#garfield Logs
Feb 26 2018
#garfield Calendar
09:12 PM katsmeow: ah ha! it doesn't matter how accurately the bend-up on the brake is aligned, what matters is how you have aligned the hold-down to the bend-up after it's all built
09:15 PM Tom_L: jup
09:15 PM katsmeow: and the hold-down should be adjustable back and forth, for different thickness and strength and bend radius on the materials
09:15 PM katsmeow: so,, forget the alignment, within reason, just build it and adjust it
09:15 PM katsmeow: ok?
09:15 PM katsmeow: got that?
09:15 PM katsmeow: hi Tom
09:15 PM Tom_L: what you workin on?
09:15 PM katsmeow: a kahlua
09:17 PM katsmeow: i was surprised you used a mill-motor-shaft assy, vs a shaft-with-collet, and pulley-to-motor
09:17 PM Tom_L: on z?
09:17 PM * katsmeow nods
09:18 PM Tom_L: no experience with ballscrews so i wanted the extra torque
09:18 PM Tom_L: turns out i probably didn't need it
09:19 PM katsmeow: not sure how the torque on the cutter shaft is affected by the ball screws
09:20 PM katsmeow: you have : |pulley|===[motor]===:::bit::::
09:20 PM katsmeow: that arrangement surprised me
09:21 PM Tom_L: on the spindle or the Z drive?
09:21 PM katsmeow: yeas on the spindle mounted on the vertical z-table
09:21 PM Tom_L: that's off my sherline
09:21 PM Tom_L: just the way it was
09:21 PM katsmeow: oh
09:21 PM Tom_L: works good compared to the v belt it had
09:22 PM katsmeow: o
09:22 PM Tom_L: was burning belts every other day with the v belt
09:22 PM katsmeow: did you have any trouble making the z movement true 90-90 in all respects to the xy table?
09:23 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtFTRyS__Yc
09:25 PM katsmeow: ah, sneaky
09:25 PM katsmeow: later welding didn;t throw it off then?
09:26 PM Tom_L: didn't seem to
09:26 PM katsmeow: good
09:26 PM Tom_L: shimmed a bit but not much
09:26 PM katsmeow: ah, ok
09:27 PM katsmeow: work, check, adjust, work, check, adjust, work, check, adjust, etc
09:27 PM Tom_L: one full evening
09:28 PM * katsmeow nods
09:28 PM katsmeow: are you enjoying the roofed picnic area still?
09:28 PM Tom_L: yeah
09:29 PM Tom_L: should be enclosed and heated though :D
09:29 PM katsmeow: i am still using my roofed space too
09:29 PM katsmeow: i put in the walls, cuts off the wind-rain blowing thru, makes it hotter tho
09:30 PM Tom_L: yeah down there it would be
09:30 PM Tom_L: splurged and got that for it the other day http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/Vise3.jpg
09:31 PM katsmeow: sadly, resigned to putting in a ceiling below the roof peaks in the house, where i had put in some skylites, just to turn it into a regular attic with blower to dump roof heat outside
09:31 PM katsmeow: since the neighbors were never going to let me insulate it, and the windows let noise out
09:32 PM katsmeow: yeow heavy vise
09:32 PM katsmeow: does the plexi fence really help?
09:33 PM Tom_L: yeah
09:33 PM Tom_L: i have a 2nd tier i can set on top of part of it too
09:34 PM Tom_L: depends which way the chips are flying at the time
09:34 PM Tom_L: it's polycarbonate though so it won't break
09:34 PM katsmeow: i've seen pleated "cloth" hanging down behind the z-axis somewhere before
09:35 PM Tom_L: yeah
09:35 PM Tom_L: wasn't sure how to go about hangin it
09:35 PM Tom_L: i've got some neoprene sheet i could use
09:35 PM Tom_L: same as on that front flap
09:36 PM Tom_L: you inspired me to build that btw
09:36 PM Tom_L: all the stuff you've gone about and done
09:36 PM katsmeow: i found something like that, but it's pvc, in the fabric dept at Walmart, 6ft wide sheets on a fabric roll
09:36 PM katsmeow: me?!
09:37 PM Tom_L: i've watched some of the stuff you come up with and decided to try
09:37 PM katsmeow: i felt like i was ot helping anyone, and totally took down designerthinking.com and gave up the otehr domains
09:37 PM Tom_L: all the metal was from the scrap yard
09:37 PM Tom_L: and mostly stuff i already had
09:38 PM Tom_L: except better steppers and the ballscrew stuff
09:38 PM katsmeow: always keep things where you can get your paws on it, today i used a "board roller" i built in the '90's
09:40 PM katsmeow: i finally got a scrollback lathe chuck that fits a scrap big truck front wheel drive spindle
09:40 PM katsmeow: have not mounted it yet
09:41 PM Tom_L: i am glad i drew it up first though
09:41 PM katsmeow: 6" chuck, the truck spindle has a 1.25 passthru
09:41 PM Tom_L: i changed the first design completely
09:41 PM Tom_L: was gonna ask that
09:41 PM Tom_L: decent size hole
09:42 PM katsmeow: truck, not car
09:43 PM katsmeow: someone has been tossing new parts at the recycler, one of the Ford service centers here was bought and greatly enlarged
09:43 PM Tom_L: yeah i ran across a new piece of 1/4" plate at the steel yard for this
09:43 PM Tom_L: i'd just gotten an old rusty one i was planning to use
09:44 PM Tom_L: i was pretty happy
09:44 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Steel6.jpg
09:44 PM Tom_L: that was the first layout
09:44 PM Tom_L: really glad i scrapped it
09:45 PM katsmeow: why? the back brace is a good idea, altho i'd have done it somewhat difeferently
09:45 PM Tom_L: i thought it was too but for some reason i didn't like it
09:45 PM Tom_L: most commercial mills are done the way i ended up doing it
09:46 PM Tom_L: except they're cast
09:46 PM katsmeow: yeas, i have seen some commercial mills that needed bracing
09:47 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Z_Axis_Support2.jpg
09:47 PM Tom_L: i pretty well had it figured out too before dropping the idea
09:48 PM katsmeow: ah, i see your problem, you got it overengineered
09:48 PM Tom_L: the plate and braces were so i could shim under it
09:48 PM Tom_L: if needed
09:49 PM Tom_L: that's the stepper mount behind it
09:49 PM Tom_L: which i did keep
09:49 PM Tom_L: only made one thicker
09:49 PM katsmeow: i'd have used a scrap 3/4 allthread for the back brace, and not even considered shimming the posts or back brace
09:49 PM Tom_L: that was 3/16 and i went with 1/4 on most of it
09:50 PM Tom_L: from left to right, not front to back
09:51 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Z_Slide2.jpg
09:51 PM Tom_L: i spent one whole night on those angle iron to the tube
09:51 PM Tom_L: they turned out straight as an arrow
09:51 PM Tom_L: no shims
09:51 PM katsmeow: i do have a roof-ridge hook clamped for sawing on tomorrow, and the sheet brake parts clamped too
09:52 PM Tom_L: used a depth mic while i mounted them
09:52 PM Tom_L: seems kinda silly on something you're gonna weld
09:52 PM Tom_L: but it worked
09:53 PM katsmeow: good strong clamping on heavy stock, and then not overheating, works for me too
09:53 PM Tom_L: short welds and let it cool
09:53 PM katsmeow: i've stacked 1x3 channel before to clamp to while welding lighter stock
09:53 PM Tom_L: yeah
09:53 PM katsmeow: yeas, short, spread out
09:54 PM Tom_L: sucks the heat out
09:54 PM katsmeow: yeas
09:55 PM Tom_L: gotta go get some stuff done
09:55 PM katsmeow: nice talking with you :-)
09:55 PM Tom_L: don't be such a stranger
09:56 PM Tom_L: ttyl
09:56 PM katsmeow: k
09:56 PM Tom_L: you saw the cad i did for it didn't you?
09:57 PM katsmeow: no
09:57 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Column_Mill_VMC.jpg
09:58 PM katsmeow: just found http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/Mister1.jpg , the spindle-motor assy is different than the pic i saw of it last week, may have been a temp trial you had done
09:58 PM Tom_L: ended up pretty close
09:58 PM Tom_L: it's mostly the same
09:58 PM Tom_L: i added a aluminum plate to mount the sherline spindle to
09:59 PM Tom_L: the rest is pretty much the same
09:59 PM Tom_L: oh, i added 2" to the Z standoff
09:59 PM katsmeow: i have no preferences, but why didn;t you use the two-post overhead bridge layout?
09:59 PM Tom_L: gantry?
09:59 PM Tom_L: i didn't want a gantry
10:00 PM katsmeow: gimme a clue?
10:00 PM Tom_L: have none
10:00 PM Tom_L: :)
10:00 PM Tom_L: just what i was used to seeing and using
10:00 PM katsmeow: ah
10:00 PM Tom_L: seemed pretty solid
10:01 PM katsmeow: you used enough steel :-)
10:01 PM Tom_L: i wanted it better than the sherline
10:01 PM Tom_L: what can i say
10:02 PM katsmeow: still, the longer the path from bit tip to top of the x-y work table, the more flexable it is
10:02 PM Tom_L: i know
10:02 PM Tom_L: it does a pretty good job
10:02 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/Softjaws.jpg
10:02 PM Tom_L: did those in manual mode
10:03 PM Tom_L: cut the squares off the piece you see in the background
10:03 PM katsmeow: steel "soft" jaws ?
10:03 PM Tom_L: stuff i had
10:03 PM Tom_L: aluminum
10:03 PM katsmeow: oh
10:03 PM Tom_L: just some scrap i had from running the big ones
10:04 PM Tom_L: figured id used it for something
10:04 PM Tom_L: anyway, gotta go
10:04 PM katsmeow: i grabbed a cast iron table vise at the recycler the otehr day, about 80 lbs worth of vise
10:04 PM katsmeow: ~$8
10:04 PM Tom_L: nice
10:04 PM katsmeow: now i need a betetr table to mount it on!
10:05 PM Tom_L: the mill is sitting on 1/2" plate
10:05 PM Tom_L: a table i got when i was a kid from my neighbor
10:05 PM Tom_L: swore i'd never part with it
10:06 PM Tom_L: he was a steelworker
10:06 PM katsmeow: he'd be happy to know you built a whole workshop around it
10:07 PM katsmeow: the xy table is 1/2 thich alum slab ?
10:20 PM rue_: kat
10:20 PM rue_: hi
10:20 PM rue_: your still here! sweet
10:21 PM rue_: how R you doing?
10:21 PM katsmeow: rue
10:21 PM rue_: hi
10:21 PM katsmeow: was just visiting and Tom talked to me
10:22 PM rue_: indeed
10:22 PM rue_: nice to chat live with ya!
10:22 PM katsmeow: but you haven't
10:22 PM rue_: I am
10:23 PM rue_: I just finished up with a vistor
10:23 PM rue_: and am now digging into my, now cold, supper
10:23 PM rue_: tea is hot tho :)
10:23 PM katsmeow: o
10:23 PM rue_: whats the lead project on your side then?
10:24 PM katsmeow: doing 3 , really, same time
10:24 PM rue_: do tell
10:24 PM rue_: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/reprap3/
10:24 PM rue_: I'm building another printer
10:25 PM katsmeow: 1) roof ridge hook, to hold a ladder on the roof nearly anywhere on the house
10:25 PM rue_: its really awesome to sit back in a shop with 3 cnc machine and 3 printers going, knowing that even doing nothing, your still getting thigns done
10:25 PM rue_: ok
10:25 PM katsmeow: 2) metal brake to be bendy straight corners
10:25 PM rue_: are the trees filling your roof stuffs with stuff?
10:25 PM Tom_L: rue_ got the new one goin?
10:26 PM rue_: not yet
10:26 PM rue_: katsmeow, the big brake?
10:26 PM katsmeow: 3) wall section so i can convert the high peaks of the "cathedral type" ceiling to enclosed forced fan attic
10:26 PM rue_: ok
10:26 PM katsmeow: rue, ~20 inch wide capacity
10:26 PM Tom_L: it's the kinda hot down there i don't like :)
10:26 PM rue_: #18 or 3/4" material?
10:26 PM katsmeow: #18
10:27 PM rue_: ok
10:27 PM rue_: I need a brake too, I'd like to see your design when you got it goin
10:27 PM rue_: box or ?
10:27 PM katsmeow: the engine-compressor project is still using the space i had allocated for the BIG plate roller
10:27 PM rue_: ah
10:28 PM rue_: I have a 4 stroke -> 2 stroke conversion I was playing with
10:28 PM rue_: need to regrind the material I added to the cam
10:28 PM katsmeow: you expect the bondo to lasy as a cam ?
10:28 PM rue_: from L to + :)
10:28 PM katsmeow: last
10:28 PM rue_: I dun added 6011 to it!
10:28 PM katsmeow: ooooohhh
10:29 PM rue_: built a pile to shape into lobes
10:29 PM katsmeow: surprised it didn;t warp the camshaft
10:29 PM rue_: might have, it wont be a long-life machine
10:29 PM rue_: curiosity really
10:29 PM Tom_L: you've got a few of those
10:30 PM katsmeow: steam, or real gasburner engine?
10:30 PM rue_: do you think the crankcase of a 4 stroke can do a compression stroke?
10:30 PM rue_: gas
10:30 PM Tom_L: it won't pack the fuel like it's supposed to on a 2 stroke
10:30 PM katsmeow: pressurise the crankcase? nope, the walls will evetually blow out, ditto the bearing seals
10:30 PM rue_: if it backfires it might blow up
10:30 PM rue_: hmm
10:31 PM rue_: what do you think the peak is that needed
10:31 PM rue_: the volume is also wrong
10:31 PM Tom_L: might make an awesome video though
10:31 PM katsmeow: you almost need a 2nd full engine to make into a compressor to run the 1st one as a 2-stroke
10:31 PM rue_: I'd have to add filler of something
10:32 PM rue_: it WAS part of the mecha project, but since then I was given a 2 stroke boat engine
10:32 PM rue_: so one of the summer projects is to make the power pack for the mecha
10:33 PM katsmeow: i always thought it would be a neat trick to bolt two 4-cyl together as an opposed piston engine
10:33 PM rue_: hmm
10:35 PM katsmeow: i forget the names of the engines atm, but the usa ww2 subs used 12-cyl opposed engines, some trains used them, and the river boats the usa used in vietnam/Korea used Brit Deltics
10:36 PM rue_: how do plane engines lubricate?
10:36 PM rue_: I ask cause I assume you know off the top of your head
10:36 PM katsmeow: oil, oil pumps, vac lines outa the crankcase to slinger separators
10:37 PM rue_: so, just slosh it around a lot?
10:37 PM katsmeow: in a more intentional way than sloshing
10:37 PM rue_: what about oil trying to pool up on the underside of lower pistons?!?!
10:37 PM Tom_L: not fairbanks morse?
10:37 PM katsmeow: pistons move, oil won;t pool under a piston
10:37 PM rue_: thats the problem with the mecha, needs to be an omnidirectional engine
10:37 PM katsmeow: Tom, that's it
10:38 PM rue_: thats what I chose a 2 stroke, no oil resivoir
10:38 PM rue_: I'm not sure how to do an omnidirectional tank
10:39 PM rue_: maybe a stretched bladder tank?
10:39 PM katsmeow: the bigger problem on some of these engines, is the oil or water pooling in the cyl between the pistons before startup
10:39 PM rue_: hydraulic them yea
10:39 PM katsmeow: rue, yeas, pressurinsed system
10:40 PM katsmeow: one solution is hold the valves open and turn them over a few times
10:40 PM katsmeow: slowly
10:40 PM rue_: locking vlaves open can be sone with a simple solinoid
10:40 PM rue_: a small one that locks it with the cam... I suppose
10:40 PM katsmeow: or a long lever and a shaft alongside the camshaft
10:40 PM rue_: works better on a 2stroke
10:40 PM rue_: wait, parity error
10:41 PM katsmeow: vertical piston stroke tends to drain the oil/etc out the bottom port
10:41 PM rue_: hmm, something more like a 4 stroke valve thats just kept closed normally
10:41 PM rue_: so, what do planes do?
10:41 PM rue_: (radial engine)
10:41 PM katsmeow: turn over a few times by hand, sure you've seenit on small single engines?
10:42 PM rue_: well, we have beavers over here, their radial, the pilots just crank them
10:42 PM katsmeow: even B-29 turned over a few times by hand bfore the engineer cranked them over
10:42 PM rue_: I mean, their doing a lot of other stuff with leavers too
10:43 PM katsmeow: i dunno, praps they have a way in-cabin to hold the valves open a few turns
10:43 PM rue_: blooming turboprop flipping LOT OF NOISE
10:43 PM rue_: I should ask one of them
10:43 PM rue_: and helicopters use turbines...
10:43 PM rue_: hmm
10:43 PM katsmeow: i know of one generator had a crank i could haul on to hold the vales open to take a load off the starter if the battery was weak
10:43 PM katsmeow: let it wind up to speed and let the lever slam shut
10:43 PM rue_: yup
10:44 PM Tom_L: my bud's dad used to restore radial engines
10:44 PM Tom_L: he had the largest stock of them in the US i think
10:44 PM Tom_L: for bi planes
10:44 PM rue_: Tom_L, if he has a spare ~2HP ship 'er over!
10:44 PM Tom_L: these were large
10:44 PM katsmeow: lol @ 2hp biplane
10:44 PM rue_: :/ I just need like 2HP
10:44 PM rue_: haha
10:44 PM rue_: "powered glider"
10:45 PM katsmeow: yeas, heh
10:45 PM Tom_L: most of what he had came from ww2 tanks
10:45 PM Tom_L: not too many of the planes survived
10:45 PM * rue_ catches himself drooling
10:45 PM katsmeow: usa PT boats used aircraft engines too
10:45 PM rue_: mmm mecha with a tank engine
10:46 PM katsmeow: radials were tried in subs, that was a fiasco tho
10:46 PM rue_: has to be small tho, the mecha is only 12'
10:46 PM Tom_L: back pack
10:47 PM katsmeow: rue, if you can ge the btu under control , a 6" pelton wheel can make 600hp at 90,000 rpm
10:47 PM rue_: upper body is only 37"x25"
10:48 PM rue_: ok, I'm gonna go work on my 3d printer a bit more, I have to be back in an hour for bed, but then I can talk to 4am if I can stay awake
10:48 PM * rue_ looks at kat
10:48 PM * rue_ looks at watch
10:48 PM rue_: speaking of 4am...
10:48 PM katsmeow: i'll proly aim for lites-out in an hr
10:49 PM rue_: no computer in bed eh?
10:49 PM katsmeow: atm, the time is 10:49pm
10:49 PM * rue_ looks at rue_bed
10:49 PM katsmeow: no
10:49 PM Tom_L: huh, i though you were an hour ahead
10:49 PM Tom_L: must be pretty close to the timezone
10:50 PM rue_: k, I may bounce off irc a few times in the rue_shop3 rue_shop4
10:50 PM katsmeow: it's about an hr drive to my east
10:50 PM Tom_L: rue_, get a plan and stick to it
10:50 PM katsmeow: make a plan and beat it with a stick
10:51 PM katsmeow: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/US-Timezones.svg/776px-US-Timezones.svg.png