#garfield Logs

Nov 15 2015

01:54 rue_shop3 yes?
02:02 zhanx I got 270 ohm resistors labeled as 470 from china's finest
03:02 rue_shop3 ? rly?
03:02 rue_shop3 your sure its not red?
14:20 ^kat^ just enough smoke in the air to make one's stomach queasy, and no one is outside
15:05 rue_house I was working ont he power supply till 4:30am lst night
15:05 rue_house I tried LOTS of fet driver designs
15:05 rue_house and the result was halarious
15:05 rue_house there are two parts to the problem, the pwm needs to be taken from 5V levels to 12V levels, then current amplified to drive the fet
15:06 rue_house at 250Khz, with desired switching times of 0.1us, this isn't easy
15:06 rue_house the origional driver I designed just drove the fet at 5V, so I didn't have to worry about stepping up the voltage,
15:07 rue_house my first circuits to step up the votlage were transistor based
15:07 rue_house first bipolar and then fet (2N7000), niether of those yeilded good results (lots of ringing and skew)
15:08 rue_house so I tried an LM393 for stepping up the votlage, with a bipolar totem for driving
15:08 rue_house the problem was that the bipolar totem would ring badly
15:09 rue_house so then I tried a small fet totem pole, which I ran into a new problem, the lm393 can only drive 20mA, and that disn't work with the 300pf input capacitance of them
15:09 rue_house so I stood back and thought
15:10 rue_house *click* a 555 is a 12V capable latched window coparitor with a totem pole output driver thats rated at... 300mA!
15:10 rue_house the 555 was able to take the 5V levels, bump them up, and drive the MAIN fet, just fine!
15:10 rue_house (well, a bit of ring)
15:10 rue_house go figure, 555
15:17 rue_house its too bad it cant do 0-100% duty pwm
16:51 ^kat^ what happened to using the LM386 as the driver?
16:51 rue_house tooo slow for 250Khz
16:51 rue_house works for 30-40k
16:51 rue_house er 300hz - 40khz
16:51 rue_house I think it worked at 40Khz
18:50 rue_shop3 power went out again
19:48 ^kat^ my 5/8 rod is only .010 smaller than 5/8, and seems all the 2-bolt flage pillowblock bearings on ebay are $6.00 up to 1.25 ID
19:49 ^kat^ er, $6.xx
19:51 ^kat^ powerco unloaded a line repair truck a few months ago, i grabbed 2 doz 3ft 5/8 galvanised allthread
19:51 ^kat^ there's a spool of guy line there too, cannot use it for much that i can think of
19:53 rue_shop3 you know there aren't a lot of us difference between 250khz and 125Khz
19:54 rue_shop3 triplex, pretty useless stuff
19:54 rue_shop3 oh, guy line
19:54 ^kat^ not triplex, guy line
19:54 rue_shop3 yea, sorry
19:55 ^kat^ altho i have triplex underground because it's what i had
19:55 rue_shop3 I might bring the converter freq down
19:56 rue_shop3 just stripped down a printer
19:56 rue_shop3 there is now 1.5 feet^2 more space on the deck
19:56 ^kat^ you shold have ther obot arm build something interesting there tonite while you sleep
20:18 ^kat^ what to do with old ribbon cable : http://static.messynessychic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/dishes-7-900x898.jpg
20:19 rue_shop3 http://www.jiggerjuice.info/electronics/projects/power/buck-diode-high-nmos.png
20:20 rue_shop3 why is a darlington array driving a 1k resistor on 12V?
20:20 rue_shop3 hmm
20:21 ^kat^ to use up more parts :-/
20:21 ^kat^ the right way to do it was pateneted, so they added more parts to get around that
20:22 rue_shop3 :)
20:23 ^kat^ one transistor wold have been enough, or a 74F05/6/7
20:23 ^kat^ err, not a 5
20:23 rue_shop3 yea
20:24 rue_shop3 74ls is 10ns delay?
20:24 rue_shop3 thats .01us
20:24 ^kat^ o more
20:24 rue_shop3 per gate, say, inverter
20:24 ^kat^ better questo is that make the darlingtons make a 12v pulse, which they drve the mosfet to make a 12v pulse
20:25 rue_shop3 hmm, I was trying to work out a cicruit to individually drive gate driver fets with a micro delay between them
20:25 rue_shop3 what I ahve works, I just want better if I can get it
20:25 ^kat^ over 100 ns?
20:25 rue_shop3 I ordered some official fet drivers, I dont think they will arrive for this project
20:26 rue_shop3 right now I'm swinging 10-12V in 0.1-0.2 us
20:26 ^kat^ buffer - R - c_to_gnd - buffer - R - c_to_gnd - buffer - R - c_to_gnd - buffer - R - c_to_gnd - buffer - R - c_to_gnd - buffer - R - c_to_gnd
20:27 ^kat^ or a shift register
20:28 rue_shop3 I was thinking if I could drive with a circuit that drove a high and low transistor seperatly, with a break-before make when changing states
20:28 rue_shop3 100Mhz?
20:28 rue_shop3 shift reg?
20:29 ^kat^ 100Mhz if overkill for 125 Khz switching, i think
20:29 rue_shop3 no, it would break down the pwm resolution
20:29 rue_shop3 if I want a .05us delay between driving high and low
20:30 rue_shop3 e.g. turn the high driver off, delay .05us, turn the low driver on
20:30 ^kat^ why not make one pulse, trigger a 74LS221/123/etc to insert the delay off signal, then come back on with the otehr fet signal ?
20:30 rue_shop3 I dont see people doing much HIGH speed switching, even up to 250Khz
20:30 rue_shop3 your class D as 1Mhz?
20:31 at^
20:31 rue_shop3 bipolar tho, right?
20:31 ^kat^ early 1980's mosfet in T)-3 cans
20:31 ^kat^ T0-3
20:31 rue_shop3 heh, before they invented the digit 0
20:31 rue_shop3 :)
20:32 rue_shop3 romans were just NOT into the idea of 0
20:32 ^kat^ analong comparator (op37?) fttl to bipolar to mosfet
20:33 ^kat^ if the arabs asked the roman to ship 0 sheeps, i wonder how many they got
20:33 rue_shop3 the LM393 is among the fastest things I can find
20:33 rue_shop3 "YOU WANT THEM, BUT YOU SPECIFICALLY WANT _NONE_ OF THEM!?"
20:34 ^kat^ "i want these, please ship none of them to me"
20:34 ^kat^ "that is, qty _0_"
20:35 rue_shop3 all the fet drivers I see on google aren't good much past 50Khz
20:35 ^kat^ that's like "my area code is 20O"
20:35 rue_shop3 heh
20:36 rue_shop3 http://www.mikrocontroller.net/attachment/41474/mosfet_driver.gif
20:36 rue_shop3 ah, this starts to look inteligent
20:37 ^kat^ it does?
20:38 rue_shop3 the diodes help prevent saturation and pull the fet down faster
20:39 ^kat^ does reverse biasing the gate help?
20:39 rue_shop3 last night I was reversign the bias on the bipolars and fets, and neither of them did better with it
20:39 rue_shop3 in some cases the bipolars decided to just not turn on
20:39 rue_shop3 (!?!)
20:41 ^kat^ a small concert, limited attendance : http://static.messynessychic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/3-Venise-sous-Paris-Quatuor.jpg
20:41 rue_shop3 oh thats sh... solitary
20:43 rue_shop3 yesterday I pulled out of a bin a server smps card, I'm sure it should be 1Mhz or so, but its prettymuch all discrete
20:45 rue_shop3 http://static1.squarespace.com/static/50044127e4b047375882e7f1/51638af5e4b05832eeb0be15/51638af5e4b05832eeb0be3a/1365478135356/osc.png
20:45 rue_shop3 my waveforms werent THAT bad..
20:46 rue_shop3 oh, you know
20:46 rue_shop3 I dont have a bead on the fet drain pin
20:47 rue_shop3 wonder if I have any ferrite beads around
20:47 rue_shop3 oh, video driver, maybe I can try that again
20:49 ^kat^ http://static.messynessychic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/corner1.jpg
20:49 rue_shop3 HEY!
20:49 ^kat^ what?!
20:49 rue_shop3 thats like the idea I want for my house, mixing inside and outside so, aside from the seasonal temp diff, you cant tell if your in or out
20:49 ^kat^ yeas
20:50 ^kat^ its why i was ding so much ceiling glass here, till i found ut the dogs preffered i didn't, so the living room is very dark and unfinished
20:51 ^kat^ http://static.messynessychic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/panam.jpg <<== A 5MB hard drive being loaded onto a PanAm plane in 1956
20:51 ^kat^ looks like a drum , actually
20:52 rue_shop3 the bits must be as big as pencil lead
20:52 rue_shop3 nice that its packed properly in a crate and all :)
20:53 ^kat^ and secured to the lift so it cannot fall off
20:54 rue_shop3 that cable looks good for atleast 4 tonnes, look at the quality of that knot!
20:54 rue_shop3 http://www.cognipower.com/highSpeedFET_Drivers.php
20:55 rue_shop3 geez, their waveform isn't any better than mine
20:55 rue_shop3 and mines breadboarded
20:55 rue_shop3 wait, 10ns...
20:55 rue_shop3 ok, fine
20:58 ^kat^ when the moon is fulland sky cloudless, you can read a newspaper in the kitchen, because of the skylites i did get installed before the neighbors moved in
21:08 rue_shop3 http://www.tehnomagazin.com/images/200W-class-D-amplifier.jpg
21:08 rue_shop3 current source crazy, interesting
21:08 ^kat^ Apple iphone : http://static.messynessychic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/appletouch.jpg
21:08 rue_shop3 I suppose if the current driving high is just a *bit* stronger thant eh current pulling low, and you have a open collector transistor on it
21:09 rue_shop3 heh
21:10 ^kat^ i wonder what that sounds like
21:10 ^kat^ it's switching freq is going to vary a *lot* dependng on how warm it is
21:11 rue_shop3 http://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/files-rtvforum/class_d_amplifier_discrete_driver_9869.jpg
21:11 rue_shop3 aha
21:25 ^kat^ good grief
22:01 rue_shop3 a ferrite leg bead dose wonders for quenching source ringing
22:01 rue_shop3 I had a hard time finding one to
22:01 rue_shop3 tho
22:02 rue_shop3 12 computer power supplies to find just 1 bead
22:04 rue_shop3 ok, under light load, I have turnon in less than .1us and turnoff in about .15us
22:04 rue_shop3 I dont think its going to get better
22:04 rue_shop3 thats a 555 with a bipolar totem driver
22:04 rue_shop3 tho,
22:08 ^kat^ i thought the 555 was open collector pull down
22:09 rue_shop3 the discharge is, the output is totem
22:09 ^kat^ k
22:09 ^kat^ i used 566 and 567, not 555
22:09 rue_shop3 yea, I'v gone back and forth 3 times now, the bipolar driver dosnt' improve the time at all, I might as well just take it right off pin 3
22:10 rue_shop3 oo, itsn't 566 a pll?
22:10 rue_shop3 567 is a pll...
22:10 rue_shop3 14 pin pll?
22:10 ^kat^ dip8, iirc
22:10 rue_shop3 I like the 588
22:10 ^kat^ either makes a nice lil vco
22:10 rue_shop3 thats a cool chip
22:20 rue_shop3 there IS an almost inpercievable difference (improvement) with the bipolar driver after the 555
22:21 rue_shop3 I need slightly more drain inductance
22:21 rue_shop3 than this bead is giving me
22:22 rue_shop3 but I think I have my circuit
22:22 rue_shop3 this driver will work with the pwm genorator I have
22:23 rue_shop3 one of the things I'm mulling is how much capacitance should be in the output filter
22:23 rue_shop3 I dont know how fast I'll need it to react to current regulation changes
22:30 ^kat^ showing now, on a computer near me, Computer Chronicles - Parallel Processing, 1986
22:32 rue_shop3 hmm the guy ont hsi forum wants to do 800Khz at 300V...
22:32 rue_shop3 I think just the capacitance dissipation would be evil
22:34 ^kat^ well, it's in the AM broadcast band, get a transmitter
22:35 rue_shop3 I suppose if you utilize resonation you can get 300V
22:35 ^kat^ at least 300
22:39 ^kat^ Thinking Machines went bust so long ago, it's weird seeing a guy trying to sell the concept and computer
22:40 ^kat^ the Alexi 6400
22:40 ^kat^ $3 million
22:41 ^kat^ ELXSI
22:48 ^kat^ "5 million calculations per second, FAR beyond the computers of today"
22:53 rue_house hmm
22:57 ^kat^ the usa IRS bout a special laptop with 5.25 floppies, they hope this will keep the 5.25 format frombeing overtaken by the 3.5 microfloppies
22:59 ^kat^ Babble 1234 will be talking calmly to pigs, in an effort to get them to eat more, so they can be slaughtered earlier
22:59 rue_house why would anyone prefer the 5"?
22:59 rue_house WHO WAS PRESERVING THE 8"!!!!!
23:00 ^kat^ i got some 10's
23:00 rue_house :( I took apart my 8" drive, all I have left is the head actuator and the frame
23:00 rue_house 10!?
23:00 ^kat^ or is they 8's ??
23:00 rue_house there were 8" floppies?
23:01 e_house hands kat a tape measure and point to the a
23:01 ^kat^ got floppy cassettes and a cassette changer
23:01 rue_house heh
23:01 rue_house I need to finish converting these reel-reel for the meusium
23:02 rue_house muuusee'em
23:02 ^kat^ you didn't do that 3 yrs ago?
23:02 rue_house its not finished yet
23:02 rue_house but its a problem with time, I started that powers supply 2 years ago
23:02 rue_house I started the wall clock 19 years ago
23:02 rue_house if I live long enought to turn myself into a robot I'm gonna have really improved
23:03 rue_house "what, my capacitors are going!? its only been... er... 15 years..."
23:03 zhanx Chapple style?
23:04 ^kat^ yea, that's going to be the problem with every puter and psu outt here
23:04 rue_house my appleII is ill in the power supply
23:04 rue_house chapple?
23:04 rue_house chappie?
23:04 ^kat^ the robot movie Chappie
23:04 rue_house z?
23:04 rue_house I think thats what he meant?
23:05 zhanx Yes
23:06 zhanx Actually saw it last night could have been better
23:06 rue_house yes, but with a few differences
23:06 rue_house I am not 'down'
23:06 zhanx Amd way better looking right?
23:06 rue_house +2 arms, 2 just isn't enough
23:06 rue_house + some solar
23:07 zhanx Solar needs to be all spectrum not just visual light
23:08 rue_house there just needs to be something independent
23:08 rue_house anything
23:08 rue_house oh no, I forgot to do the kitty litter
23:08 rue_house damnit
23:08 rue_house I hate this
23:08 ^kat^ kitty litter is not independant
23:09 ^kat^ tellthe mowerbot to get it and spread while mowing, eay
23:09 ^kat^ easy
23:09 anx adds a chronjob to
23:14 rue_house the power supply and the digital scope are part of the foundation to convert myself
23:15 rue_house I dont think that bentonite clay ever goes away, I been dumping it in the neighbours yard for year now and the pile just gets higher
23:15 rue_house :)
23:15 rue_house year
23:15 rue_house s
23:15 zhanx Rue I made a brainwave meter using pennies
23:16 rue_house there is an intersting problem
23:16 rue_house lets say you have a completely proprietory computer that runs a peice of software you want
23:16 rue_house the computer is comming apart, failure is inevitable
23:16 rue_house so you have to get the software on another computer
23:16 rue_house but the origional machine is a proprietory arch
23:16 rue_house completely
23:17 rue_house so
23:17 zhanx Dd the HD and use a virtual machine
23:17 rue_house under any normal circumstances you would just ditch it and get a complete alternative
23:17 rue_house zhanx, the orig is not an x86
23:17 rue_house its not even documented
23:17 zhanx So
23:18 zhanx What is it ?
23:18 rue_house you dont even know the instruction set
23:18 ^kat^ there's no VM for it
23:18 rue_house exactly
23:18 zhanx Oh, thought game
23:18 rue_house do you try to emulate it from an atomic level, make something that recreates the end-effect, or soemthing in between?
23:19 zhanx In between
23:19 zhanx Middle ware
23:19 rue_house you dont NEED the software, you need what the software does
23:19 rue_house as it turns out, the machine mixes processing and data storage, so its really quite evil
23:20 rue_house however its an EXTREMELY redundant, self correcting machine
23:20 zhanx I stand firm
23:20 rue_house so if you get soemthing close, it might auto correct
23:21 rue_house in the meantime, its core is degrading at a hardware level
23:21 ^kat^ Alzheimers
23:21 rue_house not neccisarily
23:21 rue_house but its just gonna get worse with time
23:22 zhanx Rewriting the end effect is not good
23:22 ^kat^ all those caps drying out and opening up
23:22 rue_house from what I can tell, its dual core, the two cores regulate each other to help maintain stability
23:22 zhanx What you got alien tech you hiding?
23:23 rue_house again, crazy redundancies
23:23 ^kat^ no, he hasn't built himself yet, but needs to design out the bugs
23:23 zhanx You mean features kat
23:23 rue_house zhanx, do you know how to make your own logic gates from resources found in a forrest?
23:23 zhanx Kind of
23:23 rue_house yea
23:24 rue_house but you know logic gates just dandy
23:24 zhanx Yes but finding stuff to make it is harder
23:24 zhanx Mean I could use water powered gates
23:25 rue_house on some level, I think there is a case where all of us digress to a user
23:25 rue_house going back to the stone age and knowing how a walkie-talking works wont help you much make one...
23:25 rue_house anyhow!
23:26 zhanx Your right
23:26 rue_house I have an idea that it might be possable to use nerve background noise to map neurons
23:26 rue_house because nerves will have background noise from unrelated neurons in the brian
23:27 rue_house rememeber that 'chip whisperer' project on hackaday?
23:27 rue_house the more important question is, even if you had a map of all the neurons in a brain, would it help you
23:27 zhanx No
23:27 zhanx But it would guide you
23:27 rue_house one of the things I'm sure of is that a brain is statefull, if you dont have the config AND the state, you just have a paperweight
23:28 rue_house and, from what I'v picked up, about 10 mins of inactivity is enough to lose all the neural polarities in a brain
23:29 rue_house oh crap, my peroges
23:32 rue_house not boiled to death, yay
23:33 rue_house so, I dont know how to solve the brain problem yet
23:33 rue_house and even if I did, I dont have a body
23:34 rue_house extra tips, the cerabelum is just a macro encoder, the spine decodes and does a lot on its own
23:34 rue_house zhanx, did I lose ya?
23:34 zhanx Nope
23:35 zhanx Peroges recipes
23:35 zhanx Google
23:35 rue_house I'm happy with the power supply progesss
23:35 rue_house maybe I can have it finished in a month or so
23:36 rue_house why, if the air in a room is warm, do cold walls make it seem so much colder?
23:37 ^kat^ they don't bounce your IR radiation back
23:38 rue_house maybe I should start draping blankets
23:38 zhanx They absorb heat?
23:38 rue_house need to get the company flir camera out here
23:38 zhanx Sheet rock takes a while to warm up
23:38 ^kat^ nah, cover the walls with coroplast and run warm water thru them
23:38 rue_house this is just 1/8" panel board
23:38 rue_house ooo
23:39 zhanx The space behind the board is cold also then
23:39 rue_house its got 1" of insulation behind that
23:39 zhanx Aka rue add more
23:40 zhanx Insulation is great at staying cold also
23:40 rue_house yes, I could strip the walls, rewire (take out the aluminum) re-insulate, and drywall it all up, and it would still be sitting on the septic system and be rotting out from underneeth
23:41 rue_house but it'd cost almost as much as a new houe
23:41 rue_house :)
23:41 zhanx And lots of work
23:41 rue_house can I get time to go faster AND slower at the same... time?
23:42 ^kat^ in that case, drill a 2" hole in the top and bottom of eachstud space, and pour in expanding foam
23:42 rue_house I want to sit down and play with my $11 gps
23:42 zhanx Gravity well
23:42 rue_house dry or wet?
23:42 zhanx Wet
23:42 e_house
23:42 rue_house thow mass into gravity well, ok
23:43 rue_house zhanx, hows the shop?
23:43 rue_house any new tables?
23:43 zhanx No but it's getting a computer
23:43 rue_house eeek, I have ... $35 I need to spend on kids robotics stuff...
23:43 rue_house this is beccoming a challange
23:43 zhanx Got my buttons in
23:44 zhanx Making a game for the kids for thanksgiving
23:44 rue_house cool
23:44 rue_house tictac?
23:44 zhanx Trivia and a jumper / runner game
23:44 rue_house not sure how that works, but ok
23:45 zhanx 5 kids so hopefully I can sprite all their images for it
23:45 rue_house with led lights?
23:45 zhanx Hit button to jump and yes leds
23:45 rue_house hmm
23:45 rue_house fast battlestar galactica
23:46 zhanx My beaglebone black is gonna be the pc for it
23:46 rue_house k
23:46 rue_house 150M?
23:46 rue_house hz
23:46 zhanx ?
23:46 zhanx Oh yes
23:47 zhanx I can clock down to thst
23:47 rue_house "enguage the second channel" "ok" thats the 3rd channel" "its labeled 2!?" "0, 1, 2, its the 3rd channel" "arg"
23:48 zhanx Think I am making peroges for dinner tomorrow night
23:49 ^kat^ you got my address, right?
23:49 zhanx No, why you want some?
23:50 ^kat^ yeas
23:50 ^kat^ they spoil before they get here, nevermnd
23:50 zhanx Freeze with dry ice?
23:50 zhanx Kmow the mail system nope
23:51 ^kat^ cost too much
23:51 ^kat^ huge amount of the stuff
23:51 zhanx Rue could just post his recipe
23:52 ^kat^ i may be over my grocery limit for the month anyhow
23:52 ^kat^ $30 for bug spray this month already
23:52 rue_house I boil then, then add salt and pepper, margerin if they are cheap ones
23:52 at^ nods, "boil the b
23:52 zhanx Oh I making mine from scratch
23:53 ^kat^ is butter nesessary ater boiling them?
23:53 rue_house poor rifraf, I did that once
23:53 rue_house used EVERYTHING in his kitchen
23:54 zhanx Kat it's for taste preferences
23:54 ^kat^ ok
23:54 zhanx I like mine with mustard
23:55 zhanx Fubar forgot connectors
23:56 ^kat^ what connectors on your perogie?
23:56 zhanx Oh not for them my buttons
23:57 zhanx Would prefer not to solder on them
23:59 ^kat^ why not?