#garfield Logs

Sep 10 2015

00:00 rue_school I neeed to focus one goals to make myself mechanical
00:00 ^kat^ missing dots at the bottom of a groove
00:00 rue_school tho, I suspect ageing is caused by excessive viral dna mutations
00:01 ^kat^ or just failure to communicate
00:01 rue_school hwo do you make a state machine that can be taught?
00:01 ^kat^ i don't
00:02 rue_school this must be eay
00:02 rue_school basic temporal pattern matching
00:02 ^kat^ picture how massive it would need to be to understand all you wanna tell it,, and then think of that mass in total freaking chaos when you first power it up
00:03 rue_school I'm sure that even high end processors have enough juice
00:03 rue_school if used right
00:03 ^kat^ given enough time and ram to simulate the state machine, sure
00:03 rue_school no, for realtime
00:03 rue_school tho I think it might take 4T of memory
00:03 ^kat^ the result output is the same when you first power it up: millions of petabytes of garbage
00:04 rue_school there are a few peices of code that show hope
00:04 rue_school one of them is a units converter, of all things
00:04 ^kat^ i think, to be a real state machine, it would haveto start with an input for on the 2nd level of every word AND concept you communicate with
00:04 rue_school I want to talk with woz about state machines
00:05 ^kat^ units convertor is not a Siri
00:05 rue_school I see dymanic, data based state machines
00:05 rue_school but not clearly enough to make one
00:05 ^kat^ data AND procedural
00:06 ^kat^ Tiggr cannot form all her replies by reading an answer and out putting it
00:06 rue_school a state machine can be made by taking the outputs of a rom and feeding some of them back into the inputs
00:06 rue_school if you take those outputs and loop them thru a ram chip you get someting else
00:06 ^kat^ you are not a state machine, you sometimes chew on your thougts
00:06 rue_school oh my god! my thoughts are in the shape of a toothbrush!
00:07 rue_school wait, no, its just a toothbrush..
00:07 rue_school ok, sorry, continue
00:07 rue_school I am a state machine
00:07 rue_school what I do is completely statefull
00:07 ^kat^ if you have never added 81 and 18, you cannot have the answer in the state machine, you must resort to code
00:08 rue_school state machines can add
00:08 rue_school hmm, implement reason on a state machine
00:08 rue_school your gonna give him the answers by leaking him questions kat
00:08 rue_school thats good
00:08 rue_school ugh
00:09 ^kat^ oops
00:09 rue_school implement reason, hmm, I need a small platform to make a reaoning, learning state machine
00:09 rue_school like those little bots me and thejester are makiing
00:10 rue_school rue, rue rue rue, how do I make a learning state machine
00:10 rue_school you already know the answer
00:10 rue_school no, I dont understand it all
00:10 rue_school thats cause your not ready
00:10 rue_school AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
00:10 rue_school yea, not ready.
00:11 rue_school ok, if I take a loopback state mahcine and put the output thru a ram,
00:11 rue_school I get a state machine with a translation table glued on it
00:12 rue_school so I need to put the ram in the feedback loop to control the state
00:12 rue_school so, how do i write the ram?
00:12 rue_school I need some sort of bigger feedback
00:12 rue_school for which I need goals
00:12 rue_school what are a babys goals
00:12 rue_school there are none
00:13 ^kat^ be happy, not be in pain
00:13 rue_school it speaks.... no goals, ..
00:13 rue_school yes, !
00:13 rue_school your right, ok
00:13 rue_school so, so, a robot...
00:13 rue_school hmm
00:13 rue_school that cries when its battery is low till daddy charges it up?
00:13 rue_school thats not a good learned behavoir
00:13 rue_school heh, no
00:14 rue_school but think about it
00:14 rue_school ok, so I said goals, which are to achive feedback for purposes of training
00:15 rue_school I have watched fully grown adults crying and having a fit when they dont get what they want
00:15 rue_school they just do it slightly different than a baby
00:15 ^kat^ and they get violent
00:15 rue_school that would be the fit part
00:15 ^kat^ no
00:16 ^kat^ violence is directed outwards
00:16 ^kat^ a fit is just flailing
00:16 ^kat^ violence usually has a target
00:16 rue_school so, to learn the robot needs a goal
00:16 rue_school or goals
00:16 rue_school for which it needs sensors
00:16 rue_school so far, the robot has 2 wiskers
00:17 rue_school thats not gonna be enough
00:17 rue_school it could measure its battery
00:17 rue_school but it cant do anything about its state
00:17 rue_school and its its only goal was to keep its battery charged, I couldn't see it ever leaving the charging bay
00:17 rue_school how about picking up dirt
00:18 rue_school give it a need for protene and carbohydrates
00:18 rue_school otherwise electricity and floor dirt
00:18 ^kat^ this is such bad timing
00:19 rue_school what are you gonna do when it starts intentionally knocking over plants to get dirt to pick up?
00:19 rue_school ssh
00:19 rue_school ^kat^, ?
00:19 ^kat^ you are talking, my sleepy pills are kicking in, and what's her nick just took her clothes off on tv
00:20 rue_school which sleepy pills you use?
00:20 rue_school hmm, a state machine with an evolutionary responce
00:21 ^kat^ the much abused benadryl OTC
00:24 rue_school w/ vodka?
00:25 rue_school so, evolutionary requires some mechanism for backtracking
00:25 rue_school and there is random vs orderly adaptation
00:26 rue_school then again, there is unstable perturbation
00:26 rue_school like the balancer in a cdrom
00:26 rue_school the only time it stops changing is when its right
00:26 rue_school but even then, the changes aren't random
00:27 rue_school your closer than you might think
00:27 rue_school WELL THANKS MR 'NO ANSWERS FOR YOU'
00:27 ^kat^ <cough>
00:28 ^kat^ no, no vodka, not hurting enough for that, but i have some
00:28 ^kat^ occasional sips of Kahlua or amaretto
00:28 rue_school its 10pm, I should go to sleep
00:28 rue_school what is sleep anyhow
00:28 ^kat^ my dvd/cd/vhs quit a few days ago
00:28 rue_school all of them?
00:28 ^kat^ one unt
00:28 rue_school oh
00:29 rue_school power supply caps leaked
00:29 ^kat^ the CD/dvd won't open/close, i am not putting a tape in it to get it eaten
00:29 ^kat^ dvd/cd won't do it's normal bloody annoying spinup pots
00:29 rue_school cause they jammed them all tight, put them beside a rectifier heat sink, and then drove 300% the ripple current thru them that they were rated for
00:29 at^
00:30 rue_school great new world eh?
00:30 ^kat^ this is Magnavox brand,, whould i spit towards Malaysia or France?
00:30 e_school sh
00:30 rue_school tear it apart and see if tit just needs 4 new caps
00:31 ^kat^ i been wanting to park the truck on it for years
00:31 rue_school yup, the window is closed, I'l need the drown out the hooting with an mp3 player
00:31 ^kat^ it's damned loud when spinning, like a cement pumper truck
00:31 ^kat^ or off balance washing machine
00:31 ^kat^ a rotary hammer drill
00:32 rue_school that little sand autobalancer is one of the great engineering feats of the world
00:32 rue_school maybe it dosn't have one, could you replace it with one from a cdrom I wonder
00:32 ^kat^ yeas, sand blast it
00:33 ^kat^ i prolly won't watch it on the boat, i might be too busy all winter
00:33 rue_school your doing one pontoon at a time?
00:34 rue_school long answers usually mean no
00:34 ^kat^ this all-steel one is taking too long, it's going to ened asap and be a one-off for another project
00:34 rue_school oh its not a state machine, there is no name for this yet
00:34 ^kat^ i got the ok to use plastic drums for floaties
00:35 rue_school give em a few psi eh?
00:35 ^kat^ long anser may men i am passing out due to sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepy pilll
00:35 ^kat^ a cuple, yeas
00:35 rue_school I would think 1 or 2 is lots
00:35 ^kat^ just so i know if thel lose the pressure, there's a new undesireable hole somehwere
00:36 rue_school and so they cant crush
00:36 ^kat^ if there's enough air that it can forse the water out, it's enough,, and one more psi on top of thet is good nuff
00:36 rue_school Im creating something new, its not a state machine
00:37 ^kat^ i are standing them up upside down in the water, not laying them down
00:37 rue_school its as much a state machine as a lookup table is a state machine
00:37 rue_school its like, up a notch
00:37 rue_school I been drawing it for like 20 years now
00:38 rue_school before I even knew how computers worked
00:38 rue_school somehow I knew how state machines worked
00:38 rue_school the farce is in you luke
00:38 ^kat^ o drew a tic-tac-toe schematic using relays and diodes ~1968
00:39 rue_school nice!
00:39 rue_school but, whats the fun if you can at best draw?
00:39 rue_school do you stil ahve the drawing?
00:39 ^kat^ well, what can it do with no pcb driller, no etching?
00:39 ^kat^ no
00:39 rue_school oh
00:40 rue_school I lost my stuff too
00:40 rue_school one move, ma threw out about every second box of my stuff, randomly
00:40 ^kat^ damn
00:40 rue_school I did have a lot of stuff
00:40 ^kat^ my mom gave away a 10x10 shed filled with stukk, like the Eico sterio power amp, etc
00:41 rue_school ouch
00:41 rue_school ni ni
00:41 ^kat^ gites
00:41 rue_school I have to think of what to call these new things
00:42 rue_school ruemohr loop?
00:43 at^ is sleepy and needs tuh go tuh
00:43 ^kat^ zzzzzz
20:40 ^kat^ in 2 yrs, the usa will have the 100th anniversary of the first airmail delivery from NY to Califonica
20:41 ^kat^ and this : http://sometimes-interesting.com/2014/05/09/derinkuyu-the-underground-cities-of-cappadocia/
20:51 ^kat^ this was once a 160 acre, 5 ile long island, where 360 people lived : http://i0.wp.com/sometimes-interesting.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Holland-Island-002.jpg?resize=1021%2C580
20:55 zhanx- Cut my hair today so now I get questions on my scars,, not doing that a again
20:56 katsmeow umm, ok
20:56 zhanx- Normally I don't bend over
20:57 zhanx- Just blah
21:29 e_school r
21:30 tsmeow got an additional 160 feet of boat ribs t
21:30 rue_school kinda gotta wonder why a yard only that big needs a bobcat
21:31 katsmeow the only thing above water now, is the top of that bobcat
21:31 rue_school oh
21:31 rue_school where is that?
21:31 katsmeow Holland Island
21:32 katsmeow Cheseapeake Bay
21:32 rue_school huh
21:32 rue_school was it a town?
21:32 katsmeow several islands there have sunk in the last 20 yrs
21:32 katsmeow 360 people lived there, yeas, it was a town
21:41 rue_school nature took it as a historic sample
21:42 rue_school oh yea, theres a number of images of the last house going down
21:58 rue_school https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDk8MnoPBJM
21:59 rue_school thats a video that explains the bobcat and excavator
22:04 katsmeow the guy trying to save it
22:05 rue_school yup
22:05 katsmeow afaik, he'd dead now too
22:06 rue_school as of all things
22:06 rue_school ok I ate some food, I seem supper finished
22:08 rue_school hmm I think the library is open for another 2 hours
22:08 rue_school I dont feel like the trip tho
22:10 katsmeow they deliver?
22:25 rue_school heh
22:25 rue_school oh, the rues are gone
22:25 rue_school must have been a power fail
22:26 rue_school oh dear, the router last reported in a 2:16pm
22:26 rue_school nope, the whole house is offline
22:27 rue_school yup, even the phone system is down
22:27 rue_school grrrreaaaaaaat
22:28 rue_school shop and the hosue are down, so it wasn't just a minor outage
22:39 katsmeow http://imgur.com/gallery/0YBrjFs
22:40 katsmeow didn't you install a roomie before you left?
22:40 katsmeow did they go down too?
22:40 rue_school the whole site went down, phone system too
22:40 rue_school there must have been a big power interrruption
22:41 katsmeow http://i.imgur.com/1zzgI3a.png
22:41 Tom_itx disturbance in the force
22:42 rue_school hahah
22:46 rue_school can you belive they ask students the pin numbers of a 741 by function as one of the practise questions?
22:48 rue_school katsmeow, what could I use to clear air of airborne viruses?
22:50 katsmeow powerful UV lamp, with no living thingsleft in it, window shades closed, door closed
22:50 katsmeow else, fan
22:51 rue_school k, that would kill all the plastic things too tho
22:51 rue_school I suppose it need not be run for long
22:51 katsmeow it would take time to kill the plastics
22:52 rue_school yea, I'm thinking a few mins exposure would be enough to clear the air
22:52 rue_school I dont like transporting my uv light
22:52 rue_school I only have the one bulb
22:53 katsmeow they are cheap on ebay
22:55 rue_school hard to find the sterilization grade ones
22:56 rue_school trying to work out these "its a step up from a state machine" s
22:56 katsmeow i bought one on ebay, UV-C ,, 15w, iirc
22:57 rue_school need to know how to make the outter feedback work
22:57 rue_school how does it learn
22:58 rue_school well, wait,
22:58 rue_school a state machine rememers one prev state that it uses for feedback
22:58 rue_school what if that was expanded
23:01 tsmeow ponders a sam
23:02 katsmeow to turn down the volume on a gramaphone, do you need to change the horn for a smaller one?
23:03 rue_school just stuff a sock in it
23:03 rue_school :)
23:03 katsmeow what?!
23:03 rue_school STUFF A SOCK IN IT
23:03 rue_school that IS where that came from, no?
23:03 katsmeow oh
23:04 katsmeow possibly
23:04 rue_school my understanding, thats where that came from
23:06 katsmeow did yo know 100 ft of 3/16 thick 3"wide steel boat rib is a more than 1/2 cubic foot of steel?
23:07 rue_school yike
23:07 katsmeow 255 lbs
23:07 rue_school geez, just fits in 8 bits
23:07 katsmeow what does?
23:07 katsmeow oh
23:07 tsmeow is sl
23:08 rue_school there as to be a way to make a state machine that just naturally does pattern recognition
23:09 katsmeow thee is, it's been done
23:09 e_school tries to poke ram chips into state machines in all different
23:11 katsmeow an array of 64k x 8 rams, stuff the image into the rams 64k different ways, once trained, simply clock thru them till you get the least error between the trail pic and the readouts
23:14 rue_school maybe the idea is to try to make the same thing happen nomatter what the input
23:14 katsmeow then all yu need is one relay
23:15 rue_school complex state machine inputs
23:16 rue_school tokens I presume
23:27 katsmeow it's called binoculars, because there's two ways to look thru it, if your eyes are really far apart, look thru here, if your eyes are close together look thru this side
23:30 rue_school to make a state machines that tries to rationalize whatever input it gets
23:32 rue_school to do that it would need to record its inputs into a memory
23:32 rue_school and trying to compare then to its inputs
23:50 katsmeow ok, a 8ft steel boat, double bottom with 3" of sealed air chambers in the bottom, 4ft sides, 6ft wide, will weigh ~2500 lbs and ride 5 inches deep with nothing in it
23:53 rue_school except 2psi of air?
23:53 katsmeow will float an inch lower every ~500 lbs on it, so to push it a foot lower will take 6000 lbs
23:53 rue_school over what area?
23:54 katsmeow 6ft x 16ft
23:54 katsmeow 2 ft bow extension, which won't add anyting but weight and looks
23:54 rue_school 13824 square inches
23:54 rue_school 6000lbs
23:55 rue_school .43psi
23:55 katsmeow that's about right
23:55 rue_school so, pressurizing it with .5 psi seems logical
23:55 katsmeow water is ~ 64ft cu ft, or ~ 1psi per 2ft of deep
23:56 katsmeow it's an pen boat, why ,, err, what would i pressurize?
23:56 katsmeow open
23:56 rue_school counterforce
23:57 katsmeow there's nothing in the boat to hold any pressure
23:58 rue_school ok
23:59 rue_school so, the goal is to get the state machine to generalize its inputs enough to make patterns out of things that aren't
23:59 rue_school neccissarily