#garfield Logs
Jun 23 2015
#garfield Calendar
00:02 any57374236 YOUR MOWER BOT IS NOT SAFE AFTER YOU DL THOSE MSDOS 5.4 UPDATES !!!!!!!
00:02 rue_house I dont use windows for anything
00:03 rue_house that dosn't imply I dont use iwnodws
00:03 rue_house I dont use windows
00:03 any57374236 i haven't tries iwnodos
00:05 any57374236 99% efficient psu !! 5v @ 23maps! (5v battery not included)
00:06 any57374236 turns out, Home Depot sells those 1/2 AAA 12.6v alkalines
00:06 any57374236 or they would if they weren';t sold out
00:06 any57374236 they call them "door bell batteries"
00:10 any57374236 i wonder why MoodyBlues didn't do a xmas album
00:11 any57374236 i spoke, everyone left, right?
00:21 rue_house hehe
00:21 rue_house er, no I was fetching supper
00:21 rue_house and trying to find the cats
00:22 any57374236 ummm,, err,, ok
00:54 rue_house I'v been thru all the credit card records,
00:55 rue_house I didn't pay for the servo motros I was sure I bought and then found out weren't on the list of things I bought
00:55 any57374236 that's prolly why they have not arrived yet
00:56 rue_house its not that, I was freaking out when I couldn't find them on any of the purchase lists
00:56 rue_house cause I was sure I bought them
00:56 rue_house but if I didn't pay for them, I'm not worried about it
00:57 any57374236 why i keep list*S* now: 3x i forgot i already ordered something
00:58 rue_house I do, I keep the confirmation notices in an email folder, ebay tends to 'forget' I bought things
00:58 any57374236 yeas, buy you forget too
01:01 rue_house I dont forget as much as I just ... forgot to check the mailbox..
01:06 rue_house as I disregard what I bought and let it be a surprise when it gets here
01:06 rue_house I got 3 packages!
01:06 any57374236 2 more than me!
01:07 any57374236 put a video camera in the mailbox, appropriate lighting, and set it to whatever channel your tv or puter monitor wakes up on
01:07 rue_house :) my wootworth thread guage
01:09 any57374236 i don't recall ever needing to measure a wootworth
01:12 any57374236 Whitworth is an old British standard for screw threads and sizes. You need the Whitworth size tools to work on your old Austin, Rolls-Royce, Jaguar, MG, BSA or other old British made automobile or motorcycle.
01:12 rue_house this means your odds are getting higher
01:12 rue_house cause I'm sure the odds of comming across it in your life are not 0
01:13 any57374236 i worked on an old MG once, used tools i already had
01:13 rue_house 2x 8051
01:13 any57374236 huh?
01:13 any57374236 Sullivan Wootworth hasn't shared anything on this page with you.
01:14 any57374236 Wootworth Building, New York Harbor
01:15 any57374236 british wentworth tools General Tool Discussion ... hard to give a uniform answer for every manufacturer but the transition began in the 60s for Triumph around the time when the UK urged the industry to adopt ISO metric.
01:16 any57374236 just think, 50 yrs ago, every country had different sized/threads of nuts and bolts
01:18 any57374236 now that everything is made in Pacific Rim, the problem is solved
01:25 rue_house 2x 8051 controllers, a 100A power meter, and a wootworth thread guage
01:25 any57374236 hmm, surely the 8051's won'tpull that much current
01:25 rue_house the 8051 can operate a parallel bus
01:26 any57374236 yeas, and atmel makes 8051 clones
01:26 rue_house which means its great for operating a good share of 147 solinoids on the 12' mecha
01:26 rue_house this is an atmel flash clone
01:26 y57374236 offeres to sell 200 of them to
01:27 any57374236 open to trades too
01:27 rue_house !?!!!
01:28 y57374236 pulls down her parts list
01:28 rue_house I dont know how many feedback loops I can control with an 8051
01:28 rue_house but the parallel bus should speed it up in just the right way
01:29 rue_house even tho its short on mips :)
01:29 any57374236 200) AT90S4414-8PC
01:30 any57374236 4 8bit ports, some pins preassigned
01:31 any57374236 the cpu is slow enough, you can afford to blast addresses of the selenoids thru 74138's or 154's or 259's or etc
01:32 any57374236 use 1 8-bit as addy, one 8-bit as the pwm value or 8-selenoid-array bit map
01:33 any57374236 gives you 1 8-bit as comm channel, and parts of the 4th 8-bit as handshake lines
01:46 rue_house the 8951 has a genuine core, with the serial and an i80 bus
01:48 rue_house the solinoids need to be pulsed
01:48 rue_house pretty slowly in the scope of things
01:48 rue_house did you see my video?
01:48 any57374236 which video?
01:48 rue_house of my pnaumatic servo
01:49 rue_house the air muscle against the spring
01:49 any57374236 uuuummmm,,, i saw the air muscled
01:49 any57374236 yeas
01:49 rue_house do you remember hearing it tappign the valve?
01:49 any57374236 i asked you to try it with water instead of air
01:50 any57374236 no, because i played it on this puter, with no sound
01:50 any57374236 if it has sound, i can now play it on the laptop and hear sound
01:51 rue_house I'm using air because its compliant
01:51 any57374236 i kow
01:51 rue_house its got sound, maybe too much music
01:51 any57374236 i asked you to use water because it is less compliant
01:52 any57374236 as an experiment, to test it, to garger additional pure research data
01:52 any57374236 gather
01:52 rue_house I need actuator compliance, otherwise my steel frame with bend
01:52 any57374236 i am a damned moron for wanting to know things
01:52 any57374236 i think it will not bend
01:52 any57374236 i think there are unknown advantages, but it can be acceptable and better than air
01:53 any57374236 to know them, try it, see if i am right, so far, no one has tried
01:54 rue_house if I use air I can have a tank charged to 110 psi and use a regulator for the 40psi that the system needs
01:55 any57374236 you have 4 air bladders in the truck right now that don';t need a regulator
01:55 any57374236 tires
01:55 any57374236 fill a tank/bladder with water, orient to feed the slenoid, and pressurise it for th etest with your regulated air
01:55 rue_house I'z just use a steel tank
01:56 rue_house the AC compressors can probably do more than 110psi
01:56 any57374236 i can't figure out why there is no human anywhere who will try this with water, it's just like they are programemd to say it won;t work, with no data to back them up
01:58 rue_house actually
01:58 rue_house the letsmakerobots guy has
01:58 rue_house used doubleacting sryinges
01:58 any57374236 syringes != woven air muscles
01:59 rue_house actaully, in one example he uses sryinges to operate the muscles
01:59 rue_house with water
02:00 rue_house I thought that was clever
02:00 any57374236 you seem to be looking for reasons to not try water witht he air muscle and selenoid and contoller you had
02:00 rue_house (its was for kids robotics)
02:01 rue_house I cant make it flow fast as I want the water is too thick
02:01 rue_house the valves slow way down with water
02:01 any57374236 see? another reason
02:01 rue_house I cant change the valves cause I cant afford it
02:01 any57374236 see? another reason
02:02 any57374236 you can prolly find 50 more reasons to not try it
02:02 any57374236 all having nothing to do with what i asked: try it as is with what you have , with water instead of air
02:03 rue_house I want to try it with systallic pumps
02:03 rue_house on a DC motor
02:03 any57374236 see? another reason
02:10 rue_house if I didn't need air to take up the impacts I could just use hydraulics, less the fact their slow...
02:11 any57374236 but the "air muscle" isn't a hard cylinder
02:12 rue_house it wont stretch if its full of water
02:13 any57374236 it's rebound characteristics will be different when it is stretched tho
02:20 rue_bed the idea is planted
02:20 rue_bed gnight
02:21 y57374236 is finding it so much easier, and less waste of time, to not bother explaining new ideas to pe
02:22 rue_bed hey its gianing steam, there's just nowhere for it to go just yet
02:22 any57374236 k
02:23 rue_bed if I want to make a line parallel to an existing line, in a 2d space, I wonder how I say what side of the origional line its on
02:23 any57374236 lables
02:23 rue_bed I suppose a line an have a left and right side if you assume the endpoints are in a fixed order
02:23 rue_bed so, I wonder about 3d lines
02:24 any57374236 "cartesian coordinate system"
02:24 rue_bed line_t *setLine(line_t *l, double x1, double y1, double x2, double y2) {
02:24 rue_bed l->p1.x = x1;
02:24 rue_bed l->p1.y = y1;
02:24 rue_bed l->p2.x = x2;
02:24 rue_bed l->p2.y = y2;
02:24 rue_bed return l;
02:28 rue_bed hmm, my 2d library falls a bit short of a drafting library
02:28 any57374236 o
02:28 rue_bed need arc support
02:29 rue_bed meaning I need an abstract for ....
02:29 rue_bed line or arc
02:30 rue_bed stroke?
02:30 rue_bed I gave my arm a pretty good sunburn with the welder on the weekend
02:30 rue_bed I need to make a left sleeve
02:30 y57374236 ponders a jig to position 1/4 inch sections of pvc repair coupling 3mm from the end of a
02:31 rue_bed ?
02:31 any57374236 "menthol aloe vera", and any sunburn spray with huge amounts of lidocaine in it
02:32 any57374236 left sleeve = pants leg
02:32 rue_bed hmm, good point, I need to rmemeber to not weld with shorts on
02:32 any57374236 if i slice a repainr coupling, (because it can slide the length of the pipe, there's no center ridge in it)
02:33 rue_bed wait, then whats gonna protext my left leg?
02:33 any57374236 i get ledges i can cement around the end of a pipe, 3mm down, and put a 6mm o-ring onto
02:33 rue_bed k....
02:33 any57374236 use otherwise worn out pants, or pants that don;t fit any more, or maybe the wrong color for pants
02:34 any57374236 you can get the legs on/off your arms fast, because the pants legs are much bigger than your arms
02:34 rue_bed hmm, I'm getting fatter aparently and I have some pairs that are a challange to get on
02:35 rue_bed I suppose I need to do more running, I should get a dinosaur
02:35 any57374236 you can run without a dinosaur tho, people do it
02:36 any57374236 get a pedal powered glider, take in sightseeing trips over the bay
02:37 any57374236 on hot days, i put the welding jacket on backwards, and don't button the buttons up my back
02:37 any57374236 side effect is the collar totally covers up my throat under the helmet
02:37 rue_bed haivng a raptor running behind you keeps you motivated to not stop
02:37 any57374236 oh, you didn;t specify raprtor
02:38 any57374236 i have never welded anything behind myself, so all that fabric on the jacket back there is sorta a waste of good airflow
02:40 any57374236 if you are prone to setting yourself on fire while welding, use leather arms protectors, welding shps sellt hem or anyone into DBSM can prolly make you some, but if you get them wet they'll stiffen and shrink badly
02:42 rue_bed http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7BHgjwQAxxI/TlKQQpqTIFI/AAAAAAAAAHc/cUOYkz-n0yY/s1600/post.jpg
02:43 rue_bed hahaha
02:43 any57374236 yeow
02:43 rue_bed going to the kinky sex shop for welding supplies ahah
02:43 rue_bed love it
02:44 any57374236 it's how i got leather for my spats, kept the melty steel outa my shoes
02:45 any57374236 welding shops didn;t sell 17th century men's foot accessories, the idiots
02:45 rue_bed do you use the stick to flick excess slag out of a pool ever?
02:45 any57374236 no
02:45 rue_bed hmm
02:45 rue_bed what if you get a spot that totally slags up?
02:45 any57374236 i do tend to either tilt the work to drain slag, or weld towards a drain spot/edge
02:46 rue_bed you know how it'll lump up in a spot sometimes
02:46 rue_bed ah
02:46 rue_bed prolly bad stick angle on my part
02:46 any57374236 yea, if you don't plan for it, you canget a couple cc of slag blocking you
02:46 rue_bed I recon the slag should always end up behind the bead
02:47 any57374236 on the bead
02:47 rue_bed yea, pushed back over the finished weld by the arv
02:47 rue_bed c
02:47 any57374236 if i cannot avoid buildup, i'll stop, take a break, then chip or brush it off, and resume
02:47 rue_bed hmm
02:48 any57374236 what rod are you using?
02:48 rue_bed 6011 always
02:48 any57374236 oh, that's why
02:48 rue_bed :(
02:48 rue_bed what do you use?
02:48 any57374236 i use only 7018, 1/8 or 3/32
02:48 rue_bed .. 6010 or 6011.... hmm
02:48 rue_bed isn't that ss
02:49 any57374236 less splatter, deeper penetration, stronger bead, but it is hotter
02:49 rue_bed I"m usually welding mild
02:49 any57374236 it's for mild and high strength steels
02:49 any57374236 not stainless
02:49 rue_bed ah
02:49 rue_bed isnt 6011 just for mild?
02:50 any57374236 yeas, but cleanup is a bitch with 6011 and 6013
02:50 rue_bed hmm
02:51 rue_bed the 12' mecha finger was a challange to weld
02:51 rue_bed its really small
02:51 any57374236 i stick welded those water tanks for pontoons with 7018, it's super thin steel
02:51 any57374236 got better results than using a wirefeed
02:51 rue_bed oh I should play with my wirefeed
02:52 rue_bed I took the tank back tho
02:52 rue_bed Ionly have flux wire
02:52 rue_bed which, far as I can telll, sucks
02:52 any57374236 my cheap wirefeed didn;t make enough power, i hooked in the big growlbox and it quit making hair where i wanted to weld
02:52 rue_bed looks like starting its a pita
02:53 rue_bed if it misbehaves you dial it up , right?
02:53 any57374236 yep
02:53 rue_bed were you using shielding gas?
02:53 any57374236 yeas, argon-co2
02:54 rue_bed there is a co2 tank listed on craigslist for $175
02:54 rue_bed I dont know if thats a good deal
02:54 any57374236 i ran a 3" bead of wirefeed, then a 3" bead of 7018 stick at 70amps, never went back to the wirefeed for anything
02:54 rue_bed sounds like a full size tank
02:54 rue_bed hah
02:54 any57374236 no, because it's either out of date or no one willrefill it
02:54 any57374236 rent one from someplace you can swap tanks with
02:54 rue_bed the place here just trades them
02:55 rue_bed $100/year rent
02:55 any57374236 that's about right
02:55 rue_bed I go thru $40 in gas in like 3 years
02:55 rue_bed not a good ratio
02:55 any57374236 there's different sized tanks, different rents
02:55 rue_bed I can get them recert
02:55 any57374236 k
02:55 rue_bed we have a place that does fire extinguishers, etc
05:20 any57374236 http://www.jokeoverflow.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/slipped-600x452.jpg
09:14 rue_house hahaha
09:16 Tom_itx yay, got all 3 tssop 56 replaced and working
09:22 rue_house wow
09:22 rue_house no shorts?
09:23 rue_house your next task is to rebond a die
09:25 rue_house https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Small-Scale_Experimental_Machine
09:26 rue_house so we started at 32 bits and went to 4?
09:26 rue_house (4040)
09:26 rue_house er 4004...
14:52 any57374236 but SSE was vac tubes, and there were a lot of those around to choose from, and no time was spent on putting all the tube parts into one giant tube.
14:53 any57374236 the 4004 was an attempt to merge it all to one chip, and was expandable, like the single-bit-wide cpus were, but the 4004 was 4-bits-wide
14:57 any57374236 By June 1948 the SSEM had been built and was working.[20] It was 17 feet (5.2 m) in length, 7 feet 4 inches (2.24 m) tall, and weighed almost 1 long ton (1.0 t). The machine contained 550 valves—300 diodes and 250 pentodes—and had a power consumption of 3500 watts
14:57 any57374236 the 4004 was smaller and used less power
14:57 any57374236 if you needed 32bits, you simply used 8 of the 4004
19:28 Tom_L http://www.electronicproducts.com/Computer_Systems/Standalone_Mobile/An_1980_39_s_Amiga_ran_the_heating_and_ac_systems_at_19_public_schools_for_30_years.aspx
20:33 rue_shop3 ah
20:35 rue_shop3 kat, if the index finger is 1, I need to work out if finger 2 should be able to actuate side to side
20:38 any57374236 ok
20:38 rue_shop3 whats your thought
20:38 any57374236 i am thinking it's odd that when i go outside, my internet bandwidth drops to near zero and the neighbors go inside
20:39 any57374236 i have 2 wifi ports that i know of, both turned off, and both have antenna removed
20:40 rue_shop3 maybe its a bad isp hub and them pulling bandwidth suffocates the network
20:40 any57374236 that still implies they have a wifi camera over here
20:40 rue_shop3 hu?
20:40 rue_shop3 not if you ahve the wifi off
20:41 any57374236 my bandwidth drops to 15k if i go out to the car, but it's back up to 164k now
20:41 rue_shop3 the non-wifi bandwidth?
20:41 any57374236 i am not moving the computers, or changing anything when i go out
20:41 any57374236 yep
20:41 any57374236 all my connections are hardwared copepr
20:42 any57374236 the laptop has wifi, the modem has wifi, both are shut off, and neither has an antenna
20:44 any57374236 you can economise some if only the outer fingers/thumb can move sideways
20:45 rue_shop3 the 3rd joint down the finger is 2 axis
20:45 rue_shop3 not sure how to make
20:45 rue_shop3 it
20:45 rue_shop3 its only a few degrees
20:45 any57374236 at least one finger/thumb needs to have range of motion to oppose the otehr fingers, like grabbing a hammer or cable
20:46 any57374236 make it a regular universal joint?
20:48 rue_shop3 not sure how to make a centre star that small that I can post-install
20:50 any57374236 you don't, you get a 1/4 inch flex socket drive
20:51 any57374236 or, examine one, you'll find some are simply cubes of steel, and the pins are roll pins driven thru to assemble
20:52 any57374236 you'll want to use bearings in the U flanges, because the tendons wrap so close to the center of rotation of the joints, the friction seems to get multiplied many times over
20:53 any57374236 tip: thos lil ball bearings i use ,, the races are so thin you cannot use a spring-roll-pin, but solid pins works fine
20:54 any57374236 iirc, the bearings are 8mm OD, 3mm ID, and 1mm thick
20:55 any57374236 maybe 5mm OD , you'll need a reamer, sneak up on the OD with a drill bit that is running true and not chattering, then ream the hole the last 10 thou
20:57 any57374236 some humans have made the hand with a steel ring at the end of the wrist, such that the outer fingers can rid the ring around to oppose the fixed fingers
20:57 any57374236 it's a small ring, maybe 3/8 rod in a 2" circle
21:04 rue_shop3 the socket ones around here dont have the two pins lined up
21:04 rue_shop3 makes them flop wrong
21:06 any57374236 does your software require specific placement?
21:06 rue_shop3 the operator might
21:07 any57374236 oh
21:09 any57374236 well, make your own, use a block of steel, drive in a 5mm fat pin for the side movement bearings, and then drive the 3mm finger pin right thru the fat pin
21:09 any57374236 or, pick the dimensions you want
21:23 rue_shop3 ah
21:23 rue_shop3 forgot about that method
21:25 any57374236 the block of steel holds it all securely, if you drilled and sized the pins for enough grip in the block
21:28 any57374236 if you have the room, you can economise the fingers some by putting those bearings in the "cross" block
21:29 any57374236 instead of in the yoke that's part of the finger
21:29 rue_shop3 I'd like to stick to bushings
21:29 any57374236 so instead of needing to house a 8mm OD bearing there, you put the bearing in the block, and the finger needs hold only the 3mm or 5mm or whatever pin
21:29 any57374236 o
21:30 any57374236 busings = horrible friction, just do the math
21:30 rue_shop3 been using 3/8" pins
21:30 rue_shop3 (9.5mm)
21:30 any57374236 k
21:30 rue_shop3 yea, but less peices generally means more reliable operation in harsh environments
21:31 rue_shop3 'large blocks of metal last longer' kinda approach
21:31 any57374236 i cannot make any valid guesses on how your design will perform, because i don't knowit
21:31 rue_shop3 I'm only taking this as a frist stab
21:31 rue_shop3 I expect to learn a lot
21:31 any57374236 won't matter if the required force on the tendons to move it exceed the space or budget or breaking strength
21:32 rue_shop3 I'v left a lot of room,
21:32 rue_shop3 I wonder how strong my fingers are...
21:33 rue_shop3 on my index, from the tip, I cant quite hit 7kg
21:34 any57374236 ok, if you need 2lbs pull to move the finger, that 2lbs must be carried by the finfer tendon, the wrist, the arm up tot he point the actuatir is attached, and you need to get power to it for 2lbs,, multiply everything by the number of fingers in use, and the friction from bending the wrist, etc etc etc
21:34 rue_shop3 I'm gonna say the practical limit for me is 6.3kg
21:34 any57374236 yanno, it is almost cool outside now, and it's still so hot upstairs i can't sit still there without pouring sweat
21:36 rue_shop3 that was over 90mm span
21:37 rue_shop3 0.7kg/cm
21:38 rue_shop3 so, technicaly, if the robot finger can do 1.75kg/cm I'm 'ok'
21:40 rue_shop3 tip axies are 7.5kg
21:40 rue_shop3 over
21:40 rue_shop3 37mm
21:40 rue_shop3 huh, 2kg/cm
21:41 rue_shop3 so 5kg/cm
21:42 y57374236 is unable to form mental images at this
21:43 rue_shop3 L-> | = finger, _ = hand -> = scale
21:43 rue_shop3 from tip of finger, flexing bottom joint, was about 6.3kg max
21:43 rue_shop3 I did that wrong
21:44 rue_shop3 <-L
21:44 rue_shop3 is the right diagram, I was measuring gripping force
21:44 any57374236 6.3kg = ~14lbs
21:45 rue_shop3 <-L | = last two segments, _ = base segment <- = scale was about 7.5kg
21:45 rue_shop3 this will be a laugh, the uncurling force
21:46 rue_shop3 heh, 1kg, 84mm
21:46 rue_shop3 0.11kg/cm
21:47 rue_shop3 all the uncurling is one tendon
21:47 rue_shop3 the angular balance is done with counteracting the uncurler tendon
21:48 rue_shop3 (L-> | = finger, _ = hand -> = scale)
21:48 rue_shop3 two tendons do the curling
21:49 rue_shop3 3.4kg is the max side strength, over about the same 84mm
21:50 rue_shop3 :/ I exhausted my hand
21:51 any57374236 o
21:52 e_shop3 files those numbers as max:non-repeat
21:53 any57374236 http://static.winningateverything.com/files/2013/10/WA_hifi.jpg
21:53 rue_shop3 haha
21:54 rue_shop3 think the power lines go in or out?
21:55 any57374236 dunno, but i wonder what the bass vibration does to the rest of the truck
21:55 rue_shop3 yea, I hate heating people with ratteling sie panels
21:56 rue_shop3 it took me 3 years to find someone to give the freezer on my deck, and now it dosn't work
21:57 any57374236 no one wanted it?
21:57 rue_shop3 no
21:57 rue_shop3 its a full size freezer chest
21:57 rue_shop3 well, now its just a full size chest
21:57 any57374236 well, turn it up so it's tall, and use it as a chilled and sound absorbent 19" rack space
21:57 any57374236 or not chilled
21:58 rue_shop3 it dosn't chill
21:58 rue_shop3 heh
21:58 rue_shop3 insulated tho
21:58 Tom_itx i had 2 fridges in similar condition
21:59 Tom_itx asked if someone would haul them off and they wanted $50 ea to haul
21:59 any57374236 problem with all of those is the insulation is so thin, it doesn't work to pay the power bill for one if you also haveto buy the food to put into it
21:59 Tom_itx set one in the alley and it was gone overnight
21:59 rue_shop3 if I cut it up and keep the compressor, the landfill will accept it as scrap metal
22:00 any57374236 $50? cheaper to cut it up for pproject sheet metal, and various other parts
22:00 Tom_itx still have the other one but it doesn't work
22:01 rue_shop3 ok, sideways finger operation almost comes to a stop when the fingers are at 90 degrees
22:02 rue_shop3 which indicates that the pivot points of my ref design may not be in the same place anyhow
22:04 rue_shop3 well, if the pulley on the fingers is about...
22:04 rue_shop3 20mm
22:04 rue_shop3 ..
22:05 rue_shop3 its only 10kg on the tendon...
22:05 rue_shop3 I might be able to do that with one little muscle
22:15 rue_shop3 yup, I get 10kg at 30psi
22:15 rue_shop3 on a muscle with a dia of...
22:15 rue_shop3 12mm
22:17 rue_shop3 207kpa
22:18 rue_shop3 ok, try...
22:19 rue_shop3 30psi
22:19 rue_shop3 0.175"^2
22:19 rue_shop3 should be 5.25lbs...
22:19 rue_shop3 22lbs
22:19 rue_shop3 air muscles are cool that way
22:20 rue_shop3 I get 4x the force of the same sized cylinder
22:21 any57374236 what's their lifetime?
22:21 rue_shop3 not sure yet
22:58 any57374236 more sound system ==>> http://static.winningateverything.com/files/2013/09/WA_soundSystem.jpg
23:35 any57374236 http://static.winningateverything.com/files/2013/08/WA_surfingWeb.jpg
23:55 rue_shop3 ok so I gave in and accepted that there might be advantages to staggering the two joints
23:55 rue_shop3 and thus have made something today
23:55 rue_shop3 I'v also concluded that aviation goggles might be more comfortable than welding goggles
23:55 rue_shop3 (I'm using as safety goggles)
23:56 rue_shop3 oh, aviation goggles typically have a better field of view
23:59 rue_shop3 tho it looks like they aren't set up to breathe right
23:59 any57374236 cept they don't dim the UV as much as welding mask