#garfield Logs

Sep 09 2015

07:25 m_itx ties rue_school's shoelaces toge
20:22 ^kat^ there's only 69 nicks in #RoboTics
20:31 ^kat^ note to self: do not put a bucketfull of not-yet-risen bread dough into a school locker overnight
20:34 rue_school hi kat
20:34 rue_school prolly yea
20:34 rue_school the channel is going into later stages of life
20:35 ^kat^ oh :-(
20:35 rue_school hows welding?
20:36 ^kat^ been cutting
20:36 ^kat^ ~38 boat ribs, and calculating needs for the rest
20:36 rue_school ok
20:37 Tom_itx yay! mill seems to be working 100% now
20:38 rue_school cool stuff
20:38 rue_school anything in the job list?
20:38 Tom_itx fixed my pendant spindle control logic this evening
20:38 Tom_itx nope
20:38 ^kat^ called steel place for price on 5x10ft of plate, they want $160 , i broke out laughing, they were not amused
20:38 Tom_itx i need to mount the mill back in it's box
20:38 Tom_itx i took it out so i could debug it at my desk
20:39 rue_school how thick?
20:39 rue_school so its not been near the faulty neutral that caused it to burn up in the first place?
20:41 Tom_itx well maybe.
20:41 Tom_itx seems there is one logic condition i missed
20:41 ^kat^ d� b�g�
20:42 rue_school ^kat^, there is something I wanted to tell you
20:42 rue_school I dont remmeber what it is
20:42 ^kat^ that's amazing!
20:42 ^kat^ i am glad you told me there is something you want to tell me
20:42 rue_school suppose I should just email you
20:42 ^kat^ yeas
20:50 rue_school gee that stirr crazy sets in pretty fast when theres nothing to do
20:51 ^kat^ (pointing to oscope) see the theis short horizontal line? the palistrade oscillator is genuflecting too early, and the framistan isn't triggering
20:52 rue_school hmm, is it worth fixing up?
20:53 rue_school so far the potatoes aren't working out, two boxes dug up yielded verry little
20:54 Tom_itx worms get any?
20:54 ^kat^ i was looking at the scope one day at work, for some pulses, and my boss, and his boss, were looking over my shoulder, i saw the pulses, so i leaned in closer to the scope, they did too, i said...
20:54 Tom_itx rotten?
20:54 ^kat^ They're here.....
20:54 Tom_itx or just low yeild?
20:54 Tom_itx yield*
20:54 Tom_itx dammit!
20:54 Tom_itx one more set of logic to figure out now
21:08 rue_school a few with little worms
21:13 Tom_itx i used to plant mine in mounded rows so i wouldn't have to dig much to find em
21:20 ^kat^ Stainless steel is a family of corrosion resistant steels containing chromium in which the chromium forms a passive film of chromium oxide (Cr2O3) when exposed to oxygen [1]. This phenomenon is called passivation and is seen in other metals, such as aluminium and titanium.
21:20 ^kat^ The film layer is impervious to water and air and quickly reforms when the surface is scratched. This protects the metal beneath � preventing further surface corrosion.
21:20 rue_school I was told that if thye were planted in stacked planters they would put out potatoes over the whole height of the planter
21:20 ^kat^ Since the layer only forms in the presence of oxygen, corrosion-resistance can be adversely affected if the component is used in a non-oxygenated environment e.g. underwater bolts on a platform support structure.
21:29 ^kat^ Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in a pretty, pristine body but rather to come sliding in sideways, all used up and exclaiming, "Wow, what a ride!"
21:51 zhanx i can't get this stupid esp8266 to read my temp sensor at all
21:52 rue_school its just a network chip isn'tit?
21:52 zhanx so i can / gonna cheat. i got a few arduino pro mini's that i can program to read it. then pass the stupid temp via serial to it
21:52 zhanx chip with a few ip
21:52 zhanx iio
21:52 zhanx ugh
21:53 zhanx wow 4 hours at this
21:54 rue_school I just made an i2c network that spans the house
21:54 zhanx and all i get is the sensor to initialize
21:54 rue_school its all wrong, its star config over about 100'
21:54 rue_school but it works
21:54 zhanx cool
21:55 rue_school ^kat^, zhanx what do you think are the defining borders between genuine and artificial intelligence?
21:55 zhanx self awre
21:55 zhanx aware
21:57 ^kat^ and being able to generate insight
21:57 zhanx fore thought
21:59 ^kat^ "i let go of the ball and it began moving and impacted the floor. Why do you think that happened?"
22:01 ^kat^ "i put an old penney in a baloon and a new penny in an identical baloon. i left both go at the same time, one hit the flor, one hit the ceiling. Why do you think that happened?"
22:05 Tom_itx the old penny hit the floor
22:05 ^kat^ yeas, and why?
22:05 Tom_itx because it was copper
22:05 Tom_itx and the other one was shit
22:05 ^kat^ Tom is the human i
22:09 rue_school hmm
22:09 rue_school so, an electronic entity could be either?
22:11 ^kat^ you mean etierh swoof or a toad?
22:11 rue_school wait, so how doyou know your not ai software?
22:12 Tom_itx rue_school are you good with state machines?
22:13 rue_school no, state machines are the most incredible thing in the universe, and I'v barely scratched the surface of what can be done with them
22:14 rue_school when it comes to state machines, I'm not even up to a novice
22:14 at^ thinks of them as clockless proces
22:14 Tom_itx could you help me figure one out if i gave you a logic flow chart for one?
22:14 Tom_itx https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_VlL39jUOPpS8Tt9mpRK-eaSTS6C6PHBDoE3JitvLzs/edit?pli=1#gid=0
22:15 Tom_itx that is a help spreadsheet to figure out the inputs for what i need
22:15 rue_school I want to know about interacting state machines and group state machines and state machines that make state machines, dynamic state mcahines that integrate data into their states
22:15 rue_school oh, its just a mortal problem?
22:15 rue_school prolly easy, lets see
22:15 Tom_itx i've been using regular logic 'and' and 'or' gates but i've reached a dead end on something
22:16 Tom_itx rue_school, you can't 'let's see' without the flow chart
22:16 Tom_itx and i haven't drawn it yet
22:16 rue_school uh, thats just a lookup table
22:16 Tom_itx yeah but you can use it to make gates
22:17 rue_school sure you can, but why do you have to do this with gates?
22:17 rue_school this isn't even statefull
22:17 zhanx spreadsheets have been used for a while to do that
22:17 Tom_itx it may be easier to do it with ladderlogic
22:18 Tom_itx but i don't know how their ladder logic works either
22:18 rue_school you just need a logic equation for that mess?
22:19 zhanx tom your bit values are off
22:19 Tom_itx no i want to use that function to replace my logic mess
22:19 at^ hads Tom a
22:19 Tom_itx zhanx that table probably needs to be cleared
22:19 Tom_itx it's up there for whoever uses it
22:19 zhanx k
22:20 rue_school Tom_itx, you want it expressed in logic gates then?
22:20 Tom_itx you define the inputs and their states and the output for each set of them
22:20 rue_school Tom_itx, you want it expressed in logic gates then?
22:20 Tom_itx rue_school, i've been trying to solve my problem using logic gates right now
22:20 rue_school Tom_itx, you want it expressed in logic gates then?
22:20 Tom_itx someone suggested i should use that function instead of the gates
22:21 rue_school what function, what do you want?
22:21 Tom_itx right now i have 3 or gates and 3 and gates
22:21 ^kat^ <cough>
22:21 Tom_itx i'll have to draw it up tomorrow
22:21 Tom_itx it would take too long to explain tonight
22:22 rue_school do you want a set of logic equations that give you that output?
22:22 Tom_itx it's for spindle control
22:22 Tom_itx during the following conditions:
22:22 Tom_itx MDI mode
22:22 Tom_itx Manual mode
22:22 Tom_itx and
22:22 rue_school there isn't a table lookup fn?
22:22 Tom_itx auto mode during program pause
22:22 ^kat^ and it has no sense of how fast the spindle is turning before throwing it into reverse?
22:23 Tom_itx see, the when in auto mode you shouldn't be able to turn the spindle off if the program is running
22:23 Tom_itx a;sldkjf;alskjdf
22:23 Tom_itx in the other modes it doesn't matter
22:23 Tom_itx and another thing is, you shouldn't be able to resume the program until the spindle is back on
22:24 Tom_itx that's what this logic is to control
22:24 Tom_itx i have several signals from the control to watch during this
22:24 Tom_itx mode.mdi
22:24 Tom_itx mode.manual
22:24 Tom_itx program.paused
22:24 Tom_itx spindle.is-on
22:25 Tom_itx spindle.start
22:25 Tom_itx spindle.stop
22:25 Tom_itx last 2 are inputs
22:25 Tom_itx program.is-auto
22:25 Tom_itx i think that's all the signals i'm using
22:26 Tom_itx it all works fine except during auto mode / program paused
22:26 Tom_itx the spindle will turn off but it won't turn back on
22:26 rue_school I dont know what you want
22:26 Tom_itx i know that
22:26 Tom_itx you need a diagram
22:26 ^kat^ disconnect the line going to spindle.start
22:27 Tom_itx it's a pulse signal
22:27 Tom_itx you just pulse those pins
22:27 ^kat^ o
22:27 Tom_itx start and stop
22:27 Tom_itx and the function that does it is like a flip flop so one is pulsed and the other isn't and vice versa
22:27 rue_school table = [0,1,1,1,0,1,0,1,0,0,0,1,0,1,0,0,0,1,0,1,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,1];
22:28 rue_school answer = table[inputs];
22:29 Tom_itx http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/lut5.9.html
22:31 Tom_itx i just don't get how it works
22:32 Tom_itx i may just simplify the code so the spindle button doesn't function in 'auto' mode
22:34 Tom_itx i was just trying to 'fancy' it up a bit
22:34 zhanx ok screwed up your spread sheet google docs sucks
22:34 Tom_itx heh
22:35 Tom_itx gonna sleep now.
22:35 Tom_itx later
22:37 rue_school lookup tables, good
22:37 rue_school 5 bits, perfect
22:38 zhanx and fixed
22:38 rue_school your fixed?
22:39 rue_school :(
22:39 rue_school I'm prolly just a safe enough distance to say that to a guy like you
22:40 zhanx you are
22:40 zhanx no i was fixing tom's math on the table
22:40 rue_school the wrong bit positions?
22:40 zhanx thinking about fixing his binary count also
22:40 zhanx yes
22:41 zhanx https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_VlL39jUOPpS8Tt9mpRK-eaSTS6C6PHBDoE3JitvLzs/edit?usp=sharing
22:42 zhanx if you do it right you can flip flop the count on the fly
22:46 rue_school the documentation for a lut5 is absolutly stupid
22:46 rue_school I think this was put together by yet more people who just cant get the hang of a lookup table
22:46 rue_school why cant people understand tables?
22:46 zhanx no clue
22:49 rue_school I like to use state machines for encoders, I used one for static string morse code once
22:53 rue_school they did lookup tables all wrong in linuxcnc
22:54 rue_school if they'd done them right, even 8 input tables wouldn't be an issue, and they would be writable, which, these ones, are not.
22:54 rue_school they seem to reduce it to some sort of hex value mess and then mush all that togetor into one number thats supposed to represent the whole freaking table
22:54 rue_school sersly?
22:56 ^kat^ 8 boolean bits in one byte was common once upon a tme
22:58 ^kat^ we caled them bytebools
22:59 rue_school ooo its like an bingree, i like it
23:00 ^kat^ bingree?
23:00 rue_school 256 bingrees in a circle
23:00 ^kat^ oh
23:01 rue_school the auto rollover is handy
23:02 rue_school been a long time since I did sine lookup tables
23:02 rue_school but man was it fast
23:04 Tom_itx that function was likely written a long time ago by someone that's not in linuxcnc now
23:04 rue_school oooo I think my command line calc does binary
23:04 rue_school root@fast-laps:/files/programming/src# calc 0b0001+0b0010
23:04 rue_school 0b0001+0b0010 -->> 3
23:04 ^kat^ so the way i understand it, each time the painting is in a museum, someone steals it and replaces it with an obvious fake as it's being shipped out to a new museum, this has been going on since the Middle Ages, no one knows what the original looked like
23:05 rue_school root@fast-laps:/files/programming/src# calc "0b0001||0b0010"
23:05 rue_school 0b0001||0b0010 -->> 1
23:05 ^kat^ but the copys are good enough, someone will make a new fake and steal the old one, no one knowing they are all fakes now
23:05 rue_school heh
23:06 Tom_itx http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/
23:06 Tom_itx near the bottom shows their functions
23:06 Tom_itx no str functions i see
23:06 rue_school oh
23:06 rue_school a str function could totally make up for the MESS their lookup tables are
23:06 Tom_itx 'expand' the list
23:07 rue_school from what I read, their lookup table code dosn't work worth a damn, and sure as hell the docs on it ar horrible
23:07 rue_school nobody gives a proper example of one
23:07 Tom_itx well some are using it
23:07 Tom_itx i just don't understand it
23:08 rue_school yea, lots of bug reports
23:08 rue_school its not understableble
23:08 Tom_itx apparently some do
23:08 rue_school lookup tables are the simplest damn things on the planet, and the guys who put that freaking mess togethor obviously had no clue
23:08 Tom_itx doesn't say who wrote it
23:08 Tom_itx so it's probably old code
23:09 rue_school bet the source does
23:09 Tom_itx the source is readily available
23:09 rue_school no point in reaming him out for it now
23:09 rue_school its not a fight i'm interested in
23:09 ^kat^ lookup tables been in sude almost since the first cpu understood the first program, or had an API
23:10 ^kat^ no fight necessary, rue, sheesh
23:10 rue_school if I give you the formula a&((/b&c) | (b&/c)) can you make it into logic for linuxcnc?
23:10 ^kat^ jst beat him to a pulp before he can raise a finger to object
23:10 Tom_itx why would you need str functions in a cnc program?
23:10 rue_school because I can make a proper lookup function with them
23:11 ^kat^ because str(lookup,x*num,y*num+12) = a value
23:11 ^kat^ err,, no y, all x
23:11 rue_school kat, this is linuxcnc, they couldn't even get lookup tables right, they have so much overhead in them, thye can only handle 5 bits
23:12 ^kat^ and you wonder why i don't une nix?
23:12 rue_school its just piles of bad code on bad code
23:12 rue_school Tom_itx, can you use that formula or not?
23:12 ^kat^ someone send a robot out to bring in my handheld chop saw
23:13 Tom_itx http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/logic.9.html
23:13 rue_school I can make you an answer, I dont want to bother if its not of use to you
23:13 Tom_itx logic9 is another similar function
23:13 ^kat^ before the dew gets on it and damages it's fragile motor
23:13 Tom_itx rue_school, don't bother until i have a flow chart for you
23:13 rue_school Tom_itx, this documetation is CRAP without examples
23:13 rue_school there is no flow chart for a llookup tables
23:14 rue_school as there is no state machines
23:14 rue_school its not statefull
23:14 Tom_itx yeah, it's open source
23:14 rue_school its just a lookup
23:14 Tom_itx and free
23:14 rue_school yea, my code is free too, its not all screwed up like that is
23:14 ^kat^ i wonder how far a C-130's turboprop would get on the nose of a two-seater
23:14 Tom_itx are you volunteering to fix it?
23:15 ^kat^ Tom, no, he already did that
23:15 rue_school if someone will do the politics for me
23:15 Tom_itx it has a few rules you must adhere to
23:15 rue_school I'm stuck in vancouver for 4 or 5 more weeks, I'm borred as all hell
23:15 Tom_itx so it will work with the rest of things
23:16 rue_school yea, I just need to know how to make a fn that is passed values and returns values
23:16 ^kat^ i have a feeling the torque of gunning the engine behind that big prop would flip the 2-seater over on the runway
23:18 ^kat^ zhanx, what's with the C130's with the X midway up on the tail?
23:18 Tom_itx sleep time for real this time...
23:18 Tom_itx gnite
23:19 rue_school didn't answer my question about the logic formula
23:19 rue_school if I give you the formula a&((/b&c) | (b&/c)) can you make it into logic for linuxcnc?
23:19 at^ has a pic of a C130 landing on the USS Forre
23:20 rue_school I'm not going to bother working out his table untill I know
23:20 rue_school just a big or of a bunch of ands with some notty paramiters
23:20 rue_school meters
23:20 ^kat^ and taxiing, and taking off
23:20 rue_school kat, you like planes, and tanks?
23:20 rue_school and you have some passion for boats
23:20 ^kat^ planes
23:21 ^kat^ well, i can't live on a pane, and who wants to live in a tank?
23:21 rue_school meh, ask z, but I wouldn't say its practical
23:21 rue_school tho I hear they are a steal of a deal at wallmart
23:21 rue_school hmm
23:22 ^kat^ i haven't seen any there
23:22 rue_school spaceship is the other situation where your machine is your life, so you keep it well kept
23:23 ^kat^ well, i figure if the usa keeps pissing on me, especially regarding dogs, i can weigh anchor and drift to Bahamas
23:23 rue_school the dorm chair creeks badly, I tightened the bolts, still does it
23:23 rue_school I want to boil it in oil
23:26 rue_school so, how do you use state machines for fuzzy frequency detection?
23:26 ^kat^ i don't
23:26 rue_school pattern detection with state machines
23:26 rue_school hmmm
23:28 rue_school ok, well, having a statefull problem to solve with a state machine sounds like a good start
23:29 ^kat^ yeas, but not variable freq detection
23:29 rue_school why not
23:29 rue_school cause you dont have an input mechanism defined
23:29 rue_school oh
23:29 rue_school how about 8 bit audio samples
23:29 rue_school I cant help you on this
23:29 rue_school why not
23:30 rue_school I cant
23:30 ^kat^ i wasn't the one with the problem :-)
23:30 rue_school my problem is I dont have a structured problem
23:30 rue_school and it seems there is nobody who is a master of state machines
23:30 rue_school less woz
23:30 ^kat^ ok, i gotta go bring in tools, bbiaf
23:30 rue_school yes, less woz and I dont know if he's up to it anymore
23:31 rue_school dont forget the welding gloves!
23:31 rue_school how much should I spend on a new electronic welding mask?
23:31 rue_school how should I live my life?
23:31 rue_school dont ask that
23:31 rue_school why not?
23:31 rue_school your answer has to be your own
23:31 rue_school why?
23:32 rue_school cause you cant get a refund if you dont like the outcome
23:32 rue_school and I cant buy other peoples outcomes?
23:32 rue_school picasso's brush
23:32 rue_school oh damnit
23:33 rue_school once again, I'm standing on the top of the pile looking for a way to go up, and there's no help
23:33 rue_school I dont care that I'm on top, I just need to be up more
23:33 rue_school your gonna get sutupid, you only have a few years left
23:34 rue_school you gonna help me make that brain scanner?
23:34 rue_school you already know the data would be useless
23:34 rue_school there must be a way
23:35 rue_school its a lot of work you know, nonally do you have to build a new operaiting platform, you have to rewrite all the software to work on it
23:35 rue_school but this is my life at steak
23:35 rue_school yea plus or minus
23:35 rue_school did we wash the dishes?
23:35 rue_school yes
23:35 rue_school stove off
23:35 rue_school hell yea
23:36 rue_school am I going to go stark raving crazy?
23:36 rue_school yes.
23:36 rue_school is that a bad thing?
23:36 rue_school mmmm...... out to lunch on that one dude
23:36 rue_school your still at the fork in the road you know
23:37 rue_school I just cant see having a kid work out
23:37 rue_school and your scared it will positivly spell death?
23:37 rue_school well I sure as to hell cant do both can I
23:37 rue_school feeling like you have the lifecycle of a pixie?
23:38 rue_school the pixies with the life of a fruitfly or the other ones
23:38 rue_school fruitfly
23:38 rue_school yea
23:38 rue_school well, we need a plan
23:38 rue_school yea I have to stop goofing off and make progress
23:39 rue_school yup
23:39 rue_school but where to start?
23:39 rue_school whats your goal? 19000 years?
23:39 rue_school 19000 years sure makes the idea of even living 300 years seem pitifull
23:40 rue_school yea I need help on this
23:40 rue_school there is no help dude
23:40 rue_school hah, your it, mr motivation
23:40 rue_school woo!
23:40 rue_school everyone I know is gonna die
23:40 rue_school yea, sorry about that
23:41 rue_school :(
23:41 rue_school want a hankie?
23:41 rue_school no, I'm ok for now
23:41 rue_school so, how you gonna do it
23:41 rue_school well, nothing was ever done all at once
23:41 rue_school so I need a corner to lift
23:41 rue_school someting easy
23:41 rue_school yea
23:43 rue_school biomechanical hybrid is not an avoidable option in this is it
23:43 rue_school I was hoping it was
23:43 rue_school your a hybrid already, fake tooth
23:43 rue_school thanks for pointing it out
23:44 rue_school could I tear one of your arms off?
23:44 rue_school no
23:44 rue_school ok
23:48 rue_school you need to learn to merge data, and instruction
23:48 rue_school it sounds profound, or not
23:48 rue_school hmm, shall i restate?
23:48 rue_school oh do, oh do.
23:49 rue_school the ... language barrier
23:49 rue_school damn
23:49 rue_school yea it sucks
23:51 rue_school you know, you might just not be ready yet
23:51 rue_school I'm running low on time, can we accelerate things?
23:52 rue_school if your not ready, your not ready, you just wont put the facts togethor
23:52 rue_school what If I die before I'm ready?
23:52 rue_school then your not the one
23:52 rue_school :(
23:52 rue_school sorry, thats how it is
23:53 rue_school can I plead for mercy and get a hand up?
23:53 rue_school not likeley, no.
23:53 rue_school but I'm friendly and nice.
23:53 rue_school its not about that
23:53 rue_school I'm smart
23:53 rue_school but are you smart enough?
23:54 rue_school everyone just dies, I dont want to just die
23:54 rue_school thats reasonable.
23:55 rue_school is anyone watching?
23:55 ^kat^ bak
23:55 rue_school the idea of the mirror is that you cant see thru it
23:55 rue_school so.?
23:55 rue_school so you cant know
23:55 ^kat^ so there's partial mirrors
23:55 rue_school indeed
23:56 rue_school the people in the dorm next over are breaking out in cheering, I'm guessing they are watching sports
23:56 rue_school a guy down the hall is clipping his nails
23:56 rue_school sometimes it would be nice to be deaf
23:57 ^kat^ geyou have no wire nuts, and you call yurself an electrician?
23:57 rue_school and there is the high freq noise in my ears, one day I want to simulate that
23:57 rue_school heh
23:57 rue_school too hard for my ears
23:57 ^kat^ grab wingnuts (TM) backeards and screw em into your ears
23:57 ^kat^ use yellow ones
23:58 rue_school tho I have the mp3 plater
23:58 rue_school playe
23:58 rue_school r
23:58 ^kat^ good for 4 #14 barely, with pliers
23:58 ^kat^ the new MP3 Platers!! for making metal records!
23:59 ^kat^ there ya go, print a digital record, where each dot culd be a 1, or a 0 if it's missing