#garfield Logs

Mar 21 2015

00:04 katsmeow-afk but the quadropedal mode is really unsettling: AMEE�s motions are modeled after those of large, predatory cats, and the sense of cat-and-mouse in the plot is really punched home with that detail. It is also worth pointing out that some of the most recent robotics developments at Boston Dynamics bear some resemblances to AMEE�s quadropedal mode,
00:04 rue_shop3 now just imagine being a robot in a post-epocolypse, scrounging a landfill looking for PNP power transistors
00:05 tsmeow-afk allocates a cpu channel to imagining
00:06 katsmeow-afk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTcOOzD-JQs
00:06 katsmeow-afk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZKITq_2ORw
00:10 rue_shop3 it looks like a few CRT's used pnp transistors for the flybacks, gain of about 8
00:11 rue_shop3 I'll have to hold off on the youtube links, youtube upgraded the req's to the point only one of my machines can play videos anymore
00:11 rue_shop3 oooh, maybe these are out of audio amps
00:11 katsmeow-afk i dl them and play them with vlc, my bandwidthis such i cannotplay them smoothly live anyhow
00:11 e_shop3 sets his eyes on the scrap audio amp in the corner of the
00:12 rue_shop3 ooo its got big toshiba transistors
00:12 tsmeow-afk watches AMEE unfold from her carrying
00:20 katsmeow-afk .. Midnight, start of Saturday 3/21/2015 ..
00:25 rue_shop3 tip42
00:25 rue_shop3 ...
00:26 katsmeow-afk what about it?
00:26 rue_shop3 atleast 40V
00:26 rue_shop3 ...
00:27 rue_shop3 6A
00:27 rue_shop3 ...
00:27 rue_shop3 65W
00:27 katsmeow-afk 65w from a to-220 will be damned hot
00:27 rue_shop3 hfe of atleast 15
00:28 katsmeow-afk tip42C is 100v
00:28 rue_shop3 VCEsat of 1.5V
00:28 rue_shop3 ugh
00:28 rue_shop3 lets run some numbers
00:28 katsmeow-afk actually, you can get it down under a volt, according to the curves
00:29 rue_shop3 root@blackie2:/tmp# ohm -v 1.5 -i 5
00:29 rue_shop3 Wattage is: 7.500000
00:29 rue_shop3 Current is: 5.000000
00:29 rue_shop3 Voltage is: 1.500000
00:29 rue_shop3 Resistance is : 0.300000
00:29 katsmeow-afk at 250ma base drive, the Vce is one volt, at 1amp base drive the Vce is 250mv
00:29 rue_shop3 so, rdson of 300mR ...
00:29 rue_shop3 for an equiv fet
00:29 katsmeow-afk at 250ma base drive, the Vce is one volt, at 1amp base drive the Vce is 250mv
00:30 katsmeow-afk that one amp is why you wanna be able to dump it into the load
00:30 rue_shop3 but what if I want the load to get less than 1A via current limiting
00:31 katsmeow-afk use a tip36, for 200ma base drive it will pull 6amps down to a Vce of 300mv
00:31 rue_shop3 but I dont have any
00:32 katsmeow-afk tip36 has 2x the heatsink backside too, being a to-3P or sot-93 or to-265
00:32 rue_shop3 why am I not using the fets again?
00:45 any38567178 damned isp
00:45 any38567178 [00:13] <katsmeow-afk> with fets, you need to swing a lot of volts with little current, with bipolars you swing under a volt with lots of current
00:45 any38567178 [00:13] <katsmeow-afk> there's no tip in a to-3 cept the tip-3055/2955 in their 2N clothes
00:45 any38567178 [00:14] <katsmeow-afk> my hind legs are so sore, and my front paws too
00:45 any38567178 [00:14] *** Disconnected
00:45 any38567178 right one took a beating from using that demo hammer so much
00:48 any38567178 ...
00:54 any38567178 Definition of a droid
00:54 any38567178 "A mechanical and/or electronic construct designed and put into service to assist organic life."
00:54 any38567178 ?Cybot Galactica Design Team Operations Manual[src]
01:47 rue_shop3 ok, it looks like its achivable to use PNP TO-3 transistors that have an hfe of atleast 100
01:47 any38567178 yeas
01:48 rue_shop3 the transistors I'v picked are marked "ES13" and "2n5884"
01:48 any38567178 if you used a low-gain pnp, you may find yourself sucking an amp down off the Vcc to gnd during a short
01:48 rue_shop3 I ahve a pair of each
01:48 y38567178 lets youread the data sheets on
01:48 rue_shop3 so, 5A out would be
01:49 rue_shop3 I used my component tester :)
01:49 rue_shop3 50mA drive current
01:49 rue_shop3 so I can sziki it with a pn2222...
01:49 rue_shop3 I think
01:49 any38567178 also, check out how a npn current source is wired up, configure your npn driver/sense to not allow more than the pnp needs on it's base
01:50 any38567178 not sure a 2n2222 is good for 50v
01:50 rue_shop3 its 60 I think
01:50 rue_shop3 but Its only a 32V rail on the supply
01:51 any38567178 it's easy: pick a R that drops 0.7v at the max Ibase of the pnp, the bottom of the R goes to gnd (or Vss), then two .7v diodes in series from the bottom of that R to the npn base
01:53 any38567178 if the npn tries to suck more current down from the pnp base, the R drops more V, the npn-E rises, but the npn-B is clampedto 1.4v, so the npn cannot pull more I than causes the R to drop more than diode drop
01:54 any38567178 saves overcurrenting the pnp-base or the npn trying to dissipate more wattage, it's super cheap insurance
01:55 any38567178 50ma drive at 32v is too much for the 2n2222
01:55 any38567178 either use a darlington pnp, or a npn in a to-220 on a heatsink
01:57 any38567178 or, a pnp from the original pnp-base to it's collector, which does two things: adds the worse case base drive back into the load current, and gives you more current gain at the pnp
02:05 rue_shop3 ooo kat kat kat kat
02:05 rue_shop3 kat kat kat kat
02:05 rue_shop3 I just
02:05 rue_shop3 oh SWEEEET
02:05 rue_shop3 I just pulled a chip off a crt board
02:05 rue_shop3 its a 74S124
02:05 rue_shop3 !!!!
02:05 rue_shop3 60Mhz voltage controlled osc!
02:06 rue_shop3 I can make a freq gen that'd be AWESOME
02:06 rue_shop3 its a dual!
02:10 rue_shop3 HP3311A schematic
02:16 tsmeow-afk looks jea
02:26 katsmeow-afk mc1648 225 Mhz vco
02:28 katsmeow-afk mc12148 1100 Mhz vco
02:31 rue_house hmm
02:31 rue_house are they in vcr's?
02:31 katsmeow-afk i dunno
02:32 katsmeow-afk the 1648 is ancient too
02:32 rue_house my freq gen goes up to 1Mhz
02:32 rue_house but its tripple function out...
02:33 tsmeow-afk has two FG502 and a PG somethingi forget
02:34 katsmeow-afk hi Tom, i go lay down
03:46 rue_shop3 I thought I was so close
03:46 rue_shop3 the signal seems to have to be - biased
03:46 rue_shop3 and I'm getting a gain of 45
03:47 rue_shop3 I want about 6 or 8
04:14 rue_house kat, still awake?
04:14 rue_house is gm = rc/re?
04:14 rue_house lost my book
04:21 rue_house ok
04:21 rue_house rc/re = 8
04:21 rue_house rc = 3000
05:33 rue_house ok I think if I have a -5V supply, I can make this amp work
05:33 rue_house waaaait a min
05:34 rue_house if the base current it just .04mA, why dont I use a high voltage op-amp?
05:38 rue_house most of the lm741 are good for 44V
05:50 rue_house lm741, + input on +5V, Ri = 1k Rf = 7.2k
05:50 rue_house done
05:50 rue_house V+ = 35V, V- = -5V
05:51 rue_house output swing o-30V
05:51 rue_house (easy)
05:52 rue_house oh god, since when is it -3:30am!?
05:52 rue_house nowonder the tea nolonger has any effect
06:00 rue_bed ok,so
06:00 rue_bed I can use the low voltage op-amps for all the voltage and current limiting
06:02 rue_bed then use an lm741 to boost the control signal to the tziki drivers
06:02 rue_bed all the refs come from the serial DACs
06:02 rue_bed regulation is done by analog
06:03 rue_bed and for now, the buck stage is linear
06:03 rue_bed two TO-3 transistors
06:04 rue_bed I'll test more tommorow
09:16 katsmeow-afk rue, i are looking at the 741 datasheet right now, it's max *input* with 44v power (or +/- 22v Vdd/Vss) is still only 30v (+/- 15v)
09:16 katsmeow-afk so it won't blow up with 44volts on it's pwr pins, but will blow up with 44v on it's input pins
09:17 katsmeow-afk and with 40v on it, it will swing only 32v output into 10k
09:18 katsmeow-afk ( +/- 16v) or 1.6 ma
09:30 katsmeow-afk http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313&_nkw=OPA454&_sacat=12576
09:33 katsmeow-afk http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=OPA454&_from=R40&_osacat=12576&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.X%22high+voltage%22+opamp.TRS0&_nkw=%22high+voltage%22+opamp&ghostText=&_sacat=12576
09:36 katsmeow-afk but basically, mostly you will find that in the high voltage opamps, there's a low voltage input section (diff pair and current sources), a current gain section (1 or 2 transistors), and a npn sitting on Vss with a pullup to Vcc (which provides 100% of the high voltage gain) .... and you can do that externally to any opamp you like
09:37 katsmeow-afk but the higher voltage audio modules still strike my fancy for audio bandwidths tween +/- 40v and +/- 100v , they solve a lot of the overload situations
09:41 katsmeow-afk the TDA7294 is 80v and $2.83
09:41 katsmeow-afk the OPA552 is 60v and $6
09:42 katsmeow-afk the TDA will deliver *power*, the opamp won't, you need to add transistor current gain to the opamp
09:44 katsmeow-afk the lil TDA2050 is MAXed at +/- 22v, 5amps, is self protected, and is $2.40
09:45 katsmeow-afk for slow, or psu design, it doesn't pay to buy a pricey opamp when a cheap module will do it
09:54 katsmeow-afk LM3885 is +/- 35v , 4amps
09:54 katsmeow-afk $4
10:13 katsmeow-afk "The TDA7293 is a monolithic MOS power amplifier which can be operated at 100Vsupply voltage (120V with no signal applied) while delivering output currentsup to �6.5 A." $4 on ebay
10:15 katsmeow-afk $2 each if you look around
10:15 katsmeow-afk http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-AUDIO-AMPLIFIER-IC-ST-ZIP-15-TDA7293-TDA7293V-/260964877755
11:24 rue_house oh
11:24 rue_house wait, low voltage input is ok, or is it
11:24 rue_house yea
11:25 rue_house the input range is 0-5V
11:25 rue_house but the output swing thing I need to look at
11:26 rue_house I assumed from the numbers that the output votlage swing is 2-3V off the power rails
11:27 rue_house the cat took over my chair, and is fighting to keep it
11:28 katsmeow-afk is the cat fighting you? or are you fighting the cat to take it for yourself?
11:28 rue_house lm139-339 is 36V....
11:28 rue_house I got clawed, he wins.
11:29 rue_house lm386 is 18V
11:29 katsmeow-afk two words, "garden hose"
11:29 rue_house lm358 was too low
11:29 rue_house how about TL and OP...
11:29 rue_house er, do I have any of the op...
11:29 katsmeow-afk no hv TL, and hv OP are pricey
11:30 rue_house TL-071 is 36V
11:30 katsmeow-afk not hv in my book
11:31 rue_house oh wait, I wanted 40 didn't I?
11:31 rue_house arg
11:31 katsmeow-afk mc340xx are 44v
11:33 e_house th
11:33 rue_house I might have one
11:33 rue_house 34063...?
11:34 rue_house hahah its not an op-amp tho
11:34 tsmeow-afk grabbed 1000 mc34072 and 250 mc34074 back when such things were a few $ per
11:35 rue_house its not in my local datasheet cache, so that not a good sign
11:36 katsmeow-afk afk, maybe to get food
11:36 rue_house lm301?
11:36 rue_house 36V
11:37 rue_house I'll have to find something exotic
11:37 katsmeow-afk you are at the top of the conventional box, you going to smother or think outside the box?
11:37 rue_house I'm trying to avoid sensitive gain points in the design to remove noise points
11:37 katsmeow-afk [09:53] <katsmeow-afk> "The TDA7293 is a monolithic MOS power amplifier which can be operated at 100Vsupply voltage (120V with no signal applied) while delivering output currentsup to �6.5 A." $4 on ebay
11:37 katsmeow-afk [09:54] <katsmeow-afk> $2 each if you look around
11:38 rue_house oooh, I bet I cant find one in a CRT vidoe amp!
11:38 rue_house the cathode amp
11:38 katsmeow-afk true
11:38 katsmeow-afk bbl
11:38 rue_house lots of crt boards
11:39 rue_house shame, its a 160V amp I'm sure
11:39 rue_house :) it'd have good bandwidth
11:44 rue_shop3 aha!
11:44 rue_shop3 LM2419
12:05 rue_house gain of 15
12:05 rue_house V+ 85V
12:05 rue_house oh, output offset votlage of 50V
12:07 rue_house output swing 60V
12:08 rue_house they dont have the right numbers in here for me
13:51 katsmeow-afk LM2419 isn't an opamp, it's a lot like the last two stages in most opamps tho
13:53 katsmeow-afk swap the 2 inputs around, turn on the bottom transistr and leave it on, and the offset nearly goes away
13:53 katsmeow-afk or drive both transistors as one input, and offset goes away
13:54 katsmeow-afk i crashed FF aFF'inggain
14:05 tsmeow-afk ponders how to turn a ERA-2SM 6Ghz opamp into a 1Ghz sampling
17:31 katsmeow-afk www.livescience.com/50203-terminator-genisys-real-artificial-intelligence.html
19:58 Tom_itx any way to get DOS 6.22 to write to a USB thumb drive?
20:36 katsmeow-afk use a small thumb drive so it is formatted fat12 or fat16
20:53 rue_house Tom_itx, put windows95 drivers on it and load them in config.sys
20:54 rue_house might work
20:54 katsmeow-afk umm, yeas, you need drivers
20:55 rue_house the dll files, iirc
20:55 rue_house I really cant offer anymore direction than that
20:55 katsmeow-afk unless your mobo bios translates thumb drives to be floppies/hdds transparent todos
20:55 katsmeow-afk there's some interesting pigtail convertors on ebay
20:56 rue_house tommorow I'll take the lawnmower apart and see if the crankshaft is broken or if the connector rods come loose
20:56 rue_house I'm just about not falling asleep
20:56 rue_house I want to search for a HV op-amp a bit more
20:56 rue_house tho I think the 2419 is viabel
20:57 katsmeow-afk remove the aprk plug, put the piston at thetop, then see how far you canslowly turnthe crank before you get a "thunk" or the piston moves
20:57 katsmeow-afk but it's not an opamp
20:57 rue_house I'd like to open it up
20:57 rue_house its got a gain of 15, so that works
20:57 rue_house if I can get it to go 0-37V out, I'm happy
20:58 rue_house with 0-5 in
20:58 katsmeow-afk opening old engines canlead to stripped threads and broken studs,, aka trash
20:58 rue_house I got it from the trash pile
20:58 katsmeow-afk k
20:58 rue_house they hit rocks so badly they sheered the flywheel key
20:58 rue_house AND slipped the blade holder on the engine shaft
20:59 rue_house it ran for a bit and then started knocking badly
20:59 rue_house but it was running nice
20:59 rue_house I hope the crank isn't broken
20:59 katsmeow-afk i got a *running* small v8 to convert to steam before the neighbors with gods moved in, 15+ yrs ago, i figure it's a 100% waste of time to do anything with it now but take it to scrap
20:59 rue_house what pressure?
21:00 katsmeow-afk 50 to 200
21:00 rue_house mmmm
21:00 katsmeow-afk dual
21:00 katsmeow-afk push 1 piston at 200, exhaust to tank (i got tank), use that lower pressure to push 2 pistons
21:01 rue_house you said OP op-amps will prolly be 44v?
21:01 katsmeow-afk maybe use a 3rd stage made of some 10inch heavy wall structrual tubing (i got 3 6ft pieces and some shorter)
21:01 rue_house trying to mkeep myself awake
21:02 rue_house oh I came up with a elbow/knee joint for the mecha
21:02 katsmeow-afk 36 to 40, 44 being MAX of SOME opamps, over that they get real pricey
21:03 katsmeow-afk whichis why i pointed to make-it-yourself and power amps like the TDA7294 (makes amps at 100v)
21:03 katsmeow-afk the tda will be cheaper than a 60v opamp
21:04 katsmeow-afk the 2419 is the hv output of a hv opamp, mostly, with no protections,,, you canmake a cheaper slower but stronger version with TIP4x transistors
21:05 katsmeow-afk use tip35/6 as the two outputs
21:05 katsmeow-afk tipxxC versions, of course
21:06 katsmeow-afk it got sooooooooooo stinky gaggy outside this afternoon, from trash fires
21:06 katsmeow-afk i saw several on the way home from groceries, people just have a compulsion to lite them and keep them smouldering 24-7
21:07 katsmeow-afk it's like gods scnet-marking, it says "i'm here somewhere, and mightbe watching you", but the toxic stench goes for miles
21:45 katsmeow-afk people with siblings were on the news yesterday, do you think it's ok if they live together, you know, since they have siblings?
21:46 rue_shop3 BA6304?
21:47 katsmeow-afk i dunno it
21:49 katsmeow-afk doesn't seem cheap
21:49 rue_shop3 nobody does....
21:50 katsmeow-afk should i draw you a picture?
21:54 rue_shop3 LM318
21:54 rue_shop3 ?
21:54 rue_shop3 aha 40V
21:55 rue_shop3 go figure, its another video circuit
21:55 rue_shop3 I have 6 of them
21:57 katsmeow-afk DesignerThinking.com/images/rue.png
21:58 katsmeow-afk + = any low voltage (18v, 25v, whatever) , +++ = 90v (or 80v or 70v or 50v, whatever) , use npn darlington at bottom , use tip35/36 pair or tip14x pair at top
21:59 katsmeow-afk use a current source is possible instead of resistor pullup at top
21:59 katsmeow-afk pick resistors each side of the pot so the opamp stays in it's active-out range without clipping
22:00 katsmeow-afk pick the resistrs to the opamp (-) so it's scaled to whatever your +++ is
22:01 katsmeow-afk that should give you 6amps out at 32v (or whatever) , add protection circuits as needed
22:01 katsmeow-afk don't use the pulldown of the top pair if you don't wanna
22:02 katsmeow-afk i suggest a super chilled glass of Bailey's Irish Creme when you power it up and it works perfectly
22:03 katsmeow-afk if you don't use the pulldown of the top pair, then don't use that diode up there either
22:03 katsmeow-afk if the bottomnpn at the opamp out is a darlington, then use 3 diodes, not two
22:04 katsmeow-afk use a R tween the opamps and the (base and diode junction) if the opamp is figgity
22:04 katsmeow-afk if it's too fast, then use a C tween the (base and diode junction) and gnd/-
22:15 rue_shop3 http://DesignerThinking.com/images/rue.png
22:16 katsmeow-afk yeas?
22:16 rue_shop3 yup, I see
22:16 rue_shop3 heh, I'm having fun stripping down boards
22:17 rue_shop3 lots of boards here that have only a few parts I'm still interested in
22:17 rue_shop3 oh I have to order 330 ohm resisotrs, seems I'm out (!??!!)
22:23 katsmeow-afk 10 Steps to Procrasti
22:39 katsmeow-afk found that transistor ==>> http://designerthinking.com/images/145862_1125891244_medium.jpg
22:55 rue_shop3 ooh! the one int he dirt!
22:55 rue_shop3 remember what I said about being a robot having to scrounge for your own repair parts?
22:56 rue_shop3 TA75902
22:57 rue_shop3 36V
22:57 rue_shop3 I'm just having fun seeing what opamps I can find now
22:58 katsmeow-afk 36 is common
22:59 rue_shop3 I'd like to point out that, for that robot, THAT is a REALLY old transistor
22:59 rue_shop3 :)
22:59 rue_shop3 my GE3 still works, its PNP
23:00 katsmeow-afk i remember reading about the CK722 in jr high school
23:00 katsmeow-afk don't remember what i had for breakfast tho
23:02 katsmeow-afk iirc, back then the 12AX7A was $3.xx, and the CK722 was $13.xx, no one with brains would use the CK722 if there was a wall outlet handy
23:03 katsmeow-afk if the carradio had a 12AX7 in it, who needed transistors?
23:05 katsmeow-afk i remember trying to make a amp with a big TO-3 with a 3pinbase, the pins arranged arounda #10 bolt inthe center of the TO3 can
23:05 katsmeow-afk made a fine emitter follower, lots of currentgain, but igot no voltage gain at all, unknownwhy
23:13 rue_shop3 I'm getting some good stuff
23:13 rue_shop3 but I was finishing the corner of tha vcr board when I realized I had just taken apart fo the 3 phse motor controller
23:14 rue_shop3 TA31095?
23:22 rue_shop3 CA3146?
23:25 katsmeow-afk CA3146 is ancient
23:25 katsmeow-afk transistor array, i think
23:26 katsmeow-afk yeas
23:26 rue_shop3 ooo 74393!
23:27 katsmeow-afk CA3146 <<== "high voltage" means 40v
23:29 rue_shop3 its on the amp board for an apple IIe floppy drive dated 1978
23:30 katsmeow-afk prolly the head preamp
23:30 rue_shop3 oh I wonder
23:30 e_shop3 goes and gets a drawr labaled "transistor arr
23:31 rue_shop3 ULN2081
23:31 rue_shop3 XTR2204
23:31 rue_shop3 er XR2204
23:31 rue_shop3 and CA3046
23:32 katsmeow-afk i just wanna flip stuff around on the star trek movie, have women wear practical proper uniforms, and the men wear miniskirts and go-go boots, Kirk must have waist-length hair and colorful face paint, Spock must have bows in his hair and pastel belts
23:35 katsmeow-afk every room in the ship must have at least one Data, which periodically stops and shoots out a gyser of smoke, and is teleported away, and a new one teleports in, and no one ever notices
23:37 katsmeow-afk every time Kirk plans to lead a away team to take over a ship or planet, one of the women asks why they don't send a boarding party of Datas
23:48 rue_house :)
23:55 katsmeow-afk dija ever compare the garbage chutes on Star Trek to those in Star Wars?