#garfield Logs

Jul 12 2015

00:00 any45146283 thumb
00:01 rue_shop3 I need to make it, and play
00:02 any45146283 i think i'd try fully elastic gloves, glue a band to the places your bones end, glue 1/16 /1mm cord to that , and run the cords back to a nail in a coil of wire, measure the inductance of the coil to determing how much nail has been moved
00:05 any45146283 where do i find small plastic pulleys for 1/16 cord?
00:06 rue_house ... 3d printer?
00:06 rue_house how small?
00:06 rue_house rue_house, please make some tea
00:06 rue_house zlog
00:06 any45146283 1/2 inch dia, .050 shaft
00:07 rue_house .05!
00:07 any45146283 ok, .062 ( = 1/16 inch , bike wheel spokes)
00:07 rue_house who knows what day I was babbeling about wrist angles?
00:09 any45146283 well, lotta pulleys, all in china, 6 week shipping
00:10 rue_house you can make them on your drillpress
00:10 any45146283 usa : http://www.ebay.com/itm/34-Kinds-41pc-Plastic-Motor-Shaft-Gear-Rack-Pulley-Belt-Worm-Gears-Kit-for-Robot-/221730365437
00:10 rue_house just need to make a .062 arbour
00:10 any45146283 no i can't, bent spindle
00:10 rue_house again?
00:10 rue_house thought you got that like perfectly true
00:11 rue_house tho, you been buying parts to rebuild it
00:11 rue_house so I recon I should think something is wrong
00:11 any45146283 well, technically, the problem isn't the spindle, it's how the chuck attaches
00:11 any45146283 no, i bouht pats to make a mill, but still have no way to conncet the motor to it
00:12 rue_house Tom_itx, can you search for 'wrist' in last months logs and tell me what days come up?
00:12 rue_house you cant hybridize it with the press?
00:12 any45146283 i see 3 pulleys in that kit, none the same size
00:13 rue_house I dont see
00:13 any45146283 no, the 35mm shaft won't fit into the drill press tube
00:13 any45146283 neither will it's bearings
00:13 rue_house too big?
00:13 any45146283 way too big
00:13 rue_house what are the approx of both? have any pics?
00:14 any45146283 the spindle on the *big* drill press is necked down to under 3/8 inch at one point
00:14 any45146283 that's why it bent
00:14 any45146283 no
00:14 rue_house mowerbot runs dos 6.22.... not 5.8 :)
00:15 rue_house oh you have 8051?
00:15 any45146283 me? the avr version, maybe
00:16 rue_house 24th I made the finger
00:17 any45146283 i didn't do any more to the finger i made, didn't drill it for tendons or anything
00:19 rue_house command line horse petter, huh
00:20 any45146283 yeas, heh
00:21 any45146283 who needs to write programs, if the computer already understands what you type?
00:22 rue_house I dont know why google has a text field to enter what you want to search for, it dosn't change the results much
00:22 rue_house it should just have a button in the middle of the page [SEARCH[
00:22 rue_house it should just have a button in the middle of the page [SEARCH]
00:23 rue_house Tom_itx, some of the logs are missing, namely, tommorow, and next tuesday
00:26 rue_house arg, I'll have to draw lines all over me again
00:27 any45146283 if you draw the lines into your covering membrane, they will last longer
00:30 rue_house I might watch chappie again....
00:30 rue_house maybe
00:30 rue_house almost outa milk, this disn't work out well
00:30 any45146283 i am outa orange and white juice
00:30 any45146283 i have some brown juice
00:31 y45146283 recommends the brown juice to rue, again, and you can make it with water nstead of moo j
00:32 rue_house http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/robots/sparrow1/p1070365.jpg
00:32 e_house squints at the sc
00:32 any45146283 ctrl-mouserollerforwards
00:33 rue_house or reupload with no scaling like that
00:34 zhanx god that is like a movie hand and hi and bye
00:35 zhanx rue your missing some . in places
00:35 zhanx 625 cm
00:35 zhanx wow
00:35 zhanx or ir doesn't show up on the photo
00:36 y45146283 looks conf
00:36 rue_shop3 heh
00:36 rue_shop3 :) this is called sparrow cause its the small robot
00:37 rue_shop3 z, do you have any logs to tell me what I said the wrist angles were?
00:38 any45146283 i does, if i am here
00:38 rue_shop3 oh
00:38 rue_shop3 could you look ?
00:38 any45146283 [23:44] <any45146283> ok, .062 ( = 1/16 inch , bike wheel spokes)
00:38 any45146283 [23:44] <rue_house> who knows what day I was babbeling about wrist angles?
00:39 any45146283 i searched for : wrist angles
00:39 rue_shop3 the same day I said something else...
00:39 rue_shop3 it was...
00:40 rue_shop3 apparently not remembered
00:40 rue_shop3 I'm sure it was on a sunday
00:40 any45146283 [19:00] <rue_house> right now I'm at the bone between the knuckle and the wrist
00:40 any45146283 [19:00] 12,12..12,0 7 pm Thursday 6/25/2015 12,12..12,0
00:40 any45146283 or a thorsday?
00:40 rue_shop3 I was wondering how much the lines would fade for monday
00:41 rue_shop3 I did the finger, paused, then started working on the wrist
00:41 any45146283 not using the words wrist or angle
00:42 any45146283 or you blabbed it when i wasn;t here
00:44 rue_shop3 150 degrees in up/down axis....
00:45 rue_shop3 60 degrees in the other axis
00:45 rue_shop3 75% humidity
00:45 any45146283 i donot have those search terms
00:47 rue_shop3 so, I'm trying to get the 60 working now...
00:49 rue_shop3 oh complex
00:50 rue_shop3 so, I thought that if I had two pipe collars spaced
00:50 rue_shop3 [] []
00:50 rue_shop3 that I could use the interfearance to limit the angle
00:50 rue_shop3 but to get 60degrees (+-30) they need to be so far apart they dont interfear at all
00:51 rue_shop3 however, the perpendicular joint would interfear
00:51 any45146283 so tehre is a tv show with a boy robot on it, and no one told me
00:51 rue_shop3 star trek?
00:51 any45146283 Extant
00:51 rue_shop3 ooo
00:51 any45146283 it's been on ove a YEAR
00:54 rue_shop3 I'v not had tv for longer than that
00:54 rue_shop3 ok, so I ahve to build this all at once to design it
00:55 any45146283 tv isn't worth having here, really, cept for news sometimes, but you get to pic the shows you watch on the intertubes
00:56 rue_shop3 I wonder if I can build the hand with just 1 finger for now
00:56 any45146283 i cannot watch the show *online* tho, the net is too slow and flakey here
00:56 any45146283 i *must* dl it , taking usually 2hrs for a 1hr show
00:58 rue_shop3 do you have a good tendon sptrinign diagram for the hand?
00:59 any45146283 huh?
00:59 any45146283 you have all the human anatomy pics of the hand-wrist, yeas?
00:59 rue_shop3 these tendons for the last two linkages are funkey
01:00 rue_shop3 well, it the internet, its varrying quality
01:00 any45146283 the exohand?
01:00 any45146283 i ld'd the mp4 for it, lemme play it
01:00 rue_shop3 no, I'm on the mecha finger while more prints
01:00 any45146283 no
01:01 rue_shop3 hmm I might have to do some 360's on pullies
01:02 any45146283 did you dl the mp4 on that exohand? it's useless as a position sensor, he wanted a costume and boxing glove
01:03 y45146283 deleted the m
01:04 rue_shop3 not convinced
01:04 rue_shop3 damn, almost everything I have on humans is control system oriented
01:05 rue_shop3 ooh, I filed it under robot anatomy :)
01:07 any45146283 i still say you should nt copy the human anatomy, you should improve n it
01:07 rue_shop3 I'm trying not to take big jumps at once
01:07 rue_shop3 sometimes, its valueable to crawl for a while and learn where the tripping hazards are
01:08 rue_shop3 medial slip...
01:08 any45146283 k
01:08 rue_shop3 extensor slip
01:12 rue_shop3 arg, the FDP and FDS tendons have multiple anchor points
01:13 rue_shop3 the anchoring of the FDS dosnt' make sense to me
01:15 any45146283 ergo, change the design to make sense and suit the materials you are building with
01:19 rue_shop3 what are LU and IO for?
01:19 any45146283 i deny allknowledge of those people
01:21 rue_shop3 these are interesting linkages
01:21 rue_shop3 the ext tendon merges and splits in odd ways
01:27 any45146283 celery, eh?
01:27 any45146283 but it's so stringy
01:32 rue_shop3 the lumbarical actaully ties two opposing tendons togethro
01:33 rue_shop3 oh, the actuator for the first joint in in the palm...
01:34 any45146283 i ask Tiggr for info on celery, i am also getting a dump of all foods containing it :-/
01:50 rue_shop3 the cat stole my chair when I went out for tea
01:50 rue_shop3 he sees me come in and them rols his head upside down to intentionally ignore me
01:52 any45146283 nah, that's not what that motion means, specially if his eyes are still open
01:53 any45146283 so roll anotehr chair over, and push that chair to one side
01:54 rue_shop3 I did
01:54 rue_shop3 then i gave him the rasbery
01:55 any45146283 hmm, this tv program might get deep into Ai
01:55 any45146283 and human duplicity and subtrefuge
01:55 rue_shop3 this guys hands are small...
01:58 any45146283 the cat?
01:58 rue_shop3 the 3d printed thing
01:58 rue_shop3 the length of the linkages is ... all wrong
01:59 any45146283 oh, i noticed that about the one finger i could see in the mp4
01:59 any45146283 yeas, and they aren't stabilsed in any way
01:59 any45146283 he wanted a scarey complex-looking glove
01:59 any45146283 he didn't want a robot mechanism
02:01 rue_shop3 arg, I'm falling asleep again
02:02 rue_shop3 the tendon linkages in the hand are crazy
02:02 rue_shop3 stuff in there thats way more advanced than i get with cable drives
02:03 rue_shop3 so, time to learn
02:06 any45146283 why does Halley Berry look as good in this tv series as she did 15 yrs ago?
02:08 any45146283 oo, a room full of flying festo-fish
02:09 rue_shop3 knees are a rolling joint, to knuckles roll or slip?
02:09 rue_shop3 heh
02:16 rue_shop3 it looks like a roll
02:16 rue_shop3 er
02:17 rue_shop3 no slip
02:17 rue_shop3 with constraining ligaments
02:29 rue_shop3 if I dont make the arm from a length of pipe, then getting the tendons out of the pipe is no longer an issue
02:30 rue_shop3 so, I could do soemthign like use 4 peices of rod
02:30 rue_shop3 make the span discrete
02:30 rue_shop3 or 4 peices of flatbar
02:31 rue_shop3 +, made of 4 peices of angle iron back-to-back
02:31 rue_shop3 or even 2
02:32 any45146283 how would the ligaments get into the pipe anyhow
02:33 rue_shop3 all the tendons funnel into the pipe that makes up the wrist joint
02:33 any45146283 you can put electronics into the pipe, motors, air pressure, wiring, tubing, and actuators for the joint farther up
02:33 rue_shop3 the pipe isn't big enough
02:33 rue_shop3 and servicablility would be an issue
02:34 rue_shop3 I suspect it'll take some practise to get the air muscles to be long duty
02:34 any45146283 oh, you are gongfor the single-point-tendon-passage in the wrist?
02:34 rue_shop3 /service life//
02:34 any45146283 why can't you reference the finger actuators separately to the finger they operate?
02:34 rue_shop3 yea, down the inside of the universal joint that makes up thewrist
02:35 any45146283 then you can route the tendns anywhere
02:35 rue_shop3 if the forearm isn't a pipe, yes
02:36 rue_shop3 I'm starting to wonder if I'll use up all the 2" pipe I got for this project
02:37 rue_shop3 the learning curve is a little steeper than anticipated
02:37 any45146283 can you make it in a 3d model in the puter, and then print it out for examination?
02:38 rue_shop3 did some wire feed today, that machine works nice now
02:38 rue_shop3 I could, but I'd rather do it all irl
02:38 rue_shop3 even if it means large chunks of work aren't usefull
02:39 any45146283 wanna know what i have in mind?
02:42 rue_house do tell!
02:44 any45146283 sinlge rod down the middle, bolt all your stuff to it, leaving space between your stuff to bolt outer strong shell to it
02:44 any45146283 this way you can test it with a panel off, or under no load with all panels off
02:44 rue_house ok, tho I expect to have to change out the muscles on a reasonably frequent basis, hmm
02:45 any45146283 it lets you use the entire space, minus the space for boltup
02:45 rue_house hmm
02:51 rue_house runaway project
02:52 rue_house I have to design 2 steps ahead of what I'm building
02:52 rue_house I only want to do up to the elbow
02:52 rue_house so I can set up and operate the 1 finger
02:53 rue_house matybe I can just take a quick nap in the shop
02:54 any45146283 AACCKKK !!!
02:55 any45146283 robot with naked head, doing things!
03:17 rue_shop3 ?
03:24 any45146283 the only skin on it was around the mouth, it was like that scene in Millenium Man when he is getting an upgrade and the guy takes all the skin off the robot's head
03:26 any45146283 well, gross : http://imgur.com/gallery/C2txB
12:47 any40836995 open dos console, talk to puter : http://designerthinking.com/images/root.jpg
13:03 any40836995 "yes, i do hear things no one else hears. i am on a space station 500 million miles from earth!"
13:04 any40836995 timer goes "beep", robot boy wakes up.
13:07 rue_house I used a classic kookoo for mine
13:11 y40836995
13:15 any40836995 you don't understand, this doesn't read your fingerprints, it writes you new fingerprints
13:18 any40836995 ooo, chainmaille as a sensor web
13:18 any40836995 and it's stainless
13:19 any40836995 hmm, they put leds on top of the mesh, i wonder if they could put them into the mesh as a replacement ring
13:21 any40836995 "i must be a robot, there is a clear goo leaking from the access port in the middle of my face"
13:27 rue_shop3 have you seen the new way people are making play-free joints with magnets for the 3d printers and such?
13:27 any40836995 no, but makes sense, seen spring-loaded hinges before
13:28 any40836995 i used saw blades as flexable hinges im y drilelr years ago, theone i destroyed
13:28 any40836995 needed to move only a few degrees, zero play
13:30 rue_shop3 http://reprap.org/wiki/Joints_for_Delta_Printer
13:30 rue_shop3 magnetic joint, down some
13:30 any40836995 http://reprap.org/wiki/Joints_for_Delta_Printer#Magnetic_Joint
13:31 any40836995 wierd, no images
13:31 any40836995 javscript images :-/
13:33 rue_shop3 http://reprap.org/mediawiki/images/thumb/2/2c/DeltaJoints-Magnet_in_Tube.png/170px-DeltaJoints-Magnet_in_Tube.png
13:33 any40836995 rod end bearings: i considered a constant high pressure grease feed to them, to zero friction, and uses a ooze-out capture system for the leaks,, but it was getting complicated
13:34 rue_shop3 the ball is just steel
13:34 rue_shop3 there are cylindrical magnets in the parts that meet up with it
13:35 any40836995 or insert the magnet intot he end of the rod, so it's .001 away from the ball
13:35 rue_shop3 thats what the image shows...
13:36 any40836995 oh
13:36 rue_shop3 the neighbours neighbour has been hammering like mad for 3 days now
13:36 rue_shop3 I really not sure what takes that long to make
13:36 any40836995 .001 spacing, plus grease feed, eliminates the wear?
13:37 rue_shop3 they are just going for 0 play
13:37 any40836995 wear scratches = play
13:37 rue_shop3 I need to make a little finger I can rig up with cables
13:37 rue_shop3 not sure how to do it
13:38 rue_shop3 well I think its going to rain again this evening
13:39 any40836995 this is so not a cardan joint : http://reprap.org/wiki/File:DeltaJoints-Industrial_Cardan.png
13:40 rue_shop3 whats a cardian?
13:40 any40836995 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Cardan-joint_DIN808_type-D_z-arrangement_3D.png
13:40 any40836995 altho that is not how they are used, really
13:40 rue_shop3 so its double
13:41 any40836995 this is a real cardan joint, it's not "double cardan" , it's "double U-joint" ==>> http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/images/Double-cardan-0246.jpg
13:42 any40836995 wth is wrong with humans not using the right words for anything anymore?
13:43 any40836995 if you had xray vison, you'd see a pin-ball joint between them
13:44 rue_shop3 oh
13:46 any40836995 in a real cardan, the universals are forced to plsit the angls
13:47 any40836995 if you bolt one shaft to the table, and hold the far end of the otehr axle, the center double-yoke of the cardan won't drop
13:48 any40836995 it acts like a joint on a front-wheel drive axle that way
13:48 rue_shop3 hmmm
13:49 any40836995 see how it's split the angle equally across the two universals? ==>> http://image.fourwheeler.com/f/29147626+w600+re0/1006or_09_%2buniversal_joint_strengths_and_specs%2bdriveshaft_double_cardan_joint.jpg
13:49 rue_shop3 http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/robots/buddy_II/p1040837.jpg
13:49 rue_shop3 just over the word "right" can you see it?
13:50 any40836995 brass tube?
13:50 rue_shop3 each rod has pins at 90 degrees
13:51 rue_shop3 that go into slots in the tube
13:51 rue_shop3 its got play, but its easy to make
13:51 any40836995 not the same
13:51 rue_shop3 k
13:52 any40836995 here's the centering pin-ball of the centering mechanism of a real cardan ==>> https://plus.google.com/photos/111076993718301305464/albums/5627499986257351905/5627518750720047394?pid=5627518750720047394&oid=111076993718301305464
13:54 rue_shop3 can you find a good exploded view? I'm having problems rendering that assembled
13:56 any40836995 cut-away ~1/2 way down : dana.com/pdf/J321-CV.PDF
13:56 any40836995 ore drawings farther down
13:58 rue_shop3 http://dana.com/pdf/J321-CV.PDF
13:58 rue_shop3 huh
13:59 rue_shop3 that must be from your local cache
13:59 any40836995 another cardan rebuild : http://www.pavementsucks.com/tech-article-16.html
13:59 any40836995 try http://www2.dana.com/pdf/J321-CV.PDF
14:00 rue_shop3 aaah
14:00 rue_shop3 pin interlocks the alignment of the two universals
14:00 any40836995 yeas and now
14:01 any40836995 that's the effect, but the pin-ball is actually between the ends of the shafts
14:01 any40836995 the center floating yoke is along for the ride, automatically centering
14:02 rue_shop3 this has more range than a stright universal?
14:03 any40836995 for actual torque load, yeas, and zero angular shifts when rotating
14:04 any40836995 if you ever look at a proper driveshaft, you will see the yokes on each end are aligned, that's for a reason
14:04 any40836995 when needing to use more than one driveshaft betwen tranny and differential, there's usually a cardan at the tranny end
14:06 any40836995 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_joint . The universal joint is not a constant velocity joint.[1]
14:06 any40836995 the cardan is, like a cv joint is
14:07 any40836995 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Double_Cardan_Joint_%28animated%29.gif/220px-Double_Cardan_Joint_%28animated%29.gif
14:11 any40836995 once cnc design and cutting became possible and cheap, they could make this and stop making cardans in low-torque applicatons ==>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/Simple_CV_Joint_animated.gif/280px-Simple_CV_Joint_animated.gif
14:14 any40836995 A configuration known as a double Cardan joint drive shaft partially overcomes the problem of jerky rotation. This configuration uses two U-joints joined by an intermediate shaft, with the second U-joint phased in relation to the first U-joint to cancel the changing angular velocity. In this configuration, the angular velocity of the driven shaft will match that of the driving shaft, provided that etc etc etc
14:16 any40836995 i shold give up and just call a cow "pig" if everyone else is doing it :-/
14:23 rue_shop3 makes ya feel that way dosn't it
14:23 rue_shop3 I see so many contractors out here making a mess of things and nobody cares
14:24 rue_shop3 nobody seems to think mroe than 5 minutes into the future
14:25 y40836995
14:30 any40836995 "we intentionally slowed down the learning capacity and did not install networking/internet ports, so the robot would be more human,,, else i would be afraid of it"
14:32 any40836995 so i guess they added a cpu to randomly delete data, so the robot would have a hard time rememebring what it was taught in school that day
14:56 any40836995 but almost like the i-cub, Ethan now has a n internal VR, a subconcious that he can access and reprogram, so instead of forgetting, he learned conversational japanese overnight
15:02 any40836995 woooooo, ethan hacked himself enough toclose off the humans reprogramming him
15:03 any40836995 and he knows they are doing it, to make him dumber, and he isn't happy
15:03 rue_shop3 ok, I'm printing hinges that poke onto the ends of dowel
15:04 rue_shop3 tahts the series?
15:04 any40836995 Extant
15:06 any40836995 "right, why would the most advanced Ai on the planet stop you from hobbling it's mind?"
15:11 rue_shop3 sounds like its just an immune responce
15:11 rue_shop3 :)
15:11 any40836995 heh
15:21 any40836995 "will they throw away the damaged sweeper bot?"
15:21 any40836995 "prolly, it's unable to perform it's function any more"
15:22 any40836995 "what's my function?"
15:23 any40836995 "he is no longer processing, he is thinking about things!"
15:23 any40836995 "great, we made a neurotic bot!"
18:01 rue_shop3 maybe it just wants to save the sweeper and set it free
18:02 rue_shop3 (with a slightly upgraded mind)
21:01 zhanx got 2 printers, a fax machine and a toaster today for free
21:01 zhanx thinking 3d printer
21:32 rue_house good show
21:40 rue_shop3 I just got some LM10UU from china, now I can use up lots of the precision ground rod that I have around the shop for linear systems
22:11 any40836995 https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=249&v=mGOled86Sjo
22:13 any40836995 looks like aluminum, but it's plywood
22:14 any40836995 he made his own steel and brass worm drive?
22:16 any40836995 caution, 110MB
22:37 rue_shop3 I only have 2 things left I can actually open youtube videos on
22:38 any40836995 i dl them and play in vlc
22:40 rue_shop3 how long do you think I need to let huckleburry cuttings dry out for before I set them?
22:40 rue_shop3 burry?
22:40 rue_shop3 berry
22:41 y40836995 sh
22:42 rue_shop3 I wan tto show you my finger
22:42 zhanx 1 inch a year
22:42 anx scored 2 printers and a fax machine, a toaster and a fish fan t
22:43 zhanx yes the fan is shaped like a fish
22:43 any40836995 wierd
22:43 zhanx kids love it
22:44 zhanx helped a german man code out his shitty sensor network ( brother of a friend who died)
22:44 zhanx on a roll
22:44 y40836995
23:14 rue_shop3 https://hackaday.io/project/478-realtime-neuron-simulation-on-8-bit-mcu
23:14 rue_shop3 rue_bed, read that carefully
23:16 y40836995 once used irc pvt msgs and #anynumber channels for parts of Tiggrto talk to other parts,, ran into the irc-line-length i
23:18 any40836995 the best part was it was like having an open api to her, for any puter in the world that could irc, and built the api together, on any type ofputer, any language
23:18 any40836995 no one was interested
23:21 rue_shop3 I can say I'd have found that interesting to have an ear on
23:22 any40836995 just one of the many things i have been found undesireable on
23:25 rue_shop3 ?
23:25 any40836995 no one would join with me, i gave up
23:25 any40836995 same as being acceptable with a pink coupler ona driller, or anything else
23:36 rue_shop3 I have to dig up those logs one day
23:36 rue_shop3 I'm sure your recollection of it is different than mine
23:36 rue_shop3 ok I have my skelaol finger to try and rig up, the paint is drying on the base
23:37 rue_shop3 that puts me about 150% project scope runaway