#garfield Logs

Jan 25 2015

00:00 rue_shop2 but I'm trying to fix the temp sampling, right now its one sample/second with a 4 sample buffer that averages
00:00 katsmeow AARRG<, the high pitches of the organ are just as ear splitting now as when i was a teen
00:12 katsmeow btw, Sumatra pdf reader will also show ebook formats
00:31 katsmeow ...
11:12 Tom_L SR2612F-0112-21R0B-D8-N
11:12 Tom_L those are for your pendant when you get your MPG to select the axis and resolution
11:15 Tom_L EC11B15202AA
11:15 Tom_L 15ppr encoder for the lcd menus
11:17 Tom_L iirc mine has a pushbutton switch though
11:53 katsmeow-afk mmmmmmmooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeemmmmmmmmm
13:26 rue_bed Tom_itx, I'm having a horrid time getting past the noise of the encoder pushbutton I have on the oven
13:26 rue_bed last night I was testing the temp reading accuracy
13:26 Tom_itx i just use a button
13:27 Tom_itx did you heat it up until the PT100 glowed red?
13:27 rue_bed at 200c the error suddenly went way up
13:27 rue_bed just to 260
13:27 Tom_itx it's not a kiln, it's a toaster oven
13:28 Tom_itx anyway, bbl
13:28 rue_bed k
13:28 Tom_itx get one of those cheap MPGs
13:28 rue_bed mpg?
13:29 katsmeow-afk avi?
13:29 Tom_itx encoder wheels
13:29 rue_bed oh, heh, not for the toaster oven
13:30 rue_bed I have almost all the operation working on interrupts
13:30 rue_bed the temp sensors, the temp regulator, the clock, the encoder button
13:31 rue_bed the main code just has to work out what it wants done
13:57 katsmeow-afk http://news.discovery.com/tech/robotics/vampire-bat-drone-walks-and-flies-150123.htm
13:57 katsmeow-afk it looks NOTHING like a bat
14:23 Tom_itx rue_bed you should be about ready to cook rice
14:27 rue_bed need lunch
14:27 rue_bed !
14:28 katsmeow-afk weather today: windy, 60F, lots of gunfire
14:32 Tom_itx is that unusual?
14:33 katsmeow-afk 60 is a lil warm for Jan, 54 is normal
14:33 Tom_itx i think i finally got all the goods i need now to do rigid tapping on my mill
14:33 katsmeow-afk threading on the mill?
14:33 Tom_itx uh huh
14:34 Tom_itx with no special holder
14:34 katsmeow-afk but your mill is lite-duty , wouldn't a hefty drill press hold the tap better?
14:35 Tom_itx no reverse
14:35 katsmeow-afk dc motor
14:35 katsmeow-afk or just reverse the start windings
14:35 katsmeow-afk most ac motors run equally well in reverse
14:37 tsmeow-afk tosses Tom a dpdt reversing toggle sw
14:42 katsmeow-afk air conditioner co put in an undersized 240v motor to crank a LPG engine to run a/c compressor, if the system had back pressure the poor motor would turn the engine 1/2 rev, then stal, the start winding would eventually kick out on overheat, and the engine compression would kick the motor in reverse, and THEN the motor would merrily spin up
14:42 katsmeow-afk and run all day , turning the engine backwards
14:44 katsmeow-afk i found a large pm-type dc motor on 6vdc or 12vdc made a wonderful torque limited bi-directional tapping motor on my lil drill press, and on higher volts did drilling nicely too
14:44 katsmeow-afk i been thinking of using a windshield wiper motor to tap with
14:45 katsmeow-afk mostly just need a larger chuck for pipe taps, vs small machine screw taps
14:45 katsmeow-afk hold the tap straight, hold the work steady
14:52 katsmeow-afk why not use your lathe for tapping? too fast?
14:53 katsmeow-afk chuck the tap, clamp work on the table
14:53 Tom_itx i have but not on 'mill' work
14:53 tsmeow-afk
14:56 katsmeow-afk ok, i go back outside to make noise rearranging steel
15:48 rue_house http://techno-logic-art.com/clock.htm
15:48 rue_house kat ^
15:49 rue_house I see lots of diode drops
15:49 rue_house a schematic would be equally impressive
15:51 tsmeow-afk looks pooped already, prolly from forgetting to
15:51 rue_house odd tho, they say its 12VDC but that its using mains freq as a ref
15:52 rue_house and I'm pretty sure the leds form a ring divider for the seconds
15:54 rue_house I suspect that a thing like that is more easily mode with ring cuonters
15:54 katsmeow-afk or a shift register
15:55 katsmeow-afk just bump the seconds around with a shift regiter, then trip the hours shift register at the :00
15:55 katsmeow-afk minutes
15:56 Tom_itx somebody had way too much time on their hands
15:56 Tom_itx no pun intended :D
15:56 katsmeow-afk heh
15:57 katsmeow-afk well, depends on what they get paid for it, i spose
15:57 rue_house I could see it going for a lot
15:57 katsmeow-afk someone made fun of me for making chain maille, till i pointed out i turned a $40 spool of wire into a $150 shirt in my spare time and when watching tv
15:58 katsmeow-afk rue, when i look at the mass of wiring in the middle, i think it's all for show, it's not working circits
15:58 rue_house I coldn't work out how to do turns, and then I cut my finger badly making rings, and gave up
15:59 rue_house I think all the diodes are the 7 segment rom
15:59 katsmeow-afk turns? generally you don't, you make panels and link them at slopes in the pattern
15:59 rue_house ah
16:00 katsmeow-afk someone made a mechanical stitcher that made panels, they then just cut out the pieces to make the clothes
16:01 rue_house I was using 1/8" filler rod, into about 3/4" loops
16:02 katsmeow-afk 3/4? that's pretty big, and filler rod is pricey, electric fence wire islots cheaper
16:02 katsmeow-afk i have maybe 500lbs of 1/8 fence wire left
16:03 katsmeow-afk i used up most of my smaller wire, i have maybe 15lbs of wire in ~3/8 coils
16:03 katsmeow-afk i have some 8" links in 1.25" wire, it's too heavy to wear, of course
16:05 katsmeow-afk and generally, you almost never touch the wire with your paws, you pick it up and loop it with shortie needle-nose plaiers
16:05 katsmeow-afk soldering it can be a pain, so is dremeling off each solder joint when done
16:10 katsmeow-afk dratit, i was forgetting toeat again, so i got food and sat it tween me and the keybd
16:11 rue_house to make rings, did you wind on a bar and then slice lengthwise?
16:12 katsmeow-afk i made a jig (you know i did) to hold a sled with the drill on it, turn a rod, and move it lengthwise over a tensioner on the wirefeed
16:13 katsmeow-afk i used a windshield motor to pull on a 5ft long superduty brake cable, which closed up on modified nippers at the end i held
16:13 rue_house it looks like neon bulbs are much more component efficient to make ring counters out of than to use transistors
16:13 katsmeow-afk then i grond the nippers to fit easily into the end of the coils (even te small diameters) and nip off 1 or 2 coils from the "spring"
16:14 rue_house wow
16:14 katsmeow-afk i used a piece of steel strappng tape to make a foot pedal to operate the motor
16:15 katsmeow-afk neons cost way more and need at least 70v - 90v to lite off, and while will lite at dc prefer ac, are brighter n ac, last longer on ac
16:16 katsmeow-afk 100v transistor cost more
16:16 rue_house I was just looking at transistor ring counter circuits, lots more components
16:17 rue_house ok I need to get soemthing done
16:18 katsmeow-afk make a way to do internet connections so the isp cannot tell outgoing data is outgoing
16:20 katsmeow-afk Professor Alexander argues this discovery is a profound challenge both to the right-wing view that addiction is a moral failing caused by too much hedonistic partying, and the liberal view that
16:20 katsmeow-afk addiction is a disease taking place in a chemically hijacked brain. In fact, he argues, addiction is an adaptation. It's not you. It's your cage.
16:20 katsmeow-afk my cage allows only 20k bits/sec
16:20 katsmeow-afk i could become addicted to 1M bits/sec upload
16:20 katsmeow-afk please addict me
16:24 katsmeow-afk He says we should stop talking about 'addiction' altogether, and instead call it 'bonding.' A heroin addict has bonded with heroin because she couldn't bond as fully with anything else. <<== somany humans bond with animals and ignore all of humanity
16:25 katsmeow-afk you can become addicted to gambling, and nobody thinks you inject a pack of cards into your veins.
16:33 katsmeow-afk ... The Lamont boiler concept was lighter, safer, with much higher rates of heat transfer and evaporation per square foot than standard water tube boilers of his time.
16:35 katsmeow-afk These lightweight fast steaming boilers were made in outputs of up to 500,000#/hr at 1,420psi and 942 degrees steam.
16:36 katsmeow-afk The Lamont boiler is like a big Doble F boiler in that it has a large helical furnace wall and helical coils top and bottom.
16:36 katsmeow-afk the Doble, as you may remember, is used in the Doble steam cars, which cold be driven off in under a minute from dead cold in sub-freezing weather
16:37 katsmeow-afk Heat absorption rates as high as 60,000BTU/ft.sq. for the entire boiler surface were possible
16:38 katsmeow-afk 1 hp = 2545 btu per hour
16:39 katsmeow-afk iirc, a Doble boiler was ~1 cu ft, and the entire boiler unit installed and insulated with fan and fuel pump was under 2x2x2 ft
16:40 katsmeow-afk so 400hp = 1,018,000 btu , needs 17 ft of boiler tube surface (!!??)
16:40 katsmeow-afk but sadly, gobs and gobs and gobs of condenser area and air blowers
16:43 katsmeow-afk has pictures in color : http://www.steamautomobile.com/northea/lamont.html
16:44 katsmeow-afk so we need a cheap source of 1/2 emt that can handle 500psi, essentially
16:46 katsmeow-afk with diesel still costing $1 more per gallon than gasoline, and pine cones still being free, it's silly to NOT want a steam engine of some flavor
16:47 katsmeow-afk need a way to know that a lengt of tubing is about to corrode thru , or explode, too
17:06 katsmeow-afk ... 1/10 gallon per sq ft per hour @ 150F , so 900 sq ft will give me 90 gallons per hour at 150F
17:06 katsmeow-afk which means i will still have meaningful water volumes at lower temperatures
17:07 katsmeow-afk that's for $15 of fabric
17:08 katsmeow-afk if i wanted to sell drinking water made from ocean water, and put up $1000 for fabric, i could make 6000 gallons of water per hour
17:10 katsmeow-afk not counting the cost of the condensors, which , if i actually had 6000 gallons of water, could be as simple as cold water curtains
17:11 katsmeow-afk an acre-foot of water is 7 times 6000 gallons, so if only solar power was used, it would take a week to make an acrefoot of distilled water
17:12 katsmeow-afk 6000 gallons is ~9x9x9 ft tank
17:14 katsmeow-afk i still dunno how much condensor surface i need
17:15 katsmeow-afk i am going to guess 4x as much as i have in evaporator area
17:15 katsmeow-afk because the temperature drop will be less, and it won't be bare water
17:33 rue_house my boiler has 54 2" pipes
17:33 rue_house Circumfrence is : 6.283185
17:34 rue_house that are about 48"
17:34 Tom_itx hope you didn't use conduit
17:34 rue_house zippo:/files/objects/cornerclip# calc 48*6.28
17:34 rue_house 48*6.28 -->> 301.44
17:34 rue_house calc 301.44*54
17:34 rue_house 301.44*54 -->> 16277.8
17:34 rue_house I did
17:34 Tom_itx it will rust out quickly
17:34 rue_house zippo:/files/objects/cornerclip# units 16277inch2 feet2
17:34 rue_house * 113.03472
17:35 rue_house its galvanized
17:35 Tom_itx welded galvanized isn't galvanized anymore
17:35 rue_house so kat, I have 113"^2 of area on my boiler exchanger
17:35 rue_house brazed
17:35 Tom_itx same diff
17:35 rue_house no, dosn't burn off the zink
17:36 rue_house er 113'^2
17:36 rue_house and I get baout 8000btu/hr normally
17:44 Tom_itx i think i have just enough pins left for the spindle pwm, CW/CCW, and enable
17:45 Tom_itx time to make a bit file
17:46 tsmeow-afk dropped one end of a 20ft stick of 3" heavy channel on her t
17:47 Tom_itx ouch
17:47 katsmeow-afk yeas
17:48 katsmeow-afk i see brazing burn off the zink, as the brass flows, the rust line is right at the end of the brass
17:49 katsmeow-afk if you think about it, the water doesn't go above 100c in your "boiler", so if you *soldered* to the zinc the joint is water-cooled and should hold, till you lose the water
17:51 katsmeow-afk i wanna run the whole system no hotter than 180F, becauseit's possible to make 200+ psi at 150F, if you use something other than water, and 1/2 sch40 pvc is good for well over 200psi
17:52 katsmeow-afk a 6 inch piston has 28 sq inches of surface, and at 200psi is 5,600 lbs, which is higher than i wanna design a crankshaft for anyhow
17:54 tsmeow-afk wantstostopmashingthespacebarwithhermashedt
17:55 tsmeow-afk looksatherotehrpawandasksitwtfitwasdoingwhiletherightpawwasgettingma
17:55 katsmeow-afk itsaysitwasgettingoutoftheway
18:03 katsmeow-afk propane at 100F = 175psi , propane at 130F = 275psi , or for a 30F rise you gain 100psi , and it's still only 130F
18:03 katsmeow-afk so counting inefficencies sprinkled throughout, staying under 180F seems feasable to me
18:05 katsmeow-afk at 160F it's at 380psi , which can be worked with in terms of piping, but the poor crankof a 6" piston will haveto endure 10,600 lbs push from just one 6" piston
18:05 katsmeow-afk if you cannot modulate the pressure (aka throwing away efficency)
18:06 katsmeow-afk if you have two adjacent pistons pushing at total 20,000 lbs, that's a whale of load on that bearing cap
18:08 tsmeow-afk ponders a 6" piston at 100psi pushing on a 1" piston which presurises a hydraulic sy
18:42 tsmeow-afk keeps an eye on the storm, so she can go outside and do some grinding, because the neighbors wil be inside with doors and windows
18:57 katsmeow-afk stupid humans : Roka residents rushed to get their blood tested after a 74-year-old man alerted the community after he tested positive for the virus in November. The medic testing them reused syringes, and so gave 212 of those villagers HIV.
19:02 katsmeow-afk Dorothy is one of the last survivors among roughly 2,000 psychiatrically ill veterans the Veterans Administration lobotomized in the 1940s and 1950s. The Wall Street Journal in 2013 first detailed the VA lobotomy program and profiled the troubled life of World War II pilot Roman Tritz, 91, the only living lobotomized veteran the newspaper could locate at the time.
19:02 katsmeow-afk http://www.wsj.com/articles/a-world-war-ii-nurses-va-lobotomy-takes-toll-on-family-she-raised-1422032121
19:32 katsmeow-afk that wasn't a storm, that was hardly a sprinkle
19:41 katsmeow-afk believe the Lamont design has it over the other examples in simplicity of controls with higher heat transfer and water evaporation rates with less boiler weight, with almost absolute safety. One of the German boilers ran over 60,000 hours without maintenance including pump and seals.
19:44 katsmeow-afk http://www.steamautomobile.com/northea/papers.html
19:48 katsmeow-afk For comparison, the White achieved a fuel rate of approximately 1 lb/hp-hr, while a modern gas engine gets 0.5 lb/hp-hr, and a diesel does best of all at 0.3 lb/hp-hr
20:05 katsmeow-afk This produces steam temperatures between 750 and 800 degrees in normal driving and kept the temperature above 700 during the entire climb, which required steam pressures, at the engine, above 450 psi.! .... having driven the car 1500 miles in this season, the engine suffered a crank failure, followed immediately by the unrestrained piston breaking the end out of the cylinder.
20:18 katsmeow-afk a bigger boiler and a bigger engine. In-
20:18 katsmeow-afk cidentally, on this bigger job, we had enough torque to twist the Spicer universal
20:18 katsmeow-afk joints off.
20:30 katsmeow-afk hmmmmmm , diesels work by having the top-dead-center compressed air above the ignition point of diesel fuel,, so what if you fed in water and the heat boiled the water? would it make power?
20:31 Tom_itx wouldn't hydrylock?
20:31 katsmeow-afk hey, i am the one asking the questions
20:32 Tom_itx you are not entitled to all of them :)
20:32 katsmeow-afk i assume the steam would go out the exhaust valve?
20:32 Tom_itx not until it opened
20:32 Tom_itx and would the water put the fire out?
20:32 katsmeow-afk not that i am going to fill my diesel tank with water any time soon
20:33 katsmeow-afk operate it with no fire, inject only water
20:33 katsmeow-afk it can be hot water, of course
20:40 katsmeow-afk For that run down feeling,
20:40 katsmeow-afk try jaywalking
20:51 katsmeow-afk The (dynamo engine was formerly a
20:51 katsmeow-afk Freon refrigeration compressor having two single acting pistons 1-1/2" diameter and
20:51 katsmeow-afk 1-5/8" stroke; this I redesigned and rebuilt into
20:51 katsmeow-afk a high speed steam engine of the
20:51 katsmeow-afk old Westinghouse type. Top speed is over 2300 rpm but the generator will charge
20:51 katsmeow-afk 16 amps through the car type voltage regulator at much less speed.
20:54 katsmeow-afk "WHY DON'T WE HAVE A STEAM GAR?" begause.
20:55 katsmeow-afk One day we found a big Stanley touring car parked at a curb downtown. Its
20:55 katsmeow-afk pilot light gave off a low contented hiss, so we sat down to keep an eye on it.
20:55 katsmeow-afk Soon, slowly but surely, the empty Stanley began to creep forward.
20:55 katsmeow-afk We watched
20:55 katsmeow-afk with relish as it touched the car in front of it, gently and firmly. The other
20:55 katsmeow-afk car gave way and it, too, moved. Finally, when the Stanley had gathered up
20:55 katsmeow-afk about four cars the whole parade stopped.
20:55 katsmeow-afk But the steamer, inherently non-stall-
20:55 katsmeow-afk able, continued to turn its rear wheels, grinding and burning the tires against
20:55 katsmeow-afk the pavement. Then the safety valve blew.
20:55 katsmeow-afk The clouds of screaming, escaping
20:55 katsmeow-afk steam, plus the smoke and smell of the burning tires made a very fair little
20:55 katsmeow-afk panic. Parents ran to safety, their children flying at arm's length, while grown
20:55 katsmeow-afk men and women crouched in doorways, their arms before their faces.
20:58 katsmeow-afk The 1926 Doble- easily the most magnificent steamer ever
20:58 katsmeow-afk built -cruised at sixty miles per hour with the engine turning over at only nine
20:58 katsmeow-afk hundred revolutions per minute!
21:01 katsmeow-afk ....
21:01 katsmeow-afk he fashioned a 2 x 4 in. bore and stroke, two-cyl-
21:01 katsmeow-afk inder engine, plus a 16 x 16 x6 inch boiler that developed 150 pounds per square
21:01 katsmeow-afk inch steam pressure.
21:02 katsmeow-afk The whole bike, complete with water and fuel, weighed 70 lbs.
21:02 katsmeow-afk At 200 rpm engine speed this scorcher turned up 60 miles per hour!
21:02 katsmeow-afk so i figure rue cold put that size into his 12ft mecha, and have plenty of power, without a noisey engine
21:08 rue_house the mecha only neds a few HP too
21:09 katsmeow-afk you could hide the parts too, the cylinders could be structural torso parts
21:33 katsmeow-afk at 60mph, 3ft dia trucktires turn only 560mph , if the engine turned at best only 750 rpm (80mph), alot of interesting control solutions canhappen that cannot happen at 3000 rpm
21:33 rue_house I'm set on pneumatic muscles
21:34 katsmeow-afk if the overdrive was 1:2 , then at 375 engine rpm you have even more solutions
21:35 rue_house imagine how simple a steam-> compressed air engine could be
21:36 tsmeow-afk is imagining
21:37 rue_house http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/robots/sparrow1/p1040015.jpg
21:37 rue_house http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/robots/sparrow1/p1040018.jpg
21:37 rue_house 12' isn't that big ya know
21:38 Tom_itx do your neighbors ever question you?
21:38 katsmeow-afk a tripod ladder?!
21:38 tsmeow-afk looks very ner
21:39 katsmeow-afk looks to me like you have 5ft between hips andshoulders to put in a small steam engine
21:41 katsmeow-afk trumpets etc use piston valves,, i wonder if they'd hold up being used for 100psi air
21:42 rue_house Tom_itx, only when there are explosions
21:43 rue_house orchid ladder, always sits firm
21:43 rue_house point of amusement, my head clears its crotch
21:43 rue_house but really, its not that big
21:54 katsmeow-afk rue, can any brass-body stainless-ball valve be usedfor normal house hot water?
22:00 katsmeow-afk Why do we still
22:00 katsmeow-afk have complaints from readers when
22:00 katsmeow-afk so much has been done since the
22:00 katsmeow-afk 1920s?
22:07 katsmeow-afk "At typical conditions in outdoor pools, evaporation rates of about .1 lb. of water per hour per square foot of water surface may be expected."
22:07 katsmeow-afk "It can range from about 4 feet per year in the eastern part of the state to about 6 feet per year in the west."
22:10 katsmeow-afk umm, 4ft/yr is 0.13 inches PER DAY, not 0.10 inches PER HOUR that someone else said
22:13 katsmeow-afk "An exposed pool loses 50 to 70 gallons of water per square foot per year to evaporation."
22:13 rue_house why couldn't you?
22:13 katsmeow-afk that's 0.16 gallons PER DAY
22:13 katsmeow-afk i asked first
22:14 rue_house I'll say yet
22:14 rue_house yes
22:14 katsmeow-afk at 0.16 gallons-sqft-day, 900 sqft = 147 gallons per day
22:18 katsmeow-afk "If you don't let sewage into your system, it is less likely to be an open sewer"
22:30 katsmeow-afk "In different areas the rate of loss varies, but in Houston, Texas, we figure on evaporation of 1" to 1.5" per week during the summer."
22:30 katsmeow-afk that's 0.14 inches per day too
22:31 katsmeow-afk so yea, i doneed to use all the fabric ibought,, which is sorta why i spent all of $12 on it
22:31 katsmeow-afk with it, i can evaporate at least 100 gallons of oceanwater per day, making water for me and plants
22:32 katsmeow-afk more if i heat it first
22:57 katsmeow-afk if i tried to *filter* 100 gallons of water from the creek here, it would prolly cost me ~$15/week
22:57 katsmeow-afk if i tried to *filter* 100 gallons of water *per day* from the creek here, it would prolly cost me ~$15/week
22:58 katsmeow-afk replacing at least one paper filter each week, and one carbon filter at least every 2 weeks
22:59 katsmeow-afk that's without using the RO water
22:59 katsmeow-afk so spending $12 on the fabric and going with evaporation saves me replacing many filters
23:10 katsmeow-afk ...
23:46 rue_shop3 300degrees over a circumfrence of 42mm
23:46 rue_shop3 hmmm
23:47 rue_shop3 D = 16mm
23:48 rue_shop3 gee, I dont even need to print that