#garfield Logs

Nov 03 2013

00:11 tsmeow has trouble sync'ing with .
01:22 rue_house pool.ntp.org
01:23 tsmeow-afk has a manual time sync tool and winxp has an autosync
01:31 katsmeow-afk [01:11] <katsmeow-afk> why are so many boats white?
01:31 katsmeow-afk [01:11] <katsmeow-afk> is it only so they are cooler?
01:31 katsmeow-afk [01:12] <katsmeow-afk> then why aren't DS and FP white?
01:31 katsmeow-afk [01:12] <katsmeow-afk> why are *ships* all NOT white?
01:31 katsmeow-afk DS and FP are towers
01:33 katsmeow-afk http://floatliving.com/images/vessels/FP-lookupc.jpg
01:42 katsmeow-afk http://pool.ntp.org/ has a pic saying "steelcabana" , what's that?
01:43 katsmeow-afk <title>steelcabana security</title>
01:43 katsmeow-afk </head>
01:43 katsmeow-afk <body>
01:43 katsmeow-afk <br><br><br><center><img src="steelcabana.png"></center>
01:44 katsmeow-afk Server not found
01:44 katsmeow-afk Firefox can't find the server at www.pool.ntp.org.
02:28 katsmeow-afk http://www.simplifiedbuilding.com/store/components/kee-klamp.html
08:25 katsmeow-afk mouwe
08:37 katsmeow-afk nues phlash:
08:37 katsmeow-afk Range anxiety has become a hot topic with the advent of the modern electric car, but hundreds of Americans still run out of good old fashioned gasoline every day.
08:37 katsmeow-afk Last year alone AAA received over 600,000 calls from members stuck on the side of the road dealing with the hassle of an empty tank, many in an unsafe situation.
08:44 Tom_itx i woke up today and just can't find it anywhere
08:44 katsmeow-afk can't find what, exactly?
08:45 Tom_itx them actually
08:45 katsmeow-afk oh
08:46 Tom_itx those 60 min that just dissappeared
08:46 katsmeow-afk i am still defuddled over that, will progress to confused when i get more data
08:46 Tom_itx i didn't ask for them to begin with
08:48 katsmeow-afk i am not sure you *got* them, i think they were *taken*, but i see conflicting reports, so maybe it's a "time redistribution" thing
08:51 katsmeow-afk parse error: " Furthermore, SSNs are mean't to protect the CVBG from enemy subs"
08:54 Tom_itx i never got to see
08:54 katsmeow-afk see what?
08:55 Tom_itx when dinner is done with, i'll go up and play with them and take pics
08:56 katsmeow-afk oh, i passed out asleep, tired
08:56 katsmeow-afk i need to quit eating, i think food causes sleep
08:56 Tom_itx certain food does
08:56 katsmeow-afk camera is up there, motor, housing, bearing, wheel, chain, etc,, i am down here
09:00 katsmeow-afk been brain storming on how to turn a potential cost/weight/complexity hit into an advantage: the double geardown in a tiny space by making it two-speed transmission
09:03 katsmeow-afk Harborfreight sells a large 1/2 drive drill for ~$100 with a 2-speed, according to the datasheets it has either gobs of rpm or gobs of wrist-breaking torque, which would make it ideal for carrying heavy payloads in hilly terrain
09:03 katsmeow-afk but, it's $100 each, Chinese, tiny gears, 120v, and not particularly small
09:04 Tom_itx i used one of their angle drills once and the gear stripped
09:04 Tom_itx drilling wood
09:05 katsmeow-afk i used a hefty hammer drill, without hammering, one a 1/4 bit, stripped the gear before i got the first hole drilled
09:06 katsmeow-afk but, the idea of the small, less pricey motor, that's commonly available, and a 2-speed shift, seems sound
09:12 Tom_itx china has a way of making anything unsound
09:12 katsmeow-afk if i send a bot up (literally up) the driveway to get the mail, i don't want it moving as slowly coming back down (literally down) .... there's maybe 30ft of elevation differnce twen front door and mailbox, and 18ft difefrence tween house front vs back doors
09:14 Tom_itx attach the mail box to it
09:14 katsmeow-afk i considered that too, but that would leave a lot of pricey stuff on the side of the road for 6 hours per day
09:23 katsmeow-afk of course, if some yahoo drove up in a pickup truck to steal my robot mailbox, and the robot could disassemble the truck and bring me the pieces, that would interest me
09:24 katsmeow-afk "some guys drove up in a truck, and after a few minutes they ran away, leaving us all these truck parts!"
09:28 katsmeow-afk "sorry, office, i wasn't up there to witness anything, the mainbot came down and simply said two guys delivered these parts"
09:32 katsmeow-afk my computer is getting smarter: i popped up a jpg ini browser from online site, go to save the image, Exploder opens the /water/ dir ....... the pic is of otec floating in water
09:35 katsmeow-afk http://a57.foxnews.com/global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/Scitech/660/370/HANDIE.jpg
09:35 katsmeow-afk wierd, it tried to save that pic under /F-16/
09:37 katsmeow-afk rue, your small robot arm, with upgrades : http://a57.foxnews.com/global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/Scitech/660/516/DENSO.jpg
09:37 katsmeow-afk basically, they put "clothes" on it and taught it to sew, that way they can charge $1 million each
09:41 katsmeow-afk http://www.jamesdysonaward.org/FileHandler.ashx?Data=3cKb%2faZpGdrr5G%2bUxm8hNv8qRudX%2bux0O%2btLXXyl1L0%3d
10:08 katsmeow-afk The first test of the Zeus B took place in May 1961, and on 14 December a Zeus passed within 100 feet (30 m) of a Nike Hercules being used as a test target <<== i remember watching that
10:09 katsmeow-afk The site took up a considerable amount of the empty land to the north side of the airfield. <<== which was about 4 acres, the airport was larger than the missile site
10:12 katsmeow-afk the Sprint missile, which grew out of the Nike program, shot up so fast most humans with a camera could not follow it, and before it was heatproofed against air friction, it would melt it's own skin off before it reached altitude
10:12 katsmeow-afk iirc, it typically accel'd at 65G, up
12:01 tsmeow-afk cusses as she unloads pics of motor from ca
12:20 katsmeow-afk http://designerthinking.com/B&S_starter.html#new
12:24 katsmeow-afk there had to have been a gravity anomoly at the vise when i did the previous pics, because i had the weight of the whole motor sitting on itself, but apparently, gravity was not enough to hold the frame down, so it rose up and made the bearing look like it was lower down in the frame
12:25 tsmeow-afk cusses some
12:26 katsmeow-afk i can still use those endbells by removing the lip in the bearing hole, but it's not optimal, for sure
12:29 katsmeow-afk something that is *very* noticable now that's not on the oem units: this motor exhibits strong cogging when manually turned with this new endbell
13:03 m_itx just did what he was
13:03 katsmeow-afk and Tom did it very well, too
13:03 Tom_itx i presume the cogging is a good thing?
13:04 katsmeow-afk yeas, indicates strong magnetic coupling between stator and rotor
13:05 katsmeow-afk all your better non-skewed rotor with close tolerances tot he stator field will exhibit this, like steppers do, for instance
13:06 Tom_itx why would the cogging be any different before or after?
13:06 katsmeow-afk lack of friction in the bearing
13:07 Tom_itx so how much higher is the bearing over the housing now?
13:07 katsmeow-afk the oem starters, even new ones, have so much friction the cogging is irrelavant
13:08 katsmeow-afk looks like .060 - .10
13:08 katsmeow-afk it's more than the lip thickness :-(
13:08 Tom_itx +-.040 is quite a bit
13:09 katsmeow-afk yeas, i cannot say what happened, the pictured aren't lying, they show what i saw here
13:09 m_itx waits for better dimens
13:10 katsmeow-afk it's not like i could install the bolts while the oem end bell was off, there would be nothing to put the bolts into
13:11 katsmeow-afk next measuring will be done with an abundance of visegrips and clamps in use
13:11 m_itx knows the first one of anything isn't gonna be the final de
13:13 katsmeow-afk it could have been, happened before, i can still grind out the lip and continue , some, and this does prove the motor is capable of more than it's given credit for
13:14 katsmeow-afk i need to go do outside things while the sun is shining, bll
13:14 katsmeow-afk err, bbl
13:15 Tom_itx measure the gap in the endbell, that should give you what you need
16:33 tsmeow-afk has been welding,, and it's surprising how much fun there is in seeing projects get moving again, and things taking form, dreams becoming reality, laying the groundwork for a new life,,, <cough> sorry, got carried
16:34 katsmeow-afk and how much more solid little pieces of steel are when all welded together
16:35 Tom_itx you seem happy for the moment... what can i do about that?
16:36 katsmeow-afk offer to make me more end bells and stuff?
16:37 katsmeow-afk what time are we using now? wasn't it supposed to save us an hour to use at the end of th eday? then why is sundown scheduled for 5pm today?
16:38 Tom_itx you are no longer saving time, you are wasting it
16:38 katsmeow-afk funny, i thought i was sgetting more done today then yesterday
16:39 Tom_itx i did get a batch of programmers done
16:40 katsmeow-afk need 360 pcs of 1.75 x 1.75 heatsink?
16:40 Tom_itx no
16:40 katsmeow-afk need 20 of them?
16:40 Tom_itx not really
16:41 tsmeow-afk
16:42 katsmeow-afk the bid on the 360 now is $5.50
16:44 katsmeow-afk final price on them has been all over the board :
16:44 katsmeow-afk http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=TIGER+A80-0000308-00L&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&LH_Complete=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=200&_fpos=&_fsct=&LH_SALE_CURRENCY=0&_sop=10&_dmd=1&_ipg=200
16:50 katsmeow-afk i asked him to break a box that wasn't on ebay yet, he just short of threw a fit, i toldd him nevermind i'd go buy some from china, and i did
16:52 katsmeow-afk but it is a good buy if you need to mount 1 or 2 transistors, 5-10watts, even at $50 it's 14 cents per heatsink
16:52 katsmeow-afk but i need to buy steel and aluminum end bells and sprockets and shoes and pants and other practical things right now
16:53 katsmeow-afk ok, back outside to welding
17:54 katsmeow-afk it's too dark outside
17:56 katsmeow-afk if i remove all the washers on the rotor, and push the bushing out of the other end bell, it just about fits, except for not being able to install the brushes
17:57 katsmeow-afk but i have it in the benchvise down hee now, and have clamps on it for re-measuring
17:59 Tom_itx yeah you may need brushes for it to work properly
18:07 katsmeow-afk hmmm
18:31 katsmeow-afk it spins : http://designerthinking.com/B&S_starter.html#new
18:31 katsmeow-afk the wire is .090
18:33 katsmeow-afk it could be thinner, but it's what i grabbed to try it, and the axial play in the shaft is so little, under .010, i am not worried about it until the other end has a bearing in it, and then i'll just insert a wavey washer
18:34 katsmeow-afk the wire is steel
18:34 katsmeow-afk clothes hanger
18:35 tsmeow-afk dances about the cha
18:54 katsmeow-afk can i hear opinions on how short i should trim that shaft? i am thinking just 1/8 sticking out of the sprocket
19:10 katsmeow-afk Microsoft Admits Windows 8.1 Update May Bork Your Mouse, Promises a Fix
19:16 katsmeow-afk Danish conglomerate Maersk, for instance, one of the biggest shipping companies, just rolled out the biggest ships ever. The Triple-E class vessels are 1,312 feet (400 meters) long, 194 feet (60 meters) wide, and weigh 55,000 pounds (25,000 kilograms) when empty.
19:18 Tom_itx so move the bearing out .090"?
19:18 katsmeow-afk move the whole bell out .090 , make the flange on the OD .090 thicker
19:19 katsmeow-afk that's essentially what i did
19:19 Tom_itx uh huh
19:19 Tom_itx i think it's good to leave the inner lip
19:19 katsmeow-afk i like the bearing flange you made, and the plate as is is just the thickness to hold the bearing properly
19:20 Tom_itx so keep the .375 overall and fatten up the outter lip by .090"
19:20 Tom_itx still gives it enough flange to mount to the motor
19:20 katsmeow-afk yeas, .210 will still drop into the frame
19:23 Tom_itx shower revived me a bit
19:23 katsmeow-afk i am thinking of dinner, altho i ate dinner yesterday too
19:24 tsmeow-afk checks somet
19:25 katsmeow-afk yeas, annother change request : the 2.835 OD, make 2.840
19:26 katsmeow-afk i cannot mic the frame ID, it's not actually round
19:26 Tom_itx too sloppy a fit?
19:27 katsmeow-afk but the 2.835 is a easy drop-in , and it could tolerate being a slip-fit or slight tap-in
19:31 Tom_itx so the flange instead of .065" should be .155?
19:33 katsmeow-afk i am reading the outside flange as .078 thick
19:33 Tom_itx what about the inner one?
19:33 Tom_itx the outer one was supposed to be .065 by the solidworks drawing i did
19:34 Tom_itx the inner flange and the outer flange should have been on the same plane
19:34 Tom_itx now the outer one is moving by .090
19:35 Tom_itx and the outer diameter is moving to 2.840
19:35 katsmeow-afk it's .305 deep on .379, so... .074
19:36 Tom_itx was supposed to be .310
19:36 Tom_itx and .375
19:36 Tom_itx good no tolerance callouts were made :D
19:36 katsmeow-afk i checked several places
19:37 katsmeow-afk it's just not that critical ;-)
19:37 Tom_itx it just needs to move .090 from where it is
19:37 katsmeow-afk .090 thicker, yeas sir
19:38 Tom_itx and grow .005
19:38 katsmeow-afk correct
19:39 katsmeow-afk just to close up some slop in the frame, you did get it right according to the oem bell, which is also slack in the frame
19:42 tsmeow-afk just noticed the plastic injection molded end bell that holds the brushes is cracked under both frame bolts, on the inside, where tightening the bolts bent the plastic concave into the f
19:43 Tom_itx that might change things
19:43 katsmeow-afk this no doubt contributes to friction when those bushings are mashed into the rotor
19:44 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/kat/Bellhousing7.jpg
19:45 katsmeow-afk yeas
19:45 katsmeow-afk i see no measurements, but it looks correct
19:46 katsmeow-afk hold........
19:47 katsmeow-afk this plastic is poor QC, but it confirms 2.840
19:56 katsmeow-afk Tom, can you also make me a test/alignment disk with slightly different measurements?
19:57 katsmeow-afk a plain disk, no flanges, 2.840 OD and 1.260 ID ?
19:57 katsmeow-afk can be 1/8 out to .3xx thick
19:58 katsmeow-afk thi sis to drop into the frame around the cummutator to hold that end of the rotor while i make adjustments to keep the plastic oem bell-brush-holder and add ball bearing mount
20:04 katsmeow-afk if i am real lucky, thre might be enough sturdy plastic to mount the ball bearing just as it now holds the bushing
20:05 katsmeow-afk the boss where the bushing is in, is much thicker than the ball bearing, but the boss tapers thickness as it gets farther from the shaft
20:16 katsmeow-afk i cannot get calipers into the various places i need t measure, but it looks like wher the bearing will sit is only 0.2 inches, but the R6 bearing is .280 , so it's unlikely i can mod the plastic end bell to securely hold the R6 long term
20:17 tsmeow-afk goes off to wash her paws and make a bite t
20:47 Tom_itx top bearing is R8 bottom bearing is R6?
20:48 katsmeow-afk correct
20:49 katsmeow-afk i took a dremel and a rat file to the plastic, it is *very* soft, i have the R6 mounted
20:50 katsmeow-afk there's nothing holding it tho, it's going to need something besides the plastic to hold it
20:50 katsmeow-afk but at least i can make measurements off the bearing now, over the brush holder assy
20:52 Tom_itx more pics would be in order
20:57 katsmeow-afk yeas
20:57 katsmeow-afk hold on the test/alignment disk unles you already started
20:58 tsmeow-afk has been dremeling, filing, and not had dinner
21:07 katsmeow-afk the bearing seat will need to extend into the hole i can cut into the bursh holders assy
21:07 katsmeow-afk taking pics
21:12 katsmeow-afk getting pics intp uter
21:34 katsmeow-afk updateing the html, 3 pics doc'd with measurements
21:40 katsmeow-afk uploading
21:41 tsmeow-afk ponders making it a 2nd page ins
21:43 katsmeow-afk Tom : http://designerthinking.com/B&S_starter2.html
21:44 katsmeow-afk yeas, the hole is overbored , the purpose was more to make a hole than mount the bearing, the plastic is too flimsy to hold the bearing
21:44 katsmeow-afk i secured the rotor in the frame with shims, placed bearing, then dremeled the end bell till it fit over the bearing
21:46 katsmeow-afk the green and the red circles are how to mount the aluminum to the oem end bell
21:47 katsmeow-afk i referenced the top of the plastic end bell off the frame, the bottom of the bearing off the frame, and the oem thru bolts off the frame (but those can be shimmed flush)
21:49 katsmeow-afk the last pic shows the bearing properly protruding thru the plastic , altho the exact placement in that pic isn't exact
21:54 rue_shop2 'screw hole punch"
21:55 Tom_itx that one looks like a bugger to make
21:56 katsmeow-afk it may not be, i am drawing it now
21:57 katsmeow-afk you turn one face anyhow, right? this wil be a more complex face turning
22:00 katsmeow-afk cool, it works in 3/8 thick alum
22:10 katsmeow-afk got it, taking pic and uploading
22:16 katsmeow-afk http://designerthinking.com/B&S_starter2.html
22:16 katsmeow-afk bottom pic
22:16 katsmeow-afk that's cross-section view
22:17 Tom_itx 1" clearance hole?
22:17 Tom_itx like the previous end
22:17 Tom_itx bearing seat the same plane as the outter seat against the plastic?
22:18 katsmeow-afk and no
22:18 Tom_itx yeah i see now
22:19 katsmeow-afk 1" hole and the R6 will fall thru
22:19 katsmeow-afk 3/4 clearance is ok
22:19 Tom_itx what's the .200? the bearing depth?
22:20 Tom_itx and .375 overall
22:20 katsmeow-afk the .200 typo, is bearing thickness, .280
22:20 katsmeow-afk or .275 , not critical
22:21 katsmeow-afk the disk ends up being only ~.100 thick, is that a problem?
22:21 Tom_itx so the inner and outer depth can be the same
22:21 Tom_itx .275"
22:21 katsmeow-afk yeas
22:21 katsmeow-afk correct
22:22 Tom_itx needs some diameters now
22:22 katsmeow-afk your 3" dia stock, the rest is the R6 bearing
22:23 katsmeow-afk the bolt-holes make 1/8, center tween bearing framework and the frame ID ---- 2.840
22:23 katsmeow-afk the green corcled areas are same placement as the other enc
22:23 katsmeow-afk end
22:24 Tom_itx don't have any R6 that i'm aware of
22:24 katsmeow-afk i can shave/saw/file the plastic flat
22:25 Tom_itx maybe i do in the garage
22:25 Tom_itx i dunno
22:25 katsmeow-afk R6 = .875 OD , .375 ID , .280 thick
22:26 katsmeow-afk i can send you an R6 if you need it for size
22:27 katsmeow-afk you see, it turned out to be a .100 disk with a .275 bearing seat on one face, and 4 bolt holes :-)
22:27 katsmeow-afk ooohhh
22:28 katsmeow-afk arg
22:28 katsmeow-afk the .200 is the thickness of the seat walls
22:28 tsmeow-afk has not eaten snce this mor
22:28 Tom_itx ok apparently i have R6
22:28 katsmeow-afk reheated dinner 3x , scarfing down a plain burger now, cold again too
22:30 Tom_itx S3KDD
22:30 Tom_itx must be the same as R6
22:30 katsmeow-afk the pic of the inside of the oem end bell, the one immeadiately above the dimension sketch, shows the bearing in the inside, the .200 bearing seat walls hasto fit inside that center depression, i do not want to remove that circular ring there
22:31 Tom_itx so the bearing floor is .200 and the outter flat is .275
22:31 katsmeow-afk since the seat protrudes into that space, the hole i make in the plastic to clear the aluminum canot be bigger than the bearing plus ~.420
22:31 katsmeow-afk no
22:32 Tom_itx i'll wait for all critical dimensions
22:32 katsmeow-afk see where the .200 is on both sides of the bearing?
22:32 Tom_itx yes
22:32 katsmeow-afk that is how *thick* that piece is
22:32 Tom_itx that points to the outter edges of the material
22:32 Tom_itx oh diameter wise
22:32 katsmeow-afk nononono
22:33 katsmeow-afk those arrows pertainto the 3/8 written above the arrows
22:33 Tom_itx .875 + .200 ?
22:33 katsmeow-afk correct
22:33 katsmeow-afk no
22:33 Tom_itx for the outter diameter of the boss
22:33 katsmeow-afk AARRG
22:33 katsmeow-afk .875 (the bearing), plus .200 on each side
22:33 Tom_itx so .875 + .400 for the diameter of the boss
22:34 katsmeow-afk the .200 is a "tube wall" the bearing sits in
22:34 katsmeow-afk correct! :-)
22:34 Tom_itx i know
22:35 Tom_itx .875 x 1.275" x .275 tall
22:35 katsmeow-afk works for me
22:35 katsmeow-afk on a .100 disk
22:36 Tom_itx same 3" material
22:36 katsmeow-afk in your opinion, is the .100 going to bea problem?
22:36 katsmeow-afk yeas, same 3" material
22:36 Tom_itx why do i care about the .100 ?
22:36 katsmeow-afk i dunno, hence i was asking
22:36 Tom_itx it's just another dimension
22:37 katsmeow-afk can you chuck it int he lathe without deforming, etc etc
22:37 katsmeow-afk these things i dunno
22:37 Tom_itx hide and watch
22:37 katsmeow-afk ok, heh
22:37 Tom_itx ok one more, the 'clearance hole' diameter
22:37 katsmeow-afk it can be thicker, if you like, the .100 isn't critical
22:37 Tom_itx .375 + .050 ?
22:38 Tom_itx .375 + .100 ?
22:38 katsmeow-afk .050 won't clear the inner race
22:38 katsmeow-afk .075 ?
22:38 katsmeow-afk err
22:39 katsmeow-afk .75o ?
22:39 katsmeow-afk 0
22:39 Tom_itx .500 should
22:39 tsmeow-afk puts the sammich
22:39 Tom_itx it'll be .500
22:39 katsmeow-afk the inner race is .550 dia
22:40 katsmeow-afk i have an idea, might make the right words for me: you know how you left a bearing set at the end of the bore on the other end? make a seat like that :-)
22:40 m_itx goes to s
22:40 katsmeow-afk so the bearing won't fall out
22:40 Tom_itx i'll fix it
22:41 katsmeow-afk i wanna believe that the 4 bolts will hold the disk ok, how you you feel about that? there's essentially no load there but the brushes and any vibration
22:42 Tom_itx time will tell
22:42 tsmeow-afk can epoxy the bolts thru the plastic, help them be one with each o
22:43 katsmeow-afk it's really soft plastic, any pressure on the rat file and it went into it like a saw
22:43 katsmeow-afk anyhoo, the sketch is to scale vertically, but not horizontally
22:45 katsmeow-afk i was afraid this brush end would be terrifically complex, but it looks simple in concept
22:45 katsmeow-afk you'll have a lot of swarf left over
22:52 katsmeow-afk instead of ears at one end, i may make amount more like ye olde saddle mounts : http://tinyurl.com/kqnnr94
22:53 katsmeow-afk shorter, less standoffish, compack, stroger
22:53 katsmeow-afk stronger