#garfield Logs
Sep 02 2013
#garfield Calendar
01:02 -adams.freenode.net:#garfield- [freenode-info] channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? Please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
01:07 katsmeow-afk How much land does it take to produce 1 gigawatt-hour (GWh) of power a year - enough for 1,000 homes?
01:07 katsmeow-afk Answer: About 32 acres of solar PV.
01:08 katsmeow-afk that's 1,385 sq ft of land per house, or a square ~40ft on each side
01:09 katsmeow-afk sounds awefull low
01:12 katsmeow-afk allowing for spacing to avoid most shadowing, that's 5.5kw of cells installed, 120v@45a
01:17 rue_shop2 but hter would be no light under it to see in the day
01:17 katsmeow-afk sure there is, the panels are spaced waaaaay apart from each other
01:17 katsmeow-afk in most cases, only 25% of the land is in shadow under the panels
01:18 katsmeow-afk in a lot of cases, even less land is shadowed
01:20 katsmeow-afk maybe if turkeys had more triptophan,, like as strond as quadrephan or qunintipan
01:40 katsmeow-afk why is there a GetKatsMeow.com , and it's not me?
01:46 katsmeow-afk zzzzzzzzzzzz
03:09 rue_shop2 gnight
05:33 rue_house katsmeow-afk, http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects/motordriver/p1050532.jpg
05:33 rue_house old one
05:33 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects/motordriver/p1050538.jpg
05:33 rue_house / test
05:33 rue_house and the new one
05:33 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects/motordriver/p1050545.jpg
05:34 rue_house few changes
05:34 rue_house lugs for +v, gnd -v,, motor+ motor -
05:34 rue_house and header for +5V, dir, and pwm
07:27 Tom_itx u need better lighting or longer exposure
07:28 Tom_itx or i need new eyes
07:28 Tom_itx looks good though if it works
11:23 tsmeow-afk likes them, but could make a sugges
11:25 katsmeow-afk on http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects/motordriver/p1050545.jpg , all your heat is concentrated on one edge of the sink, i'd rearrange the pcb slightly so the transistors are spread out, to evenly load the heatsink
11:31 katsmeow-afk i cannot see what transistors you are using, but i expect TIP35/TIP36? since you need 100's of motor/selenoid/stepper drivers, you might save a ton of money using two TIP42 instead of one TIP36 , because 1) the TIP42 is way cheaper, and B) you hit qty discounts faster
11:32 katsmeow-afk qty 10 TIP42 = $3.45
11:32 katsmeow-afk qty 10 TIP36 = $8.58
11:32 katsmeow-afk you can use 2x as many 42s and still save money
11:35 katsmeow-afk a benifit of more transistors is also you can use cheaper sinks, because the base of the sink doesn't need to be as thick to move a one-point heat source across to more fins
11:38 katsmeow-afk if you get the spread-out heat dissipation low enough, you can switch to common aluminum extrusions, like angle or channel ($1 per foot), at which point it's also cheap enough to use a diff sink for pnp and npn, so you can eliminate the transistor insulators and run the sinks "hot", held up by cheap de-coppered FR4 (from abcfab on ebay, just ask for it)
11:40 katsmeow-afk oh, you are using pnp on + and npn on - rails, you don't need separate sinks or insulators
12:01 katsmeow-afk re: TIP42 vs 36, ditto for TIP41 vs 35
12:03 katsmeow-afk another advantage of 2 vs 1 , the same 4 screws holding the transistors down can hold the pcb (taller screws)
12:04 katsmeow-afk or, still using the tip35/36, spread out, same (taller) screws can hold the pcb
13:17 rue_house katsmeow-afk, they are both NPN
13:17 katsmeow-afk 2.5" Kingspec PATA SSD MLC 16GB Solid State Hard Drive For All Notebook $42 within s&h ?
13:18 rue_house 2sc3746
13:18 katsmeow-afk 2SC3746= [!what][!electronics][!device] Material:NPN Si ; Use:med pwr ; Device:trans. ; Vceo:60V ; Current:5A ; PwrDis:20W ; Gain:70-280 ; Freq:~100 MHz ; Case:TO-220ML 2041
13:19 katsmeow-afk why did you use those?
13:19 katsmeow-afk they are $1 each ?
13:20 rue_house they were in the bin of scrounged parts I'm trying to use up
13:20 katsmeow-afk oh
13:20 katsmeow-afk sell them on ebay, buy 3x as many TIP41's ;-)
13:21 rue_house :)
13:21 rue_house cant make it worth a buyers shipping
13:21 katsmeow-afk oh
13:21 rue_house costs $17+ to ship anything from canada
13:21 katsmeow-afk you SERIOUSLY need cross-border runs to ship to/from inside the usa
13:21 rue_house :)
13:21 rue_house sent to to china to be shipped for free
13:22 katsmeow-afk but from anywhere else, even canadia, it isn't
13:22 rue_house the heat distribution losidedness is ok, its only driving 2A max, as set up right now anyhow
13:22 rue_house biab
13:22 katsmeow-afk k
13:22 katsmeow-afk me too, need 2x4 lumbers
13:33 rue_house you see the old one uses 2 2n3055?
13:33 rue_house so much easier to find npn pairs in the parts boxes
13:33 rue_house I have 2 bins of transistors to get used up
13:34 Tom_itx depends what you have boxes of
13:34 rue_house everything
14:39 rue_house I still need to check the crossover timing of the circuit
14:49 rue_house I suppose I should install this on the cnc machine and give it a good run before making 9 more
15:18 katsmeow-afk the 2n3055 are pretty slow, good only for dc and low freq audio, they take a while to turn on and off
15:21 katsmeow-afk 50Pcs TIP42C TIP42 PNP TRANSISTOR 100V 6A TO-220 $8.33 + $0.60 s&h
15:22 katsmeow-afk TIP41C NPN, same price same seller
15:28 katsmeow-afk just fyi, for future reference, when the parts bin gets low
15:32 katsmeow-afk 2n3055 can take some abuse tho, like 3amps of base current, and running so hot they unsolder the pins
15:34 tsmeow-afk ponders a chain drive loop, with eliptic sprockets at both ends of the
17:40 katsmeow-afk rue, did you find any rubber o-rings for steel rods like 1/8 dia?
18:05 katsmeow-afk Material: Rubber
18:05 katsmeow-afk Inner Diameter: 1/8"
18:05 katsmeow-afk Outer Diameter: 3/8"
18:05 katsmeow-afk 100 Black Tattoo Needle Gun Machine Rubber Armature Bar A-BAR Nipple Grommets
18:07 katsmeow-afk 1kg = 2.2 lbs?
18:10 Tom_itx http://crownproductsinc.com/tools/?p=chart
18:13 rue_shop2 saw that, no use for them yet
18:13 Tom_itx they're local
18:14 Tom_itx member that o ring i needed to fix a leak?
18:14 Tom_itx guess who had it
18:17 katsmeow-afk satanclaws?
18:19 katsmeow-afk http://crownproductsinc.com/ doesn't seem to sell onlinie
18:46 katsmeow-afk http://stores.ebay.com/Oringsandmore/ORING-SIZE-CHART.html
18:51 katsmeow-afk <ring><ring> "hello, you have reached dictionary.com live answer person, you get one free question" "can you spell onomatopoeical?" "yes, i can" <click>
20:18 katsmeow-afk need 100 ttl 4-bit latches for $60 ? http://www.ebay.com/itm/360730690350
20:18 katsmeow-afk er, 1000
20:19 katsmeow-afk i know i can find 8-bit latches for cheaper
20:31 rue_house its hard to find ttl logic chips that are worth using in a circuit, most things are taken care of by microcontrollers
20:31 rue_house the reason I use the 7400 was that I need to ensure there is no chance for both sides of the drives to come on at the same time
20:32 rue_house http://www.ebay.ca/itm/10-pcs-RS232-To-TTL-Module-MAX2323-CSE-/400550976299
20:33 rue_house wow thats cheap
20:33 katsmeow-afk 1/8 ID o-rings : http://stores.ebay.com/Oringsandmore/_i.html?_nkw=006&submit=Search&_sid=174008094
20:33 rue_house I was just making pcb's for those last night too
20:33 katsmeow-afk the one store has 6 flavors of 1/8
20:36 katsmeow-afk qty 100 $180 + $2.50 s&h
20:36 katsmeow-afk each additional 100 is $0.25 s&h
20:37 katsmeow-afk what should i be paying for SG90 servos?
20:37 katsmeow-afk $2.30 - $2.40 ?
20:39 katsmeow-afk $2.33 plus free s&h for one
20:46 katsmeow-afk oo, $1.65 each!
20:46 katsmeow-afk but haveto buy qty 100 at a time
20:47 katsmeow-afk wait, that's 1.65 in GBP ,, it's $2.55 USD
20:47 katsmeow-afk AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
20:49 katsmeow-afk pretty airplane : http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-MONTEREY-100-RC-Sailplane-Model-Airplane-PLAN-With-Patterns-Article/221271297815
20:56 tsmeow-afk wonders if it would look as pretty with solar panels on it's w
21:19 katsmeow-afk 20ft wings = 18v@3a / 9v@6a (twice that with 14" wide wings) from solar cells in noon sun
21:25 tsmeow-afk ponders 20" wide wings delivering 18v@10amps , 1/
21:29 katsmeow-afk or 9v@20amps, enough for http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turborix-RC-Plane-Helicopter-2210-1500kv-Outrunner-BL-Brushless-Motor-Engine-/160917942741
21:36 rue_house thats not for the plane, its for the plan
21:36 rue_house for $21 yo ucan get motor AND controller
21:39 rue_house digital logic excersize
21:40 rue_house DIR | PWM || A | B
21:40 rue_house in || out
21:41 rue_house ----------------------
21:42 rue_house 0 | 0 || 0 | 1
21:42 rue_house 0 | 1 || 0 | 1
21:42 rue_house 1 | 0 || 1 | 0
21:42 rue_house 1 | 1 || 0 | 1
21:43 rue_house the first and 3rd lines outputs can be swapped if desired
21:43 rue_house oh I errored
21:44 rue_house hold on
21:45 rue_house DIR | PWM || A | B
21:45 rue_house in || out
21:45 rue_house ----------------------
21:45 rue_house 0 | 0 || 0 | 0
21:45 rue_house 0 | 1 || 0 | 1
21:45 rue_house 1 | 0 || 1 | 1
21:45 rue_house 1 | 1 || 0 | 1
21:46 rue_house ok, what is the gate config for A and B then
21:50 rue_house I think I got it
21:53 rue_house it looks like the same gate structure I use with the nand gates but it defaults to off with no input and the pwm and dir are reversed
21:55 katsmeow-afk where is a motor AND controller for $21 ?
21:58 katsmeow-afk what if you used a separate Fwd and Rev line from the controller, and just tell the controlelr to never have both on at once?
21:59 katsmeow-afk that way, if neither is on, the motor can't run
22:01 katsmeow-afk and if both are on, the controller can drain the batteries in a hurry so you cannot command it to goto a dangerous situation
22:04 rue_house software oops and the driver goes up in smoke?
22:05 katsmeow-afk you don't make mistakes
22:05 rue_house microcontrollers sometimes freeze up
22:07 katsmeow-afk then you have a problem anyhow
22:11 rue_house http://www.ebay.com/itm/30A-BEC-ESC-5000-Helicopter-Outrunner-Brushless-Motor-/120500819081
22:11 rue_house kv is "thousands of rpm per volt" that got me for a long time
22:12 katsmeow-afk yeow
22:14 katsmeow-afk have you used http://www.ebay.com/itm/30A-BEC-ESC-5000-Helicopter-Outrunner-Brushless-Motor-/120500819081 ?
22:14 rue_house not specifically, I have another one
22:14 rue_house they beep till you give them the first signal
22:14 katsmeow-afk as a mower blade controller?
22:15 rue_house they have a min rpm they just cutoff at, prolly in the 7000rpm range
22:15 rue_house I'v not taken any of the rpm meters I have to it yet
22:15 katsmeow-afk if it won't run below 7,000 rpm, how do you get it started?
22:16 rue_house I came to the conclusion that ganging 150+ of them for the truck would not perform well
22:16 rue_house you just hit go, it kicks in kinda hard
22:16 katsmeow-afk hmm
22:17 katsmeow-afk so i should not use a car radiator fan and motor?
22:17 rue_house shall I take a video of one to youtube for ya?
22:17 rue_house your fine if its an on/off application
22:17 katsmeow-afk nah, there's prolly utube videos of motors
22:17 rue_house http://www.ebay.com/itm/5000Kv-5000-Outrunner-Brushless-RC-Motor-30A-ESC-y-/251047023581
22:18 rue_house to 5000kv, at 9.6V is 48000 rpm
22:18 rue_house to/so
22:18 katsmeow-afk holycrap, 48,000 rpm? no way
22:18 rue_house well I DO have a meter now
22:19 rue_house to put it in context, a vacuum cleaner motors is 0.336KV
22:19 katsmeow-afk the motor my survive it, but the propellor wouldn't
22:19 rue_house that would be the unloaded speed constant
22:20 rue_house yo want to use it on the truck rad?
22:20 rue_house cool idea...
22:20 rue_house no brushes....
22:20 rue_house some of them are 1200W
22:20 katsmeow-afk a 10 inch prop at 48,000 rpm would be moving ummmm,,,, 24mph
22:20 rue_house without the engine running :)
22:21 rue_house "the drive shaft broke, so I'm propelling the truck with the radiator fan"
22:21 katsmeow-afk no, i want an rc plane, this house was built (by me) with a heavy steel diagonal from a steel roof beam down to the concrete footer, just to taking side loads from throwing a plan into the air and capturing it from the air
22:22 rue_house if you belive the numbers, 12V at 30A is 360W
22:22 rue_house ok
22:23 katsmeow-afk i don't believe the numbers, besides i was interested in gasoline/propane or solar power first, so in one case the electrical doesn't matter, and in the 2nd case it's limited by the solar cells
22:23 rue_house http://www.ebay.com/itm/Emax-CF-2822-1200KV-Brushless-Outrunner-Motor-30A-ESC-/180720729455
22:23 rue_house if you search for "esc motor" and clip the bottom end to $15, buy it now, then you should see piles of motor+controller kits
22:25 rue_house hmm, the food I just had brought me to the point where I realize I need more food
22:25 rue_house they multistrand the motor windings, the leads off the motor ARE the winding strands
22:26 rue_house http://www.ebay.ca/itm/10-pcs-RS232-To-TTL-Module-MAX2323-CSE-/400550976299
22:27 rue_house I cant even buy the sc232 converters for $1
22:27 katsmeow-afk the local news is speding 5 minutes trying to blame a golf cart for the idiot driving it, rolling it, and literally cracking her skull open,,,,,,, i wonder how long she will be paying the hospital for that stunt
22:27 rue_house ... or can I ... hmm
22:27 katsmeow-afk wait,, a strike on Siri ??
22:28 rue_house whats siri?
22:28 rue_house oh, the place?
22:28 katsmeow-afk the google / Androiid Epad version of Tiggr
22:28 rue_house yea, I'm back to confused
22:30 rue_house kat, heli gears that fit the mtoors are easy to find cheap
22:30 rue_house you cuold easy bring down the rpm
22:30 katsmeow-afk do i want to do that?
22:30 rue_house I dont know
22:31 katsmeow-afk i dunno too
22:31 rue_house it sound like you want ot make a plane
22:31 rue_house rc plane parts are pretty cheap
22:31 katsmeow-afk i don't see a way yet to attach the prop to the motor
22:31 rue_house I have a tailrotor and main plades as part of my dollar items
22:31 rue_house I was gonna see if I can gradually collect the rest of the parts for the plane
22:31 rue_house /copter
22:32 rue_house do you have a prop?
22:32 katsmeow-afk no
22:32 rue_house hmm
22:32 rue_house I dont think I know enough about al this to give you good advise
22:35 katsmeow-afk i see no way to attach the props on ebay to any shaft at all
22:51 katsmeow-afk Proper procedure for tightening prop bolts:
22:51 katsmeow-afk 1) Obtain thin steel washers and place them under the heads of the socket head screws.
22:51 katsmeow-afk i looked at the pics, there's no bolts
22:51 katsmeow-afk there's no screws
22:59 rue_house there is a hub
22:59 katsmeow-afk yeas, no screws in it
22:59 rue_house two screws opposite sides, the other style is a collet
23:00 katsmeow-afk i saw no screws, no collet, no threaded holes
23:00 rue_house http://www.ebay.ca/itm/45mm-4mm-Shaft-Aluminum-Folding-Prop-Spinner-Hub-For-RC-Motor-/141036452656
23:01 rue_house http://www.ebay.ca/itm/D3530-14-BRUSHLESS-OUTRUNNER-MOTOR-1100kv-RC-PLANE-GLIDER-QUADCOPER-3D-FLY-/171117683101
23:01 rue_house my cheap motor came with one
23:01 katsmeow-afk i see a collet and two blade mounting screws
23:01 katsmeow-afk i see no way to tighten the collet
23:02 rue_house http://www.ebay.ca/itm/3536-KV1200-Outrunner-Brushless-Motor-for-rc-airplane-/230966317099
23:02 rue_house mine came with that, the nosecone is the nut that tightnes down on the collet and prop
23:02 katsmeow-afk o
23:02 rue_house nut -> prop -> collet
23:03 rue_house all tightens at the same time
23:03 rue_house http://www.ebay.ca/itm/EMAX-BL2215-25-950KV-Outrunner-Brushless-Motor-BL-215-25-for-RC-Airplane-S-/111001621345
23:03 rue_house that the other type, I dont know how it works
23:03 katsmeow-afk i didn't see a colet on the prop i looked at, and it has no spinner
23:09 katsmeow-afk oh well
23:12 katsmeow-afk "It is crucial to use a drill bit to ensure a smooth hole is drilled perpendicular to the propeller blades. If the hole is off-center or not square, the propeller will not turn correctly and your airplane will crash. " <<== so i haveto drill square holes??
23:12 rue_shop2 ;)
23:12 rue_shop2 that one always used to get me
23:13 rue_shop2 you know how to make a broach, yes? :)
23:13 katsmeow-afk http://www.ehow.com/how_7840907_attach-prop-rc-motor.html <<== says "motors", but they talk about engines and threaded shafts
23:14 katsmeow-afk if i haveto make a broach to fit a motor square shaft, i'll prolly make the prop from scratch too
23:14 rue_shop2 I wan to make a flame amp...
23:14 rue_shop2 I need 300V and a high imp. transformer
23:15 rue_shop2 10Meg resistor, ok, have those
23:16 rue_shop2 50k, should have that
23:17 rue_shop2 I dont know about their bias circuit
23:17 rue_shop2 might expalin the audio fuzzyness tho
23:18 rue_shop2 I wonder what the bias point of a flame is
23:18 rue_shop2 tubes needed a midpoint bias didn't they?
23:19 katsmeow-afk a grid bias
23:19 katsmeow-afk usually something like negative 15v or so
23:20 katsmeow-afk most time people use a cathode resistor, the current off the cathode drops voltage across the resistor, the cathode floats up, so the grid, at ground, looks negative to the cathode
23:21 katsmeow-afk then you need a cap across the resistor to hold the cathode still as you vary the tube current with the signal
23:21 rue_shop2 ah, ofcourse
23:21 rue_shop2 ok
23:21 katsmeow-afk actually, i do have a prop
23:22 katsmeow-afk and a pic online of it somewhere
23:22 rue_shop2 do you think a 300V -> 24V transformer will do for audio?
23:23 katsmeow-afk do what for it?
23:25 katsmeow-afk http://designerthinking.com/images/house/what%20clutter.jpg <<== propellor blades
23:25 rue_shop2 I think your gonna need a bigger motor
23:26 katsmeow-afk heh ;-)
23:26 rue_shop2 for the output transformer
23:26 katsmeow-afk the 60hz iron won't do well for high freq audio
23:26 rue_shop2 I suppose I should have a 1k -> 8R
23:26 rue_shop2 but I dont think I have any
23:27 katsmeow-afk but you can vary the tube load a lot by changing the speaker load
23:28 rue_shop2 do you think the base drive transformer of a crt horizontal driver would be about right?
23:28 katsmeow-afk with a single-ended drive, you get only 1/2 the rated power of thetransformer, because of the dc
23:28 katsmeow-afk umm
23:29 katsmeow-afk a flame "tube" with only 300v?
23:29 rue_shop2 I'm looking for something to use for the output transformer
23:29 katsmeow-afk got a 240vac-24vac tansformer?
23:30 rue_shop2 300V to 24V
23:30 katsmeow-afk try it, it's an experiment, right?
23:30 rue_shop2 think that'll work for a test?
23:30 rue_shop2 fair enough
23:31 tsmeow-afk collected 240vac, 208vac, and 120vac 24v transformers from stuff at the recycling ce
23:31 rue_shop2 I think I'll makea rectifier first, feed it dc, and see what the current is
23:32 rue_shop2 candle...
23:33 katsmeow-afk flicker
23:33 katsmeow-afk propane torch...
23:34 rue_shop2 I was just thinking about flame height stability
23:34 rue_shop2 want to use a candle..
23:37 rue_shop2 so the plate is the head of a nail?
23:38 rue_shop2 hmm, reasonably safe 300V supply...
23:38 katsmeow-afk a nail is awefully small
23:39 rue_shop2 I'm thining that too
23:39 rue_shop2 just workout out what to hold all this with
23:39 katsmeow-afk you might wanna try the flame coming up thru the cathode, thru the grid, and hitting a horizontal plate
23:40 rue_shop2 or make it like 3 grids stacked
23:40 katsmeow-afk the flame will go up, and you want it to hit all the parts
23:40 katsmeow-afk yeas
23:40 rue_shop2 if I just had a glass stirr stick
23:41 rue_shop2 maybe a glass plate is good enough
23:41 rue_shop2 oh! make the plate out of a candle suffer!
23:41 rue_shop2 :)
23:41 rue_shop2 the ironsy?
23:41 katsmeow-afk use the ignition thingies off gas appliances, tehy are ceramic tubes
23:41 rue_shop2 oh ceramic tube -> glass tube -> halogen lamp tube!
23:41 katsmeow-afk candle snuffers are usually deep domes
23:42 katsmeow-afk any glass lamp, just leave the internal wiring attached to the oem base
23:43 katsmeow-afk spark plug ceramic
23:43 katsmeow-afk they do conduct heat real fast tho
23:44 rue_shop2 my idea is to use the tube as a stand frame, and attach the electrodes to it via light clamps
23:45 katsmeow-afk the electodes won't weght that much , just use baby alligator clips, to attach them to your glass plate
23:46 rue_shop2 yes!
23:46 katsmeow-afk <curtsey>
23:47 rue_shop2 and its hollow, holding it up will be easy