#garfield Logs

Sep 03 2013

00:04 katsmeow-afk cannot melt them and they are insulators and dirt cheap
00:05 katsmeow-afk wear glasses in case the glass or ceramics throw chips when hot
00:05 rue_shop2 oh I could stack small glass squares, use sheet metal for electrodes out between them, and compress the whole pile to make it stay put.
00:05 rue_shop2 I'v got the alligator thigns happening well
00:06 rue_shop2 awe, this is cute, the cat is playing in, of all things, the box of mice
00:06 katsmeow-afk PICTURE!!!
00:07 rue_shop2 I can try..
00:08 rue_shop2 dont know how well that came out, I'll post later
00:11 tsmeow-afk goes upstairs for a few to draw lines and make n
00:28 rue_shop2 I'll use zink for the cathode
00:28 rue_shop2 iirc it gives up electrons easier
00:49 rue_shop2 ok, my quicka dn dirty supply is 420vdc
00:54 katsmeow-afk zink will oxidise too fast, won't it?
00:55 katsmeow-afk The surface of the pure metal tarnishes quickly, eventually forming a protective passivating layer of the basic zinc carbonate, Zn
00:55 katsmeow-afk 5(OH)
00:55 katsmeow-afk 6(CO3)
00:55 katsmeow-afk 2, by reaction with atmospheric carbon dioxide.[28] This layer helps prevent further reaction with air and water.
00:55 katsmeow-afk Zinc burns in air with a bright bluish-green flame, giving off fumes of zinc oxide. which as you know, are poisonous
01:10 rue_shop2 it melts too fast!
01:11 rue_shop2 best I can get from it, under dc, is 0-3uA
01:11 katsmeow-afk 3 microamps?
01:11 rue_shop2 you can actaully see the flame pulled into the cathode when the grid is energized
01:11 rue_shop2 yea 3uA
01:12 rue_shop2 from 0
01:12 tsmeow-afk ponders a propane torch blowing softly thru a bed of salt, to add crap, er, carriers to the f
01:12 rue_shop2 I tried to throw in some salt
01:12 katsmeow-afk yeas?
01:12 rue_shop2 I'm not using a heated filament, maybe I should give in and thry that
01:13 katsmeow-afk what are you using as the cathode? pics?
01:13 tsmeow-afk ponders using pics as cath
01:13 rue_shop2 hmm thats .9mW so far
01:13 tsmeow-afk ponders using avrs as cath
01:13 rue_shop2 I'll try a heated nichrome fil.
01:13 katsmeow-afk keep the cathode and plate as close together as possible
01:14 katsmeow-afk nichrome is iron, nickle, and chrome?
01:14 katsmeow-afk constan may work better, it's iron and tin, iirc
01:15 rue_shop2 oo 1uF @ 420VDC = big spark!
01:15 katsmeow-afk yeas
01:16 katsmeow-afk 1 100ufd cap on a 350v amplifier supply was considerd awesome
01:18 katsmeow-afk ............... to form deposits of solid copper on the metal (depicted by the lighter copper-colroed particles adhering to the copper plate).
01:18 katsmeow-afk copper-colroed
01:19 katsmeow-afk it's a freaking .edu site, with no brains, no spell checker, no editors?!
01:26 katsmeow-afk However, an electric vehicle with aluminium batteries has the potential for up to eight times the range of a lithium-ion battery with a significantly lower total weight.[1]
01:26 katsmeow-afk May 27th 2013 Channel 10 evening news broadcast in Israel showed a driving car with Phinergy battery in the back, being "fueled" with "pure drinkable water", claiming 20,000 km operational run for one battery before replacement is necessary.
01:29 rue_shop2 just using the nichrone helped, 2uA standard
01:30 rue_shop2 heating brought to 3-5uA, managed to get salt on the heater, 14uA
01:30 rue_shop2 thye dont mention that aluminum batteries are not rechargable
01:33 katsmeow-afk mechaically rechargeable: dump out the dregs, pour in fresh alum pellets, leave the dregs behind to be reprocessed into new pellets
01:33 katsmeow-afk same as changing out dead batteries in a tray instead of recharging them in the car
01:42 katsmeow-afk A typical fluorescent brightener for North American laundry detergent is:
01:42 katsmeow-afk 1,4-bis(styryl) benzene.
01:43 katsmeow-afk While there, he and the factory manager, George Trench, took out patents for Tonite
01:43 katsmeow-afk (a new high explosive) (1874) and an improved dynamite detonator (1878).[4]
01:53 katsmeow-afk http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/the-ipv6-addressable-light-bulb-goes-on-sale
01:58 rue_shop2 heh
01:58 rue_shop2 ok I took you an interesting video
01:59 rue_shop2 but I'm gonna say that 1uA plate current is all to expect without a lot of work
01:59 rue_shop2 and that carbonization of ... everything is an issue
02:00 rue_shop2 carbon crystals actually glow under those electrical current conditions
02:00 katsmeow-afk carbon naotubes to build your own space elevator!??!
02:02 rue_shop2 mmmm
02:02 katsmeow-afk http://cleantechnica.com/2013/05/30/new-zinc-air-battery-could-pack-twice-the-power-of-lithium-ion/
02:02 katsmeow-afk http://www.greenoptimistic.com/2012/07/26/zinc-air-battery-for-electric-vehicles-to-be-unveiled-in-2013/
02:02 rue_shop2 I need food and a little rest
02:03 rue_shop2 hmm I didn't measure the gate current
02:03 katsmeow-afk http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/eos-puts-its-zinc-air-grid-batteries-to-test-with-coned
02:04 katsmeow-afk umm, maybe gate had the "tube" shut off, which is why you have so little plate current?
02:04 rue_shop2 oh, I didn't - bias...
02:05 katsmeow-afk Eos Energy Storage, the startup that says its zinc-air battery chemistry can provide grid-scale energy storage at unprecedentedly low costs, has just landed its first utility pilot partner to test it out.
02:05 katsmeow-afk That�s Consolidated Edison, which announced Wednesday that it�s using a $250,000 NYSERDA state grant to deploy one of Eos� batteries somewhere on New York City�s grid.
02:05 katsmeow-afk The company, which has raised about $12 million in venture capital, claims its batteries can achieve 75 percent round-trip efficiency, along with a 10,000-cycle, or 30-year, lifetime.
02:05 rue_shop2 filament at -, the plate at 420V, it didn't move current till the grid was +
02:06 rue_shop2 I just jammed the grid to the 420V rail
02:07 rue_shop2 but I didn't measure the current
02:07 katsmeow-afk if the grid is positive tot he cathode, the grid will contribute to the plate current,, this can burn out the grids in regular vac tubes
02:08 rue_shop2 it was strictly between 0 and 420V
02:08 katsmeow-afk you want the grid 5v to 15v negative from the cathode
02:09 rue_shop2 to conduct?
02:09 katsmeow-afk yeas
02:09 rue_shop2 at 0 the plate current shut off
02:10 rue_shop2 maybe I'll play more later
02:17 rue_house I only burned myself twice too
02:17 katsmeow-afk better luck tomorrow?
02:21 katsmeow-afk http://hackaday.com/2010/10/03/zinc-sulfide-glow-power-at-home/ <<== i wonder if you can use a zinc-sulphide doped cathode to improve electron flow?
02:32 rue_house http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ3o5S61lBY
02:32 rue_house hah
02:39 rue_house kat?
02:39 rue_house katsmeow-afk,
02:40 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images/catnmice.jpg
03:09 rue_house http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3vFjNGE5wg
04:07 rue_shop2 TM1809
04:08 rue_shop2 TLC5940
09:57 katsmeow-afk making a single link in the timing chain : http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/guides/images/2/22/Boringoutcrwebs.jpg
10:00 katsmeow-afk actually, it's a crankshaft throw, seen later to the left of center in http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/guides/images/2/23/Crankshaftshop1.jpg <<== there's six guys standing up in that pic, you see them?
10:05 katsmeow-afk you know you are drilling serious metal when you mount a lathe with a 6ft faceplate on a railroad car, rolling it alongside the workpiece, and using it as a drill
10:09 katsmeow-afk you know it's a big drill press when it needs 3 people to operate, they sit up on the drill press 20ft apart, and use radios to talk to each other
10:32 katsmeow-afk you know the t-slot table is prolly big enough on the big mill when the customer wants a 10ft long slot cut in a 2ft dia shaft, and you say you can cut that in the little mill with one pass
10:38 katsmeow-afk rue, i watched "flame triode, 420V 1uA plate current.mp4" , and i believe the entire "tube" must be in the flame, the flame is the glowing physical carriers of the electrons, if it doesn't solidly reach the plate, neither does the current
10:38 katsmeow-afk that's why when you said "candle" , i said "flicker", because the flame is less controllable and more variable
10:40 katsmeow-afk it can be a low temperature flame, you can cool the parts with internal air, the part don't need to be red hot as long as they don't accumulate soot (which insulates)
10:41 katsmeow-afk in fact, if the plate ets red hot, it will tend to repell the incoming current from the cathode
10:42 katsmeow-afk some vac tubes are built with 2 inch water lines into the plates inside the tube
10:43 katsmeow-afk you may ask how they keep the water from shorting the plate voltage to gnd,, they don't, they run the plates at zero volts and the cathodes at -3000v
10:45 tsmeow-afk has pics of a 100kw AM radio station with a cooling tower dedicated just to the transmitter output tub
10:49 katsmeow-afk To this were added three parallel, water-cooled, 167 kW power amplifiers, each with four 100 kW RCA 867 tubes, two to a side in push-pull, making for 12 of these incredibly expensive, five-foot-tall firebottles. Most of this height was the anode's copper heat sink, which fit into a pipelike water jacket.
10:49 katsmeow-afk The huge, high-level modulator was also water-cooled. It could easily make 400 kW audio with both of its largely redundant modules simultaneously cranked to full rock and roll. Fortunately for the survival of civilization, this case was rare.
10:50 katsmeow-afk B+ and other voltages came from a bank of six huge, forced-air cooled, mercury-vapor rectifiers. These 450-amp monsters would shake the building's brick walls, not to mention your bones, when they arced back. Pure DC, 3000 amps of it, was put on RCA 1's many filaments.
10:51 katsmeow-afk Primary cooling water came from a distillery, and was circulated through a heat exchanger in the 700-gpm pump room. Secondary water went outside, to a fountain-like cooling pond.
10:58 katsmeow-afk The thoriated-tungsten filament consists of two independent sections mounted on water-cooled supports. The two filaments may be excited in quadrature to reduce hum contributed by an ac power source. Each filament is rated at a nominal value of 16.3 Volts at approx. 625 Amperes for a total of over 20 kilowatts of filament power
11:01 katsmeow-afk http://home.comcast.net/~n6jv/data/X2159%20Ad.jpg <<== note the two 2" water pipes at the top
11:01 katsmeow-afk the one vac tube is 175 lbs
11:03 katsmeow-afk thoriated to throw electrons, tungsten so it won't melt
11:07 katsmeow-afk BBC News - ?5 minutes ago?
11:07 katsmeow-afk
11:07 katsmeow-afk
11:07 katsmeow-afk
11:07 katsmeow-afk A London skyscraper dubbed the Walkie-Talkie has been blamed for reflecting light which melted parts of a car parked on a nearby street.
11:10 katsmeow-afk http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/69625000/jpg/_69625278_light.jpg
11:18 katsmeow-afk from http://www.nature.com/news/moon-mission-to-suck-up-lunar-dust-1.13649 : On 6 September, NASA plans to send a vacuum cleaner to the Moon.
11:41 katsmeow-afk praps we can get brighter moonlight that way, once the dust is off the moon
12:19 katsmeow-afk remember your flame speaker, both electrodes had to be in the fire, same with the triode, all the electrodes must be in the same fire, and the closer together, generally the better
12:23 katsmeow-afk so 108vdc @ 3amps in solar cells is 2.6 lbs, wtf does one 18v panel weigh 20lbs?
13:55 katsmeow-afk Length = 23.75" Diameter = 17.03"
13:55 katsmeow-afk Max voltage = 22,500
13:55 katsmeow-afk Max current = 125 amps
13:55 katsmeow-afk Fil voltage = 16.3
13:55 katsmeow-afk Fil current = 600 amps
13:55 katsmeow-afk Weight = 175 lbs
13:56 katsmeow-afk heh@ http://home.comcast.net/~n6jv/tubes/860rca.jpg
15:43 katsmeow-afk damned usps
15:45 rue_house to your neighbour again?
15:45 rue_house they cant read the number on your gate yet?
15:45 rue_house bigger!
15:46 katsmeow-afk no, they simply didn't deliver the package for 40 hrs, holding it, no updates
15:51 katsmeow-afk i was on my way to the post office in town , because the phone answering puter at the PO doesn't work, and passed the mail carrier on the way to town
15:52 katsmeow-afk so 45 minutes shot out in the hot sun, had to open and close gates 4 times, in and out of the car *7* times,, and did i need to mention i have a bad back?!?
15:52 katsmeow-afk and to top it off, she wasn't going to leave the package anyhow
15:53 katsmeow-afk she was going to leave a notice and take it back to town!
16:00 rue_house here they dont drop by the house with it at all they just put a tag int eh mailbox that says I have the package at the office
16:06 rue_house they will default timeout your purchase recieve, but you can prevent it, incase shipments take longer
16:07 katsmeow-afk well, this is wierd, i entered TIP41C in the search box, and it simply refreshed the webpage
16:07 rue_house ... let me try
16:08 rue_house try again, I get tonnes of results
16:08 rue_house http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=tip41c&catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20130903124912
16:08 katsmeow-afk ah, ther it is
16:08 katsmeow-afk must have been a glitch in the matrix
16:08 rue_house like ebay, they default search by 'best match'
16:08 katsmeow-afk it glitched 4 times
16:08 rue_house you can change that to lowest price first
16:09 rue_house oh I thk they changed it
16:09 rue_house buttons are different
16:09 rue_house 6cea in lots of 100
16:09 katsmeow-afk 100 TIP41C for $6 !?
16:10 katsmeow-afk oh, plus $12 s&h
16:10 rue_house http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tip41c-to-220/1110622124.html
16:10 rue_house ah, yes
16:10 rue_house the way they calc shipping is... odd
16:10 rue_house you need to be carefull the shipping isn't per item!
16:11 rue_house http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Aerotron-tip41c-6a-100v-power-tube-to-220-3/1187264921.html
16:11 rue_house that one is listed with shipping per piece
16:11 katsmeow-afk an account required , like ebay?
16:11 rue_house yup
16:11 rue_house the profile system is better tho
16:11 rue_house so I find
16:12 rue_house I would definitly advise the usual china product precautions
16:13 tsmeow-afk listens to the precautions.....
16:13 katsmeow-afk go on.....
16:13 rue_house well its just a listing service, so you want to make sure the thing dosn't look like its junk in the first place :)
16:14 katsmeow-afk like ebay verifies the items are of the highest quality?
16:14 rue_house oh I see, the lower bar is now just result order
16:15 rue_house no, thats why I said 'usual'
16:15 rue_house same with the local dollar store :)
16:15 rue_house http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-100PCS-Transistor-TIP41C-Transistor-NPN-TO-220/1047235558.html
16:15 rue_house lowst priced, free shipping
16:16 rue_house not to say there isn't one with charged chipping out there that totals less than that one per piece
16:16 rue_house anyhow, if you weren't familiar I thought I'd point it out
16:16 katsmeow-afk cheapest qty 100 TIP41C on ebay is $15.95 free s&h
16:16 rue_house it also has some stuff that ebay dosn't
16:16 katsmeow-afk $12 on ali
16:19 katsmeow-afk they don't have "price plus s&h"
16:19 rue_house which is odd, cause they did last week
16:19 rue_house I think they work on the system a lot
16:19 rue_house when I first was on it, the
16:20 rue_house 'next' button for the pages would send you to the page after the highest listed page at the bottom
16:20 rue_house aka if you were on page 1, and it showed pages 1,2,3,4 , next would take you to page 5
16:20 rue_house but they fixed that now
16:20 katsmeow-afk 14v adapers are $1 cheaper on ebay
16:21 rue_house see if you can find any of those jacks you were looking for
16:22 katsmeow-afk too late, i cut them off and applied alligator clips
16:24 rue_house I was thining as a test
16:24 katsmeow-afk solar cells on auction, if you get lucky, are cheaper on ebay too
16:25 katsmeow-afk Connecter size: 6.2MM*4.0MM
16:25 rue_house I think they might have nixed the with shipping, cause it didn't work well with the 'shipping per item' vs 'lot shipping cost' I noticed it got confused
16:25 rue_house yes, ali is all new stuff
16:27 katsmeow-afk http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=6.2MM++4.0MM&catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20130903131108
16:27 katsmeow-afk nope, brings up the same 14v 3a adapter tho
16:27 katsmeow-afk cheaper on ebay
16:27 rue_house huh
16:28 katsmeow-afk 14V 3A LCD Monitor Power Adapter For SAMSUNG AP11 AD02 AD-6019 6.2MM*4.0MM
16:28 katsmeow-afk but if you wanna use it on something else, you haveto cut/change the connector
16:31 katsmeow-afk To: <marketing@cybrtrayd.com>
16:31 katsmeow-afk Subject: Take advantage of Cybrtrayd's once-a-year bulk lollipop sticks, cello bags, and candy cups sale!
16:32 katsmeow-afk if they cannot spell, i won't buy from them
16:33 rue_house the clouds came out and rained all over everything, now the sun is here trying to clean it all up
16:34 katsmeow-afk was backwards yesterday, the rain came to wash the sunshine off everything
16:34 rue_house ah they got rid of the 'next' button too, now its just an arrow
16:37 katsmeow-afk 19v 4.74a $8.69 free s&h
16:38 katsmeow-afk 19v 4.74a $5.99 free s&h
16:38 katsmeow-afk you can't have that one
16:40 katsmeow-afk i am thinking too that 14v@4amp divided by two in a simple switched cap circuit = 7v@8amp for a 5v supply
16:41 katsmeow-afk or 19v@4amp thru a complicated switched cap cicrcuit = 6.3v @ 12amps for a 5v supply
16:43 katsmeow-afk being irfz44 are now 10 cents and i just got 2500pcs of 1000ufd 16v caps for 99 cents
16:44 katsmeow-afk if i pay $6 for the adapter, the 5v 12amp adjustable psu will cost me $7 ?
16:44 katsmeow-afk plus knobs, maybe an avr for logging
16:48 katsmeow-afk er, 28 cents
16:51 katsmeow-afk "why do you need 2500 16v 1000u capacitors?" "i don't, but buying 2500 were cheaper than buying only 10"
17:02 rue_house na, dollar value is in the drink
17:03 katsmeow-afk same thing
17:03 katsmeow-afk depenig on your pov
17:08 katsmeow-afk 24v@3a transformer $13 ,, $16 s&h
17:08 katsmeow-afk wth.........s&h US $21.03 for quantity 10
17:10 katsmeow-afk radioshack is cheaper :-/ http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2032277&allCount=116&fbc=1&f=PAD%2FProduct+Type%2FTransformers&fbn=Type%2FTransformers&filterName=Type&filterValue=Transformers
17:11 katsmeow-afk where can i find some hf switcher type cores in 50w sizes, for dirt cheap?
17:18 katsmeow-afk according to RadioShack, Centerpoint South Carolina is 23 miles from me,,,,, google says there is no centerpoint SC, but it would be in the 360 mile driving distance if it existed
17:20 rue_shop2 150W+ old computer power supplies
17:20 rue_shop2 soak them in acetone for about hrs
17:20 rue_shop2 take them apart quick after
17:27 katsmeow-afk hmm, can i drive them backwards as stepups?
17:28 katsmeow-afk http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102703&filterName=Type&filterValue=Transformers $14.49
17:29 katsmeow-afk i am thinking i can sell them to people wanting an isolated 160vdc or 320vdc supply for vac tube or flame thingies power
17:30 katsmeow-afk 50w = 300ma @ 160vdc
17:31 katsmeow-afk if i offer to regulate it and make it variable 0 - 160vdc, people might want to buy it?
17:31 tsmeow-afk s
17:32 katsmeow-afk i can prolly buy complete 60w psu new from china and strip them for transformers at half the price RS wants for that transformer,, and it would be tons smaller and lighter
17:36 katsmeow-afk is today tuesday?
17:38 tsmeow-afk ponders popping open two, and wiring the transformers secondary-to-secondary , one driving normally, one as the load and se
17:38 katsmeow-afk step-up
17:57 rue_house I want to use the sun to make an optic encoder
17:58 rue_house how far away is the sun?
17:58 rue_house I need to know for the trig
17:59 rue_house http://www.ebay.ca/itm/10-pcs-RS232-To-TTL-Module-MAX2323-CSE-/400550976299
17:59 rue_house I need to buy db9f to make these....
18:00 rue_house I wonder if I should optimize the process?
18:00 rue_house ebay fails the 'sort by price' too , caue they dont account for how many items are in the lot
18:15 katsmeow-afk i have considered addressing that issue
18:16 katsmeow-afk if an http proxy scans the page and looks for "pcs" or "qty" or "x2" or "2x", then a html line can be added to show the price each
18:17 katsmeow-afk what about the sun do you want to encode?
19:40 katsmeow-afk oh crap
19:43 katsmeow-afk see if that does it.........
19:44 katsmeow-afk the light on this puter is so dim, i thought it was one of those that was off, so i hit the pwr button
19:44 katsmeow-afk 5 minutes ago
19:45 katsmeow-afk i killed explorer and then taskmgr
19:45 katsmeow-afk i wonder if it's staying up now
20:09 katsmeow-afk As of November 2011 the image and other media files take up about 17T, most of it already compressed media.
20:48 katsmeow-afk Give me a break, give me a break, break me off a piece of that � Android. No, that's not quite how the jingle goes, but the next version of Android is in fact going to be named Kit Kat.
23:23 any40179582 ??
23:30 rue_house I hear ya :)
23:33 y40179582 was afk when disconne
23:36 rue_house oh
23:36 any40179582 well, puter was busy down here, i was busy upstairs
23:36 rue_house http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1206-105-1UF-1206-SMD-capacitance-SMD-capacitors-100PCS-LOT/934790585.html
23:36 rue_house ok price do you think?
23:37 any40179582 $14 for 100 smd? no
23:38 any40179582 free shipping ti usa, what about to canadia?
23:38 rue_house yup
23:39 y40179582 looks tilty-heade
23:39 any40179582 US $7.00 / lot
23:39 any40179582 100 pieces / lot , $0.07 / piece
23:40 any40179582 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=1206+105+1UF+1206+SMD&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.X1206+105+1UF+1206+SMD+100pcs&_nkw=1206+105+1UF+1206+SMD+100pcs&_sacat=0
23:41 any40179582 $6.20 beats $7.00
23:42 any40179582 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MLCC-SMD-chip-capacitors-1206-X7R-1uF-105-50V-100PCS-/251013500648
23:42 any40179582 ebay has a listing for 2500 of them for $29
23:42 any40179582 at $7/100, 2500 would be $175
23:42 rue_house http://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/CL31B105KOFNNNF/CL31B105KOFNNNF-ND/3894673
23:43 rue_house your links are better :)
23:46 any40179582 dija see those links i posted last nite in here?
23:47 rue_house yup
23:48 rue_house I think so
23:49 any40179582 these are surprisingly bendy : http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/guides/images/a/ae/DrillingEntabalure2.jpg
23:49 y40179582 has seen those wor
23:50 rue_house it looks like its on a slider on a gantry, and its drilling something REAAAALY tall
23:51 any40179582 yeas
23:51 rue_house I wonder how long it takes to straighten it all out after an earthquake
23:52 rue_house that looks like an old photo, I cant say why tho
23:52 any40179582 prolly taken in the 1950's
23:53 rue_house its real colour tho
23:53 any40179582 afaik, the company folded in the 1980's
23:53 rue_house who were they?
23:53 y40179582 sh
23:53 rue_house england?
23:54 any40179582 yeas
23:54 rue_house expalins the hat
23:54 rue_house oh yea, any pic like that taken in the last 30 years and he'd be weaing goggles and a helmet