#garfield Logs

Feb 25 2013

01:31 rue_house ok
01:31 katsmeow-afk question: i built a carrier/programmer board, why do i wanna breadboard the chip toprogram it?
01:32 rue_house so you can program a real chip that can flash a real led
01:32 rue_house all on its own
01:32 katsmeow-afk the 2313 wasn't real?!?
01:33 rue_house you were only running it the simulator..
01:33 rue_house ?
01:33 rue_house or did you have a real led hooked to it
01:33 katsmeow-afk no i wasn't
01:33 rue_house oh, it wasn't running free then, which is why you had to remove the delay
01:33 katsmeow-afk i ran the 2313 in a real 2313, i ran the .asm code for the 4414 on the simulator
01:34 rue_house oh
01:35 rue_house you understand the assembler yes?
01:35 katsmeow-afk i cannot answer that till i've used it a bunch more
01:36 rue_house ok , part of the reason I wanted to do that with you was to give you code you could play with and modify into other stuff
01:36 katsmeow-afk where do i get a list of assy commands for all the avr, and the c language it understands and how to apply it to avrs?
01:36 katsmeow-afk it's just too late, i am eating a snack before bed, my brain is off, mostly
01:37 katsmeow-afk the carrier/programmer i built has socket for 2313, 85, and 4414
01:37 katsmeow-afk i gave you a pic of it
01:37 rue_house I saw, I didn't realize it had an led on it
01:38 rue_house here is a pdf with detailed info on all the assmbler insttructions
01:38 rue_house ...
01:39 rue_house http://www.ruemohr.org/docs/atmelinstructions.pdf
01:42 katsmeow-afk got it
01:43 rue_house ask any questoins
01:44 katsmeow-afk the 85, 2313, and 4414 have multiply instructions?
01:44 rue_house the avrs have a bunch (32 I think) of registers, some of them are used for special stuff, I rename the rest in intel fassion with the macros, to A, B, etc
01:44 rue_house prolly
01:45 katsmeow-afk 1. This instruction is not available in all devices. Refer to the device specific instruction set summary.
01:45 katsmeow-afk 2. Not all variants of this instruction are available in all devices. Refer to the device specific instruction set summary.
01:45 rue_house oh
01:45 rue_house thought the asm was the same on them all..
01:45 rue_house the chip datasheet has an instruction summary towards the end.
01:46 tsmeow-afk asks T
01:47 katsmeow-afk arg, i didn't put the "obsolete" parts into her db, even tho i have them
01:47 rue_house :)
01:50 katsmeow-afk question: why does your asm have a stack command?
01:50 rue_house it makes a fn call
01:50 katsmeow-afk huh?
01:50 rue_house have to set up the stack
01:50 rue_house it calls the delay routine
01:50 katsmeow-afk but you didn't write a function call for stack
01:50 rue_house if an avr is running at full tilt, you need the delay routine to see the led flash
01:51 katsmeow-afk what's delay got to do with the stack?
01:51 rue_house it sets up the stack so the return address is put somewhere safe for the delay call
01:51 katsmeow-afk delay is at the bottom of the program, STACK is at the very top
01:51 rue_house stack -> ram return addresses and register saves
01:51 katsmeow-afk oh,, it errors, something about the stack being in ram or something
01:52 rue_house the stack is in ram
01:52 katsmeow-afk i know what a stack is, but i didn't see any stack push/pop instructions using it, ergo you didn't need it?
01:52 katsmeow-afk i KNOW the stack is in ram, but it still threw an error
01:54 rue_house call uses it automatically
01:55 katsmeow-afk ah
01:56 katsmeow-afk for pgmcntr, right
01:56 katsmeow-afk my brain is off
01:57 rue_house so it didn't like the instructions that set up the stack?
01:57 rue_house hmmm
01:59 tsmeow-afk signs at some instruc
02:00 tsmeow-afk realises now that unless one needs raw speed or something unusual,,,, if you need 3 ttl chips to do something, might as well use an avr ins
02:00 e_house sm
02:01 katsmeow-afk one clock on 20Mhz is 50ns, which is just about in time with 74HC (below 5v) or any 40xx chips
02:02 katsmeow-afk i can still do a register-to-register swap on a 74ABT core in only one ns tho :-P
02:03 katsmeow-afk i seriously wanted to make a ghz core in ttl chips with the pcb driller :-((
02:03 katsmeow-afk i got the chips for it
02:04 rue_bed dont give it up
02:05 katsmeow-afk i already did give it up, i cut the drill to pieces with the torch, remember?
02:06 rue_bed you have an incredible capacity for creation katsmeow-afk
02:07 katsmeow-afk and that causes great laughter at me, and stress in me
02:08 rue_bed it makes you one of the different, and I think better
02:13 katsmeow-afk the world is so xenophobic,, or xenohaters
02:14 katsmeow-afk i pretty much never feel appreciated , in any way
02:15 rue_bed I hope I'v been able to score you some of hte appreciated moments from the help you have given me
02:15 rue_bed dosn't help, being trapped in this computer and all
02:16 katsmeow-afk i like your help,, but then you do something like marshmellows
02:17 rue_bed I never mean any harm, I hope you know that, atleast in the back of your mind
02:18 katsmeow-afk i do not know what to think, so much makes no sense
02:19 katsmeow-afk many humans are like a zx80 programmed by a child, some humans are better that that, some i can have conversations with, but they are really rare
02:23 katsmeow-afk i can play a solitare game on the puter from start to finiish clicking the mouse almost as fast as i can, nonstop, and win, and i cannot figure out why humans let their dogs play in traffic and bite otehr dogs and humans
02:24 katsmeow-afk 30 yrs ago i could write 6502 asm in my sleep, and lay out complex video processor pcb with no errors while drunk, and could not figure out why humans dressed the way they do
02:25 katsmeow-afk i still do not know why sweatpants and eggnog are sold only in December
02:27 katsmeow-afk i never knew why a 1974 New Yorker had a hood that measured 5ft wide and 6ft long
02:28 katsmeow-afk i do not know why an ARM chip can do over a Ghz, but a new 6502 can't go over 20Mhz
02:30 katsmeow-afk i don't know why you quit talking to me again
02:43 rue_bed I'm falling asleep
02:43 rue_bed just passing by while rolling over
02:44 katsmeow-afk o
02:44 katsmeow-afk k, gnite
04:41 katsmeow-afk Agilent DSA-X93204A 33Ghz 80Gs/s Teardown : http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/agilent-dsa-x93204a-33ghz-80gss-teardown
04:45 katsmeow-afk damn scope is so fast it not only measures the time it takes electicity to flow down a wire, but ACROSS the wire too
04:46 katsmeow-afk 12.5ps per sample
04:47 katsmeow-afk that's 80 samples in the time electricity, moving at the speed of light, moves ~12 inches
04:49 katsmeow-afk in the time it takes light to move across the width of the adc in that scope, it's taking another sample of the input
09:19 rue_house hmm
13:07 katsmeow-afk naturally, you've figured out by now, they used 8 10Ghz convertors, not one 80Ghz convertor
13:08 katsmeow-afk what!? they used cheap 10Ghz convertors!?!
13:09 katsmeow-afk yep, and not only that, for each convert, they haveto send 8 bits of data off the chip, so the combined data rate is 640 Gbits/sec
15:42 katsmeow-afk if each 10Ghz convertor sent the 8bits off in parallel, then each parallel buss would be running at 10Ghz, and the buss would automagically fit puter memory buss size
15:42 katsmeow-afk at least, all my Dell mobo are 64bit wide modules
16:00 katsmeow-afk "As fpgas continue to get faster - they are expected to exceed 10GHz serdes - the market will start to look at faster transmission approaches, such as fibre optics."
16:00 Tom_itx rain?
16:01 katsmeow-afk last nite and tonite
16:01 katsmeow-afk it's too soggy outside to risk playing with the electric chainsaw outside
16:04 katsmeow-afk "In essence, it is now possible to take supercomputer levels of processing performance � that, only recently, required rooms full of equipment � and migrate that to rugged open standard 3U and 6U OpenVPX boards integrated into a 19in deployable rack. "
16:04 katsmeow-afk http://fplreflib.findlay.co.uk/articles/36710%5Ccurtis-1.jpg Tiggr!!
16:04 katsmeow-afk wait, no, that's Skynet
19:12 katsmeow-afk it's official, propane torch set as low as it will go unsolders the dual-7-segs, the IR reciever, the pushbuttons, and the 100u caps so much faster than the soldering iron, it's stupid
19:12 katsmeow-afk i didn't go for the smd parts, or the 2 square leds surrounded by smt
19:13 katsmeow-afk got the 24 pin 90deg header off easy too
19:58 rue_house I think a flame lowers the resistance of smt resistors, parallel carbon or soemthing
19:59 katsmeow-afk prolly
21:39 katsmeow-afk wouldn't ya know, i finally find something giving me some energy, it's 9:30pm, and i am up in the ceiling upstairs in the cold dark, pulling wire and installing light fixtures
22:55 tsmeow-afk ran into a small brick wall, face f
22:56 katsmeow-afk need some 6x6 inch of 1/2 plywood, to make attachments on the steel ceiling beams for the plastic junction boxes to attach to
23:03 katsmeow-afk http://www.geda-project.org/ ?
23:07 katsmeow-afk http://dl.dropbox.com/static/images/psychobox.png <cough>
23:07 rue_house isn't the brick wall the limit of the inside of your housr?
23:08 rue_house AAAAA hypercube!
23:08 rue_house kat, would you like to do an avr program with input?
23:08 rue_house I have about an hour
23:18 katsmeow-afk One disadvantage is that the plasma arc typically produces ozone, a poison gas, in small quantities as a by-product. Because of this, German-made Magnat "magnasphere" speakers were banned from import to the United States in the 1980s.
23:18 rue_house uh ?
23:18 katsmeow-afk umm, i have the tiny2313 still in the carrier/programmer board i made
23:19 rue_house plasma arc speakers?
23:19 katsmeow-afk yeas
23:19 rue_house katsmeow-afk, do you have any switches/leds connected to it?
23:19 katsmeow-afk In the past, the dominant supplier was DuKane near St Louis in the US, who made the Ionovac; also sold in a UK variant as the Ionophane. Electro-Voice made a model for a short time under license from DuKane.
23:19 katsmeow-afk In the 1980s, the Plasmatronics speaker also used a plasma tweeter, though the manufacturer did not stay in business very long and very few of these complex units were sold.
23:20 katsmeow-afk whacha know about http://www.geda-project.org/ ?
23:20 rue_house seen it before, I dont take well to fpgas yet
23:20 katsmeow-afk yeas, led attached, and jumper on it to select any pin to lite the led
23:20 katsmeow-afk it's only fpgas?
23:20 rue_house the avr has an internal pullup you can turn on, if you have a groud wire, we can test inputs
23:21 rue_house I think so
23:21 katsmeow-afk http://pcb.geda-project.org/
23:21 rue_house its stored in the 'not relivent for me yet' part of my memory
23:22 rue_house 2 bits by 10 channels is 20 bits
23:22 rue_house 74ls166 is 8 bit
23:22 katsmeow-afk someone asked me about me using it for designing something i guess he wants, but i can't make it anyhow, no driller
23:22 rue_house 8 16 24, requires 3 bytes
23:22 katsmeow-afk that's why you clock it into the 4414
23:23 rue_house I have a project I'm using an avr with insuccifient io
23:23 katsmeow-afk you mean 2 channels x 10 bits?
23:24 rue_house so I'm using 74ls166 for inputs and 74ls165(?) for outputs
23:24 rue_house its for an alarm loop tester, 2 bits in, which, in codes give you Open, EOL (ok), or Short
23:24 katsmeow-afk o
23:24 rue_house then I translate and send to status leds
23:25 rue_house verry simple
23:26 rue_house I kinda lost track of your project :/
23:26 rue_house I was gathering all the peices
23:26 rue_house I think I have almost all the code
23:26 rue_house in peices
23:26 rue_house tested pieces
23:27 rue_house oh, I was looking at i2c protocols, but then realized that they wont help
23:28 rue_house did you see the last video of things?
23:28 katsmeow-afk no
23:29 rue_house the pot on adc controlling the 7 segments on shift registers?
23:30 rue_house oh well it looks like I forgot to post it
23:30 rue_house http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_lQRRS0oxk&list=UUPqhe-f22nx8XkLW-CysxQw&index=2
23:30 rue_house you saw that right?
23:31 katsmeow-afk if you forgot to post it, i prolly never saw it
23:31 rue_house yea....
23:32 rue_house nope its not there...
23:32 katsmeow-afk i saw that one, you posted that 2 weeks ago
23:32 rue_house 2 mins...
23:33 rue_house :/ uh, damn...
23:33 rue_house I'm sure I took a video...
23:35 rue_house ok, apparently I have to take a video of that one again ;)
23:35 rue_house will you remind me tommrow when I get in?
23:36 katsmeow-afk k
23:36 rue_house 74ls166 in and 17ls164 out on the fire alarm thing
23:36 rue_house then I can use a tiny26 of soemthing
23:37 rue_house I wonder if 2 air muscles would retract farther if they were slightly twisted around each other
23:38 rue_house ooo I can make ball joints now
23:38 rue_house (I could before didn't really realize it)
23:38 rue_house I need to solve the force sensor thing again
23:38 rue_house really cheap force sensors
23:38 katsmeow-afk making the ball on the lathe is fairly easy, making the socket is less easy, but possible
23:39 rue_house esp if you can rely on air muscles to hold them in the sockets
23:39 katsmeow-afk cheap force sensor: "crystal phono cartridge"
23:39 rue_house but thats integrated
23:39 rue_house ?
23:39 katsmeow-afk or, cut open a radio crystal and glue a toothpick to it
23:40 rue_house er, I suppose its differentiated and you would have to integrate to get absolute force
23:40 katsmeow-afk was Rif playing with the 3D accel thingie? ow is that going? how much do they cost all hooked to an avr?
23:40 rue_house I'm looking at an led
23:41 rue_house is there a way to make a material go opaque/transparent when stretched?
23:41 rue_house the thing rifraf is playing with goes for about $3 on ebay
23:41 rue_house 9 axis accel/gyro
23:41 rue_house (no I dont know how they get 9)
23:42 katsmeow-afk http://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/the_crystal_phonograph_cartridge.html
23:43 rue_house you know what I mean tho, I need abolute force
23:45 katsmeow-afk there's rubber with carbon in it, it changes resistance when touched
23:45 katsmeow-afk you can put metal coated mylar backto back, then cover in plastic/silicone, it will change capacitance when touched
23:47 katsmeow-afk you can put a bi-color led under anything reflective, lite one led and measure the lite with the otehr led, when you touch the rubber stuff you laid over the led, it will wrap around the led and reflect more lite to the led you are measuring
23:48 katsmeow-afk those scales that sell on ebay use a conductive paint that changes resistance when stretched, but it stretches only .001's for max resistance change
23:50 rue_house hmmm
23:51 rue_house tire rubber?
23:51 rue_house volcanized?
23:51 rue_house I'm never put an ohm meter up to a tire
23:51 katsmeow-afk i dunno it's composition exactly
23:52 rue_house dosn't tire rubber have a high carbon content?
23:52 katsmeow-afk it's like asking about accelerometers on avr's, i don't need pressure sensitive rubber till i can use an accel on an avr, and so far, i dunno anyone to talk to about that
23:52 katsmeow-afk yeas, any black rubber has carbon
23:53 rue_house but I think tires are more so
23:53 rue_house I wonder if I can make a tire-slicer
23:53 katsmeow-afk you can prolly grind down various conductive things and stir into silicone sealant too
23:54 rue_house I tried it with pcb, the silicone corroded and became impregnated with the copper
23:54 katsmeow-afk zip disks cut tires marvelously, and don't care if it's kevlar or steel belted
23:54 katsmeow-afk huh?
23:54 rue_house pcb silicone-layer pcb
23:55 rue_house the silicone corroded the copper
23:55 katsmeow-afk yu ground up a pcb, stirred it into some silicone,a nd it bcame impregnated with copper?
23:55 rue_house turned all green
23:55 rue_house no
23:55 katsmeow-afk use carbon
23:55 rue_house pcb-silicone sandwich
23:55 katsmeow-afk graphite
23:55 rue_house yea, pencils
23:55 katsmeow-afk what good is a pcb-silicone sandwich?
23:55 rue_house variable capacitor
23:56 Lola8088 batteries
23:56 rue_house batteries?
23:56 katsmeow-afk zinc carbons
23:56 rue_house yes
23:56 Lola8088 graphine batteries
23:56 katsmeow-afk might be contaminated, might not
23:56 rue_house graphite is paramagnetic too :)
23:57 katsmeow-afk how about latex caulk, should be less acid
23:57 rue_house interesting point
23:57 katsmeow-afk latex paint even
23:58 Lola8088 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XJDUY4OYX0
23:58 rue_house oh, bedtime
23:59 rue_house ooo it turns into a sheet!?