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[00:24:18] <Jymmm> rue_shop3: Tom_itx showed me a couple of pics and I started looking thru that directory. LOVE the "car radiator in the duct"!!!
[00:25:53] <rue_shop3> heh, it worked great, but it froze one winter
[00:26:06] <rue_shop3> the AC A frame coil worked best
[00:26:09] <rue_shop3> froze it too
[00:26:36] <Jymmm> rue_shop3: I was wondering if one took the "rocket stove" concept and tossed a bare WH heater that can be fired thru on the bottom would be one method?
[00:26:45] <Jymmm> http://www.plumbingzone.com/attachments/f31/8661d1295978934-inside-leaking-water-heater-old-wh-20110125-1-.jpg
[00:27:02] <rue_shop3> katsmeow-afk, arg, the cmos circuit has a problem, how do I delay a CMOS signal by .25us?
[00:27:14] <Jymmm> capacitor?
[00:27:23] <katsmeow-afk> i'd use a LS122, 121, 123, etc
[00:27:44] <rue_shop3> for .25us?
[00:27:52] <katsmeow-afk> or change your timing somewhere. figure ut why it's not dead on
[00:28:12] <rue_shop3> I put too many gates somewhere
[00:28:35] <Jymmm> rue_shop3: did you use glycol mix after "The First Freezes" ?
[00:28:54] <katsmeow-afk> takes effort to make the col in the heating duct freeze
[00:29:07] <rue_shop3> I cant, the system holds over 50gal (currently over 100gal) of water
[00:29:15] <katsmeow-afk> glycol isn't made for use in firebox coils, i bet
[00:29:55] <Jymmm> Fine, 191 proof alcohol as an antifreeze in a 800F firebox!
[00:30:29] <rue_shop3> that might be bad, my design dumps the coolant into the firebox if it overheats
[00:30:51] <rue_shop3> with the intention to put out the fire
[00:30:53] <Jymmm> rue_shop3: Got Marshmellows?
[00:31:04] <rue_shop3> not from 3 blocks away...
[00:31:04] <Jymmm> rue_shop3: OH I have a solution for you then
[00:31:14] <rue_shop3> hydrogen peroxide?
[00:31:23] <Jymmm> rue_shop3: #30 mesh sand
[00:31:28] <Jymmm> LOX?
[00:31:46] <rue_shop3> ?
[00:31:49] <katsmeow-afk> plain ole LP (propane)
[00:32:17] <Jymmm> a few weeks ago I had a (unknown at the time) blockage in the chimney of my wood stove....
[00:32:36] <rue_shop3> 50ns per gate of a 4069
[00:33:03] <rue_shop3> so 100ns per 4069 'buffer'
[00:33:19] <rue_shop3> and I need 2500 ns
[00:33:24] <rue_shop3> no
[00:33:30] <rue_shop3> I need 250ns
[00:33:40] <rue_shop3> .25us = 250ns...
[00:33:41] <katsmeow-afk> damnit, see what i mean, i told you, you disregard it
[00:33:42] <rue_shop3> ok
[00:33:44] <Jymmm> Cold box, and I usually light hot and fast, so I do, but kept slowly smothering down. So I toss in a bit bigger log to really get it going, then started getting backdraft smoke and finally smoke coming from the ceiling box....
[00:33:59] <rue_shop3> katsmeow-afk, I'm exploring other options too
[00:34:01] <rue_shop3> geesh
[00:34:18] <rue_shop3> I have 1 4096, and 4 4069 gates unused
[00:34:53] <Jymmm> Cant use water (flash steam), I had a 5gal bucket of sand. started pouring it soup can at a time into the firebox... worked EXCELLENT for putting otuthe fire and the ambers
[00:35:06] <rue_shop3> katsmeow-afk, and me and monostables have a bad history
[00:35:22] <rue_shop3> Jymmm, yup, that will
[00:35:49] <rue_shop3> Jymmm, find a company that does commercial fire equiptment inpections
[00:36:03] <rue_shop3> you can find their name on the tag on fire extinguishers in businesses
[00:36:38] <Jymmm> for?
[00:36:40] <rue_shop3> they will have extinguishers that are pulled out of businesses because they cannot be (or aren't worth) recertification, but some of them still work ok
[00:36:47] <Jymmm> ah
[00:36:52] <Jymmm> failed hydro
[00:36:56] <rue_shop3> free, your disposing of them for them
[00:36:58] <rue_shop3> no
[00:37:05] <rue_shop3> ones with plastic heads dont reseal
[00:37:13] <rue_shop3> they aren't even worth trying
[00:37:18] <Jymmm> ah
[00:37:51] <rue_shop3> <- inspector :)
[00:37:57] <Jymmm> as extra extinguishers aroudn the house?
[00:38:40] <katsmeow-afk> http://members.tripod.com/zuke_2/eaeco/minivehicle.htm
[00:38:41] <katsmeow-afk> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=MINI+TRACK+VEHICLE++eeco&iax=1&ia=images
[00:40:17] <Jymmm> rue_shop3: It's been bad weather since so I can't even get on the roof to see what happened , and we think the wood stove is causeing respritoy issues with our birds.
[00:41:40] <Jymmm> wood is still the cheapest source of BTUs and I'd love to heat the shop too, so an outdoor wood fired boiler just seems the way to go.
[00:42:07] <Jymmm> ghetto, cause I 'm not paying $10K USD for those fancy ones =)
[00:44:25] <Jymmm> ghettoFabulous generator cover... I like it!!!
http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/heatplant/dscn0236.jpg
[00:44:56] <rue_shop3> katsmeow-afk, thats a cool design
[00:45:11] <rue_shop3> uses lots of tires
[00:45:19] <rue_shop3> that must have been from a huge tire
[00:45:23] <katsmeow-afk> or, two on each side
[00:45:40] <katsmeow-afk> earthmover of some sort
[00:45:58] <katsmeow-afk> farm tractor tires can be 12ft around
[00:46:00] <rue_shop3> I like the red one with the dump
[00:46:32] <rue_shop3> Jymmm, in the winter here, nature brings down some trees for us
[00:46:36] <rue_shop3> usually on power lines
[00:46:56] <rue_shop3> how did that get in there...
[00:47:18] <Jymmm> Same here, PG&E tries to cut them down preventaviely (free firewood)
[00:47:30] <rue_shop3> yup
[00:48:27] <rue_shop3> kat, I cant take on any new projects now, but I want to make one!
[00:48:39] <Jymmm> Oh, what do you define as "overtemp" on the firebox?
[00:49:07] <rue_shop3> well, it looks like the line I forgot to invert needs to be delayed by atleast 150ns
[00:49:09] <katsmeow-afk> chimney is glowing
[00:49:25] <Jymmm> lol
[00:49:27] <rue_shop3> Jymmm, no, if the heat exchanger starts to boil
[00:49:38] <rue_shop3> I have a hot water tank safety valve
[00:49:43] <rue_shop3> its dumps into the firebox
[00:50:01] <Jymmm> the T&R (sorta kinda) valve?
[00:50:03] <rue_shop3> the firebox gets hot enough to melt rock, thats fine with me
[00:50:04] <katsmeow-afk> rue, it's an old trick to delay everything with a row of flipflops, or a octal buffer or latch, that way all the utputs gotta turn on off at the same time
[00:50:25] <rue_shop3> well, funny enough, I think the flipflop is whats screwing the timing up
[00:50:54] <rue_shop3> I'm guessing it has a delay of about 150 to 200ns
[00:51:07] <katsmeow-afk> so use the otehr one to screw up the other signal the same amont?
[00:51:16] <Jymmm> hahaha
[00:51:20] <rue_shop3> "propigation delay typ 200ns, max 350ns"
[00:51:21] <katsmeow-afk> 150ns is high even for cmos
[00:51:23] <rue_shop3> *sigh*
[00:51:28] <katsmeow-afk> damn
[00:51:34] <katsmeow-afk> you using olde stuff
[00:51:55] <rue_shop3> yea, its slow, it dosn't ring at 5Mhz on transitions
[00:51:58] <katsmeow-afk> change to 74hc or hct for the flipfp
[00:52:00] <rue_shop3> all underdamped
[00:52:04] <rue_shop3> cant
[00:52:10] <rue_shop3> overshoot and ring
[00:52:14] <rue_shop3> screw everything up
[00:52:27] <katsmeow-afk> underdamped and dead slow and caung you problems, gotha, snafu
[00:52:36] <rue_shop3> not so much
[00:52:39] <rue_shop3> its solving more
[00:52:51] <Jymmm> are you using a blower on your firebox?
http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/heatplant/dscn0579.jpg
[00:53:02] <rue_shop3> I'll push the pwm signal thru 3 inverters, I need to fix th polarity anyhow
[00:53:16] <rue_shop3> Jymmm, yes, its all forced negitive pressure
[00:53:25] <rue_shop3> I pull on the cooled exhaust
[00:53:44] <katsmeow-afk> which is how one does downdraft
[00:53:51] <rue_shop3> dont ask me why, but experimentation shows the fire responds better to pulling on exhuast than pushing on intake air
[00:54:04] <rue_shop3> by about 150%
[00:54:21] <rue_shop3> it defies all the logic I can come up with
[00:55:32] <Jymmm> makes sense in everythign I've every seen, including a 5000 gallon SS tank collapsing due to someone forgetting to turn off the vac pump =)
[00:55:45] <Jymmm> (no, not me =)
[00:56:11] <rue_house> if the LM393 has a delay of about 50ns, that would explain what I see
[00:56:58] <rue_house> my applogies, I been working on this power supply about 3 years, and I'm getting somewhere
[00:57:10] <rue_house> lots of dead ends tho
[00:57:17] <Jymmm> rue_shop3: Does the firebox HAVE to have a blower? Couldn't the "rocket stove" / superheated air be enough for secondary combustion?
[00:57:21] <rue_house> were talking a pine tree of them
[00:57:31] <rue_house> yes, the fire will go out without the blower
[00:57:40] <rue_house> its used to turn the fire on and off tho
[00:58:01] <rue_house> it preheats the intake air thru the bottom shells
[00:58:17] <rue_house> you need 3 air intakes
[00:58:41] <rue_house> one for the space the wood above the fire is in, (not much) one for the main conbustion, and one for the secondary
[00:58:45] <katsmeow-afk> you cannot preload rue's box with a fire smewhere to make the draft that pulls the draft down thru the real firebox
[01:00:29] <Jymmm> Hmmm, maybe I'm thinkng of something ghettoer/ simpler
[01:00:55] <katsmeow-afk> fan and preheat is better overall
[01:01:51] <katsmeow-afk> my situation is such that if i just brought rue's fans and pump inside, i would not need the fire, i just heat with the waste off the motors
[01:02:52] <Jymmm> Well, what I was thinking was like a rocket stove that accepts logs (not twigs), and a bare WH tank that has the hole all the way thru it
[01:04:06] <katsmeow-afk> common gas water heater tank is nowhere near as good at moving heat as a tube firebox
[01:04:29] <katsmeow-afk> yo can do supercheap, but get poor results
[01:04:31] <rue_house> that boiler is NOT safe indoors,
[01:04:41] <Jymmm> "that" ?
[01:04:49] <Jymmm> you mean yours? or my idea?
[01:04:57] <rue_house> when its going, and you open the firebox, the sudden inrush of air causes the wood gas to ignite
[01:05:00] <rue_house> WOOF
[01:05:10] <rue_house> 24" flame out the door
[01:05:17] <katsmeow-afk> actually, either, because you cannot shut the wood fire off instantly
[01:05:49] <Jymmm> but that what I was saying the wood gas should already be ignited
[01:05:59] <katsmeow-afk> "should"
[01:06:13] <rue_house> no, its builds up in the predrying area above the fire
[01:06:15] <katsmeow-afk> BOOOM "well, that should not have happened"
[01:06:32] <Jymmm> in your design you mean?
[01:06:51] <rue_house> because its a downdraft, the new wood is piled ontop of the burning wood, which causes it to dry before it hits the fire
[01:06:54] <rue_house> yea
[01:07:10] <rue_house> the air is intentionally kept rare in that area so that it WONT burn
[01:07:14] <katsmeow-afk> the preheating air causes it to dry even faster
[01:07:53] <rue_house> the main combustion intake is set for a distance from the fire grate thats proportional to the max output rate desired for it
[01:07:54] <Jymmm> Ah, so it doubles as a smoker too ;)
[01:08:23] <rue_house> the more ditance between the main air intake, the more wood is burning at onc
[01:08:24] <rue_house> e
[01:08:36] <katsmeow-afk> rue, post a pic of your chimney smoking at full fire
[01:08:48] <rue_house> I cant
[01:08:51] <rue_house> its clear
[01:08:59] <katsmeow-afk> that's my point
[01:09:17] <rue_house> but I cant when its starting up either, the smoke is too thick to see 1" infront of you
[01:09:26] <Jymmm> I totally get the secondary combustion and the zero smoke
[01:09:35] <katsmeow-afk> the hotter the firebox is, the more complete combustion, the less particulates and etceras
[01:09:49] <rue_house> you can see it going into secondary
[01:09:51] <Jymmm> Yeah, that's what I would do with my wood stove
[01:09:59] <rue_house> bursts of clear exhaust
[01:10:16] <Jymmm> and the jets out of the air tubes (this is an EPA stove)
[01:10:32] <Jymmm> above 540F iirc
[01:10:37] <rue_house> one day my neighbours are gonna gang up on me while I'm trying to start it tho
[01:10:49] <rue_house> it smokes up about 3 blocks
[01:11:09] <katsmeow-afk> why not lite it off with propane?
[01:11:15] <rue_house> ogigional design had a propane preheat, but I ditched it after an explosion
[01:11:19] <katsmeow-afk> o
[01:11:20] <Jymmm> See, I can't weld nor do heavy metal work, so there is no way I can get where you're at
[01:11:30] * rue_house nods
[01:11:53] <rue_house> One day, maybe, I'll be as good as kat
[01:12:03] * katsmeow-afk sips some amaretto, and offers some to Tom
[01:12:38] <Jymmm> will I REALLY need it THAT hot if I'm using a 40-60gal tank?
[01:12:59] <rue_house> are you using it for hydronic heating?
[01:13:10] <rue_house> or just hot water?
[01:13:28] <Jymmm> I'll be doing the radiator in the duct work and "whatever" in the garage.
[01:13:41] <rue_house> ok, just like me then
[01:14:02] <Jymmm> I was considering radiant floor heating till I saw that radiator =)
[01:14:09] <rue_house> ok, something changed my mouse speed...
[01:14:22] <rue_house> did I have a pic of the radiator in the duct work?
[01:14:27] <Jymmm> yes
[01:14:31] <rue_house> ah good
[01:14:35] <rue_house> its not enough
[01:14:42] <rue_house> I need 2 to keep up with the boiler
[01:14:53] <rue_house> dont know how to do it without choking the fan
[01:15:07] <Jymmm> the HVAC blower you mean?
[01:15:13] <rue_house> well I do, but I dont know a way that involves the amount of labour I'm willing to put into it
[01:15:24] <rue_house> the heating fan yea
[01:15:25] <katsmeow-afk> i suggested nailing 2000ft of 1/4 tube to the wall and putting a skim coat of plaster over it
[01:15:43] <rue_house> the prices of copper are crazy tho
[01:15:49] <Jymmm> so it's that much of a restriction on the system?
[01:15:54] <katsmeow-afk> polyethylene
[01:16:10] <rue_house> Jymmm, not if you spead it out
[01:16:29] <rue_house> origioanlly, I was going to put an automotive heater coil on every vent
[01:16:37] <rue_house> only heat the air as it came OUT of the system
[01:16:58] <rue_house> didn't round up enough heater cores
[01:17:20] <katsmeow-afk> make a jig to hold an entire roll of pex above the ceiling fan, run hot water thru that, run fan
[01:17:44] <Jymmm> katsmeow-afk: you forgot the heat spreaders
[01:17:48] <rue_house> I'm trying to keep it civil too :)
[01:17:59] <katsmeow-afk> no i didn't, i use the fan
[01:18:19] <katsmeow-afk> heat spreaders are for no-air-over situations
[01:18:22] <rue_house> katsmeow-afk, or I could just make radiators from those sheets of corriplast and atach them to the cieling
[01:18:27] <Jymmm> ah
[01:18:29] <rue_house> IR panels
[01:18:41] <katsmeow-afk> corroplast may melt at the temps you run
[01:18:53] <rue_house> yea, it would have to be mixed down
[01:18:57] <rue_house> 30-40c
[01:19:04] <Jymmm> sounds liek EVERYTHING melts at the his temps
[01:19:15] <katsmeow-afk> pex should take the heat, and reduce it to where you might use the corroplast
[01:19:31] <rue_house> nothing like looking out and seeing a huge plume of steam comming from the boiler
[01:19:39] <rue_house> that only happened about 5 times tho
[01:19:49] <katsmeow-afk> Jymmm , wood can get very hot, i have melted steel down with wood fires too
[01:19:53] <rue_house> I was using poly pipe, that accounted for 3 failures
[01:19:56] <Jymmm> who so damn hot though?
[01:20:00] <rue_house> now its pex
[01:20:09] <rue_house> Jymmm, thermal impedence
[01:20:31] <rue_house> a bad example of thermal impedence is a firebox with a water jacket
[01:20:41] <rue_house> it cools the fire too much and it cant burn clean
[01:20:54] <Jymmm> ah
[01:20:59] <katsmeow-afk> the walls get sold soot real fast and it quits heatng
[01:21:05] <Jymmm> less than 540F
[01:21:14] <Jymmm> (or is it 520F?)
[01:21:24] <rue_house> the min temp of the fire dosn't match the max temp of the water
[01:21:37] <rue_house> thats why in nuclear reators they use liquid tin
[01:21:45] * rue_house looks to kat
[01:21:56] <katsmeow-afk> or sodium, or helium
[01:22:06] <Jymmm> sodium?
[01:22:21] <Jymmm> chest ntus roasting over a nuclear meldown...
[01:22:24] <katsmeow-afk> it's a liquid at high temps, and doesn't boil
[01:22:39] <katsmeow-afk> used in a few solar furnaces too
[01:22:40] <rue_house> helium is a REALLY good material for absorbing heat, but it tends to be a really high pressure at anything more than - 1million c
[01:23:07] <rue_house> helium is one of the few things that holds more heat than water
[01:23:12] <rue_house> or was it hydrogen?
[01:23:18] <rue_house> anyhow
[01:23:47] <Jymmm> Ok, dumb question then.... how can a gas (LPG or NG) wh not have this issue?
[01:24:14] <katsmeow-afk> in commercial high efficency burners, it does
[01:24:23] <Jymmm> the thermal imdenance?
[01:24:23] <rue_house> at low temps its ok, exposture to high temps reconfigures it
[01:24:29] <katsmeow-afk> in home units, they are just too cheap to get really hot
[01:24:51] <rue_house> Jymmm, reaize that the boiling point of water goes up to 200c if its at 200psi
[01:25:06] <katsmeow-afk> some natural gas burners make 850F steam in power plants
[01:25:19] <rue_house> to keep helium a liuid at 300c means having it at thousands of psi pressure
[01:25:48] <katsmeow-afk> they don;t keep it liquid in a nuke, they run gas under pressure and at supersonic speeds
[01:25:49] * rue_house deffers on specific values
[01:25:56] <rue_house> ah
[01:26:20] <katsmeow-afk> they are using helium because it moves easily, there's no hot spots
[01:26:22] <rue_house> oh its sooo past bedtime
[01:26:30] <Jymmm> Ok, maybe I need to take a step back here.... If you (currently) have 100 gallon system,
[01:26:30] <katsmeow-afk> and not all use helium
[01:26:52] <Jymmm> what is the water temp at the fatherest point in the system?
[01:29:57] <katsmeow-afk> i goto bed too, gnites
[01:35:32] <rue_house> I run the water at 80c
[01:36:17] <Jymmm> is that going in or coming out?
[01:37:13] <rue_house> out
[01:37:24] <rue_house> any higher than that and the exchanger starts to boil
[01:37:42] <rue_house> (envision screeming and mayham and panic)
[01:37:50] <Jymmm> heh
[01:38:39] <Jymmm> how are you maintaing that temp? cold mixing?
[01:44:58] <rue_house> the computer turns the draft off when it hits about 76
[01:45:19] <rue_house> waits for the temp to come down to about 68 before turning it back on
[01:45:39] <Jymmm> ok, that's the air temp, what about water temp control?
[01:46:02] <Jymmm> anti-boiling
[01:46:27] <Jymmm> anti-screaming, etc =)
[01:46:45] <rue_house> no, that water
[01:46:57] <rue_house> the computer shuts down th fire,
[01:47:07] <Jymmm> O_o
[01:47:13] <rue_house> if the tank overheats the hwt safety opens and dumps water into the firebox
[01:47:25] <Jymmm> right, I get that.
[01:47:59] <Jymmm> But the rest of the time, under normal operation, how is the water temp controlled/adjusted?
[01:48:06] <rue_house> the fire is about 1200c to 1700c pre - heat exchanger -
[01:48:17] <rue_house> its about 250-300c comming out
[01:48:37] <rue_house> its controled by the fire being turned on and off
[01:48:49] <rue_house> there is no fine grain temp control
[01:48:58] <Jymmm> how is a wood fire turned on/off?
[01:49:07] <rue_house> the 100gal is to give me 1 hour of heat after the fire is out
[01:49:09] <rue_house> draft fan
[01:49:21] <rue_house> the fire cant burn without that fan going
[01:49:44] <Jymmm> and you designed it intentionally that way?
[01:50:01] <rue_house> its part of the design
[01:50:08] <Jymmm> ok,
[01:50:19] <Jymmm> 100gal == 1 hour, really?
[01:50:33] <rue_house> yup
[01:50:38] <rue_house> at full temp
[01:50:49] <Jymmm> that much loss, or just no insulation, etc?
[01:50:56] <rue_house> after an hour its got about 40-50c left, which isn't enough to make usefull heat
[01:51:03] <rue_house> heating the house
[01:51:27] <rue_house> standing, it drops about 1c evry 2 hours
[01:52:43] <Jymmm> 50c not enough once it's going thru the ductwork ?
[01:53:04] <rue_house> there is some heat, but nothing usefull
[01:53:36] <Jymmm> what would the air temp be?
[01:53:38] <rue_house> by then the air in the house is 25-28c
[01:53:52] <Jymmm> is it linear?
[01:54:13] <Jymmm> 50c water ~= 25c air ??
[01:54:28] <Jymmm> 2:1 ratio (apx) ?
[01:54:41] <rue_house> no
[01:54:57] <rue_house> I'v not collected temp rise data on the house exchanger
[01:55:14] <Jymmm> btw, if it's late for you, we can pick this up some other time
[01:55:40] <rue_house> I'm just winding down for bed
[01:55:49] <rue_house> I'm not at all tired
[01:56:02] <Jymmm> I know those days
[01:56:28] <Jymmm> I'm working on temp logging too. wireless for soem things
[01:57:28] <rue_house> I have years of logs, every 1 min
[01:57:49] <rue_house> boiler in, boiler out, house in, house out, all house air temps
[01:58:25] <Jymmm> I saw that graph, what did you use?
[01:58:54] <rue_house> its a postgres database
[01:59:12] <Jymmm> and for the graphing itself?
[01:59:49] <rue_house> with multiple programs that push data from lmsensors to the database
[02:00:03] <rue_house> a php program pulls the values from the databse and generates the graph
[02:00:10] <Jymmm> ah
[02:00:35] <Jymmm> I was looking at MAX6277 and/or DHT22
[02:01:00] <Jymmm> as I want to collect RH too (to sense leakages)
[02:03:15] <rue_house> no
[02:03:21] <rue_house> i2c
[02:03:36] <rue_house> I have two i2c netowrks on parallel ports on pc's
[02:04:22] <rue_house> LM75 sensors
[02:04:34] <rue_house> the linux kernel reads them all for me
[02:06:24] <Jymmm> ah
[02:09:08] <Jymmm> I was also looking at the DS18B20
[03:21:28] <rue_house> lm75 are cheap
[03:21:29] <rue_house> ""
[03:21:54] <rue_house> and fit in a verry small box on the wall
[11:15:29] <Jymmm> rue_house: IS this how you are "dumping" on the fire to prevent boiling?
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cash-Acme-3-4-in-Bronze-NCLX-5LX-Temperature-and-Pressure-Relief-Valve-with-2-1-2-in-Shank-MNPT-Inlet-x-FNPT-Outlet-23577-0150/203164748
[12:22:44] <Jymmm> Hmmm, a hot water heater with an internal heat exchanger and blower?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nLuRvM1iMc
[12:55:38] <Jymmm> Ok, this is the same as above, but they say it's 96% efficient compared to conventional being only 75% thermally efficient. I wish they showed a crosscut and flow diagram =(
[12:55:45] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRLJgd1M1Y4
[18:24:47] <katsmeow> Ok, this one is officially awesome.
[18:24:47] <katsmeow> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=swincar&iax=1&ia=images
[18:24:47] <katsmeow> Obviously, it needs a quiet gasoline version for long trips.
[18:27:03] <katsmeow> the green one works for me too
[18:55:01] <Jymmm> WTH?! I only find limited number of recirculator pumps, both on amazon and ebay.
[18:55:31] <Jymmm> I must be searching for the wrong thing/phrase
[18:56:39] <katsmeow> we will never know
[18:58:50] <Jymmm> Argh... I searched for "circulator pump" and got limtied results, clicked on "circulator pump hot water" and now I got a crapload?!
http://search.ebay.com/circulator pump hot water
[18:58:59] <Jymmm> Argh... I searched for "circulator pump" and got limtied results, clicked on "circulator pump hot water" and now I got a crapload?!
http://search.ebay.com/circulator+pump+hot+water
[18:59:55] <Jymmm> And I'm not sure what's up with these "flanges" instead of fittings.
[19:00:19] <katsmeow> flanges are typical industrial fittings
[19:00:59] <Jymmm> Okey, but these sure don't look like "industrial" pumps to me.
[19:01:21] <katsmeow> ok
[19:01:52] <Jymmm> Is badger a well know brand?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-GPM-3-speed-Circulating-Pump-use-with-outdoor-furnaces-hot-water-heat-solar-/281584686573
[19:03:49] <katsmeow> wow, prices have come down on those
[19:04:31] <Jymmm> Water to air heat exchangers, various sizes
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Water-to-Air-Heat-Exchangers/301705624921
[19:05:28] * katsmeow gets large house A-coils for ~$25
[19:05:45] <Jymmm> those "A frame" things?
[19:06:03] <Jymmm> where from?
[19:06:11] <katsmeow> if by "things" you mean evaporator coils, yeas
[19:06:30] <katsmeow> if you are not in Alabama, you wouldn't know them
[19:28:50] <rue_shop3> yea, same valve as on a hot water tank
[19:30:13] <katsmeow> that is a pump, rue, not a valve
[19:30:52] <katsmeow> and
http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/the-swincar-spider-is-an-offroad-monster-with-crazy-art-1721824266 is a 4x4, not a valve
[19:45:37] <katsmeow> i wonder what it is with amerikans, for cars and trucks they insist the engine be in front, for motorcycles it's under the driver's knees, and everything else it's in the rear
[19:46:02] <katsmeow> (seadoos count as motorcycles)
[19:53:57] * katsmeow carefully arranges peanuts on the channel floor, in a 11.38" diameter circle
[21:18:00] * rue_shop3 tries to wake up
[21:37:09] * Jymmm pours a bottle of MrBubbles into rue_shop3's boiler and waits for the excitement to begin
[21:39:46] <Jymmm> rue_shop3: You awake now?
[22:04:30] <katsmeow> worked out how to minimize the amount of steel used for the bridging/restraints between the roller supports in the plate roller
[22:04:38] <katsmeow> i hope
[22:05:31] <Jymmm> need a deflection calculator?
[22:07:12] <katsmeow> sure, the force to permanently deflect the center of a 5ft wide 1/4 thick steel plate by an inch
[22:07:27] <katsmeow> supports 9" apart
[22:09:03] <Jymmm> Deflection calculator
https://8020.net/deflection-calculator
[22:09:59] <rue_shop3> hey
[22:10:10] <rue_shop3> katsmeow, the extra 150ns worked, 3 inverter gates
[22:10:48] <Jymmm> katsmeow: If that's not generic enough...
http://www.aps.anl.gov/APS_Engineering_Support_Division/Mechanical_Operations_and_Maintenance/Calculators/ElasticBeam2.html
[22:11:07] <rue_shop3> katsmeow, I'm guessing you have thick supports between all those bearings, its gonna be a thing of beuty
[22:11:45] <rue_shop3> the only problem I see now is that the output from the 4013 is not 50%
[22:11:59] <rue_shop3> its like, 49.5% on Q and /Q
[22:12:11] <rue_shop3> so I cant hit 100% duty between the two channelss
[22:12:16] <katsmeow> less *between* them that you'd imagine, but more inline under the 1.25" rollers
[22:12:21] <rue_shop3> right now, I'm ok to live with that
[22:12:53] <katsmeow> you don't wanna hit 100%, that would be dc, not pwm
[22:13:05] <rue_shop3> what IS the sheer strength of 5/16" rod?
[22:13:17] <rue_shop3> katsmeow, I'd like to peak out at 100%
[22:13:35] <rue_shop3> I was browsing thru datasheets last night for alternate ideas to the whole thing
[22:13:50] <rue_shop3> turns out, a 3842 can be run as an open loop 250Khz pwm converter :/
[22:13:51] <katsmeow> 1/2 rod
[22:14:08] <katsmeow> i am supporting the 1/2 rod each side of the bearings
[22:14:14] <rue_shop3> took me 3x dip14 and a dip8 to do that
[22:14:32] <rue_shop3> |[]|[]|[]|[]\
[22:14:36] <rue_shop3> opps, I bent one
[22:14:50] <Jymmm> rue_shop3: grade?
[22:15:12] <katsmeow> well, yeas and no
[22:16:03] <katsmeow> the bearings alternate, so it's like ==|'|,|'|,|'|=
[22:16:15] <katsmeow> only 50 bearings across the 5ft width
[22:16:32] <katsmeow> and not all the straps shown actually installed
[22:16:34] <Jymmm> common structural steel 0.75 T shear in terms of T, so says machinerys handbook
[22:17:23] <katsmeow> soi support both sides i get 1.4 tons of support, fine, the earing maxes at 800lbs
[22:17:29] <katsmeow> bearing
[22:20:40] <Jymmm> Is this like everythign else from china... overstated and beware of quality?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-4-110V-Hot-Water-Circulation-Pump-SS-NPT-Circulator-Pump-For-Solar-Heater-/111544333015
[22:24:23] * katsmeow waits on rue to answer
[22:24:48] <Jymmm> heh
[22:25:04] <katsmeow> and what is young's modulus? i seen none arond here
[22:27:45] <katsmeow> ok, neither mechanics site was useful
[22:45:39] <Jymmm> of what material?
[22:46:08] <Jymmm> http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/young-modulus-d_417.html
[22:46:50] <katsmeow> plain structural steel, generic 30,000 psi
[22:48:15] <Jymmm> It's on that page "Steel, Structural ASTM-A36"
[22:48:39] <Jymmm> 200
[22:49:39] <Jymmm> Even gives for Plutonium, hopefully I will NEVER EVER need that bit of informaiton =)
[22:49:40] <katsmeow> how do you know that?
[22:50:08] <Jymmm> how do I know what?
[22:50:53] <katsmeow> [22:24] <Jymmm> 200
[22:51:05] <Jymmm> It's on that page I linked to
[22:51:22] <katsmeow> there's alot on that page, why don't you know it's 57 ?
[22:51:54] <Jymmm> Lokk on the page, search for "Steel, Structural ASTM-A36"
[22:52:45] <katsmeow> why not one of the other steels?
[22:52:58] <Jymmm> You asked for structural steel didn't you?
[22:53:15] <katsmeow> yeas
[22:53:34] <katsmeow> but i am told it's 30kpsi, not 36
[22:53:44] <Jymmm> that was the closest "generic", plus if gave ASTM-A36 to be more specific.
[22:53:48] <Jymmm> it*
[22:54:23] <katsmeow> i do not trust it, since it is data i didn't provide and don't have and cannot verify
[22:54:46] <Jymmm> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A36_steel
[22:55:18] <katsmeow> in a way, it doesn't matter, i am locked into the materials i have
[22:58:46] <Jymmm> Did you get a data/cert from the supplier when you got the steel? It might have the data you seek.
[22:58:54] <katsmeow> no
[23:00:15] <katsmeow> the local mills make generic 30kpsi, the rest comes from Canadia and Germany and Turkey(!)
[23:00:54] <katsmeow> yep, apparently it is cheaper to import plate steel from Turkey here where there are several steel mills within a mile
[23:01:23] <Jymmm> I've still had specs available upon request in many cases, might be worth a shot.
[23:01:38] <Jymmm> Cheap labor and no EPA to deal with.
[23:02:01] <Jymmm> and lawsuits
[23:02:31] * katsmeow nods
[23:06:14] <zhanx> Evening
