the programming header anyow
11:22 PM rue_shop3: matter a fact it might need you to feed power into it to power the logic level buffers
11:22 PM rue_shop3: they do that for variable target voltage, but its just a pain
11:23 PM katsmeow: well, i cannot now, you told me to conncet the +5 i made to the programmer card that's plugged intothe dragon
11:23 PM rue_shop3: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/images/pi/IMG17Apr2018_041943.jpg
11:23 PM rue_shop3: thats right
11:23 PM rue_shop3: 5v -> card <- dragon
11:23 PM rue_shop3: its all 5V, dosn't matter who is supplying
11:23 PM rue_shop3: if you hook both 5V head-to-head, everything is ok
11:24 PM katsmeow: there is no gnd to the dragon for the signals it sends??
11:24 PM rue_shop3: but with your supply, if you remove the dragon (cause its just there for programming) then the avr still has power
11:24 PM rue_shop3: there is a gnd and vcc in the 6 pin header
11:24 PM rue_shop3: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/images/pi/IMG17Apr2018_041957.jpg
11:24 PM rue_shop3: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/images/pi/IMG17Apr2018_041943.jpg
11:25 PM rue_shop3: ^^^ there is the supply I did today
11:25 PM katsmeow: k
11:25 PM katsmeow: FF is down atm to save cpu and bandwidth
11:25 PM rue_shop3: 80VDC and 12VDC for the mecha pneumatic test
11:25 PM rue_shop3: fair nuff
11:26 PM katsmeow: i gott adrill these holes out
11:27 PM rue_shop3: 6 pin ISP
11:28 PM rue_shop3: 1 - MISO
11:28 PM rue_shop3: 2 - VCC
11:28 PM rue_shop3: 3 - SCK
11:28 PM rue_shop3: 4 - MOSI
11:28 PM rue_shop3: 5 - RESET
11:28 PM rue_shop3: 6 - GND
11:29 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/6pin_isp.jpg
11:30 PM katsmeow: i brought all 6 over to the cardi made, so why did i need to run a separate +5/gnd pair?
11:30 PM rue_shop3: katsmeow, the ground will be ground, but the vcc iirc, has to be fed-back into the dragon, cause tehy use it for the logic level converter
11:30 PM rue_shop3: ^^
11:31 PM Tom_L: the reason is some target boards may not be 5v rather 3.3 or such so they left the 5v off the 6pin header
11:31 PM rue_shop3: katsmeow, there is the supply on the dragon (on the other header) but I think your better off with a seperate supply so you can lose the dragon when its being stupid
11:31 PM rue_shop3: like making your single step the software
11:32 PM rue_shop3: kat, what tom said, but it caused reams of confusion with people trying to use the dragon for programming
11:32 PM rue_shop3: all sorts of people made all sorts of circuits to try to 'fix things' about the dragon
11:32 PM katsmeow: i cannot trace the pin2 on my card
11:32 PM rue_shop3: katsmeow, just hook your 5V to the chip(s)
11:33 PM rue_shop3: iirc its the corners of the 2313, do not even let the possability of it backfeeding the dragon concern you for a second
11:33 PM Tom_L: yeah that's what i'd do, there may be more than one on the chip
11:33 PM Tom_L: they all need 5v
11:33 PM katsmeow: then i just fucked up again
11:33 PM rue_shop3: how so?
11:34 PM rue_shop3: if the isp ground is connected, and you connect the 5V you made to the 2313, then lets just try it
11:34 PM katsmeow: the card i built has 3 chiop socketson i, none have +5 to all the chip cornerst
11:35 PM rue_shop3: this is part why I didn't really want to use the dragon, its not straightforward
11:35 PM rue_shop3: katsmeow, not all the chip corners
11:35 PM rue_shop3: kat, you wired a 5V rail on the board you made with the avr
11:35 PM rue_shop3: I'm going to call the board 'fredrickshoe' cause I dont have anything to call it
11:36 PM katsmeow: [11:34:pm] <rue_shop3> katsmeow, just hook your 5V to the chip(s)
11:36 PM katsmeow: [11:35:pm] <rue_shop3> iirc its the corners of the 2313,
11:36 PM Tom_L: looks like pin 20 is the only VCC on the 2313 and 10 is GND
11:36 PM rue_shop3: when you made fredrickshoe, you attached 5V to one corner of the 2313 (the vcc pin) and ground to the other corner (the gnd pin)
11:37 PM Tom_L: reset (pin1) should have a 10k or so to VCC as well
11:37 PM rue_shop3: katsmeow, translate everything I say
11:37 PM katsmeow: yeas
11:37 PM rue_shop3: I'm not speaking literally
11:37 PM rue_shop3: if you have a datasheet, attach the 5V suppyl yo made to the chip
11:38 PM * katsmeow rips the card she made off thw dragon and throws it against the wall
11:38 PM rue_shop3: ??!?!?!
11:39 PM rue_shop3: whaaat!?
11:39 PM katsmeow: it's covered in sockets, there';s no room for a 2313 alone with the headers wires soldered to it
11:39 PM katsmeow: easier to just start with a new perfboard
11:40 PM rue_shop3: isn't the 2313 what was already on there?
11:40 PM rue_shop3: I dont remember
11:40 PM * Tom_L goes to bed
11:40 PM rue_shop3: you gave up and I closed all the windows with all the information
11:40 PM rue_shop3: and now I'm guessing
11:41 PM katsmeow: 2313 is in a socket that's wired up
11:41 PM rue_shop3: right
11:41 PM katsmeow: the wiring is under the socket, i cannot trace it
11:41 PM rue_shop3: its got the power routed and the programmer routed, right?
11:41 PM rue_shop3: multimeter?
11:42 PM katsmeow: goddamnit this is supposed to be easy
11:42 PM rue_shop3: hey, you have a 5V supply we can call it a day
11:42 PM rue_shop3: do you know why you have 3 sockets on that board?
11:43 PM rue_shop3: maybe you made it for different chips, I dont know
11:43 PM katsmeow: i feel likei wasted all my time and it isn;t going to happen
11:43 PM rue_shop3: I feel like today was a bad day to sugget hooking the power to the baord.... nice 5V supply tho!
11:44 PM rue_shop3: I should send ya a ready-to-go 2313 kit...
11:44 PM rue_shop3: wonder if I can pull that off
11:44 PM katsmeow: i made it for many chips, just by moving the gnd pin jmper
11:45 PM katsmeow: going topower it up just to see it smoke
11:45 PM rue_shop3: if you have 5V and gnd the right way on the power pins , it'll be ok
11:45 PM katsmeow: no smoke
11:46 PM rue_shop3: I need to make supper and sleep :-/
11:46 PM rue_shop3: tommorow I can set up the solinoids and see if they work
11:46 PM katsmeow: there's 5 on pin 16 , gnd on pin 14
11:46 PM katsmeow: err, 8
11:48 PM katsmeow: i was programming eproms on the C64 with no help in the 1980's , this should not be so difficult
11:48 PM katsmeow: need a $200 dragon? ok, got it, ned to make a card because there's nosocket on the dragon to axxept a chip to program, ok, did it
11:49 PM katsmeow: need a separate +5 psu, ok, built it, STILL NO PROGRAMMING GOINg ON AFTER YEARSD OF WAITING
11:49 PM katsmeow: i am no closer than 5 yrs ago, and there's no new clear instructions
11:52 PM rue_mohr: katsmeow, calm
11:52 PM rue_mohr: calm
11:53 PM katsmeow: there's no one irl who knows what an AVR is, maybe they don;t exist
11:53 PM rue_mohr: your doing fine on your own
11:53 PM rue_mohr: from what i can tell, your more worried about doing what I say than doing what you suspect is right cause your not sure of yourself
11:53 PM katsmeow: you and Tom and zhanx have the experience
11:54 PM katsmeow: and no matter howmuch you talk, i still have no clue what to actually do right
11:54 PM rue_mohr: if we had built a parallel port pogrammer 12 years ago, we wouldn't be having these issues
11:54 PM rue_mohr: we can use the dragon
11:54 PM rue_mohr: you have it
11:54 PM zhanx: i mess up 90% of the time
11:54 PM katsmeow: we have not used the dragon in howmany years that i have had it?
11:55 PM rue_mohr: kat, ask me anything you dont understand with what I'm going to say next:
11:55 PM zhanx: my first isp i bought from tom, never used it, never figured it out
11:55 PM rue_mohr: the dragon 6 pin isp has gets connected 1:1 to the avr, WITH THE EXCEPTION that miso->mosi and mosi->miso between the avr and programmer
11:56 PM rue_mohr: the 5V supplly you made goes to the chip in parallel with the 5v pins on the dragon
11:56 PM rue_mohr: a 10k resistor goes from the avr 5v supply to the reset pin
11:56 PM rue_mohr: ---
11:56 PM rue_mohr: right now, thats all we need
11:56 PM katsmeow: i cut off and tossed the 5v pin header i had
11:56 PM zhanx: kat remember in 08 went I first started this route I sucked
11:57 PM rue_mohr: kat, are there any dupont connectors in the tuners?
11:57 PM rue_mohr: the ones that fit side by side in a 0.1" header?
11:58 PM zhanx: but then rue_mohr knack for computers comes in to play, and you have that too
11:58 PM katsmeow: i dunno who made them
11:58 PM rue_mohr: it dosnt' natter who made them,
11:58 PM rue_mohr: they are headers that fit side by side in a 0.1" connector
11:58 PM katsmeow: dupont was an oem of hardware
11:58 PM rue_mohr: they use tehm for the control panels in computers
11:58 PM rue_mohr: we call them dupont connectrs because china does
11:59 PM rue_mohr: it does not matter who makes them
11:59 PM rue_mohr: we just call them dupont
11:59 PM rue_mohr: not after the company "dupont" but the chineese man "dupont" who named them after himself
11:59 PM katsmeow: i have a box fullof wires with headers that went to computer front panels
11:59 PM rue_mohr: SWEEET
11:59 PM rue_mohr: have 2x 3 pin ones?