#garfield Logs
Sep 07 2013
#garfield Calendar
00:48 katsmeow-afk i wish i knew if i could join #robotics yet
00:50 rue_house if paypal dosn't go thru right away, close the page, go back to your ebay bought items list, reclick pay-now
00:50 rue_house I have to do it all the time
00:51 katsmeow-afk k
00:51 katsmeow-afk but i did that a few months ago, eventually i sent cash to the seller
00:52 katsmeow-afk paypal said i looked like i was hacking my account to their computers, so they refused to pay from balance or instant transfer or echeck
00:54 rue_house I remember you saying you were having paypal troubles
00:59 katsmeow-afk it's stupid if there is money in checking, AND i have paid the monthly bill plus some, that paypal won't let me pay a seller
00:59 katsmeow-afk but it's like sending an item to someone, you have no options
01:01 katsmeow-afk i have tried several times to get people together to do hand-offs of stuff, like you with any electronics club over the border, me with someone in Tennasee, or someone in Arkansas with someone in Oklahoma and Tx,,, or Ontario and Michigan, but no one will cooperate
01:02 katsmeow-afk there was a TREMENDOUS deal in Canadia, just across the bridge, and it was such a good deal that if 10 people got together to pay the same paypal fees and 1/2 the ups shipping,
01:02 katsmeow-afk someone could piick up the items and hand-deliver them
01:02 katsmeow-afk and everyone would save money
01:03 katsmeow-afk instead, 3/4 of the peole said shipping was too muc, backed out, 20% items sold and were ups'd, the rest, afaik, were landfilled
01:04 katsmeow-afk working electronics landfilled because the shipping cost was too much
01:04 rue_house in a month I'm gonna order a set of vac motors
01:05 rue_house I dont know if I shold stay up a bit and work on some things I want to do or go to sleep
01:05 rue_house how are sleeping pills bad for a person?
01:06 katsmeow-afk addiction, lack of real rem sleep, oversleeping, lag-effects the next day, etc
01:06 katsmeow-afk if you have work tomorrow, sleep
01:06 rue_house hmm
01:07 katsmeow-afk surely there is someone in http://goo.gl/maps/p7Fwf that can recieve stuff for cheap carry-into Canadia
01:07 rue_house one of the guys I know has a dropbox on the other side
01:08 rue_house goes in one and a while to pick stuff up
01:08 katsmeow-afk then wtf don't you use it?
01:08 rue_house I'v never set that up with him
01:08 rue_house I think I'll shut down the shop and code for a while
01:08 rue_house tommorow morning I need to clean up the shop good beofre robotics
01:08 rue_house if thats possable
01:09 katsmeow-afk clean it u[p now if you cannot sleep
01:09 rue_house I'd rather sit here and code myself to sleep
01:10 tsmeow-afk ponders parking a boat at Buccaneer Bay Provincial Park for 6 mo
01:11 Lola8088 Thormanby Isl. is not very well sheltered. Even tho it looks like it
01:13 Lola8088 Also, it's very popular and tourists are rude. Better to anchor in porpoise bay. But anywhere populated, live abords aren't really accepted.
01:21 katsmeow-afk rue, can i reverse bias a IRFZ44 by ~20 volts?
01:22 rue_house supposadly, yes
01:23 katsmeow-afk as long as i don't turn it on, right?
01:24 rue_house I dont remember is 20V is the max breakdown
01:24 rue_house max vs abs max ya know
01:24 katsmeow-afk umm
01:25 rue_house oh 20V is the abs max
01:26 katsmeow-afk it's just too easy to use 3 caps and a few fets to convert ($8) 19v@3.5a into 5v@10a
01:27 katsmeow-afk for powering gobs of servoes, for instance
01:27 rue_house that circuit has me curious
01:27 rue_house I'm use a tl494
01:28 katsmeow-afk what circuit?
01:28 rue_house e 3 caps and a few fets to convert (
01:28 katsmeow-afk oh
01:28 katsmeow-afk halving voltage is only 3 fets and 2 caps
01:29 katsmeow-afk well, 4, the disconnect fet
01:29 rue_house ?
01:29 tsmeow-afk d
01:29 rue_house 50% duty osc + ?
01:31 katsmeow-afk uploading
01:32 katsmeow-afk ...waiting...
01:33 katsmeow-afk ...waiting...
01:33 tsmeow-afk power cycles the camera...
01:38 katsmeow-afk http://designerthinking.com/IMG_2053.jpg
01:39 katsmeow-afk ideally, use two labled disconnect, and two of the rest of the circuit, and drive them 2-phase
01:39 katsmeow-afk and an output cap
01:39 rue_house cute
01:39 katsmeow-afk yeas, basically it's silly simple
01:39 rue_house fet stabalized capacitor voltage divider
01:40 katsmeow-afk the first not-A cycle the caps are frced equal
01:40 katsmeow-afk it can be made real complicated, of course
01:41 katsmeow-afk like instead of one fet tween the caps, use to connected to a solid 1/2 vcc
01:41 katsmeow-afk you can also use the top cap as the main output cap, so in a 2-phase circuit, you use 2 less caps
01:42 katsmeow-afk ideally, you use no p-chan fets
01:43 katsmeow-afk a 2-phase switcher can be done with only 3 caps, plus the input cap to even the load on whatever is supplying the 19v, 18v, 15v, 14v, etc
01:44 rue_house I'v taken a filter inductor in centretap mode and used a 7414 50% osc to doubel voltage
01:44 tsmeow-afk
01:45 katsmeow-afk i have many pounds of caps, i have no 60w inductors
01:45 rue_house no scrap pc power suppplies?
01:45 rue_house 150W min core
01:45 rue_house :) bit of winding req'd
01:45 katsmeow-afk i have the ones that are Sparkle brand, i don't thinkt hey are 60w even
01:45 rue_house 800 strands, 1 turn
01:46 katsmeow-afk 800 strands? <cough>
01:46 rue_house I'm sure the core can handle 60
01:46 rue_house it is pushpull right?
01:46 rue_house some of the really small ones are flyback
01:46 katsmeow-afk i dunno
01:46 rue_house two driver transistors?
01:46 katsmeow-afk don't remember
01:47 rue_house they use caps as a votlage divider, the winding goes from that to the common on the transistors, one pulls up, the other pulls down
01:47 rue_house sound familiar?
01:48 katsmeow-afk rue, i have not looked at them in 3 yrs or more
01:48 rue_house yo have some dead ones dot you?
01:48 rue_house why dont you putz with them for the night
01:49 rue_house a bedside project
01:49 katsmeow-afk prolly some dead ones, and the case of ones almost guaranteed to die when plugged in
01:49 rue_house :) I sorted my avr projects into avr model folders
01:49 katsmeow-afk i have stuff to do
01:54 katsmeow-afk hmm, this is saturday
01:57 rue_house I was looking at your code for doing the serial to the displays
01:57 rue_house with the micro reading adc and shifting data into displays on shift registers
01:58 rue_house you got all shifty on that project and I lost direction
01:58 katsmeow-afk i wrote the code?
01:59 rue_house I wrote you code
01:59 katsmeow-afk <rue_house> you got all shifty
01:59 rue_house but the design of the hardware kept changing, I didn't get a clear idea of what the last hardware design looked like
02:00 rue_house it went from avrs shifting data into shift registers, then parallel or somehting then other avrs
02:00 rue_house origionally it was just shifting segments, but then it was real numbers
02:01 katsmeow-afk well, in keeping the number of optocouplers down, i was thinking one to be clock to tell the charger to shift out the data now into the 2nd opto
02:01 katsmeow-afk to keep it simple, one set of optos per adc
02:01 katsmeow-afk if an avr is used to do two adc, then use two sets of optos
02:02 rue_house TLC5940
02:02 katsmeow-afk saves trying to find out what the data is from
02:02 katsmeow-afk why do i want a dot driver?
02:02 rue_house yup
02:02 rue_house its for me
02:02 rue_house :)
02:02 katsmeow-afk o
02:03 rue_house its actually a 16ch pwm in disguise
02:04 katsmeow-afk i have ~300 sinlge optos of unknown id-number, 100 H11AA1 (?), and 200 PC817
02:04 rue_house pc817 is known to me
02:05 katsmeow-afk k
02:05 rue_house I have some uncut, to form 4 channel optos
02:05 katsmeow-afk they are all real slow, so should be fine as a battery charger data feed
02:05 rue_house I wonder what h11aa1 is
02:05 rue_house not on digchip?
02:06 rue_house 4 or 6 pin?
02:06 katsmeow-afk 6
02:06 rue_house black? white?
02:06 katsmeow-afk not in front of me atm
02:06 rue_house huh
02:07 katsmeow-afk H11AA1 6-Pin DIP Optoisolators AC Input/Transistor Output
02:07 rue_house oo
02:07 katsmeow-afk http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/3037/MOTOROLA/H11AA1.html
02:07 rue_house backback leds
02:08 rue_house are the 817's cut 4 pin?
02:08 katsmeow-afk yeas
02:09 rue_house I saw a cute trick for linear optos
02:09 rue_house oh cant remmeber how it worked now
02:10 rue_house something about using the current on either side to balanace out somehow
02:11 katsmeow-afk null the differences tween them, can't put much faith in that one,, two with *different* error fighting each other?
02:12 katsmeow-afk it was for linearising an opto for analog, iirc
02:12 rue_house given same optos, it looked pretty good
02:12 rue_house yea, I imagine the linear range is pretty small too
02:12 rue_house definitly want agc on that
02:13 katsmeow-afk or send pwm, because as the opto ages it could get wierd ont he analog
02:14 rue_house oo PLL
02:14 rue_house 2x4046?
02:15 rue_house must be a better way
02:15 rue_house 555 linear enough?
02:15 rue_house oh 555+567?
02:15 rue_house or two 567
02:15 katsmeow-afk hmm, the cable box optos look like 817A
02:16 rue_house I have lots from industrial stuff
02:17 katsmeow-afk 567 was linear enough for medium-fi audio
02:17 rue_house 4046 is mjuch better than 567 isn't it?
02:17 katsmeow-afk it starts flaking out the higher the freq, it's 1960's design, came out int he early 1970's
02:17 rue_house has the better lock modes
02:17 katsmeow-afk i have not use the 4067
02:17 katsmeow-afk er 4046
02:18 rue_house they used it in the feedback course at tech school
02:18 rue_house it was one of the few courses I learned anything in
02:18 katsmeow-afk any stable vfo and a flipflop can be used
02:18 rue_house F->V via flipflop?
02:19 katsmeow-afk sorta
02:19 rue_house dont recall how those 1 bit adc/dacs work
02:19 rue_house delta sigma or something
02:19 katsmeow-afk the ff determines if the incoming pulse is too early or late, which alters the freq adjust voltage
02:19 rue_house ah ye
02:19 rue_house D flipflop
02:19 rue_house +monostable
02:20 katsmeow-afk yeas, use the R and S inputs on a 7474
02:20 rue_house I wrote one line of code
02:20 rue_house my brain is fried
02:21 katsmeow-afk the osc will need to try and set the average of the ff to equal Q/Q, and you get the audio off the vfo control pin
02:21 rue_house I thnk I want this code on an 8051 anyhow
02:21 katsmeow-afk 8051 is way too big for a battery charger
02:22 rue_house I have 2 robot that need loop controllers with pwm output
02:22 katsmeow-afk AT90S4414 is an 8080 someting, isn't it?
02:22 rue_house think a 40Mhz 8051 can do 8 PID loops?
02:22 rue_house dont think so
02:23 tsmeow-afk s
02:23 katsmeow-afk i need to be cutting steel, etc
02:23 rue_house and I'm gonna go to sleep
02:23 katsmeow-afk ttyt
02:23 katsmeow-afk or,, later today
02:39 katsmeow-afk http://designerthinking.com/IMG_2054.jpg
02:40 katsmeow-afk using the top cap that way means it's possible for the output to be at full input on the first A pulse, but should always be 1/3 vcc input after the first B pulse
02:47 katsmeow-afk http://designerthinking.com/IMG_2055.jpg <<== fet driver
02:48 katsmeow-afk needs misc stuff
02:49 katsmeow-afk but that's the basic circuit floating around in my head
02:53 katsmeow-afk the tricks i did over the conventional is to use only N-chan, use no diodes, and if you build it in 2-phase (you should), you can drive phase2-A with phase1-B and vice versa
02:55 katsmeow-afk and the 1000u-per-amp "rule" at 120hz scales with freq (ignoring cap esr for the moment), so you need 1/2 the cap at 240hz, 1/4 the cap at 500hz, 1/8 the cap at 1khz, etc,,,, as long as the esr of the cap doesn't start working agianst you
02:56 katsmeow-afk for 19v, i'd use all 25v caps unless you add an forced equaliser circuit, because they won't be equalised untill the first B pulse
03:01 katsmeow-afk 120vac = 160vpeak / 4 = 40vdc ; 120vac = -160vpeak / 4 = -40vdc ; +40 and -40 to H-bridge audio power amp ; presto : gobs of power in a tiny pack at weighs nothing and uses cheap TIP35/36 transistors
03:03 katsmeow-afk 400w rms into 8 ohms, uses 4 transistors, no power transformer, 4 10,000u 50v caps, a handfull of IRF540s or so
03:03 katsmeow-afk a simpler /2 would be fine too if you didn't need it ground-referenced
03:04 tsmeow-afk adjust the numbers and adds disclai
03:04 katsmeow-afk but you get the point
03:08 katsmeow-afk ps: it's easy to do voltage equalisation forcing if the charge fets are bipolars and you use a more complicated drive circuit
03:08 katsmeow-afk but, you loose output volts with bipolars
07:10 katsmeow-afk if you need 5v output, you may wanna regulate it and use a diode to prevent reverse current, so you cannot waste much in the switching and aim for 6v
07:13 katsmeow-afk 19 / 3 = 6.333 , and the 19v psu is going to drop some, you'll have 1 volt to deal with a diode, current sense, and voltage regulation
07:14 katsmeow-afk 14v /2 is 7v, gives you a lil more headroom, but not if you use a bipolar to force the volts to divide evenly on the two caps
07:15 katsmeow-afk note i did not draw in the polarities of the fets on any schematic, and the correct polarity may not be obvious
07:18 katsmeow-afk a 2phase /2 is 8 fets and 3 caps, /3 is 14 fets and 5 caps , you get 50% more current with the /3 , and you waste less in heat because the headroom is down by 3v
07:18 katsmeow-afk so it's a tossup/yourchoice sorta thing
07:28 katsmeow-afk AC 100-240V Adapter DC 12V 5A 60W Power Supply for Led Strip Light US EU AU UK $10 free s&h /2 = 6v @ 10amps
07:41 katsmeow-afk http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?&_nkw=%2212v%22+%225a%22+adapter&_sacat=0&_from=R40 <<== you may notice some fraudulent listings ,, but 12v /2 = 6v
10:58 rue_house econd chance listing, so thy tried to drive the price up by bidding on it themself and they won?
14:26 katsmeow-afk important news for Tiggr that you just don't find everywhere : ........... Since people, unlike mice, don't tend to eat each other's droppings, ............
14:29 katsmeow-afk "Timid mice became aggressive AFTER scientists grabbed them from their cage and cut their guts open and transplanted parts from other mice inside them? ? Amazing. But I must add. Just because mice didn't like it is no indication that humans wouldn't just love this done to them. "
14:37 tsmeow-afk notes that if you wanted to study ducks flying, in the laboratory, you'd need a transparent duct, a fan in the duct, and you'd have a ducted fan and a fanned
14:49 Lola8088
14:52 rue_house hehehee
15:11 katsmeow-afk yeow, 10000 PCS SIEMENS C3216C0G1H152JT0Y9N for 99 cents?
15:14 katsmeow-afk "W25P010A support 2T/2T mode whcih will delay one cycle data output"
15:20 katsmeow-afk so W25P010A-6 sounds fast for a static ram, no? all the 20 control inputs are specified to 2ns , you expect the read cycle to execute in 6ns, till you get to the "clock cycle time" which is 13ns,, and you say weeeelllll,, and then you get to the timing diagram showing 3 clocks per read cycle, and you throw the databook across the room
15:25 katsmeow-afk at 39ns the ram speed is 25Mhz, and this is a cache ram for the P3 cpu
17:01 katsmeow-afk http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=100+Multi+True+%22A%22+Grade+Solar+Cells&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&_okw=&_oexkw=&_adv=1&LH_Complete=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=200&_fpos=&_fsct=&LH_SALE_CURRENCY=0&_sop=1&_dmd=1&_ipg=100
17:04 katsmeow-afk thing is, $150 for 100 cells is 50volts at like 400 watts , when 1000 watts can be had for $210
17:06 tsmeow-afk points to http://www.ebay.com/itm/360618767489 ; http://www.ebay.com/itm/261223707136 ; http://www.ebay.com/itm/130980096662
17:38 katsmeow-afk http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/52433537
17:38 katsmeow-afk NBCNews.com | September 07, 2013
17:38 katsmeow-afk Snake robot slithers where others fear to tread
17:38 katsmeow-afk Researchers at Carnegie Mellon University are developing snake robots that can climb into hard-to-reach places, from the crevices between walls, to the small pockets inside the human body.
17:39 Tom_itx hard to get 50v from an atx psu?
17:39 katsmeow-afk <rue> rewind the transformer
17:40 katsmeow-afk heck, so far i have been unable to get any STABLE volts under load from a puter psu
17:45 tsmeow-afk can chage fan rpm by changing psu volts in this puter, by running the cpu load up and
17:49 katsmeow-afk some of the cable box psu have two-stage transformers, the switcher drives the first at line voltage, it's secondary drives the 2nd transformer which has all the low voltage windings,, praps you can add a 12v-to-50v transformer on the 12v psu secondary
17:50 katsmeow-afk http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/44113336
17:50 katsmeow-afk Matthew Rivera / msnbc.com
17:50 katsmeow-afk NBCNews.com | August 15, 2011
17:50 katsmeow-afk Robots march home from war
17:50 katsmeow-afk Ten years of war have given robot developers a chance to refine and improve their bots. Now the robots are finding all sorts of new jobs on the homefront.
18:00 katsmeow-afk if i wanted to weld some 1/8 inch aluminum, what would i need?
22:49 katsmeow-afk i wish i had been recording that news item .... given that many humans in the south pronounce "well" like "whale", this very overweight woman said "i feel like i'm well"
22:58 katsmeow-afk "While this chemical mix is specially formulated for deep cycle batteries, it also preforms well in all other lead acid batteries." <<== sorry, we never said it performs well, we said it preforms well
23:18 rue_house katsmeow-afk, tig works on anyting
23:28 katsmeow-afk i don't have tig
23:28 tsmeow-afk d
23:35 tsmeow-afk gives the hackers a plate of their favorite Sun Chips, Ritz, Pringles, and Doritos, in other words: hacker crac