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[00:02:25] <rue_shop3> the neuron is a straight inductor, .01mm long, pulsed with a 10pA current
[00:02:38] <^kat^> deja vu
[00:02:55] <rue_shop3> so I need to detect that firing thru about 3-4" of jello
[00:03:34] <^kat^> how fast can you get light detectors and emitters? , then you can connect them with lil cheap fiberoptics
[00:03:49] <rue_shop3> how would that help?
[00:03:55] <^kat^> make a glowing light emitting brain
[00:04:07] <^kat^> it could solve all these problems for you
[00:04:08] <rue_shop3> I have to reverse engineer the one I ahve
[00:04:19] <^kat^> and not burn the spagetti
[00:04:52] <rue_shop3> I wonder what neuron crosstalk is like
[00:05:32] <rue_shop3> db
[00:06:24] <^kat^> super low, the neurons only respond if 1) they feel like it 2) they get hit with the right chemical ions 3) at the right places
[00:06:57] <^kat^> they don't respond to magnets or currents, becayse they don't really generate them in the brain
[00:06:59] <rue_shop3> they sit at about -70mV and go up to about 20mV when they fire
[00:07:30] <rue_shop3> its an electrical discharge, all electrical discharges emit a magnetic pulse
[00:08:07] <rue_shop3> 8-|
[00:08:42] <rue_shop3> the neurons in the spinal cord are up to 45cm long... apparently
[00:08:51] <rue_shop3> they might be easier to pick up
[00:09:16] <^kat^> and the muscles around them make signals too
[00:09:19] <rue_shop3> I need a pickup coil 40cm long with lots of turns, the hard way
[00:09:35] <rue_shop3> (=====)
[00:09:37] <^kat^> lathe makes easy
[00:09:42] <rue_shop3> the long way
[00:09:52] <rue_shop3> wrapped along the length
[00:09:57] <^kat^> i wound a lot of 16 awg steel that way
[00:10:05] <^kat^> miles, actually
[00:10:19] <rue_shop3> I cant swing a 45cm stick in the lathe
[00:10:44] <^kat^> take the tail off, use a steadyrest
[00:11:06] <rue_shop3> the wire has to be wrapped end to end, not around it
[00:11:41] <rue_shop3> your trying to make as many wires parallel to the neurons of interest as possable
[00:12:01] <^kat^> ooh
[00:12:10] <^kat^> umm, i am?
[00:12:30] <rue_shop3> the goal is to read the firing neurons
[00:12:48] <^kat^> ok, can yu access the opposite end of the spindle?
[00:13:08] <rue_shop3> the neuron runs down your back
[00:13:18] <rue_shop3> you want 550 wire runs parallel to it
[00:13:24] <^kat^> run a long U bolt thru the spindle to clamp the rod, set on 1 turn per few seconds
[00:13:36] <rue_shop3> lathe dosn't go that slow
[00:13:43] <rue_shop3> but I have a robotic arm...
[00:13:48] <^kat^> :-/
[00:14:04] <rue_shop3> that can move a spool around a board 550 times
[00:14:22] <^kat^> do what did: 24v scooter motor and some chian drive rpm reduction
[00:14:36] <rue_shop3> robot arm
[00:14:48] <rue_shop3> its a 36" reach arm, got to be good for something
[00:15:05] <rue_shop3> its got 300kg actuators on it
[00:15:13] <rue_shop3> its got programmable motion
[00:15:50] <rue_shop3> my 100G neurons need food
[00:16:10] <^kat^> what do you think of a 3/4 inch hydraulic cylinder with a 3" stroke, for moving an elbow?
[00:16:39] <rue_shop3> the pins would have to be really slop free
[00:17:14] <rue_shop3> how many bits to address 100G neurons kat?
[00:17:21] <rue_shop3> if each neuron was a ram byte
[00:17:40] <rue_shop3> which, technically speaking, a bit would prolly do fine
[00:17:43] <^kat^> 37
[00:17:50] <rue_shop3> but lets say byte
[00:18:02] <rue_shop3> 37 isn't that bad
[00:18:08] <rue_shop3> your computer has 48 right?
[00:18:17] <^kat^> 2^37 = 137,438,953,472 bytes
[00:18:21] <^kat^> no, 32
[00:18:22] <rue_shop3> ok
[00:18:33] <rue_shop3> so, your address bus is big enough for emulating a brain
[00:18:55] <^kat^> i ws thinking using 48bit integers in Tiggr just to use ONE math type, not the 16 in C
[00:19:23] <^kat^> your computer, my computer, are 32bit address and data
[00:19:26] <^kat^> not 37
[00:19:36] <rue_shop3> oh, so your computer is too small then
[00:19:56] <rue_shop3> I wonder how the interneural mapping could be done
[00:20:35] <rue_shop3> and every neuron would have to be evaluated at 200Hz
[00:20:38] <^kat^> fuck rue, unless you have a 64bit puter, you have a 32 bit puter
[00:20:59] <rue_shop3> so, it'd take a special machine to evaluate 100G of ram in 5ms
[00:21:20] <^kat^> that's what they have been sayng for decades, yeas
[00:21:32] <rue_shop3> how could it be done....
[00:21:53] <rue_shop3> the operators are simple
[00:22:06] <rue_shop3> its not like its a standrard computer running a program
[00:22:26] <rue_shop3> how many 16Mhz processors would it take to evaluate 100G in 5ms?
[00:22:49] <^kat^> why not eval only the ones that need evaluating?
[00:22:58] <rue_shop3> assuming maybe it took 10 cycles to evaulate 1 neuron
[00:23:05] <rue_shop3> k
[00:23:25] <rue_shop3> I wonder how many fire at the same time
[00:23:48] <rue_shop3> I calcd based on EVERY neuron firing at 200Hz, which isn't true
[00:23:58] <rue_shop3> its a max
[00:24:48] <^kat^> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-80-260V-LCD-Digital-100A-Volt-Watt-Power-Meter-Ammeter-Voltmeter-110V-220V-/321969561028
[00:25:23] <rue_shop3> yea, we put one in for someone
[00:25:38] <rue_shop3> they complained that it wasn't showing up on their hydroelectric bill
[00:25:45] <rue_shop3> we explained things to them
[00:26:42] <rue_shop3> hmm 384w of light in the shop
[00:28:10] <rue_shop3> how much would 100G of ram cost?
[00:28:50] <rue_shop3> ProMOS 1G (2 X 512MB) DDR2 Laptop ram
[00:28:50] <rue_shop3> $3.61
[00:28:58] <rue_shop3> so about $400
[00:29:18] <^kat^> hdd are cheaper
[00:29:31] <rue_shop3> ought be in ram
[00:29:39] * ^kat^ nods
[00:30:09] <rue_shop3> how much power do you think 100G of ram would take?
[00:30:12] <rue_shop3> 2kw?
[00:30:46] <^kat^> 1.2kw, since you figure on keeping it all active full time
[00:30:57] <rue_shop3> hmm
[00:31:16] <^kat^> that's only 10amps @ 120vac
[00:31:39] <^kat^> Tiggr uses that al powered up with fans blaring
[00:31:39] <rue_shop3> dosn't make good for being a battery powered mecha tho
[00:32:08] <rue_shop3> maybe, like you say, page swapping could be done with a drive
[00:32:08] <^kat^> radio to the brain sitting on the desk
[00:32:14] <rue_shop3> remmeber that context thing I was talking about?
[00:32:37] <rue_shop3> if not all the brain is active at once, areas could be left in swap
[00:32:46] <^kat^> yanno, i missed dinner and it's after midnite
[00:33:03] <^kat^> [23:58] <^kat^> why not eval only the ones that need evaluating?
[00:33:16] <rue_shop3> yea, it goes hand in hand with that
[00:59:56] <rue_shop3> its sure axillerating to build a mechanical hand thats 2.5x the size of your current ones with the knowledge you will be manipulating with them in 'no tim'
[01:00:00] <rue_shop3> no time
[01:00:01] <rue_shop3> heh
[01:01:25] <^kat^> exhilarating
[01:01:52] <^kat^> x-hill-are-ate-ing
[01:02:35] <^kat^> but prolly different in Canadia
[01:11:26] * ^kat^ wavers gnites
[01:11:48] <^kat^> zzzzzzzzzzz
[17:23:50] <Moon_> Hay rue
[18:44:19] <rue_shop3> FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFff***
[18:44:39] <rue_shop3> The shop fileservers hard drive dropped dead
[18:44:49] <rue_shop3> apparently I have no backups of anything that was on it
[18:45:03] <rue_shop3> I now have to go thru a 10 hour process of rebuilding it
[18:45:11] <rue_shop3> FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFf
[18:56:41] <rue_shop3> its a 10K scsi server drive, I expected warning if it had problems
[19:17:00] <Moon_> XP
[20:48:16] <katsmeow> .
[20:54:11] <Moon_> ..
[21:44:07] <katsmeow> mou
[22:37:00] <katsmeow> wb
[22:48:16] <zhanx> My Internet sucks this year
[22:49:07] * katsmeow takes a moment to take a dirty pic
[22:54:05] <rue_house> fileserver is mostly back up
[22:54:27] <rue_house> the files are all fine, they are on a raid array
[22:54:34] <rue_house> everything on the OS drive was lost
[22:54:39] <rue_house> it just died
[22:55:28] <katsmeow> a spinnng platter or a ssdd?
[22:56:22] <rue_house> 10k scsi server drive
[22:56:53] <rue_house> 10k rpm
[22:57:07] <katsmeow> http://designerthinking.com/images/DSCF6724m.jpg <<== i added resistors, may need capacitors, adjust the top 330 for 10ma with a voltage drop from Vhv to 7.5v
[22:57:38] <katsmeow> nm, don't adjust any of it
[22:58:03] <katsmeow> if you go over +15 on it, the bottom TIP will overvolt the gate
[22:58:21] <katsmeow> that's fixable, but not going to botehr atm
[22:58:45] <rue_house> but have you assembled it yet?!
[22:59:00] <katsmeow> no
[22:59:02] <rue_house> I'd like to know how the fan+heatsink does
[23:19:49] <katsmeow> ok, i made it so it can be used at different voltages, up to the 100v the TIP series can handle, or higher if you pick the right transistors
[23:53:56] * katsmeow wavers gnites
