#garfield Logs

Apr 14 2018

12:29 AM zhanx: hi
12:38 AM rue_mohr: hah! I got the code working!
12:38 AM rue_mohr: I pulled the screen off a crushed vcr in a pile of scrap metal
12:39 AM rue_mohr: found the chip datasheet so I wrote code for it
06:03 PM rue_mohr: hmm, wonder how fast I can clock into a '595
06:06 PM rue_mohr: 50Mhz, ok, that wont be a problem
10:17 PM katsmeow is now known as katsmeow-afk
10:21 PM katsmeow-afk: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0195549
10:22 PM rue_mohr: hey
10:23 PM katsmeow-afk: rue : Paper Man 1971 , students created a new human persona in a 1971 computer
10:23 PM rue_mohr: so, I took the mower deck I got and put a good engine on it
10:23 PM rue_mohr: not surprised
10:24 PM rue_mohr: if things had progressed linearly from 1957 when they were doing FFTs on computers, we would be somewhere magic now
10:25 PM katsmeow-afk: yea,, they really screwed up with that whole "central processing unit" archetecture
10:25 PM rue_mohr: katsmeow-afk, your familiar with what a C-64 can do
10:25 PM katsmeow-afk: yeas
10:25 PM rue_mohr: and your using a 3Ghz computer right now
10:25 PM katsmeow-afk: yeas
10:25 PM rue_mohr: for transcieving text with the internet
10:25 PM katsmeow-afk: yeas :-/
10:25 PM rue_mohr: you see the same thing wrong here I do right?
10:25 PM katsmeow-afk: and http/graphics
10:25 PM katsmeow-afk: yeas
10:26 PM katsmeow-afk: could be using an avr
10:26 PM katsmeow-afk: a TIN avr even
10:26 PM katsmeow-afk: TINY
10:26 PM katsmeow-afk is now known as katsmeow
10:26 PM rue_mohr: so I have backup mower again
10:26 PM rue_mohr: but I got rid of two parts mowers
10:27 PM katsmeow: the C64 won;t run at 3Ghz, and the wintel won;t interface to my room lites or front door or rain detector
10:27 PM rue_mohr: I wonder what kinda software would be needed to translate the C64 binary into x86
10:28 PM rue_mohr: I bet it would run like stink
10:28 PM katsmeow: the C64 pulls 1- watts (would pull far less if i souped it up), and the wintel pulls 150 watts
10:28 PM katsmeow: err 1- = 10
10:28 PM katsmeow: 6502 code is massivly unlike 8086 code
10:29 PM rue_mohr: well
10:29 PM katsmeow: the x86 is cisc, the 6502 is risc
10:29 PM rue_mohr: a person can port between them tho
10:29 PM katsmeow: the x86 is register based, the 6502 is ram based
10:29 PM rue_mohr: did you see th vcr screen I rescued?
10:30 PM katsmeow: in a sense, the 6502 has 256 "registers", it's the bottom 256 bytes of ram
10:30 PM katsmeow: but accessing them takes a while
10:30 PM katsmeow: no
10:30 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/images/p1090936.jpg
10:30 PM Tom_L: what chip was the C64
10:30 PM katsmeow: https://www.newhavendisplay.com/lcd-graphic-c-21.html
10:30 PM rue_mohr: 6502 aparently
10:31 PM katsmeow: 6510 , it's a 6502 core with a 6bit io port on it
10:31 PM rue_mohr: I should show you the scrap metal pile I picked the screen out of
10:31 PM rue_mohr: the vcr had been run over
10:31 PM Tom_L: http://forum.6502.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4467
10:31 PM rue_mohr: it'd been in the rain and sun for about 2 years
10:31 PM Tom_L: might be 'stink' fast
10:32 PM * katsmeow looks very surprised Tom is reading on the c64
10:32 PM Tom_L: i had an sx i gave to the mailman
10:32 PM katsmeow: yea,, but no one has done it, and there's none for sale, and the fpga tools are $1000's
10:33 PM rue_mohr: ok, project options include
10:33 PM Tom_L: http://6502.org/homebuilt#HDL
10:33 PM rue_mohr: 7 segment flip sign
10:33 PM rue_mohr: engine pan design for the boat engine
10:33 PM rue_mohr: air muscles /stm32
10:34 PM katsmeow: what's-her-nick supposedly did it, but it was slow, and hobbled, and it made her a $millionaire anyhow
10:34 PM rue_mohr: I have that screen flashing SLEEP right now
10:35 PM rue_mohr: I wonder how many times i have made 7 segment fonts
10:35 PM rue_mohr: I'm sure that was my 3rd time on that
10:35 PM rue_mohr: drawDigit(0, 5);
10:35 PM rue_mohr: drawDigit(1, 17);
10:35 PM rue_mohr: drawDigit(2, 0x0E);
10:35 PM rue_mohr: drawDigit(3, 0x0E);
10:35 PM rue_mohr: drawDigit(4, 18);
10:36 PM katsmeow: Tom, that guy is going nowhere : This is the part I was looking for clarification on - what do you mean by 'get its innards in order'? Isn't that the sort of behavior I need to actually emulate?
10:38 PM Tom_L: what guy?
10:38 PM katsmeow: <Tom_L> http://forum.6502.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4467
10:38 PM Tom_L: the last link has several emulations
10:39 PM katsmeow: the WesternDigital Whatever , the guy who designed the 6502, Robert Mench(?), has been talking about a 150 Mhz 6502 for decades
10:39 PM Tom_L: https://opencores.org/project/ag_6502
10:40 PM katsmeow: http://westerndesigncenter.com/wdc/
10:41 PM katsmeow: * Maximum tested frequency for Spartan 3E: 10 MHz (10 times faster than original 6502). <<-- you can get a 10Mhz 6502 for like $2 , WAY cheaper than the fpga and programmer
10:42 PM rue_mohr: ok, project options include
10:43 PM rue_mohr: 7 segment flip sign
10:43 PM rue_mohr: engine pan design for the boat engine
10:43 PM rue_mohr: air muscles / stm32
10:43 PM * rue_mohr thinks
10:43 PM rue_mohr: one of these things isn't programming
10:43 PM * rue_mohr goes to put laundry on and start supper
10:45 PM katsmeow: don;t you take the laundry OFF, and put it in some kind of washing machine?
10:46 PM katsmeow: or does putting it on protect you from the supper?
10:49 PM katsmeow: native 6502 code makes so many external memory fetches, if you emulated it in a avr, you should use one with 64k of ram inside the avr, and with no penalties for using it
10:49 PM katsmeow: which of course means it;s not a 6502 any more
10:51 PM katsmeow: the CMD puters also shared the 64k with video, and shared clock, so pretty much the first step is install static ram, as fast as you can afford, for the sole use of the cpu
10:52 PM katsmeow: this means you ned a transparent way to move data between the oem system at 1Mhz and whatever your new system is runnign at
10:52 PM katsmeow: a few chips should do it ok
10:53 PM katsmeow: some epople have simply slowed the fast cpu down to 1Mhz for the duration it needs access to the original system
10:54 PM * katsmeow just wants to do a VLIW cpu, at least 100 Mhz, or it's barely worth doing
10:56 PM katsmeow: a C64 running 64 Mhz with 64 MB ram would be catchy tho
10:56 PM katsmeow: it's worth noting that it takes some horsepower to operate a color vga display
10:56 PM katsmeow: it takes way more ram than the oe C64 can access
10:58 PM * katsmeow woders if she is here alone
10:59 PM rue_mohr: no
10:59 PM rue_mohr: I didn't tell you
10:59 PM rue_mohr: but mother called and I talked with her pn the phone for a while
10:59 PM rue_mohr: I'm going to go put the laundry int eh washing machine now
11:00 PM rue_mohr: the vcr screen has 8 7 segments on it, thats enough for address and data of a manual entry memory programmer for a computer
11:00 PM katsmeow: i beenhearing about your mom for many years now, and she hasn;t talked to me once :-/
11:00 PM katsmeow: i hope she is ok
11:03 PM rue_shop3: yup
11:03 PM rue_shop3: kinda she hurt her back
11:03 PM rue_shop3: and she wont STOP DOING THINGS so it will heal well
11:04 PM katsmeow: 5PCS W65C02S8P-10 65C02 6502 8-Bit 10MHz MPU DIP40 NEW ; ( 171526281785 ) ; US $12.67 + US $1.80 shipping <--- $2.90 each
11:06 PM rue_shop3: so I was thinking
11:06 PM katsmeow: GOOD DEAL!
11:06 PM rue_shop3: if I build the arms of the mecha, I can use them to help build the rest
11:06 PM rue_shop3: and I can use them for other tings
11:06 PM katsmeow: er,,, the arms need brains tho
11:06 PM rue_shop3: I was going to build the power pack, but I realized that I can make a plug-in pack for now
11:06 PM rue_shop3: I'm the brains kat, its a servobot
11:07 PM katsmeow: oh, right
11:07 PM rue_shop3: so, what I should focus on is the pneumatics and mechanical design
11:07 PM katsmeow: so you can pet the cat while at work :-)
11:07 PM rue_shop3: I need to work out the force feedback stuff
11:08 PM * katsmeow wishes rue the best
11:09 PM rue_shop3: I'm drowsy again
11:09 PM rue_shop3: I need to work out the timing of the pneumatic solinoid driver I'd made
11:09 PM rue_shop3: I recorded everthing but the microcontroller freq
11:09 PM rue_shop3: :/
11:10 PM rue_shop3: maybe I should focus on getting the old code going again
11:10 PM rue_shop3: work up from there
11:10 PM rue_shop3: I have the double-acting test jig made up
11:10 PM rue_shop3: and a set of pressure sensors
11:10 PM rue_shop3: and a valve bank, that needs a bit more pipwork
11:11 PM Tom_L: test video of that looked good
11:13 PM rue_shop3: yea
11:13 PM rue_shop3: oo thunder
11:13 PM rue_shop3: I didn't have the alg worked out for doubleacting
11:14 PM * katsmeow worked out the really fast small pwm proportioning valves, but doesn;t have all the tools to make them, like a CAM mill
11:16 PM katsmeow: some debugging and tradeoffs need to be made to make it cheaply and fast and tiny
11:30 PM rue_mohr: thats what I'm doing with the washing machine valves, 'tapping' them
11:30 PM rue_mohr: with electricity
11:35 PM katsmeow: hmm?
11:37 PM rue_mohr: their like pushbutton valves
11:37 PM rue_mohr: I'm tapping on them
11:37 PM rue_mohr: but its with electricl pulses cause their solinoid
11:37 PM rue_mohr: s
11:38 PM katsmeow: i was thinking the smallest actual servos, and actual tiny valves, all embedded in a manifold (one piece or sections bolted together)
11:39 PM katsmeow: easy to do pneumatics, hydraulics would take some debugging
11:44 PM rue_mohr: hyldraulics are mesey, expensive and often slow
11:45 PM * katsmeow nods
11:46 PM katsmeow: i think pancake motors are best, preferrably those with no iron in the rotor, they accelerate bloody fast
11:47 PM rue_mohr: the pneumaitcs are feaking light tho
11:47 PM rue_mohr: power/weight
11:48 PM rue_mohr: can I cheap and use helium?
11:48 PM katsmeow: but they canot be stopped exactly where you want them
11:48 PM rue_mohr: cheat
11:48 PM katsmeow: helium is used in some generators, sure
11:48 PM rue_mohr: you saw my servo pneumatic demo, right?
11:48 PM katsmeow: years aago, yeas
11:48 PM rue_mohr: yea
11:49 PM katsmeow: i asked if it ran on oil or water also, you ever answered
11:49 PM rue_mohr: one other non-commercial person has done it since
11:49 PM rue_mohr: ? maybe I wasn't there
11:49 PM rue_mohr: I dont post when I'm afk
11:49 PM katsmeow: i asked many times
11:50 PM rue_mohr: sorry
11:50 PM rue_mohr: it was air! ;)
11:50 PM katsmeow: you told me you didn;t care, and if i wanted to know, to do it myself
11:50 PM rue_mohr: er, what?
11:50 PM katsmeow: i koy you did it with air
11:50 PM katsmeow: i know you did it with air
11:50 PM katsmeow: i asked if it ran on oil or water also, you ever answered
11:51 PM rue_mohr: just air
11:51 PM katsmeow: i was very interested in it running on water, and you were not interested in anything but air
11:51 PM rue_mohr: kat, can you find the part of the conversation where I said that?
11:51 PM katsmeow: prolly not
11:51 PM rue_mohr: only air is usefull to me
11:51 PM rue_mohr: I need pwoer and speed, thats light
11:52 PM katsmeow: i noticed
11:52 PM rue_mohr: and strong
11:52 PM katsmeow: air has a lag on the power tho
11:52 PM katsmeow: and it isn;t accurate
11:53 PM katsmeow: on positioning
11:53 PM katsmeow: it's like a servo vs a stepper
11:53 PM rue_mohr: the positioning is why I use a servo loopo
11:53 PM katsmeow: k
11:55 PM * katsmeow resumes playing Solitaire
11:56 PM * rue_mohr offers kat a soldering iron and slides a 7805 across the table...
11:57 PM rue_mohr: :( I'm not sure you want to work on the avr thing, I think you got fed up last time and think their useless
11:58 PM rue_mohr: I know your mouth hurts, but...
11:59 PM rue_mohr: we have about 2 more days work to get you up and going with them
11:59 PM * katsmeow was fondling allthread and bearings, and noticed one combination takes 10 turns to travel 1/4 inch