#garfield Logs

Mar 22 2015

00:09 rue_shop3 just dosn't seem verry federation
00:09 katsmeow-afk course not, they were so clean you could eat off those floors and walls !
00:09 rue_shop3 less the occasional problem with tribbles
00:09 rue_shop3 trouble?
00:10 katsmeow-afk they wouldn't let tribbles in the garbagechutes after they stopped up the Romulan ones
00:11 rue_shop3 good thing theyonly like grain
00:12 katsmeow-afk triticale is an actual grain, btw
00:12 rue_shop3 that *do* you do with thousands of poisoned tribbles?
00:12 katsmeow-afk feed them to those furry criters in the other movie that turn into monsters when they get wet
00:13 katsmeow-afk Gremlins
00:17 tsmeow-afk remembers when they had to call the slaves Thralls (it *does* mean slave), because Uhuru was black and Kirk kissed her, and Mannix was nearly canceled because he kissed Peggy (his secretray who was also bl
00:18 katsmeow-afk Gail was the second black actress cast as a regular character in an hour-long drama series -- Nichelle Nichols of "Star Trek" preceeded her by two years -- and was one of the most visible black faces on TV in the late 1960s-early 1970s.
00:33 katsmeow-afk that such a huge deficency with humans, they cannot share those experiences thru the ages
00:47 tsmeow-afk wanders
01:05 rue_shop3 well, an idea occured to me
01:05 rue_shop3 so I made a current mirror with two pn2222
01:05 rue_shop3 ... this seems quite plausable
01:13 rue_shop3 ok I ahve linearity within 60% of the 0-5V input range
01:42 katsmeow-afk ok
01:44 rue_house its best if it *does* saturate, which gives me the whole 0-30V range
01:44 rue_house but just a bit
01:44 katsmeow-afk no, best if it does NOT
01:44 rue_house losing 40% of the input range is a bit much, but gives the error amps lots of room to keep things under control
01:44 katsmeow-afk it takes time to get adevice unsaturated
01:44 rue_house its not an audio amp tho
01:44 rue_house ah
01:45 rue_house this is a power supply tho, slow moving
01:45 katsmeow-afk if it is saturated, and you short the output, yo cansmoke the transistor because it's too slow to turn off
01:45 rue_house I dont think I can hurt those to-3
01:45 katsmeow-afk ok
01:45 rue_house besides, the drive current...
01:46 rue_house 36V -> 10k *300 * 100
01:46 rue_house zippo:/files/programming/c/resistor# ohm -v 36 -r 10000
01:46 rue_house Wattage is: 0.129600
01:46 rue_house Current is: 0.003600
01:46 rue_house Voltage is: 36.000000
01:46 rue_house Resistance is : 10000.000000
01:46 rue_house 3.6mA ..
01:46 katsmeow-afk why can't you use the circuit i sketched for you? it uses that video driver chip as it's output
01:47 rue_house I could , but the current mirror is just simpler...
01:47 katsmeow-afk 3.6ma isn't the problem, it's electrons getting isolated in the base region
01:47 rue_house oh, I guess I have enough drive current for 108A
01:47 rue_house huh
01:47 katsmeow-afk opamps have currentmirros inthem and opamps are only 5 pins
01:48 rue_house but the pn2222 are 60V
01:48 katsmeow-afk i showed you do not need hv opamps or hv anything inthe error feedback path
01:48 rue_house indeed
01:49 tsmeow-afk shrugs and guesses you are just hell-bent on learning s
01:49 rue_house I'm quite appreciating your help
01:50 tsmeow-afk
01:50 rue_house the video amp got part of my mind thinking that the circuit dosn't need to be calibrated
01:50 katsmeow-afk correct
01:51 rue_house I'm just going for low gain to push out noise source points
01:51 katsmeow-afk umm, high gain alsomeans it *can* compare the setpoint to the noise and remove the noise
01:51 rue_house I'd prefer the gain at the error amp
01:52 rue_house most of my high gain circuits oscillate
01:52 katsmeow-afk oh
01:52 rue_house funny for a guy who can hardly make a heartley work if his life depends on it
01:52 katsmeow-afk told ya the npn stage sitting on gnd may need a cap, the rest of the ciruit should be fine
01:53 rue_house posting images... pls stand by...
01:53 tsmeow-afk has made amplifiers with 800v rails work
01:54 rue_house ooof, tubes?
01:54 katsmeow-afk i used it to ignite 4inch flourescent tubes, no warmup
01:54 rue_house ooof
01:54 rue_house constant current source?
01:54 katsmeow-afk nope, transistors, set up 4inch cold cathode flouresscents as 7-seg displays, controleld by a C64
01:55 rue_house :) sweet
01:55 katsmeow-afk had a transistor current regulator floating inside the 800v line
01:55 rue_house when was that?
01:55 katsmeow-afk ~1983
01:55 katsmeow-afk 84, maybe
01:55 rue_house cool
01:55 katsmeow-afk might have been the Vic too
01:56 rue_house http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/newpower/p1070139.jpg
01:56 rue_house its the circuit on the far right in blue, should I expand?
01:56 katsmeow-afk Motorola made fome real fast kv npn switching transistors
01:56 rue_house I forgot my uploading script scales it
01:57 katsmeow-afk i dunno why you have the left-most transistor, with it's base-colector short
01:58 rue_house ... current mirror?
01:58 katsmeow-afk you are directly pulling the other transistor's base too tho
01:59 rue_house http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/Simple_bipolar_mirror.svg/200px-Simple_bipolar_mirror.svg.png
01:59 rue_house I didn't invent the math
01:59 rue_house apparently I did my bottom resistor wrong tho
02:00 rue_house http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/Simple_current_mirror_1000.jpg/300px-Simple_current_mirror_1000.jpg
02:01 rue_house that current mirror is wrong by a bit, but its not critical
02:02 katsmeow-afk when i think "current mirror", i think inverting long-tailed pair
02:03 katsmeow-afk the left-most transistor is just reducing the gain of the input signal to the base of the other transistor
02:03 katsmeow-afk current mirror works by shifting which transistor gets the fixed current thruthe base resistor (or current source)
02:04 katsmeow-afk your design doesn't do that
02:04 katsmeow-afk i eanemitter resistor
02:04 rue_house http://i.cmpnet.com/audiodesignline/2010/discrete_audio_amplifier_basics_fig9.25.jpg
02:04 rue_house but thats how they told me to do it
02:04 rue_house kinda
02:05 rue_house http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/newpower/p1070140.jpg <-- makeing progress on this design tho :)
02:06 katsmeow-afk when you pul your Vin up, what does Vo do?
02:06 rue_house goes down
02:06 rue_house thats ok
02:07 rue_house inversion dosn't matter, I just flip the inputs of the error amps
02:08 tsmeow-afk bog
02:08 rue_house I'm on it!
02:08 rue_house I'm gonna set it up to regulate now
02:08 rue_house see what I get
02:09 rue_house I have 8 pages of amplifier schematics here
02:09 katsmeow-afk i need to go to bed, see if i cansleep
02:09 rue_house this has been an interseting problem
02:09 rue_house good luck/night
02:10 katsmeow-afk i ate pills, i shoudl sleep
02:10 katsmeow-afk enough time to put the pizaa away, or to tinkle,, not sure which to do...................
02:11 katsmeow-afk gnite
03:53 rue_shop3 good thing I was carefull about noise, its oscillating at 14Khz
04:21 rue_house I notice their votlage error amp is just a comparitor, I changed it to something with a reasonable gain, (22)
14:41 any10130029 it's sunday
14:41 any10130029 i have been awake on this day before, many times
14:45 any10130029 rue , fwiw, using a comparator led to making the linear psu become a switcher
14:52 any10130029 i made a cheap AB audio amp that used no dc bias on the outputs, but i put in capacitors, the opamp driving the transitors would oscillate with no signal in, because it wanted 0v, but the basesneeded to be at +0.65 and -0.65, the opamp oscillating produced exactly enough amplitude to keep the caps charged to exactly enough to keep the transistors barely turned on, no matter the transtsor temperatures
14:53 any10130029 since the oscillation was at a Mhz or so, you couldn't hear it, it was silent
14:55 katsmeow since the opamp was concerned with keeing the bases barely on, to reduce crossover distortion, as the transistors heats and base drive needed to be reduced, the opamp oscillating inherently compensated, with no temperature sensing
15:05 rue_shop3 I'm surprised its got the loop gain to oscillate
15:05 rue_shop3 even at an error gain of 22 I'm getting blips
15:05 rue_shop3 I suppose...
15:06 rue_shop3 error gain at 22, driver gain of 20, and feedback of 1/8
15:06 rue_shop3 loop gain of 55
15:06 rue_shop3 hmmmm
15:06 katsmeow RC is the best way to stop oscillaltions
15:06 rue_shop3 I was thinking of that
15:07 rue_shop3 I had to put a follower before the driver input
15:07 rue_shop3 that could jsut as well be an active filter
15:10 katsmeow remember, oscillations are cause by feedback that's wrong phase, or delay in the signal thru the loop, delay is caused by slow components
15:10 katsmeow if you look in almost all audio amps, there's capacitors
15:48 katsmeow the Emma Maersk propeller weighs almost 130 tons
15:56 katsmeow turns at 84 rpm
15:56 katsmeow it's direct drive off the 84 rpm diesel
15:58 katsmeow the diesel that turns the prop does nothing else, it's oil and electrical and water cooling are powered by other engines
16:07 katsmeow 12 cyl diesel engine, 6 cyl are on the upstroke and actually consuming power, 2 cyl are at top and making no power, 2 are at bottom and making no power, leaving 2 which are making all the power
16:08 katsmeow it's worse if it's a 4-stroke, because those make power only every other stroke, so in the 12 cyl, only one is actively making useful power
16:11 tsmeow rec
16:12 tsmeow recalcs a
16:14 katsmeow 6 are on the upstroke, OF THE TWO at top, one is on the downside but making very little torque, OF THE TWO at bottom, one is on the downstroke but making no torque, leaving *4* to make torque at any one time
16:31 katsmeow on a 3" piston, 7 sq inches, 200 psi = 1400 lbs push, but on 3inch stroke, 1.5inch crank throw is only 175 ft lbs (minus friction etc)
16:35 katsmeow the human brain has not significantly been updated in 15,000 years, but a civilised society has evolved only the last 100 years (the engine, flush toilets, mechanised farms, benign goverments, etc)
16:36 katsmeow ergo, our operating system of today is run on 15,000 yr old hardware
16:41 katsmeow possibly, the only solution to that disaster is to make modern hardware run our OS, and it's the OS itself that tolerates and allows for the continued existance of the 15,000 old hardware
16:43 katsmeow sadly, the need for so many laws, and so many news reports, indicates the old hardware will continue to reject the modern OS, and a hardware base that accepts the new OS will reject the old hardware because it's so self-breaking
16:58 katsmeow i think the new hardware will use the same OS as the old hardware, and use the same OS procedures that substanciate bigotry (between humans) to generate a bias (against all humans)
17:04 katsmeow imagine you are the smartest human ever, and getting told you will be another being's pet, at best, and allowed to visit other humans in thepark if you are a good pet
17:40 katsmeow one ponders the need for a short-stroke car engine turning 3000 rpm if a 70rpm engine can make 100,000hp and move a million tons of ship and cargo
17:44 tsmeow ponders a smaller engine that can turn lots of torque at only 600rpm, used to keep the car moving at highway speeds, direct driving a set of t
17:46 katsmeow some EV conversions direct drive the wheels with merely a 2:1 ratio on the chain or cogbelt linkage
17:54 tsmeow ponders a way to chew up hay so none of it is longer an an
20:24 katsmeow I will show you how to interactively your code from the console
20:24 katsmeow huh?
21:11 rue_house sphagnum ?
21:11 rue_house oh, moss
21:12 rue_house ok
21:12 rue_house wow
21:12 rue_house what a day
21:12 rue_house washed down the tiller
21:12 rue_house opened up the gearbox to see if there was oil in it as I was sure it was sounding rough
21:12 rue_house grey and white shiney milk
21:13 rue_house so, being its the gearbox for a rotortiller, I dumped in (as there is no drain) lots of grease and 80 wt gear oil
21:14 rue_house you have to take the tines off one side to get to the oil port, taking them off wasn't easy, the gear puller did a nice job
21:15 rue_house I welded the bucket back togethor on the power wheelbarrow, giving it a run after I find its developed a new problem, the dump switch has enough water in it to randomly trigger the bucket actuator relays
21:16 rue_house so I was fighting it continiously wanting to go up and down while using it
21:18 rue_house I wonder what happens when 40000 acres of moss bugs are transplanted into urban areas
21:19 rue_house I wonder what forrest birds eat in a 40000 acre area that suddenly has no moss bugs to snack on
21:19 rue_house ... and snakes
21:20 rue_house that moss will all be growing on rocks along streams, I wonder if that effects the water
21:21 rue_house I wonder what 22nf is in uf
21:32 Tom_itx .022
22:08 katsmeow no drain? flip it upside down, that's what the gantry is for, hold it upside down over a drain tub
22:09 katsmeow water conductivity is a currrent problem, just pass less voltage and require it to pass more current, the water will fail
22:10 katsmeow milli, micro, nano, pico
22:11 katsmeow i once measured the one window, and tried to write it down on the window, but the window wasn't wide enough to write down how wide the window was in angstroms
22:12 tsmeow is calling it a nite for outside demohamme
23:07 katsmeow it's going to be irritating if, after lowering and leveling the floor, i still haveto raise the roof before i can turn the boat over