#garfield Logs

Mar 23 2013

#garfield Calendar


00:42 any83274966 ?
00:46 rue_shop2 cleaning up shop, fixing vise
00:46 rue_shop2 its a metric vise
00:47 any83274966 won't clamp american stuff, eh?
00:56 rue_shop2 all the bolts that wore out are metric
00:57 any83274966 you are in a metric country, that shouldn't be a problem
00:57 rue_shop2 which is good, cause 5/16" is a bit bigger and I can rethread
00:57 any83274966 if it is a problem, re-tap the holes?
00:57 rue_shop2 haha finding metric up here is a pain
00:57 rue_shop2 I did
00:57 rue_shop2 its all good
05:32 any52587312 Saturday
05:32 any52587312 Overcast with a chance of a thunderstorm and rain showers, then a chance of a thunderstorm and a chance of rain
05:32 jennie hi
05:32 any52587312 hi
05:35 jennie whats up
05:35 any52587312 me , rain, noise, wierd dreams
05:36 jennie rain where ?
05:36 any52587312 outside, luckily
05:41 jennie ah
05:42 any52587312 http://classic.wunderground.com/radar/radblast.asp?ID=BMX&region=c4&lat=33.59627914&lon=-86.32241821
11:07 Tom_itx http://www.intellicast.com/National/Radar/Current.aspx?animate=true&location=USKS0523
11:12 any04541118 your weather is feeling a bit blue today, Tom?
11:13 any04541118 this is whyfor we have indoor projects :-)
11:16 any04541118 technically speaking, is a oscope designed primarily for a single shot capture, like the 7612 or 7912, or even the 7104, truely an OSCILLoscope?
11:19 rue_house it just scopes the oscillations for that period of time
11:20 any04541118 but there are no oscillations, the "osccill" part of the name refers to the triangle wave in the timebase, not what's being viewed
11:20 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images/p1040884.jpg <-- jennie , is that you?
11:20 jennie yes'
11:21 jennie you here ?
11:21 y04541118 doesn't see
11:21 rue_house I have an hour before kids robotics starts
11:22 jennie ok , lets do it ?
11:22 rue_house jennie, tip, dont say hi, just tell me what you need to, I get like 8 'hi's per day from random people that aren't there to reply to
11:22 any04541118 and that can be REALLY annoying
11:22 jennie ok
11:23 rue_house brb, need to make breakfast
11:23 jennie but how do I know that you are here or not ?
11:23 rue_house tell me where your at while I'm making breakfast
11:23 any04541118 you can't
11:23 rue_house if you see my nick, then it comes up on my computer
11:23 rue_house if you say my name, I look for what you said to me
11:24 rue_house and if you type large blocks of text, I'll read the start and the end
11:24 rue_house if anything is particularily unclear from that I may try to read the middle
11:25 any04541118 they still cannot unload this 3 kva ups for $300 : http://www.ebay.com/itm/110543659853
11:26 any04541118 i expect there's two problems, 1) people canot arrange their own shipping, 2) while there are 96v nicads made, they are too pricey and humans don't see you can make a 96v battery with 8 12v batteries
11:31 any04541118 $10 ??? Liebert UpStation S 15.0kVA, 18.0kVA UPS Battery
11:31 any04541118 15kva at 12v = 1,259 amps, there is no way that battery's 1/4 inch spade terminals can take that
11:32 any04541118 $10 ?? Sola Network 600KVA, UPS 600VA UPS Battery
11:41 any04541118 very stylish UPS, never seen one like this : http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apc-Surt015-Smart-ups-Rt-5-6kva-208v-Pdu-Kit-W-3-Nema-L6-20-/330873015582
11:42 rue_house are you gonna wait for hte price to come down andbuy it
11:42 any04541118 that last one? no
11:50 Tom_itx rue_house
11:50 Tom_itx hi
11:51 rue_house >>
11:51 rue_house ---
11:51 rue_house >_>
11:51 rue_house <_<
11:51 rue_house 8-|
11:51 Tom_itx O_o
11:52 any04541118 spam with smiles is ok, just don't say "marshmellows" or someone will call in the ircops
11:54 rue_house kat, hwo am I gonna make an easy-built parting tool holder?
11:55 Tom_itx clamp it in your holder
11:55 any04541118 hefty blocks of steel and some grade 8 bolts
11:55 Tom_itx cut a piece of tool steel back to make a cutoff
11:55 Tom_itx any number of ways
11:56 rue_house hmm if I took a peice of angle iron and just put a shoulder in to set the bit on and clamped it in, it might be ok
11:57 any04541118 you want zero vibration at the cutting tip
11:57 any04541118 and zero bending under pressure
11:58 rue_house but nothings parfect and anything is better than nothing
11:58 Tom_itx do you have cutoff blades?
11:58 rue_house yes
11:59 Tom_itx http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://littlemachineshop.com/Products/Images/480/480.1701.jpg&imgrefurl=http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID%3D1551&h=363&w=480&sz=61&tbnid=mBCKuPntkBJ6VM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=119&zoom=1&usg=__imkQbwcWwcg3IQJfOvhlIa3PgJE=&docid=qVuY7u2gZVO4RM&sa=X&ei=VtxNUbCrCYqFrQGY2IFA&ved=0CG8Q9QEwAg&dur=719
12:01 rue_house http://www.kmstools.com/parting-blade-holder-2585 <- that is the one I ordered and they cant get me
12:01 Tom_itx http://www.etotheipiplusone.net/?p=177
12:01 Tom_itx i don't like that one
12:01 Tom_itx it could slip
12:02 any04541118 http://www.kmstools.com/parting-blade-holder-2585 <<== clamps the top and bottom of the cuttoff
12:03 rue_house usually they are in a little dovetai type capture
12:03 any04541118 http://www.etotheipiplusone.net/?p=177 <<== [11:42] <any04541118> hefty blocks of steel and some grade 8 bolts
12:03 Tom_itx oh, it's shown 90deg from it's work position
12:03 any04541118 i would so not use aluminum in any toolpost
12:04 any04541118 alum coldflows, and you may need to get butch with the grade-8's, ripping the threads out of the aluminum
12:05 rue_house na I can cast alum, but I dont wantot use it, too soft
12:05 Tom_itx temper it
12:06 rue_house heat it up red and dunk it in oil?
12:06 rue_house :)
12:06 any04541118 red hot aluminum? take a pic!
12:07 Tom_itx http://www.best-b2b.com/Products/896/905-2/tool-holder_434480.html
12:07 Tom_itx insert cutter
12:11 Tom_itx http://www.kennametal.com/en/products.html?XMLArg=3577.xml&MMNumber=1094618&fromloc=srch&parentId=1094618&sid=1214DB2923CE
12:11 Tom_itx insert supplier
12:12 rue_house I think having some solid squarestock would help me
12:12 Tom_itx tool steel?
12:12 Tom_itx my surplus guy has all sizes of that
12:13 Tom_itx i use them for shims alot
12:14 rue_house no just nmild steel
12:16 jennie I havent put Opamp yet
12:16 rue_house brb
12:17 jennie ok
12:17 y04541118 reheats dinner for l
12:38 rue_house jennie, where are ya
12:38 jennie here only
12:38 rue_house I'm getting back on track
12:38 jennie ok, thanks
12:38 rue_house so, you need to make 3 driver circuits
12:38 rue_house start with the output and work back
12:39 rue_house leave out ...oh hmm
12:39 rue_house I should build this
12:39 rue_house help test it
12:39 rue_house leave out the opamp, and the input transistor behind it, I'll catch up
12:41 rue_house you said it was a '97 seagate?
12:43 jennie yes
12:47 rue_shop2 hmm so many drives...
12:49 jennie why does it matter ?
12:50 rue_shop2 I want to find a drive thats close
12:51 jennie for yourself ?
12:52 rue_shop2 hmm, one of the bank drives they drilled out, missed the platters,... heh
12:55 rue_shop2 ok drive is ready
12:55 jennie ok
12:55 jennie ready ?
12:55 rue_shop2 my coils are 3.4ohms
12:56 jennie Mine are 6ohms
12:58 jennie what about the resistances before TIP transistor s?
13:00 rue_shop2 hu?
13:00 rue_shop2 holding force is reasonable at 1A
13:01 rue_shop2 it'll take me a bit to find transistors
13:01 jennie I have got 68ohm@1watt and 47ohm@1watt
13:01 jennie what resistances to put at base of TIP41 and TIP42
13:02 rue_shop2 ah
13:02 rue_shop2 hold on
13:02 jennie :-)
13:02 rue_shop2 where is that diagram
13:02 jennie ok
13:02 jennie http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images/p1040884.jpg
13:04 rue_shop2 we need to get hte current limiter working first....
13:05 jennie ok
13:08 jennie then what to connect
13:09 rue_shop2 hold on, Im setting up the bench
13:09 jennie ok :-)
13:10 rue_shop2 yo uhave everything assembled x3 less the lm339
13:10 rue_shop2 damn, did youhave any 10k resistors and .01uF caps?
13:11 jennie yeah
13:11 jennie I have
13:12 jennie I havent put resistors yet
13:12 jennie as their values are not in schematic
13:20 rue_shop2 describe which resistors
13:20 jennie at base of TIP41 and TIP42
13:21 rue_shop2 ok
13:21 rue_shop2 you have to be a bit patiaent I cant get a machine running and I have to go bac for th aacross the shop to talk
13:22 jennie ok, I am here , waiting
13:22 jennie :-)
13:22 jennie which machine is not running ?
13:27 rue_shop2 the one at the electronics station
13:28 rue_shop2 found a tip42
13:28 rue_shop2 looking for a 41
13:32 jennie ok-)
13:35 jennie instead of 1n4004 I got 1n4007 and 1n5408 diodes
13:36 rue_shop2 thats ok
13:36 rue_shop2 do you know how to calculate the value for an led?
13:38 jennie what value ?
13:38 jennie which one
13:40 rue_soldering getting closer
13:40 rue_soldering whats the schematic url again?
13:41 jennie http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images/p1040884.jpg
13:42 rue_soldering 1R...
13:42 jennie 1R for both transistors ?
13:42 rue_soldering did you now how to calc the value for an leds resistor?
13:42 rue_soldering no
13:42 rue_soldering if you remeber one was about 68 ohms and the other about 72
13:42 jennie yes
13:43 rue_soldering ok
13:43 jennie but which one to 68 and whch one to 72 ?
13:43 rue_soldering see the current I have on the base?
13:43 rue_soldering 110mA?
13:43 jennie yes
13:43 rue_soldering ok, you have 8V and 110mA, so whats the resistor need to be?
13:44 jennie 72
13:44 jennie but I have got here only 67 ohms and 47ohms Resistances for 1 watt
13:45 rue_soldering for the bottom transistor you only have 5V
13:45 rue_soldering so, at5V, whats 110mA
13:45 jennie 45R
13:48 rue_soldering :)
13:48 jennie :-)
13:51 rue_shop2 wqarg, no window managert and it goes and brings up a downlaod manager I couldn't close
14:02 rue_shop2 arg, my poor cat just wants to spend some time w3ith me
14:05 rue_shop2 if he didnh't mind comming to me it would be fine, but he wants me to go outside
14:06 jennie ok
14:07 jennie I am waiting
14:10 rue_shop2 yea
14:10 rue_shop2 I could work faster if I had the datasheets, chat, and schematic all in the same place
14:10 rue_shop2 I lost the 1R resistor I had
14:11 rue_shop2 and I lost the schematic again
14:12 jennie ok
14:12 jennie http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images/p1040884.jpg
14:12 jennie I am making schematic for you in diptrace
14:12 jennie just few minutes more to complete
14:15 rue_shop2 tell ya what, dont wait, come back in 6 hours I'll tell ya what I came up with
14:18 jennie I will come in 6 hours
14:18 jennie but till then what I should do ?
14:23 rue_shop2 if you want, find the really detaield stepper motor howto that shows you schematics of current limiting for driving stepper motors
14:23 rue_shop2 its from a university prof or soemthing
14:23 rue_shop2 the circuit I'm doin ghere is bascilly the same thing
14:24 Tom_itx Mr Jones
14:24 Tom_itx http://homepage.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/index.html
14:25 any04541118 http://designerthinking.com/i-20_wreck.html
14:28 any04541118 it's so neat how my camera can take pics of things that exist only in my imagianation, that no one else can see
15:38 jennie hi
16:14 any04541118 hi
16:18 any04541118 An Associated Press analysis of federal payment records found that the government is still making monthly payments to relatives of Civil War veterans - 148 years after the conflict ended.
16:18 any04541118 At the 10 year anniversary of the start of the Iraq war, more than $40 billion a year are going to compensate veterans and survivors from the Spanish-American War from 1898, World War I and II, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the two Iraq campaigns and the Afghanistan conflict. And those costs are rising rapidly.
16:20 any04541118 So far, the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and the first Persian Gulf conflict in the early 1990s are costing about $12 billion a year to compensate those who have left military service or family members of those who have died.
16:20 any04541118 Those post-service compensation costs have totaled more than $50 billion since 2003, not including expenses of medical care and other benefits provided to veterans, and are poised to grow for many years to come.
16:20 any04541118 The new veterans are filing for disabilities at historic rates, with about 45 percent of those from Iraq and Afghanistan seeking compensation for injuries. Many are seeking compensation for a variety of ailments at once.
16:20 any04541118 this may not be a problem with robots
16:20 any04541118 It's been 40 years since the U.S. ended its involvement in the Vietnam War, and yet payments for the conflict are still rising.
16:20 any04541118 Now above $22 billion annually, Vietnam compensation costs are roughly twice the size of the FBI's annual budget.
16:21 any04541118 World War I, which ended 94 years ago, continues to cost taxpayers about $20 million every year. World War II? $5 billion.
16:22 any04541118 Korean War costs appear to be leveling off at about $2.8 billion per year.
16:32 any04541118 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
16:53 rue_shop2 jennie, problem, the driver transistors are only dropping to 1.5V when saturated, which is causing them to dissipate a lot of heat
16:53 jennie hey rue
16:53 jennie I have made something
16:53 jennie http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12488764/img/Anonymous/big-driver.jpg
16:53 jennie rue_shop2: we can put heat sinks ?
16:55 any04541118 that's not what rue drew
16:55 jennie http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images/p1040884.jpg is what rue drew
16:55 any04541118 i know
16:56 any04541118 if you meant to redraw what he drew, you made an error
16:56 jennie oh where ?
16:57 any04541118 the top of the 2k pot
16:58 any04541118 but congrats, humans would have simply begun attacking me, and nevermind about the error
16:59 jennie ok fixed
16:59 jennie uploading new one
17:01 jennie http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12489504/img/Anonymous/big-driver.jpg
17:01 y04541118 has a splitting sinus headache and isn't going to look at more schematics or datasheets t
17:09 rue_shop2 jennie, interesting side effect, by adding a diode, the circuit acts like a smps and has a higher output current than what you put in
17:10 rue_shop2 jennie, heatsinks are a hack fix, I'd rather make the circuit work properly
17:10 rue_shop2 ok let me tell you about the correct lm339 pins
17:10 jennie_ ok
17:11 rue_shop2 pot goes to the - input, the feedback from the 1R goes to the + input
17:11 rue_shop2 BUT
17:11 rue_shop2 between the 1R and the + input you have to add a filter
17:11 rue_shop2 I'm using 10k ohms in series, with a .1uF from the + input to ground
17:12 rue_shop2 which lowers the freq too much
17:14 rue_shop2 if I raise the freq tho, the loss on the transistor gets too high and there is too much heat
17:14 rue_shop2 hmm
17:14 rue_shop2 I hope this dosn't need fets
17:17 Tom_itx rue what's that graphics program...
17:17 Tom_itx inkscape?
17:17 Tom_itx maybe
17:17 jennie which one Tom_itx ?
17:20 rue_shop2 jennie, I'm not sure what to do about this...
17:21 jennie run it with heatsink ?
17:22 Tom_L rue is stumped?
17:22 rue_shop2 jennie, do you understand why a heatsink is astupid hack?
17:23 jennie no
17:23 Tom_itx waste of energy in heat
17:23 rue_shop2 the transistor can handle the amount of power the motor needs just fine without a heatsiink
17:24 rue_shop2 the heat is from the circuit not operating properly
17:24 rue_shop2 microsoft made windows 95 programs run on 98 with a thing called windows on windows,
17:25 rue_shop2 as versions went up windows on windoews uses windows on windows to run over windows on windows to run programs
17:25 rue_shop2 its not a fix, its a hack
17:25 rue_shop2 I dont want to hack it, I want ot make it work right
17:25 Tom_itx but we're hackers
17:26 rue_shop2 pull a rif and do whatever you want, I'm going to sit down with this and see if I can make it work right
17:26 Tom_itx what is it you're working on?
17:26 jennie ok, I am here
17:26 Tom_itx haven't been following
17:26 rue_shop2 and I'm going to keep cleaning my shop while I'm doing it
17:27 jennie Tom_itx: http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12489504/img/Anonymous/big-driver.jpg
17:28 Tom_itx what's wrong with the schematic?
17:29 Tom_itx i thought you were working on a 3 phase driver?
17:30 jennie we have to make 3 circuits like this
18:33 rue_shop2 thats the parts for the driver
18:33 rue_shop2 cause we need ~1.2A
18:34 rue_shop2 with drive high, low, or open
18:34 rue_shop2 and current control
18:35 rue_shop2 if were gonna hack it, we should put 74ls244 in parallel, what would that be, about 12 of them?
18:37 rue_shop2 I didn't have any tip41
18:37 rue_shop2 I wonder what the gain is the mje3055 I'm using is
18:37 rue_shop2 jennie, did you understand how to finish the lm339 connections with the info I gave you?
18:38 jennie yes
18:38 rue_shop2 20 to 70, hmm
18:39 rue_shop2 110mA * 20 2.2A so its saturated
18:39 rue_shop2 oh hmm 1V saturation
18:40 rue_shop2 dont have datasheets for tip41 and tip 42
18:40 jennie I have
18:40 jennie let me show you
18:40 rue_shop2 I can get them, just dont have them
18:40 jennie http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/TI/TIP42.pdf
18:40 jennie http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/TI/TIP41C.pdf
18:41 rue_shop2 oh my
18:41 rue_shop2 1.5V saturation
18:42 rue_shop2 ok, uh
18:42 rue_shop2 that actaully explains the heat
18:42 rue_shop2 its not the rest of the circuit then
18:43 jennie ok :-)
18:43 rue_shop2 Vce(sat) should be 0.7 on a good transistor
18:44 rue_shop2 this wont be an efficient circuit
18:44 rue_shop2 :)
18:47 rue_shop2 if we drive at 1.2A, 1.5V drop means almost 2W heat
18:47 rue_shop2 and that difinitly needs a heatsink
18:47 jennie i will use 12V 35aH battery
18:47 rue_shop2 those transisotrs will lose the same power
18:54 rue_shop2 ok I'm cheating I put my scope on a 'working' drive
18:55 rue_shop2 they use 50Khz pwm
18:55 rue_shop2 for the current limiting
18:55 rue_shop2 they use 12V across it
18:56 rue_shop2 about 1/3 duty
18:56 rue_shop2 er 2/3
18:57 rue_shop2 hmm
18:57 rue_shop2 the open state isn't verry long
18:58 rue_shop2 hmm
19:03 rue_shop2 hmm
19:04 rue_shop2 I think this idea needs a better pwm system
19:05 jennie also where 1k will go in LM339
19:05 jennie ?
19:06 any04541118 how do you get 1.5v sat on a TIP41 ??
19:08 any04541118 look at Fig2 of the datasheet: 1amp collector current with 400ma base drive = 0.5Vce drop
19:09 any04541118 actually, even lower than that
19:10 any04541118 with 1 amp collector, you don't get to a entire volt drop till you lower base drive to under 20ma
19:11 any04541118 you do need to zoom in on that graph to see it well tho, make it at least 1/2 screen
19:11 any04541118 at 1amp collector current, gain is still 100
19:12 y04541118 notes no one heard her, a
19:23 rue_house didn't look at the chart
19:23 rue_house but I'm only useing 110mA base drive
19:26 jennie sorry to interrupt but there is confusion about either one of 1R going to LM339 , you said that rue_shop2 pot goes to the - input, the feedback from the 1R goes to the + input having 10l and 0.1uf cap
19:27 jennie http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12490401/img/Anonymous/con1.jpg
19:28 rue_house the bottom driver transistor has a 1R to ground
19:28 rue_house from the top of that 1R you want a 10k to the input of the lm339
19:29 rue_house see the "1k" beside the 3906?
19:29 rue_house that resistor is 1k
19:29 any04541118 odd thing about sinus and pain meds not working , and getting drunk ...... after a while you don't care about the getting drunk part any more
19:30 rue_house jennie, I modded the drawing I need to repost
19:30 any04541118 more storms tonite, likely *all* civilization will be cut off here again
19:31 rue_house kat, you have a lot of storms there
19:31 jennie http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12490416/img/Anonymous/complete.jpg
19:32 rue_house thats right
19:32 jennie :-)
19:32 jennie thanks a lot
19:32 jennie but both resistances are 1R correct ?
19:32 rue_house the only 1R you have there is at the bottom of the driver
19:33 y04541118 can beat and harvest urls like /sh/sxq3n6jdk9k1ca3/bYngD4r68h/TM%20500%20%20Stuff/TM%20500%20Moduals/Signal%20and%20function%20Generators/pg506_sm.pdf?token_hash=AAEDObA5LA6WwzWUumX7EDhYcp70Ja6rz2Hq6mSqZo
19:33 any04541118 even when drunk
19:33 jennie ok
19:34 rue_house I like to hear abut the things your building kat
19:35 rue_house jennie, the other thing I did was to add 10k resistors between the base and emitter of every resistor
19:35 any04541118 rue, so you can make fun of me?
19:35 rue_house jennie, hey, what did you think of that transistor tutorial? did you learn anything?
19:35 jennie yeah, that is good
19:36 jennie I was having bad time in understanding those
19:36 jennie but now many concepts cleared
19:36 rue_house cool
19:36 rue_house most circuits use common emitter, the other are almost just acedemic now
19:37 rue_house the 10k resistors help turn off the transistors
19:37 rue_house squashes stray currents
19:37 any04541118 my dream of having a hybrid-electric car here is dead, the Geo Metro is cut in half, cut down, mostly taken apart, and spread out over 100 ft apart
19:38 jennie but putting it in schematic
19:38 rue_house kat, I'm still not sure how to deal with batteries
19:38 jennie by the way why this link have both negative and positive supply going in transistors in common base http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_4/7.html
19:38 rue_house thats th common base amp
19:39 jennie also most of schematics in google image ' common base' have negative and positive going in base
19:39 jennie how + and - can go in base ?
19:39 any04541118 how to deal with them?
19:39 rue_house remember the 3 rules
19:39 rue_house jennie, they draw the circuits badly
19:39 jennie ahh
19:39 jennie ok
19:39 rue_house redraw it with - on bottom, + on top
19:39 rue_house in on left, out on right
19:40 rue_house I find it easier to follow the loop
19:40 rue_house the best book I have uses all PNP and badly drawn circuits like those on that page
19:43 jennie yes
19:43 jennie all google images are like that
19:43 rue_house 2W is horrible
19:44 any04541118 [19:10] <rue_house> didn't look at the chart
19:45 rue_house oh yea
19:45 rue_house kat, 110mA drive, 1.2A current, whats Vca?
19:45 rue_house Vce?
19:46 y04541118 stumbles around looking for the
19:46 jennie http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/12490432/img/Anonymous/complete1.jpg added 10K resistors at each transistors base and emitter
19:47 any04541118 according to figure 2 page 3 , 0.8v
19:47 any04541118 no, less
19:47 any04541118 if i can believe this, 0.080v
19:48 rue_house damn, Im using mje3055 cause I dont ahve any tip41
19:48 any04541118 3055 is *real* lossy
19:48 rue_house hmm
19:48 any04541118 i've had to put 3 AMPS into the BASE to get them to saturate at 10 amps
19:48 rue_house oh damn, we COULD have gone fets on the low side
19:48 any04541118 2955 is even worse
19:49 rue_house I didn't think to mix
19:49 any04541118 you could go p-chan fets on the high side too, it's 12v
19:49 rue_house jennie, have any mosfets?
19:49 rue_house I dont have that many good P channel mosfets
19:49 any04541118 i dunno you will get lower power dissipation with a fet than the TIP41/42
19:49 jennie yes I have mosfets
19:50 rue_house but using fets for the bottom would improve eff and give better siwtching performance fo rhte current control
19:50 rue_house jennie, what pn?
19:50 any04541118 the higher the freq, and lower the gate/base volts, the better bipolars look
19:50 jennie STP55NF06L
19:50 rue_house ww
19:50 rue_house those are crazy power fets iirc
19:50 any04541118 you'll need extra drive to pull the n-chan fets up off gnd
19:51 rue_house the pn2222 and 3906 will work fine
19:51 any04541118 they are not as good as IRFX44's
19:51 any04541118 err
19:51 any04541118 IRFZ44
19:52 jennie i have IRF840
19:52 rue_house jennie, the 55N60's are sweeeeet! have 3?
19:52 any04541118 IRF840 sounds like 3 ohms
19:52 rue_house even at 5V drive I think they would run cold
19:53 jennie I have 5 STP55nf06
19:53 rue_house sweeeeet
19:53 rue_house lets switch up and use those
19:53 jennie :-)
19:53 jennie where to connect them ?
19:53 any04541118 you cannot drive them to 5v with the cpu pins, or with ttl chips, neither will charge that much gate capacitance to 5v in time
19:54 rue_house jennie, give me some time to rework, I have some toher ideas
19:54 rue_house kat, at 5V drive, the 55N60
19:54 jennie ok :-)
19:55 any04541118 rue 50khz, 50-50 duty cycle, you have 10 microsec to get them turned on and back off
19:55 rue_house 15A
19:55 any04541118 i expect you will need more than 100ma
19:57 rue_house I think this will work
19:57 any04541118 ok
19:58 rue_house now, how to deal with more proper pwm control
19:58 rue_house maybe i dont need to
19:58 y04541118 has dibs on saying "i told ya so" when you are using 12v at an amp to drive those g
19:59 rue_house the PNP's will work ok for the high side
19:59 rue_house may need heatsinks
19:59 rue_house and low side can get a totempole driver and go from there
20:01 rue_house jennie, find and show me (this is a test) a diagram of a 'modified sine wave'
20:01 jennie just a second
20:01 any04541118 this planet needs a pleasant bot that can answer "110mA drive, 1.2A current, whats Vca?", but she's still be just as useless as i am
20:01 jennie http://www.m0ukd.com/electronics/modified_sine_wave_inverter/scope2.jpg
20:02 rue_house nope, try again
20:02 any04541118 eww
20:03 y04541118 has such a pic on her euseless webp
20:03 rue_house kat, I think it is modifed sine,w ith the drive signals split
20:04 rue_house jennie, mod to the circuit
20:04 rue_house move the bottom diode to attach to the emmiter of the driver transistor
20:05 rue_house this keeps the op-amp in the circuit while the transistor is off
20:05 rue_house kat, or does the polarity reverse
20:06 jennie TIP41 or TIp42 ?
20:06 any04541118 i'm drinking, because all the otc sinus meds didn't work, you want me to do engineering now??
20:06 rue_house nevermind, the motor induction flips the polarity across the resistor, it wont make a diff
20:07 rue_house or does it
20:12 rue_house http://www.divms.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/index.html
20:12 rue_house http://www.divms.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/current.html
20:13 rue_house ah yea
20:13 rue_house the bottom diode shouldn't go to ground, it should go to the emitter of the npn driver transistor
20:13 rue_house (figure 4.7)
20:14 rue_house or not, (figure 4.10 is more like where were up to)
20:20 rue_house jennie, modified sine?
20:20 jennie looking
20:21 jennie but what about above one ?
20:21 jennie it is alos modified sine
20:21 rue_house you only posted 1 linkj
20:21 rue_house and its not a proper modifed sine wave
20:22 jennie http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/image_cache/http2.bp.blogspot.comQPtbK4z0J9ET9vKPWz0XsIAAAAAAAAAJgqVY0cYR1vZIs320waveform.gif
20:22 jennie http://electroschematics.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/MODIFIED-SINE-WAVE.png
20:22 rue_house yea!
20:22 rue_house thats it
20:22 rue_house ok, so, if you have a 3 phase power signal, whats the angle offset between the 3 phases
20:25 jennie 60
20:25 rue_house -`-_ <- thats sine, 360 degrees
20:25 jennie ?
20:25 rue_house 120
20:25 jennie or 180
20:25 jennie ahh
20:25 jennie 360/2
20:25 rue_house /3
20:25 jennie 360/3 = 12
20:25 jennie bad maths :-(
20:26 rue_house so, draw out a chart, with say every cm being another 45 degrees, and with everything evenly spaced, draw out a modified sine wave
20:26 rue_house then draw the other two phases below it, with each starting 120 degrees more along
20:27 rue_house you should get a trinary table out of it
20:27 rue_house -1, 0, 1
20:27 rue_house for each 45 degrees, for all 3 phases
20:27 e_house thinks this is righ
20:29 jennie I have to learn more to do what you said above ;-9
20:29 jennie :'-(
20:30 rue_house :) ok
20:30 rue_house so
20:30 rue_house find a dialgram of a sine wave with the angles marked on it
20:30 jennie ok :-)
20:31 jennie http://www.jiscdigitalmedia.ac.uk/images/ppos-03-sinewave.jpg
20:31 rue_house ok
20:32 rue_house so
20:32 rue_house see how at 180 the height of hte circle hits 0 again?
20:33 jennie yes
20:33 jennie at 180 it is 0
20:33 rue_house ok
20:33 rue_house so, you have 3 happening at once
20:33 rue_house one is 0 at 0 degrees, one of them is 0 at 120 degrees, and the other is 0 at 240 degrees
20:33 rue_house for their starting points
20:35 rue_house hmm this works better if its chopped up different
20:35 m_itx plops down in the c
20:35 rue_house maybe you should take some graph paper to this :)
20:35 Tom_itx what's up?
20:35 rue_house Tom_itx, we need to convert a sine wave to trinary
20:35 rue_house 3 phases
20:35 rue_house -1, 0 1
20:36 Tom_itx or make a phase delay sine wave
20:36 rue_house jennie, how are you at C?
20:36 Tom_itx then run it thru a schmitt trigger
20:36 jennie I am beginner at
20:36 rue_house just on paper
20:36 jennie C
20:36 Tom_itx how do you know thebear?
20:36 rue_house jennie, ok, show me a hello world program
20:38 jennie main()
20:38 jennie {
20:38 jennie printf("hello, world");
20:38 jennie }
20:38 rue_house almost :)
20:38 jennie I know something about most of things but I do not know in deep about anything :-(
20:38 rue_house here is a site to post code,
20:38 jennie codepad
20:38 rue_house actually depending on your compiler, that might work
20:38 rue_house http://paste.debian.net/
20:39 jennie we have to include stdio.h files
20:39 rue_house so make hello world work
20:39 rue_house thats one of the things I was reffering to
20:40 Tom_itx #include stdio.h
20:40 jennie http://codepad.org/PE7JOJnC
20:40 rue_house does it compile and run ok?
20:42 rue_house :) cmon, I'll help but I dont want to get more than 2 steps ahead of ya
20:44 rue_house jennie,
20:44 rue_house ?
20:44 jennie ye
20:44 rue_house does it compile and run ok?
20:44 rue_house for you
20:44 rue_house cmon, trying to keep yes/no down to a 4 second turn around
20:45 jennie http://codepad.org/mkSMQQYf
20:45 jennie it is compiling at running
20:45 jennie :-)
20:45 rue_house ok
20:45 rue_house now make it say hello world 360 times
20:45 jennie loops
20:45 jennie let me think
20:45 rue_house yup, know what to do?
20:45 jennie I know what to use , but do not know how to use
20:45 jennie a while loop will do it
20:46 jennie or for
20:46 rue_house I suggest for
20:46 rue_house take a random stab and I'll help correct it
20:46 jennie ok
20:48 jennie http://codepad.org/XQMX2TEu
20:48 rue_house ok
20:49 rue_house your main is a code block, so everything in it needs to be between { and }
20:49 rue_house for is another code block, so same with that, there needs to be a { and } around the code to repeat
20:50 rue_house good for antoehr stab?
20:51 jennie ok
20:51 Tom_itx can i try?
20:51 rue_house Tom_itx, your suppose dto know c already :)
20:52 rue_house but yea
20:52 Tom_itx jennie is pretty close
20:52 jennie http://codepad.org/mKg9CxWc
20:53 rue_house jennie, the ; at the end of the for will stop the operation of the for
20:53 Tom_itx while (1){
20:53 rue_house if you remove the ; and put a {
20:53 rue_house then put a } where you want the code the for repeats to end
20:54 rue_house no tom, not while 1
20:54 rue_house the goal is to repeat it 360 times
20:54 rue_house jennie, ok?
20:54 jennie ok
20:57 jennie http://codepad.org/0f50oT0p
20:57 rue_house yes! :)
20:57 rue_house now, have it peint the value of i after hello
20:58 rue_house hello 0
20:58 rue_house hello 1
20:58 rue_house etc
20:59 jennie hm
21:00 rue_house again, I dont mind a guess and I'll help correct it
21:00 jennie http://codepad.org/K6W3huz9
21:01 rue_house the \n is the end of the line
21:01 Tom_itx unless you want i on a separate line
21:01 rue_house if you move it around, it'll put the number before the end f the line
21:01 rue_house /n stands for 'new line'
21:01 jennie ok
21:02 Tom_itx  /r/n crlf CHR(13) CHR(10)
21:03 rue_house jennie, you correcting?
21:04 jennie yes
21:04 jennie lol
21:04 jennie http://codepad.org/xXFIdmas
21:05 rue_house Hello %d \n" hello literally, thena aspace, then the number, then the new line ?
21:05 rue_house (using the right slash helps too
21:05 rue_house )
21:05 jennie http://codepad.org/VPGaYX3S
21:06 rue_house excellent
21:06 rue_house now!
21:06 rue_house do you know the formula for converting from degrees to radians?
21:06 rue_house radians = ~~~~~~~ degrees ~~~~~
21:07 rue_house I have to g shopping soon
21:07 jennie yes
21:07 jennie I know
21:07 jennie it is easy
21:08 jennie also when you will be back from shopping ? what else to do with driver circuit ?
21:08 rue_house make a new variable, called rads, befor eht printf, set it to i, converted to radians, print that after hello instead of i
21:08 rue_house we need to do some code stuff, to work out the operating table, I need to work on a new current limiter circuit
21:10 jennie we have to enter value too for converting degree to radians ?>
21:12 rue_house nope
21:12 rue_house tell me how to convert 45 degrees to radians
21:13 jennie ok
21:14 jennie 1 degree = 0.0174532925 radians , so 45*0.0174532925
21:14 rue_house ok
21:14 rue_house so, before printf, rads = i * 0.0174532925;
21:15 rue_house then print rads
21:15 rue_house make sure rads is a float or double!
21:15 jennie ok
21:17 rue_house biab
21:19 jennie o
22:01 Tom_L rue_house
22:01 Tom_L http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/BLDC/3ph_motor.jpg
22:01 Tom_L http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/BLDC/control1.jpg
22:01 Tom_L http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/BLDC/control2.jpg
22:01 Tom_L http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/200/ir2136-83751.pdf
22:11 any04541118 i hear thunders : http://classic.wunderground.com/radar/radblast.asp?ID=BMX&region=c4&lat=33.59627914&lon=-86.32241821
22:14 rue_house jennie, dont stop talking just cause I go
22:15 rue_house did you finish doing that code change?
22:15 Tom_itx rue_house, that's the washer motor/driver
22:15 rue_house yea
22:16 rue_house I have one of those
22:16 Tom_itx have you tried hacking it yet?
22:16 rue_house I played wiht the inputs, it has one for each mode
22:16 rue_house the chip is a full blown motor controller
22:17 Tom_L http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/BLDC/ir2136.pdf
22:17 rue_house so the micro dosn't do much
22:17 Tom_L yeah
22:17 Tom_L this has a serial interface of some kind
22:17 Tom_L hopefully fairly easy to figure out
22:17 Tom_L i need to figure out if it's 5v logic first though
22:17 Tom_L at the serial point
22:18 rue_house motor control on mine was more compex
22:18 rue_house that chip is just a specialized fet driver
22:18 Tom_L yeah
22:18 jennie ok.
22:19 Tom_itx looks like it's got opto isolation on something
22:19 Tom_itx on the board
22:20 Tom_itx that may be the motor feedback input
22:20 Tom_itx i have the washer wiring diagram
22:20 rue_house on the one I have they use a voltage divider for the 120V inputs
22:21 y04541118 has been successful so far in removing a car from around a wiring har
22:21 rue_house *blink*
22:22 any04541118 over half the car is gone, the harness is still intact
22:22 rue_house I'm sure, if you wanted to, you could wire it up with a way better design than they did
22:22 any04541118 at issue is: i have no clue where the engine control module is
22:22 rue_house but that sounds like fun
22:22 rue_house hmm its not under the right corner of hte hood?
22:23 Tom_itx rue_house, what is UVCC/BS+ UVCC/BS- ?
22:23 Tom_itx in the pdf P1
22:23 any04541118 the injector "ballast resistor" is there
22:24 any04541118 i also looked in the passenger side footwell body wall, it's not there too
22:24 any04541118 i looked all over the firewall under the hood, and in the wheel wells, not there also
22:25 any04541118 i think by the time i get the firewall cut off, all the rest of the body, and it's just the front suspension with the engine tween the front tires, i'll have found it
22:30 any04541118 i'll be happy to be somewhere i don't hear gunfire all day, or barking dogs all day, or the air tastes like burning garbage