#garfield Logs
Nov 08 2013
#garfield Calendar
00:58 katsmeow-afk it looks good, Tom
01:08 rue_bed my 'cold' hit my lower end just this afternoon, NOW its annoying
06:55 jennie Hello
09:17 tsmeow-afk woke up today feeling be
09:45 tsmeow-afk has been saying this for decades : http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/268415.php
09:50 katsmeow-afk Spam prevention
09:50 katsmeow-afk Write 'LOL' backwards.
11:31 katsmeow-afk http://www.abcnews.go.com/Technology/robot-inspired-heart-pumps-urine-blood/print?id=20827962
12:50 katsmeow-afk http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dl/Datasheets-CRAI/DSACRA000017529.pdf
12:51 katsmeow-afk http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dl/Datasheets-CRAI/DSACRA000017526.pdf
12:52 katsmeow-afk http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dl/Datasheets-CRAI/DSACRA000017538.pdf
13:04 rue_house sweet
13:04 rue_house I'll play with that later
13:04 katsmeow-afk <curtsey>
13:05 Tom_itx 9114901159818822316205
13:05 katsmeow-afk thanks :-)
13:05 tsmeow-afk hopes everyone else here is feeling betetr than yeste
13:06 rue_house I think my cold is setting up base in my lungs
13:06 katsmeow-afk eat 500mg vitamin c every 6 hrs
13:06 rue_house the boiler exhaust says -8c
13:06 rue_house its +- 10c, I think
13:06 tsmeow-afk uncrosses rue's eyes so he can see be
13:07 rue_house the bottle is half empty, and its only 500mg to begin with
13:07 rue_house I should clean my desk, its riddled with $1 ebay items
13:08 katsmeow-afk 500 per day is a fine dose, but to change your body chemistry to make it less hospitable to germs once they set up camp, you need more per day
13:08 rue_house http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5d/Royer_oscillator.gif
13:08 rue_house have design formulas on that thing?
13:09 katsmeow-afk no
13:09 katsmeow-afk why you set on that one design?
13:09 rue_house I recon Vbase should be set to about 1V as per vcc?
13:09 rue_house I needed a small inverter for someting
13:09 rue_house some posted it and got me thinking
13:10 katsmeow-afk gosh no, 1v is way too high, it prolly won't osc
13:10 katsmeow-afk ok, but it's operation depends on a stable vcc
13:10 rue_house but
13:10 rue_house if you put votage between those two bases
13:10 rue_house one will forward bias
13:11 rue_house the other will be reverse bias..
13:11 katsmeow-afk the feedback winding hasto be able to teak the base drive above and below .7v , so i'd start at .35v when it is NOT oscillating
13:11 rue_house where is a pen...
13:11 katsmeow-afk so the fd winding makes +/-.35v to kick the base to .7v and 0v
13:11 rue_house I'm drawing too much latley, the pile under the keyboard is making it tippy
13:12 katsmeow-afk my mouse pad tends to get buried that way
13:13 katsmeow-afk to make that design stable, you need a current source, maybe with a '431 , tween the two base resistors and the vcc
13:14 katsmeow-afk TL431 + a resistor,, maybe 2.2k
13:14 katsmeow-afk ~1ma
13:15 katsmeow-afk tweak up/down from there depending on the gain of your transistors
13:15 katsmeow-afk http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-x-TL431ACL-TL431-PRECISION-SHUNT-REGULATOR-FREE-SHIPPING-/321024839917
13:16 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images/p1050615.jpg
13:16 rue_house if...
13:16 katsmeow-afk course, if the vcc is too high you may need other parts
13:16 rue_house you have, say 1V
13:16 rue_house then you have 4.5V on one side, and 5.5 on the other
13:16 katsmeow-afk umm
13:17 rue_house if you were to ignore the transistors
13:17 rue_house oh if I just draw them as diodes...
13:18 katsmeow-afk yea,, i'd still like to point out there's better designs
13:18 rue_house I'm into mind problems
13:18 rue_house usually am when I'm ill
13:19 rue_house oh, interesting
13:19 rue_house if V=0 both of them are forward biased
13:19 katsmeow-afk part of that design's issue is it hasto drive against the pullup of each R
13:19 rue_house that makes for an ugly startup
13:19 katsmeow-afk yeas, sure does
13:20 katsmeow-afk you have no concrete on/off
13:20 katsmeow-afk at least with a current source, you get a iffy turnon by whichever traisnsitor is fastest
13:21 katsmeow-afk being that turnon is an ac event, you can cheat by adding a small cap across one of the R
13:22 katsmeow-afk it will offset the pwm drive some, and will affect the output some
13:22 katsmeow-afk depending on the cap size, etc
13:23 katsmeow-afk me, i'd use a positive drive osc which can sync to the feedback winding, if it must
13:24 katsmeow-afk can you ct the fb winding? if so, add a resistor there to gnd to lower the dc bias on the transistors
13:24 rue_house it looks like the voltage must almost be vcc to release the one side
13:24 rue_house oh operate it like a computer smps
13:25 tsmeow-afk
13:26 katsmeow-afk it's relying on the .7v drop on one BE to drive the other base below Vturnon, even while the R on each base is pulling up
13:26 katsmeow-afk and as you said, it's ugly (and undefined) at startup
13:28 katsmeow-afk if you unbalance it just about anywhere, with a small cap praps, it will start osc'ing faster
13:28 katsmeow-afk the gotcha is if the transformer drive is unstable, you can't really tell what the output V will be
13:28 katsmeow-afk altho it may be acceptable
13:30 katsmeow-afk i have heard of such designs not working once put into a plastc box, altho they woked in a metal box, because one of the leads was close tot he metal, and unbalanced the circuit capacitances
13:31 tsmeow-afk hands rue a
13:33 katsmeow-afk also hear such a circuit worked with a single centertapped winding, and not a bifilar winding, again because one line was closer to gnd (the transformer core, in this case) than the bifilar windinw is
13:34 katsmeow-afk 20% resistors, witn one being 10% high and one being 10% low, will prolly start it fine too
13:34 katsmeow-afk but that is sloppy engineering
13:34 rue_house that circuit only has 5 components
13:35 katsmeow-afk but one of them is a special transformer, one wound just for that design
13:38 katsmeow-afk whatever your input and output is, your fb winding must drive the transistors without popping them, and not violate the transnformer's freq range too
13:38 katsmeow-afk other than only 5 parts, what is that circuit's benifit?
13:39 rue_house ah, you ignore the resistor
13:39 rue_house you look at the current thru the diodes
13:40 katsmeow-afk i do
13:40 katsmeow-afk theoretically, you can eliminate the resistors, if you have greater than .7v drive fromt he fb winding
13:40 katsmeow-afk if you don't, it cannot run
13:41 katsmeow-afk Tiggr has Akrotiri listed as a separate country
13:43 rue_house I get that the bias current is vcc+vfb-0.7/R
13:44 rue_house and vfb needs to be just more than 0.7 to have voltage left over to revrse bias one transistor after forward biasing the other
13:45 katsmeow-afk yeas and no,, the rev bias is pulling down againt the R which is pulling it up
13:46 katsmeow-afk if the fb wind makes 1v, then you can eliminate one R by center tapping the fb winding and gnding it there
13:46 katsmeow-afk err, +/- 1v
13:47 katsmeow-afk but you still have the issue of "how does it start up reliably?"
13:47 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images/p1050616.jpg
13:48 katsmeow-afk you won't make 1.3 v across the BE junction
13:48 rue_house its reversed
13:48 katsmeow-afk ok
13:48 rue_house to the 2V source is --->|----|<-----
13:49 rue_house so one gets forced forward and the other is left reverse biased
13:49 tsmeow-afk is thinking she should be outside no matetr the temperature, and why Tiggr is calling an RAF military base in Cyprus a separate cou
13:49 rue_house heh
13:50 katsmeow-afk i bet some idiot made a wierd entry in dbpedia, and Tiggr believed it
13:56 katsmeow-afk Akrotiri_(village) , Akrotiri,_Crete , Akrotiri_and_Dhekelia , RAF_Akrotiri
16:24 katsmeow-afk need any 0.0150 1% smd resistors?
16:27 rue_house how many watts/.
16:27 rue_house ?
16:27 katsmeow-afk says 1w
16:28 rue_house I'm looking at ne keyboards, I can tell that I still have problems with the slash on the end of the shiftkey of the keyboard I'v used forever, so I dont think I'll worry about getting a keybaord with the slash in a differend loation
16:28 katsmeow-afk if you calc the Vdrop at any reasonable amps for an smd, it's below 1w
16:28 katsmeow-afk http://www.ebay.com/itm/300-PCS-VISHAY-SEMICONDUCTOR-IPWSL2512R0150FEA-/360784568952
16:28 katsmeow-afk 5amps is only .075 drop
16:28 katsmeow-afk so 5amps is ~1/2 w
16:29 katsmeow-afk .375 watts
16:29 katsmeow-afk 10 amps you haven't hit 1w yet
16:29 katsmeow-afk thing is, at 10amps, you can use the pcb traces themselves as current sense dropping resistors
16:30 katsmeow-afk and, you should prolly use remote current sensing anyhow
16:30 katsmeow-afk err.
16:30 katsmeow-afk and, you should prolly use remote voltage sensing anyhow, so your leads will be the current sense resistors
16:33 katsmeow-afk damn, i thought i had a good score again, at $3 , it went for $88 the last 5 seconds
16:35 katsmeow-afk $3 = good score ; $88 = not even going to bid
16:40 katsmeow-afk hmm, a 512 byte serial prom, electrically eraseable
16:42 katsmeow-afk could divide the day into 2.8 minute segments.....
16:42 katsmeow-afk divide a 360 into .7 degre segments ....
16:43 katsmeow-afk i dunno what to do with one, but here they are : http://www.ebay.com/itm/68-PCS-ISSI-IS93C56A-2ZLI-TR-/360786895932
16:44 rue_house ebay is having great fun changing around their icons
16:45 katsmeow-afk the last week, eyas
16:47 katsmeow-afk 1000's of ethernet transciever chips going on auction too
16:48 rue_house tracsciever?
16:48 tsmeow-afk
16:48 rue_house hubs? controllers?
16:49 rue_house ebay is having troubles
16:49 tsmeow-afk nods a
16:49 rue_house cant load page 2 of my items
16:49 katsmeow-afk easy: select show 200 per page
16:50 rue_house I cant for items I'v already bought...
16:51 katsmeow-afk umm, ok, err,, show the archive listing, select 2013
16:51 rue_house ah trickey
16:52 katsmeow-afk Tom, you still need spdt ittybitty switches? http://www.ebay.com/itm/207-PCS-CWI-GF-624-0039-/390695395583
16:53 tsmeow-afk keeps an eye out for things she remembers peoples ne
16:54 rue_house damn I ordered a bunch of irfd tags for stupid cheap and they aren't gonna arrive, :(
16:54 katsmeow-afk why not?
16:55 rue_house it was ordered 9/13 if its been that long, it wont arrive
16:56 rue_house nothing rolling off the end of the list ever arrives
16:57 katsmeow-afk it's been only 8 weks <cough> ask em wth it is
16:57 katsmeow-afk you wait too long and you cannot cencel payment on it
16:57 katsmeow-afk good prices on 74f374 and 373 now
16:58 katsmeow-afk and 74abt latches
16:59 katsmeow-afk 2000pcs 74abt16623dggr $10
17:00 katsmeow-afk Mouse over image to zoom
17:00 katsmeow-afk Have one to sell? Sell it yourself
17:00 katsmeow-afk 1000 PCS IDT 71256SA20Y
17:00 katsmeow-afk 32kx8 $10
17:01 rue_house no time I just demand a refund or tel them I'll give them bad feedback
17:01 katsmeow-afk some 70ns drams, prolly datecoded 1985, likely no bids on
17:02 katsmeow-afk 1000pcs 74FCT373 $3
17:08 tsmeow-afk needs a grinding room, a place to make 140db of noise, where it won't bother anyone, and can be real dirty, and i need it this winter so i don't haveto put a fan in it to say cool, and the floor needs to tolerate at least 100
17:08 katsmeow-afk oh, and it cannot cost anything
17:12 katsmeow-afk and if it is portable, that is a plus, because it may be easier to move the room around the steel, than move the steel into the room
17:15 katsmeow-afk http://www.timeanddate.com/scripts/sunmap.php
17:16 katsmeow-afk 2 minutes ago : http://icons.wunderground.com/webcamramdisk/a/l/aldot1/4/current.jpg?1383951635
17:17 katsmeow-afk http://icons.wunderground.com/webcamramdisk/a/l/aldot1/5/current.jpg
17:30 tsmeow-afk is going to nuke dinner e
17:31 rue_house would you say tiggers sort alg is a type of thinking?
17:33 katsmeow-afk if you would like me to
17:35 katsmeow-afk i think if i were to want another sorta big programming problem, i'd write a ebay interface to sort by qty, by delivery time, with "exclude seller", etc selectors
17:39 katsmeow-afk problem with filters is like : "Augustine I of Mexico" won't cross reference to "Agust%C3%ADn_de_Iturbide" or "Agust\u00EDn Cosme Dami\u00E1n de Iturbide y Aramburu"
17:39 katsmeow-afk whatever all that unicode/hex-html is
17:47 rue_house how handy, I just happen to have a pile of volt meters from ebay fr testing the batteriesin this pile
17:48 rue_house oh, and there is a new multimeter somewhere
18:21 katsmeow-afk a pile of volt meters? like the pile of bearings?
18:33 rue_house I could 7
18:33 rue_house count
18:34 Tom_itx kat must be feeling better
18:35 Tom_itx you may need to clean one of those holes out a bit
18:35 Tom_itx might be a rather snug press fit
18:36 tsmeow-afk readies the sandp
18:36 Tom_itx i've only one good way to meaure ID and i'm not sure i trust it
18:36 katsmeow-afk dial calipers?
18:36 Tom_itx been used too many times as a scribe
18:37 katsmeow-afk ah
20:54 Tom_itx katsmeow-afk what you gonna do with those motors?
21:08 katsmeow-afk make things turn?
21:08 katsmeow-afk i have 3 applications i been considering
21:09 katsmeow-afk 1) turn the wheels to make carry-platforms turn (carry-platforms = wheeled robot base of any kind)
21:09 katsmeow-afk (or tracks)
21:09 katsmeow-afk 2) pull cables to make remote somethings turn (robot shoulder, elbow)
21:10 Tom_itx they don't currently turn?
21:10 katsmeow-afk 3) see if it would make a powerful stepper, by bolting down the rotor, driving the coils on it with 1/2 h-bridges, and spinning the stator
21:11 katsmeow-afk no powerful enough movers that are both fast and flexable, cept for air muscles
21:11 katsmeow-afk and air muscles aren't repetable
21:13 katsmeow-afk afaik, it's a small readily available motor (i have 14 of them, plus some other small motors), relatively cheap (couple $ at recycler), especially for the instantaeous hp you can dump into them (one hp), that no one else has completely tested
21:13 katsmeow-afk they are always available on ebay , depending on the price one is willing to pay
21:14 katsmeow-afk my use *now* is making the carry-platforms move, cargo here-to-there and go-get-it robotic stuff
21:16 katsmeow-afk by having huge torque, i hope to not have massive noisey gear/chain reduction, the steriotypical robot whine and clanking
21:17 katsmeow-afk because they can spin fast, and take instant very high current peaks (100amps or more) i think they can respond faster than anything else out there
21:17 katsmeow-afk (100 amps for 1/2 sec or so)
21:18 katsmeow-afk sounds high, but there's 4 windings in parallel in the rotor, and 2 sets of brushes in parallel
21:18 Tom_itx high current
21:19 katsmeow-afk plus with puter controleld feedback, if the motor is pulling up on an elbow at 20lbs, and i go push it down, it will go down, or i can have it compensate and no go down, instantly
21:19 katsmeow-afk yeas, it's capable
21:19 katsmeow-afk it wouldn't be a constant high current
21:20 katsmeow-afk for low duty cycle, it's capable
21:21 katsmeow-afk the rotor is iron, it isn't coreless, but i think it can get moving and stop fast under the right control
21:22 katsmeow-afk you could not, for instance, put the elbow motor in the arm and expect fast movement, but keeping the arm light, put the motor in the body and move the elbow by cable, it should be very fast and easy to move
21:23 katsmeow-afk being it is so available to me at the recycler, i am thinking of them in cnc drill press and lathe spindle drive
21:24 Tom_itx what voltage? 12v?
21:24 katsmeow-afk won't work on big tools, but on a 4" lathe, a 3/8 drill press, should be just fine
21:24 katsmeow-afk they are "rated" 12v, but i expect to run them on 24v pwm
21:25 katsmeow-afk gotta see how the brushes respond
21:26 katsmeow-afk atm, i am aiming at 3mph, walking speed, change up the load and terrain angle of slope, see how it goes
21:27 katsmeow-afk i *know* i need a motor on each wheel on the ground out here, been there, done that, anything 2-wheel-drive gets stuck going uphill, or slides going down
21:28 Tom_itx 4?
21:28 katsmeow-afk i am pretty sure they can spin a couple of weed whacker hubs
21:28 tsmeow-afk nods, 4 wheel d
21:29 katsmeow-afk it's steep out there, hit any obstruction at all, and the drive wheels spin
21:29 Tom_itx yep
21:30 katsmeow-afk http://designerthinking.com/images/house/IMG_0591.JPG
21:30 katsmeow-afk http://designerthinking.com/images/house/IMG_0592.JPG <<== but i do not expect it to climb this
21:32 katsmeow-afk very old pic, looks different now, but there's the slope : http://designerthinking.com/images/house/IMG_1325.jpg
21:33 katsmeow-afk very old pic, looks different now, but there's the driveway slope in front of the house : http://designerthinking.com/images/bigboat/camera%20055.jpg
21:35 Tom_itx i recall seeing similar
21:35 katsmeow-afk there's a slight slope in the Walmart parking lot too
21:35 katsmeow-afk and Kmart
21:35 Tom_itx how far away is it?
21:36 katsmeow-afk steep at Blockbusters as some of the driveway is
21:36 katsmeow-afk is what?
21:36 Tom_itx the stores
21:36 katsmeow-afk too far to send the robot(s) alone, i'll need to carry them in the car, ~10 miles by road
21:37 katsmeow-afk or on the baby trailer
21:38 katsmeow-afk the baby trailer is 4x6ft, the big one is ~6x21ft and i cannot pull it behind the car , i need a 5x10ft one some day
21:40 katsmeow-afk i doubt the 10" child bike tires are good for 70mph highway use, i wouldn't wanna be the one paying to try it out
21:40 katsmeow-afk even if i could put a hp into each of 4 motors
21:40 Tom_itx no prolly not
21:41 katsmeow-afk but the tires are fairly cheap (specially at recycler), and knobby
21:41 katsmeow-afk and they come in white and purple if i get n Shark Tank
21:42 katsmeow-afk could maybe put a set of retractable motorcycle tires on one and tow it, prolly get into trouble somewhere
21:43 katsmeow-afk but i hope it's a great lil general purpose high power motor
21:44 katsmeow-afk drop it into a 3" pvc pipe and sell it to rue as a higher speed submarine
21:47 katsmeow-afk "here ya go Subby, go down and find out why the anchor is hung"
21:47 katsmeow-afk "you say it's caught a scuba diver? well, be polite, bring them this sammich and wine bottle"
21:50 katsmeow-afk there's an interesting amount of space tween the commutator and the windings, it may be useful to populate that with a fan holding up irfz44's to optomise the rotor current as needed
21:52 katsmeow-afk connect each bar to 1/2 h-bridge of diodes, connect each winding to an h-bridge
21:52 katsmeow-afk or change out the commutator for alternator slip rings
21:52 katsmeow-afk i don't wanna draw a line and say "not going there"
21:53 katsmeow-afk i have a "normal" use for them, and i think there's room to experiment
21:56 Tom_itx you should have one good front end on the way
21:56 Tom_itx and 2 rear
21:56 Tom_itx can you use the others at all?
21:57 katsmeow-afk the two you sent already are very useable, i just add the 0.090 steel wire and they are good to go
21:58 Tom_itx i suppose you could solder them as a ring
21:58 Tom_itx so they don't squeeze out if that's possible
21:58 katsmeow-afk steel wire, they won't go anywhere
21:58 katsmeow-afk they'll bed in the aluminum before they can move out
22:00 katsmeow-afk there is 3/8 of space tween the commutator and the windings, and 3/4 from shaft to OD of the rotor iron
22:01 katsmeow-afk 7 pairs of windings, and irfz44 are 25 cents each on ebay
22:02 katsmeow-afk i can make a fake centertap on the power, and half-bridge each pair as it passes under the proper led
22:02 katsmeow-afk $4 seems a good budget for an experiment, and i can always put the wires back in oem position if it doesn't work well
22:03 Tom_itx yup
22:03 katsmeow-afk if it does work well, then i can also play *when* each winding comes on, and call it a stepper motor
22:04 katsmeow-afk and how may windings come on
22:04 katsmeow-afk many
22:06 katsmeow-afk what i am having more trouble with so far is sprockets for bike chain for it, i can get #35 sprockets, but all the #410 are made for specialised motors for small skateboards and things
22:06 katsmeow-afk the #40 sprockets are too fat, the bike chain won't go on the teeth
22:07 Tom_itx gocart/minibike
22:08 katsmeow-afk yeas, same issue, the bore of the sprocket isn't roound, they are splined
22:08 katsmeow-afk or D shaped
22:08 katsmeow-afk http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=bike+sprocket&_pgn=3&_skc=100&rt=nc
22:09 katsmeow-afk those for mini pocket bikes are unknown chain, but it's not bike chain
22:10 Tom_itx do road bikes and bmx use different chain?
22:11 katsmeow-afk i don't think so
22:11 Tom_itx ones that need shifters
22:11 Tom_itx to those that don't
22:11 katsmeow-afk *need* shifters are 420 chain, i think
22:11 katsmeow-afk but many, i think, carry 410
22:11 katsmeow-afk normal single-speeds are 410, it's a skinny version of commercial #40
22:12 katsmeow-afk i can get #40 cian and sprockets, but the big sizes are *really* pricey, and i can get bike parts for near-nothing
22:14 Tom_itx yep
22:16 katsmeow-afk no bike has 10-tooth sprockets
22:16 katsmeow-afk and no industry uses #410 chain
22:17 Tom_itx what drives conveyor belts or farm augers
22:17 katsmeow-afk #40 or larger
22:20 katsmeow-afk afk a few
22:22 katsmeow-afk bak
22:24 katsmeow-afk i don't know marketting to humans at all, but seems to me if i can make the motor perform many times betetr than oem, with a built in motor controller, so the interface is just like a pwm servo (or analog, take your pick), that would add to re-sale value
22:25 katsmeow-afk i dunno, i have a use for them, maybe others would also
22:27 katsmeow-afk if a spiderbot did all it's long traveling by jumping (some do), praps discharging a whopper of a cap into this motor would actually save power vs walking the same distance
22:27 katsmeow-afk a dog clutch to all the legs at once
22:27 katsmeow-afk crouch-latch-hop
22:31 katsmeow-afk i spose i can grind down the thickness of #40 sprockets
22:34 katsmeow-afk rue, the drive sprockets for that track is available on ebay : http://cdn.tradebit.org/usr/ridered-atc-atv/pub/9002/153991176_enticer410.jpg
22:37 katsmeow-afk track is too (ouch) : http://www.ebay.com/itm/84-90-93-YAMAHA-ENTICER-BRAVO-PHAZER-II-ET340-340-340T-LONG-TRACK-136-x-15-x-1-2-/290940529308
22:41 katsmeow-afk well, i spose i will haveto pull the #40 bike sprockets off the 10" wheels i have, and fit them for #35 chain and sprockets ,, or i haveto make my own 8T, 10T, whichever sprockets
22:43 katsmeow-afk 64T #35 is $15, 35B 10T are $9 , 10ft of #35 chain is $20
22:44 katsmeow-afk i haveto make the sprockets, adding $100 to the project instead of four #410 8T sprockets is silly
22:45 katsmeow-afk or i haveto make the 64T #35 sprockets (save $60 off that $100)
22:46 katsmeow-afk means costing me another $40, or the eqivalet of $10 per 8T 410 sprocket, if i could get them
22:46 katsmeow-afk AARRGGG
22:47 Tom_itx no mower scrap yards around?
22:47 Tom_itx not that that would help
22:48 katsmeow-afk mowers at the recycler
22:48 katsmeow-afk it would haveto be a walk-behind with powered wheels, and chain drive
22:49 katsmeow-afk and i'd haveto buy the whole things to apply power tools to it to get the sporcket off, and i haven't seen one at all this year
22:50 tsmeow-afk sighs,, $38 and grind down commercial #40 so they fit a #410 c
22:58 katsmeow-afk http://www.voodoosprockets.com/import-finished-bore-b-type-sprockets-40-chain.html <<== $6 free s&h ,,,,,,,,,,,, $50 minimum
22:59 katsmeow-afk and the B type is too fat, i'd haveto grind it down
23:03 katsmeow-afk crap, the hub dia is 1.25 , i'll haveto grind that down too
23:03 katsmeow-afk that's a fat hub for only 10 teeth
23:25 katsmeow-afk http://electricscooterparts.com/motors36volt.html
23:34 katsmeow-afk http://www.motorparts4less.com/product_info.php?products_id=1413
23:35 katsmeow-afk does not say what size axle it fits, i sent email
23:37 katsmeow-afk heh : http://static.electricbike.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/SprocketBig.jpg