#garfield Logs

Apr 07 2013

01:59 useless-afk riff_raff
01:59 useless-afk 04/04/13 at 1:25 am
01:59 useless-afk PV solar cells may last for 25 years, but their performance starts to degrade in just a couple years. Commercial PV solar cells will lose 50% of their performance within a decade.
02:00 useless-afk http://www.popsci.com/user-comments/45568
03:55 useless-afk does this make any sense to anyone??? : In 2008 Mr Young suffered a pulmonary embolism and an anoxic brain injury due to a reduced oxygen supply that impaired his speech and arm movement. A colostomy operation last year provided only temporary relief.
03:56 useless-afk http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21952852
11:48 rue_bed kat, easy misplaced brain
12:07 rue_house https://docs.google.com/a/makerfaire.ca/spreadsheet/viewform?usp=sharing&formkey=dGEwYVRxMHR3eTIxSzA1R1llVzRuMEE6MA#gid=0
12:33 rue_house ok done. hopefully not too late, I'm gonna take a shower
12:44 eless-afk notes if any showers are reported missing, to contact
12:46 useless-afk kidnapping outside store was scared to death when cops screeched around the corner with sirens blaring. Paramedics were called. The funeral wasn't so much fun.
12:50 useless-afk The new swedish fastfood place in town has installed shower heads and a large diesel powered hydraulic system at their drivethru window. When asked why, the manager stated it was for people who wold say "i'll just take a cheeseburger and fries".
13:00 useless-afk (after taking a cheeseburger and fries there, one goes home to take a shower)
14:17 rue_house I want to hear newsa bout kat
14:17 rue_house ok lunchtime
16:03 eless-afk discoveres the reason her tummy is upset is she didn't eat breakfast or lunch,,, so eats
16:13 rue_house that would make it seem upset
16:20 eless-afk
16:43 eless-afk doesn't want to cut up the sheet of aluminum she got for projects, because she got it to cut up for projects, and if she cuts it up for this project, then she won't have it to cut up for proj
16:51 useless-afk after all, there's projects, Projects, PROjects, proJECTS, PrOjEcTs, pRoJeCtS, 3�1�5�3j3�14�7t12� , 3p14r4�6j4�3c7+7s , 4�14�2�7j14�4�6t4� , and 3�7r7�4j14�2�7+14s
19:28 useless-afk ...
20:10 useless-afk AH HAH! i figured out how to keep the plates of the heat exchanger separated even when i can't see them and they are 10 layers deep!
20:16 useless-afk now, how much 24awg surface area do i need to transfer 16 million btu?
20:18 useless-afk rue, dipmicro is in Canadia, has 1/2 price sale on some of his nicads
20:19 useless-afk 1/2 price on 2n7000 mosfets
20:19 Tom_itx what causes caps to bulge? undersize? undervolts?
20:20 useless-afk heat
20:21 useless-afk heat can be (usually is) caused by too much ac current thru too much ESR
20:23 Tom_itx so i need to look for low ESR caps for replacements
20:23 Tom_itx what is considered low?
20:23 useless-afk *VERY* low esr for high current switchers like that
20:23 useless-afk milliohms
20:24 Tom_itx i know very little about cap specs
20:24 useless-afk you know about esr tho?
20:26 useless-afk the keywork in ESR is "equivalent", it's the equivalent dc resistance as a resistor, but to the ac
20:26 useless-afk like a resistor, you push charge/discharge current thru it, it dissipates heat
20:27 useless-afk and caps throw heat very very poorly, they have no intrinsic heat dissipation in them
20:29 useless-afk electrolytics have two plates, not like end-bonded chip caps which may have 100
20:30 useless-afk if the lead wires are bonded to a plate only at the end of the plate, the ESR is *huge* at high freqs, the cap may even ring like an LC tank
20:32 useless-afk but if the plates are cross-bonded to themselves like a chip cap is end-bonded, the electrical connection to any point on the plates is very short, there's little delay in the electron travel, there's multiple bond sites in parallel
20:32 useless-afk and better yet, the electrons on the plate don't haveto circle around in the coiled plates and get dizzy before getting out
20:33 useless-afk remember, coiled plates look like coils of wire in a choke / inductor
20:34 useless-afk yeas, ESR is a different value at different freqs
20:34 Tom_itx i get what esr is sorta
20:34 Tom_itx i realize low is good
20:38 useless-afk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor#Ripple_current
20:39 useless-afk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalent_series_resistance#Capacitors
20:40 useless-afk A cheap electrolytic capacitor may be rated for a life of less than 1000 hours at 85�C (a year is about 9000 hours). Higher-grade parts are typically rated at a few thousand hours at maximum rated temperature, as can be seen from manufacturers' datasheets. Electrolytics of higher capacitance have lower ESR; if ESR is critical, specification of a part of larger capacitance than is otherwise required may be advantageous.
20:40 useless-afk or paralleling several smaller caps
20:40 useless-afk A very serious problem, particularly with aluminium electrolytics, is that ESR increases over time with use; ESR can increase enough to cause circuit malfunction and even component damage,[1] although measured capacitance may remain within tolerance.
20:40 useless-afk While this happens with normal aging, high temperatures and large ripple current exacerbate the problem. In a circuit with significant ripple current, an increase in ESR will increase heat dissipation, thus accelerating aging.
20:41 useless-afk Polymer capacitors usually have lower ESR than wet-electrolytic of same value, and stable under varying temperature. Therefore polymer capacitors can handle higher ripple current. From about 2007 it became common for better-quality computer motherboards to use only polymer capacitors where wet electrolytics had been used previously
20:41 useless-afk which puzzled me why the caps, which should have been dry, were leaking anything before they exploded
20:42 Tom_itx how long after they leaked did they blow?
20:42 useless-afk well, quickly, if in use, the leaking was the cap's case busting already
20:43 Tom_itx i got one that is leaking
20:43 useless-afk dispose of it asap
20:43 Tom_itx i need to keep the pc in service but it's only on when in use
20:44 Tom_itx have i got hours or days?
20:44 useless-afk i wold not use that mobo, i'd clip that cap out and bag it, some electrolytes can etch the copper, or deposit disolved aluminum from inside the cap
20:44 useless-afk days, i expect
20:44 Tom_itx ok
20:44 useless-afk under a month
20:44 useless-afk your risk
20:44 Tom_itx i could pull one from an identical mo board
20:45 Tom_itx it also has one starting but only one on each board
20:45 useless-afk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESR_meter
20:45 Tom_itx i need both of them working
20:45 useless-afk In older equipment, this tended to cause hum and degraded operation; modern equipment, in particular switch-mode power supplies, is very sensitive to ESR, and a capacitor with high ESR can cause equipment to malfunction or cause permanent damage requiring repair, typically by causing power supply voltages to become excessively high.[1]
20:45 Tom_itx but i could pull one and put it on the other board
20:45 Tom_itx i just don't wanna risk destroying a board
20:46 useless-afk you can get esr meters on ebay, good idea would be to test them all if you have any case of bulging
20:47 useless-afk you can make esr meters too, they are just 200mv ac signals with ac ampmeters
20:48 useless-afk ^ Example of high-ESR capacitors causing voltages to rise in a circuit and destroy components. High ESR capacitors cause "5V dropping quite low and causing every other voltage to go sky high (and doing things like frying the HDD with upwards of 15V rather than 12V,
20:53 useless-afk http://web.archive.org/web/20051230050715/http://octopus.freeyellow.com/esr.html
20:56 useless-afk This is a 1000uf cap used in lots of switching power supplies. The Capacitor Wizard measured 1.5 ohms in circuit. Because the capacitor's operating voltage is so low and it's used in a switching power supply, I would expect a normal ESR reading of less than 1/2 ohm. Comparison to a known good cap confirmed it should measure less than 1/2 ohm. Replacing this cap cured the trouble.
21:02 Tom_itx 6.3v 330�f
21:03 Tom_itx (M)105c
21:03 Tom_itx 5(7)
21:03 Tom_itx 2Y
21:04 Tom_itx KGZ
21:04 Tom_itx sry,
21:04 Tom_itx KZG
21:05 eless-afk looks stupidly at the num
21:05 Tom_itx all the markings i can see on the cap
21:05 Tom_itx may be some i can't see
21:05 useless-afk oh, cap markins are not a datasheet
21:06 useless-afk Polymer capacitors, are types of electrolytic capacitor with conductive polymer as solid electrolyte (cathode). ... are OS-CON (Sanyo trademark), Aluminum Organic Polymer Capacitors (AO-CAPS), Organic Conductive Polymer Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor (OC-CON), Functional Polymer Capacitors (FPCAP).
21:07 useless-afk As of 2012:
21:07 useless-afk Some types have longer life than wet electrolytics, e.g. 50,000 hours life at 85 �C. Others are specified typically for guaranteed 1000 hours at 105 �C.
21:08 useless-afk Sanyo OS-CON polymer capacitors went into production in 1983.[1] They were used on server and workstation computer motherboards first, then on graphics cards, and in 2007 became more common for high-end consumer motherboards.[1]
21:08 useless-afk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_capacitor
21:09 Tom_itx it irks me to remove a good cap from a working mb
21:09 Tom_itx with risk of farking it up
21:10 Tom_itx and wrecking the mb
21:10 useless-afk you know anodising, right? afaik, the only reason for the liquid in wet caps is it's the guarantee the aluminum plates will form enough insulating oxide between the plates when they are "formed" in the factory
21:10 useless-afk hence the liquid is corrosive
21:11 useless-afk you can also wreck the cap by removing it and then resoldering it in, it's not a great situation to be in
21:12 Tom_itx well if i start i will start on the less used board
21:12 Tom_itx which i just removed from the case
21:12 useless-afk solding temperatures are obviously above the temp stamped on the caps
21:12 Tom_itx i got a couple other mb's that are dead i may see what caps they have on them
21:13 useless-afk can you simply ebay overnite ,, or 2 day digikey the new parts to you?
21:13 Tom_itx i gotta know what ones to get though
21:13 Tom_itx beyond doubt
21:14 useless-afk strangely, the best caps, by the ratings, prolly won't physically fit the space allotted
21:14 useless-afk you might haveto mount one above the pcb, and one below,,, but use the shortest possible lead lengths
21:17 useless-afk i once spec'd caps for a commercial unit, they were leaning towards one cap, i presented another, and explained the math which showed theone they chose would convert 4 times as much power into heat internally and likely pop after being left on 3 months, so they went with the more expensive one i chose, and never had a problem
21:18 useless-afk they did ignore me on a transitor tho, i said make it a TO-126 case, they went with a TO-220 case, those didn't even last overnite under full load
21:19 Tom_itx i went with multi caps on my psu for my mill over one big one
21:19 useless-afk i had built the prototypes that the psu powered, i told them the ratings they had were incorrect as of the last redesign <shrug>
21:20 eless-afk
21:21 Tom_itx replacing with a 1200uf probably isn't a good idea
21:22 Tom_itx 3300uf
21:22 useless-afk correct
21:23 Tom_itx i could practice removing them though
21:23 Tom_itx dead mb
21:24 useless-afk maybe it's dead from bad caps?
21:24 Tom_itx no
21:25 Tom_itx it had an address buss issue iirc
21:25 useless-afk o
21:25 Tom_itx much older board
21:26 Tom_itx i'll try a couple and see how it goes
21:26 eless-afk
21:27 useless-afk funny, i was so useful back then, late 1970's, and i know more now, i can do more now, but now i am useless
21:29 Tom_itx you're helping me
21:29 useless-afk thanks :-)
21:31 Tom_itx 3 for 3 was pretty easy
21:31 useless-afk good
21:33 Tom_itx care to help find a good cap on digikey or mouser
21:33 Tom_itx i like mouser better actually
21:33 Tom_itx 3300 uf 6.3v
21:33 useless-afk i have not ordered from mouser in years, i ordered from digikey last week
21:34 Tom_itx well use dk then
21:34 Tom_itx i can probably find the same part at mouser
21:34 useless-afk i am already looking at mouser
21:34 useless-afk make up my mind
21:34 Tom_itx i prefer them
21:34 Tom_itx usually cheaper
21:35 useless-afk what is the actual voltage on the cap when operatng? can you oscope it?
21:36 useless-afk there's a couple nice caps , but they aren't 6.3
21:36 Tom_itx higher v would probably be ok
21:36 Tom_itx they would be physically bigger probably
21:36 useless-afk no, they are lower and smalelr
21:37 useless-afk at 6.3 the Nichicon polymers top out at 1800ufd
21:37 Tom_itx well it's likely in the 5v circuit
21:38 useless-afk esr = 11mohms
21:38 Tom_itx http://cz.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic-Electronic-Components/EEU-FM0J332B/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMukHu%252bjC5l7YZoqau5lHLGP7smSmeI9Cjk%3d
21:38 useless-afk wth are you on a .cz version??
21:38 useless-afk i speaken de english
21:38 Tom_itx baah
21:39 Tom_itx sry it came up that way
21:39 Tom_itx probably clicked on a link or something and it defaulted to that
21:40 Tom_itx i type in www.mouser.com and it goes to cz.mouser....
21:40 Tom_itx wtf
21:41 useless-afk got a virus?
21:41 Tom_itx not that i know of
21:41 useless-afk dns redirectors are popular for faking pages and grabbing cc data
21:42 Tom_itx i'll switch pcs
21:42 useless-afk the usa site lists only english and spanish languages, not chezk
21:43 Tom_itx i'll practice fixing the 'spare' mb first with new parts
21:43 Tom_itx if that goes well at least i know i have a backup to use
21:43 Tom_itx before i take the main one down
21:43 Tom_itx they both need caps
21:46 useless-afk the polymers caps are in too small ranges of every variable at mouser
21:46 useless-afk they have an 1800 ufd , you'd haveto use two of them for every one you replace
21:47 eless-afk switches to plain electroly
21:49 Tom_itx was ^^ that one any good?
21:49 useless-afk crap, cannot search them by esr
21:50 useless-afk which one?
21:50 Tom_itx the cz link
21:50 useless-afk i couldn't read it, it wasn't english
21:50 Tom_itx you can switch to english on the page
21:51 useless-afk oh, i didn't
21:52 useless-afk 2.6amp sounds low
21:55 useless-afk yeas, that 3300ufd in a 12.5x20mm case is 18mohms
21:56 Tom_itx 20mm sounds big
21:56 useless-afk i hope there are several of those caps on that psu, or it's a micro-itx
21:56 Tom_itx yes
21:56 useless-afk replace them all to be safer
21:56 Tom_itx probably 10
21:56 Tom_itx i can't tell if they're all hooked together though
21:56 useless-afk 20mm ~= 3/4 inch, yeas
21:57 Tom_itx maybe something smaller...
21:57 Tom_itx i could do taller
21:57 useless-afk 12.5 dia, 20mm tall
21:57 Tom_itx oh
21:57 useless-afk 12.5mm = 1/2 inch
21:57 Tom_itx i was gonna say these are about 3/8" diameter
21:57 Tom_itx ok
21:57 Tom_itx do those look good?
21:58 Tom_itx let's find another good one
21:58 useless-afk well, to be honest, i have seen better before,, the lifetime is short and the spec'd ripple current is low
21:59 useless-afk the 5000 hr on the webpage is chut in half in the pdf datasheet
21:59 Tom_itx this pc seems to be giving me grief now too
22:03 useless-afk http://www.mouser.com/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Aluminum-Electrolytic-Capacitors/Aluminum-Electrolytic-Capacitors-Leaded/_/N-75hqw?P=1z0wxctZ1z0wqs3Z1z0wrk0Z1z0wqfaZ1z0z7l5Z1z0yp75Z1z0yoh6&Ns=Capacitance|1
22:05 Tom_itx that still comes up with the cz site
22:05 useless-afk you're virused then
22:06 useless-afk this initially looks nice, but they don't say WHAT the esr is : http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/United-Chemi-Con/EKZH6R3ELL392MK20S/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22WSklcDEqxFDqVyU8YQo4Dg%3d
22:07 Tom_itx gimme a bit to figure out what's going on here
22:07 Tom_itx i may have some problems
22:09 useless-afk 10,000 hour lifetime, 2x the url you gave me ==>> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic-Electronic-Components/EEU-FR0J392B/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22eHFyjIavHtVk%2fkH29qglas%3d
22:10 useless-afk these nichicons have 2x the esr and 8000hr lifes ==>> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/UHD0J392MHD/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22VNcIGAt7w%252bWLyfj8zXJhwk%3d
22:11 Tom_itx 2x the esr... meaning lower?
22:11 useless-afk damnit, they didn't pay attention tot he "stocked" flag
22:11 useless-afk no, 30mohms is worse than 18mohms
22:12 useless-afk 2x the resistance, twice the internal heating
22:13 useless-afk http://www.mouser.com/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Aluminum-Electrolytic-Capacitors/Aluminum-Electrolytic-Capacitors-Leaded/_/N-75hqwZscv7?P=1z0wqs3Z1z0wrk0Z1z0wqfaZ1z0yp75Z1z0yoh6Z1z0z7l5Z1z0wxct&Ns=Capacitance|1
22:13 Tom_itx i'm working on checking for virus here if i don't respond
22:15 useless-afk this nichicon looks nice at 3300ufd ==>> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/UHM0J332MHD6/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22VnKtxyD4xsRh0is%252bN0viCg%3d
22:15 useless-afk it is scheduled to be discontinued
22:16 Tom_itx wonder why
22:16 useless-afk they do not spec a lifetime
22:17 Tom_itx i think i can remove the caps ok. i did 4 on the practice board just fine
22:17 Tom_itx added solder to the tip and put flux on the pad
22:19 useless-afk i'd go with the http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/UHM0J332MHD6/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22VnKtxyD4xsRh0is%252bN0viCg%3d ,, they are 3900ufd, 10,000 hour, 2.6amps, 18 milliohms, 12.5 dia 20mm tall
22:19 useless-afk and they aren't pricey
22:21 useless-afk lookie at line 2 ==>> http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=15&y=14&lang=en&site=us&KeyWords=EEU-FR0J392
22:21 useless-afk 45 cents vs 69 at mouser
22:21 Tom_itx same cap?
22:21 useless-afk and better data display to parametic search on
22:21 useless-afk same cap
22:22 useless-afk well, nearly, it's ~ 1/16 taller
22:22 useless-afk oops, better call them on that, 500 min order
22:22 Tom_itx what about mouser?
22:24 useless-afk mouser's page for my choice is http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic/EEU-FR0J392B/?qs=%2fha2pyFadui1wLzFjnn0mKhB09B4gqHeGcvHQ%252b%2f1bn7Ng8S%252bVNX%252blQ%3d%3d
22:24 useless-afk at qty 500 they are about the same as digikey's min 500 order on that item <shrug>
22:25 useless-afk i'd get the mouser url i just gave, if it physically fits the mobo you have
22:25 Tom_itx problem brousing right now kat
22:26 useless-afk they are 3900ufd, 10,000 hour, 2.6amps, 18 milliohms, 12.5mm dia 20mm tall
22:26 Tom_itx if several are wired together one odd one shouldn't matter would it?
22:26 useless-afk 10,000 hr is 416 days @ 24-7 operation
22:26 useless-afk odd one?
22:27 Tom_itx a new one at 3900uf
22:27 Tom_itx i doubt i change them all
22:27 Tom_itx depends how it goes
22:27 useless-afk good procedure is to replace them all, i stress that, they are 65 cents each, i didn't pick pricey ones
22:28 useless-afk if the mobo was built with 1000hr caps, and they are startng to go, the next one will go next month, and you'll be soldering on it again
22:28 Tom_itx ok
22:28 useless-afk i picked you some 10,000 hr caps, i read the pdf datasheets
22:29 useless-afk and 18 milliohm is pretty respectable
22:31 useless-afk last week i went looking for an edge connector for Tektronix 7000 series oscopes, last i heard some guy was having them made in China for $28 each, i found some at digikey for $9 each, they fit perfectly, no wait time
22:32 Tom_itx you mind posting that again?
22:32 useless-afk seems the Tektronix DC508 led display isn't made any more too, there's not even data sheets for it any more, i might just make some from scratch
22:32 Tom_L i can search on this pc
22:33 useless-afk mouser's page for my choice is http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic/EEU-FR0J392B/?qs=%2fha2pyFadui1wLzFjnn0mKhB09B4gqHeGcvHQ%252b%2f1bn7Ng8S%252bVNX%252blQ%3d%3d
22:33 Tom_L so i can get probably 25 of em
22:34 Tom_L should do both boards
22:34 useless-afk basically, they are like the cap you first picked, but the FR long-life series instead of the FM series
22:35 Tom_L looking again i only see 6 that are that tall
22:35 Tom_L the others must be a different value
22:35 Tom_L for another part of the supply
22:37 Tom_L shipping will be the killer
22:37 Tom_L since i don't have anything else to get atm
22:38 useless-afk been a lot worse if you'd ordered from .cz ;-)
22:38 Tom_itx i don't use this pc to order from anyway
22:39 Tom_itx i think the other one is ok
22:40 Tom_L those will be ok even though the originals are 3300uf?
22:40 useless-afk ok, since you have diffeent values to order, i think if you get anything on this page, you'll be good ==>> http://www.mouser.com/Panasonic/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Aluminum-Electrolytic-Capacitors/Aluminum-Electrolytic-Capacitors-Leaded/_/N-75hqwZscv7?P=1z0z7l5Z1yzvjj0Z1z0yp75Z1z0yoh6&Ns=Capacitance|1
22:40 useless-afk yeas, electrolytics are spec'd +/-20% ,, so 3300 = 3900
22:41 Tom_L i'll check the other values tomorrow
22:41 useless-afk you can get the 3300 if you want
22:41 Tom_L i put it back in the case for now
22:41 useless-afk 14 pages there to look over
22:42 useless-afk sad, i datamined digikey years ago, because they gave the most data in the search engine they have, and it's in Tiggr, and she isn't up and running for anyone
22:43 useless-afk i mean i logged all the data on every electronics part they carry
22:43 Tom_itx you should have kept it
22:43 Tom_itx it changes weekly though probably
22:43 useless-afk ESR doesn't
22:44 useless-afk oem parts numbers don't
22:44 useless-afk atm, i don't even know what puter the data is on
22:47 Tom_itx gonna get some sleep now
22:47 Tom_itx thanks
22:47 useless-afk k
22:55 rue_house TEST
22:55 rue_test REPLY-TO-TEST
22:55 rue_house REPLY-TO-REPLY-TO-TEST
22:56 rue_test CONFIRMATION OF REPLY
22:56 rue_house CONFIRMATION OF CONFIRMATION OF REPLY
22:56 rue_test THANKS
22:56 rue_house YOUR-WELCOME
22:56 rue_test NO I'M RUE_TEST
22:56 rue_house MY ERROR
23:20 useless-afk i'm useless
23:26 rue_house hows that
23:27 rue_house hey I started all sorts of display stuff for you power supply, I lost track of how you were gonna set up the hardware last
23:27 rue_house we did so many changes
23:30 rue_house t.d# ls /media
23:30 rue_house cdrom cdrom0 cdrom1 floppy floppy0 floppy1
23:34 useless-afk you did changes on my power supply?
23:35 useless-afk i looked at the stack of 10 pcb i was going to haveto ratsnest for the power, and 10 i'd haveto ratsnest with 8 7-seg on each, and skidded to a stop
23:42 useless-afk if i'd been able to etch and drill them, that would be great, but etching them with no drill, not good
23:42 useless-afk ratsnesting 10 dip40's, 8 7-segs, and other parts, could take a month
23:43 useless-afk and that's only half of it
23:45 rue_house if you start now a month will fly by before you know it
23:45 rue_house its been atleast two months since we started
23:47 useless-afk it's now Spring, winter projects will slowly get put on hold
23:47 useless-afk i imagine by the time i get back to it, the batteries will be dead of old age
23:49 useless-afk i feel like there's a bunch of black holes all thru me where i stopped being because people didn't want me to be me
23:50 useless-afk "it's made with pink string, you stupid fuck, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA"
23:50 useless-afk i have literally $1000's in parts i'll never put on a pcb now
23:50 rue_house you have the logs you know it didn't go down like that
23:51 useless-afk different words, same effect, i was gutted
23:51 useless-afk riff made tools, you made tools, i got laughed at, you and he didn't get laughed at
23:52 rue_house we were, we just didn't stop becuse of it
23:52 useless-afk i did not see anyone ever laugh at you or him for making tools
23:53 useless-afk some laughed at him for living in a cow pasteur, i didn't