#garfield Logs

Feb 12 2013

00:01 katsmeow i cannot eat all this pie myself
00:01 e_house look for a
00:22 rue_house damn the safety tripped on the boiler and now there is an airlock in it
00:23 Lolina8088 uh oh
00:24 katsmeow uh oh
00:26 rue_house ok go the airlock out
00:27 rue_house the fire didn't care about the ~2gal of water the safety dumped on it
00:27 katsmeow "well, you see, the first nite the astronauts fell asleep, the safety systems thought they had died, so it shut off all the oxyget and life support, and turned the $25 billion Mars trip back to Earth"
00:28 rue_house ah
00:28 katsmeow "then on landing, it deployed the parachutes at one M(eter) above the ground instead of one M(ile) altitude"
00:29 rue_house wow that took a gouge out of the temps
00:29 rue_house there is a huge plume of steam comming out of it right now
00:29 katsmeow didn't take out any pumpseals to run dry?
00:30 rue_house nono
00:30 rue_house the house pump takes off the top of the tank for the heat, so when the safety trips the water level goes down and the pump sucks air and loses its prime
00:31 katsmeow and runs dry seals
00:31 rue_house bad design point that when its overheating, it loses the ability to shed heat
00:31 rue_house they can take it for a bit, some water sloshing around in there
00:32 katsmeow silly question about that: your system is open to air, it's not sealed, so when it dumps water from overheat, why not allow fresh water to flow in at some point where it won't hurt anything?
00:33 rue_house its not hooked up to cresh water
00:33 katsmeow make it so
00:33 rue_house the boiler has a water tank safety that is plumbed into the firebox
00:34 rue_house I'm not sure how I'd maintain level
00:34 rue_house and it would have to be hooked to a garden hose
00:34 katsmeow heating one room in Feb in winter: 625 kwh , heating the whole downstairs in Feb in winter : 848 kwh
00:34 rue_house this is a trailer, that why I have the boiler, cheap heat, cause it dosn't hang around long
00:35 rue_house this house is NOT worth fixing
00:35 katsmeow or a large makeup tank hung fromt he ceiling where it won't freeze
00:35 rue_house its all outside...
00:35 katsmeow outside but INSIDE the fs
00:35 rue_house the fireshed isn't designed to hold heat either
00:36 rue_house I'd still need a toilet valve or something
00:36 rue_house ?
00:36 katsmeow but with the damned thing glowing red hot, it won't let the tank on the ceiling freeze, will it?
00:37 rue_house I cant put the boiler in the fireshed
00:37 rue_house when you open the hatch, flames shoot out 3 feet
00:37 katsmeow what's in the fireshed?
00:37 rue_house all the elctronics and pumps
00:37 rue_house it was supposed to have the boiler in it, but its not working out
00:38 katsmeow oh, i didn't know that
00:38 rue_house its a side effect of havign to make it bigger
00:38 katsmeow so the power is 12 cents / kwh, and is still pricey
00:39 rue_house here its 9
00:39 rue_house but all the heat for the house just goes right thru the walls
00:39 rue_house no point in using expensive heat
00:39 rue_house so I made the boiler
00:39 rue_house cheap heat till I can build a proper house
00:40 katsmeow the solar panels willmake 800watt-hours on a good summer day, if they track the sun, or $1.92 worth of power with 20% cloudy over a summer month
00:40 rue_house none of it needed for heating or cooling if the palce is designed right
00:41 katsmeow that was my thoughts too
00:41 rue_house I shouldn't need much mroe than the fridge, 11 computers, and 24/7 lighting
00:41 katsmeow the gotcha is one puter pulls 130 watts
00:42 rue_house I'm not sold on that, my ups runs a long time witout that many Ah of battery
00:42 rue_house gnight kat
00:43 katsmeow i'll put a measuring thing on it next time i haveto shut one down and bring it back up
00:43 rue_house ok
00:43 katsmeow gnite rue
03:39 Tom_itx gnite johnboy
13:30 katsmeow Natasha Harris, who died three years ago after a cardiac arrest, drank up to 10 litres of the fizzy drink each day.
13:30 katsmeow This is twice the recommended safe limit of caffeine and more than 11 times the recommended sugar intake.
13:30 katsmeow Coca-Cola had argued that it could not be proved its product had contributed to Ms Harris' death.
13:31 katsmeow The fact that one or more of her children were born without enamel on their teeth should have been treated by her, and by her family, as a warning�
13:31 katsmeow Coroner David Crerar
19:35 Tom_itx rue_house, what do you think?
19:36 Tom_itx unban not unban
19:49 rue_house dan? I'm thinking better banned right now
19:56 Tom_itx what about kicked?
19:56 Tom_itx if he's kicked he can't get back in
19:56 Tom_itx it was by accident he got in
20:06 katsmeow .
20:07 rue_house danf got into robotics
20:07 rue_house didn't take long to get tired of him
20:07 katsmeow of course
20:07 rue_house actually I think less than 5 minutes
20:08 rue_house katsmeow, I'm just looking for your ban or whatever
20:08 katsmeow on the other paw, i shouldn't go there either <shrug>
20:08 katsmeow kline
20:08 katsmeow set by an ircop
20:08 rue_house are you banned or klined?
20:09 rue_house I dont understand
20:09 tsmeow scrolls up to get the text from yesyerday.
20:09 rue_house oh
20:09 katsmeow [19:13] <katsmeow> [00:16] *** Joins #robotics: impulse
20:09 katsmeow [19:13] <katsmeow> [00:18] You are banned from this server- Spam is off topic on freenode. mail kline@freenode.net if in error (2012/11/17 06.18)
20:09 katsmeow [19:13] <katsmeow> [00:18] . 00:18:48am 11/17/12 Saturday NotWorthCr4p K-Lined .
20:09 katsmeow [19:13] <katsmeow> [00:18] . NotWorthCr4p!~someone@75-120-216-54.dyn.centurytel.net .
20:09 rue_house <katsmeow> \\
20:09 rue_house <katsmeow> This is wonderful, the app has processed 6 gigabytes of data so far, and still using only ~5 megabytes of memory. This is how it always should have been! (I mean other than the source code at 6300 bytes using 5 megabytes of memory.)
20:09 rue_house <katsmeow> \\\\
20:10 katsmeow [19:13] <katsmeow> [00:18] *** NotWorthCr4p (~someone@unaffiliated/katsmeow) Quit (K-Lined)
20:10 katsmeow [19:13] <katsmeow> [00:18] Closing Link: unaffiliated/katsmeow (K-Lined)
20:10 katsmeow [19:13] <katsmeow> [00:18] *** Disconnected
20:10 katsmeow [19:14] <katsmeow> i never emailed them or persoanlly groveled
20:10 rue_house katsmeow waves her arms like she's falling off the ceiling fan, and a coconut creme pie appears on the table
20:10 katsmeow did you not see anything i pasted?
20:11 tsmeow checks the soldering inon on the table be
20:11 rue_house yes
20:11 rue_house I'm trying to work out
20:20 katsmeow the grey color on the face of the 7-seg is slightly diff tween the HP number and the LTD number
20:23 katsmeow the first Mars base is set up : http://images.spaceref.com/news/2011/HDU.desertrats.l.jpg
20:23 rue_house ooo
20:52 katsmeow ...
20:53 rue_house tom/kat
20:53 rue_house tomkat!
20:53 rue_house ...anyhow
20:54 rue_house I would like to make you aware of...
20:54 rue_house http://www.ebay.ca/itm/300847802450
20:54 rue_house THIS which is NOT as described, its as SHOWN!!!!
20:55 rue_house this is sweeeet
20:55 rue_house Tom_itx, katsmeow
20:55 Tom_itx it looks analog
20:56 rue_house yup!
20:56 rue_house infinite resolution
20:56 Tom_itx it smells analog
20:56 rue_house or just 10 bit :)
20:56 rue_house 10k
20:56 Tom_itx you got a bunch of 5k
20:56 Tom_itx i know that cause they passed thru here once upon a time
20:56 rue_house the pots on it are 10k
21:01 katsmeow it's in China, but they do not ship to China
21:02 Tom_itx they don't wanna keep it
21:02 katsmeow i wonder what's wrong with it then
21:02 rue_shop2 nothing far as I can tel
21:07 katsmeow 6x GENUINE Servo Micro 9g SG90 SG-90 RC Trex 450 Helico...This seller accepts PayPal
21:07 katsmeow Buy it now C $113.96
21:07 katsmeow something wrong there
21:08 rue_shop2 how do you manage to find all that stuff?
21:08 katsmeow hmm?
21:08 Tom_itx kat has a helper
21:08 rue_shop2 all the stuff with crazy prices, where people lost decimal places and stuff
21:09 katsmeow it jumps out at me
21:09 rue_shop2 :)
21:10 rue_shop2 should I use resistors to put ttl inputs high?
21:10 Tom_itx what else would you use?
21:10 rue_shop2 its bad for soemting, and I dont remember what anymore
21:10 rue_shop2 pullup resistor
21:10 katsmeow it's bad for current draw if you resistor pull up on ttl, and then keep it pulled low all the time
21:11 rue_shop2 hehehe
21:11 rue_shop2 that took me a second
21:11 katsmeow do the math for a few ma with only 1v drop, and then when you have it pulled down with 4.5v drop across it
21:11 rue_shop2 hopefull if I lock down a pullup resistor there is 5V across it
21:12 rue_shop2 ~5ma
21:12 rue_shop2 :)
21:12 katsmeow umm, if you pull down with a relay or switch, else there will be v drop in the pulldown device too
21:12 rue_shop2 oh you meant an outout, I meant an input, that changes everything
21:12 katsmeow eitehr way
21:13 rue_shop2 I hate it when 1k resistors turn out to be 200 ohm resistors
21:13 katsmeow 5ma current thru a 1k resistor when pulled to gnd, is only 1ma to pull up at 4v active high
21:14 rue_shop2 I meant an input
21:14 katsmeow an input with nothing driving it?
21:14 rue_shop2 wire -> +5V
21:14 rue_shop2 or resistor
21:14 rue_shop2 yea
21:14 rue_shop2 just tied high
21:14 katsmeow to save current: if the input is pnp, pull it up, if it's npn, pull it down
21:15 katsmeow if it's a cmos input, doesn't much matter
21:15 rue_shop2 its the clear input on a shift register, I need it tied high
21:15 katsmeow then you have no choice in the matter
21:15 rue_shop2 wire or resistor what my posed conundram
21:16 katsmeow Fttl inputs are pnp, they suck several ma to pull low, they are very low impedance, but they need only microamps to pull high
21:16 katsmeow oh, best use a resistor
21:17 katsmeow most people use a wire
21:17 rue_shop2 iirc using wire is bad for something
21:17 katsmeow just like most opamps, some ttl inputs hate being pulled all the way to vcc
21:18 rue_shop2 GetExh
21:18 rue_shop2 ExhaustTemp 322.9
21:18 rue_shop2 hmm
21:18 katsmeow with a resistor, they'' less-limit to 3.5v or 4v or something, and if you force them to 5v they'll suck more current than necessary
21:18 katsmeow err.
21:18 rue_shop2 k
21:19 katsmeow with a resistor, they'll SELF-limit to 3.5v or 4v or something, and if you force them to 5v they'll suck more current than necessary
21:19 rue_shop2 GetFire
21:19 rue_shop2 FireGained
21:19 rue_shop2 it knows there is fire...
21:19 tsmeow has stuff all over her
21:19 e_shop2 wonders if kat needs a brain
21:20 katsmeow *i* don't, but i imagine everyone else wants me to have one to lower me to "normal"
21:20 rue_shop2 I wrote code and I cant find it
21:20 rue_shop2 normal is no good
21:20 rue_shop2 the boiler controller I said I lost?
21:20 katsmeow 2 moe 7-seg to remove and ic an take another pic, and that's what making things is about, isn't it?
21:20 rue_shop2 turns out it had a bad connection on the fuse
21:21 katsmeow yeas, fuses can be unreliable
21:21 rue_shop2 I'm getting closer on the code
21:21 rue_shop2 I should send you stuff
21:27 rue_shop2 huh, dosn't work
21:27 rue_shop2 howmi gonna debug this...
21:29 m_itx hands rue_shop2 a special 'debug'
21:33 rue_shop2 hahahaAhahahahahaHAHAHA
21:33 rue_shop2 hahahahahaha
21:33 e_shop2 beats his head on the desk and gasps for air while laug
21:35 rue_shop2 #define LS166GetBit() IsHigh(LS166Data, PORTA)
21:35 rue_shop2 #define IsHigh(BIT, PORT) (PORT & (1<<BIT)) != 0
21:36 e_shop2 changes PORTA to
21:37 rue_shop2 sweet
21:37 rue_shop2 it works
21:37 rue_shop2 -- it got me AGAIN--
21:43 rue_shop2 odd, the 2nd '166 isn't carrying in the serial from the fir... oh
21:44 rue_shop2 hmm
21:48 katsmeow 7-seg readouts : http://designerthinking.com/DC_Lighting.html
21:48 katsmeow as you can see in the very bottom pic, each charger/tester has 2" tall by 3" wide space
21:49 rue_shop2 heh, for a sec, I thought it was uspposed to be 3 digits, I was gonna panic
21:49 rue_shop2 cant get the other half of the 16 bits to shift in
21:50 katsmeow you are using '166's, i have none,, why aren't you using a pin on a chip like the 4414, it's got one holw buss i figure iwon't nessarily need
21:51 rue_shop2 oh I'm being thick
21:51 katsmeow oh
21:51 rue_shop2 becasue I'm gonna make the tiny85 work like the 166
21:51 rue_shop2 but I need a tested foundation
21:52 katsmeow well, the166 approach i am sure will be plenty fast, but it will still need a sync clock
21:52 rue_shop2 yes, the 166 is clock in, and data out
21:52 rue_shop2 with a 'latch' signal
21:52 katsmeow but the clock also goes to the 85, for it to output the next bit
21:53 rue_shop2 yes
21:53 rue_shop2 -> clock
21:53 rue_shop2 ->latch inputs
21:53 rue_shop2 <- data
21:53 rue_shop2 of course, the latch signal will be used to trigger adc
21:53 katsmeow i hope i can get a grey paint to match those leds
21:54 rue_shop2 take it to the store and tell them to match it
21:54 rue_shop2 damn, it still wont load the other 8 bits
21:54 katsmeow i need a way to definitely tell which pushbuttons go to which displays
21:54 rue_shop2 oh it is
21:55 rue_shop2 I dont have the ones place, so I cant test with bits 0-4
21:55 katsmeow http://designerthinking.com/images/DC_Lighting/DSCF3164mc.jpg <<== you can see the displays are offset in their little boxes to allow for the buttons
21:55 e_shop2
21:56 rue_shop2 FireGained
21:56 rue_shop2 FireLost
21:56 rue_shop2 FireGained
21:56 rue_shop2 FireLost
21:56 rue_shop2 FireGained
21:56 rue_shop2 FireLost
21:56 rue_shop2 FireGained
21:56 rue_shop2 FireLost
21:56 rue_shop2 FireGained
21:56 rue_shop2 FireLost
21:56 rue_shop2 I think there is noise on a sensor line
21:56 rue_shop2 its spewing messages
21:56 katsmeow do you hear a <boom><boom><boom> ?
21:56 rue_shop2 no
21:57 rue_shop2 ok it works
21:57 rue_shop2 now I have the base code for my fire alarm system and test code for the adc chip
21:59 e_shop2 celebrates by puttin ghis feet up for a
22:01 katsmeow make sure you can reacht hem, to turn down the antigrav gradually
22:02 rue_shop2 I think next I'll port it so I can read eeproms, and then I can make my mini ausio clip player
22:03 katsmeow ausio? i dunno that one
22:03 rue_shop2 I want to make a little device to play short audio clips
22:03 rue_shop2 I got a remote for my truck, it outputs two dry contacts
22:04 rue_shop2 I'd like my truck to whistle and say "HEY OVER HERE!" when I push the remote key
22:04 rue_shop2 maybe flash the lights too
22:04 rue_shop2 I deny all reports of getting it lost in the shopping mall parking lot
22:05 katsmeow but won't it attract lots of humans when it does that?
22:08 katsmeow if it's electric, you ave tons of battery power, i suggest mounting some motor and camshaft and moveable plate to make deep bass sounds like the robots on Terminator: Salvation
22:12 rue_shop2 :)
22:12 katsmeow the 50ft mecha at the gas station, for instance
22:13 rue_shop2 might cause excess disturbance to the peice
22:13 rue_shop2 :)
22:13 katsmeow and the truck pleading for attention in plain english wouldn't be disturbing the peace??
22:14 rue_shop2 :)
22:14 rue_shop2 I just need it to call me so I can find it
22:14 rue_shop2 like those people do with those alarms
22:14 katsmeow small rocket flares
22:14 rue_shop2 :)
22:15 rue_shop2 thats part of the problem, its a low truck
22:15 rue_shop2 S10
22:15 katsmeow 10ft antenna whips up with a flashng swireling laser show
22:15 rue_shop2 yea, one of the suggestions was that it convert into disco-truck
22:15 katsmeow well, don't make it look pricey, someone will steal it
22:15 rue_shop2 heh
22:16 rue_shop2 not here
22:17 rue_shop2 this is cool, the more I code the more code I have to do stuff with
22:17 katsmeow yeas
22:17 rue_shop2 your project has spawned roots of 6 projects to far
22:17 rue_shop2 so
22:18 katsmeow you're welcome :-)
22:18 rue_shop2 :)
22:18 rue_shop2 the displays are gonna be muxed in parallel now right?
22:22 katsmeow umm,, yeas, module select, and some '*7* latches on each module
22:22 katsmeow 574, 573, 373, 374 , that sorta thing, depends on the driver polarity
22:23 katsmeow clk on the 374 is active high, but latch-enable on the 374 is active low, that sorta thing
22:26 rue_shop2 oo use a 4017 to ripple down the latches
22:28 katsmeow i am needing a way the 8Mhz 4414 isn't slowed to a crawl when updating 80 7-seg displays
22:29 katsmeow granted the batteries aren't going to be charging at many volts per sec, but still....
22:30 katsmeow 4 segments per measurement, 2 measurements per charger displayed at any time, and 10 chargers,, that's a lot
22:30 katsmeow two amp adc, a temperature adc, and a volt adc
22:31 katsmeow only the charge amp and bat volt will be normally displayed
22:32 katsmeow if the average 7-seg has 4 segs lit at 5ma, then 80 displays = 1.6 amps
22:32 katsmeow ouch
22:34 katsmeow instead of one '574 per 7-seg, i wonder if i shouldn't use one 4414 per module (qty 8 7-segs per module)
22:34 rue_house your not strobing them tho, so its got plenty of time to update
22:35 katsmeow yeas, but with one 4414 and 80 574's, that one 4414 may be a huge bottleneck
22:36 katsmeow serially clock in the data from 20 '85's, format it to drive 80 7-seg displays, and then shuffle it out?
22:36 katsmeow i *have* the 4414's, i might aw well use them
22:36 katsmeow brb
22:38 rue_house 50 resistors for $1
22:39 rue_house 500 resistors for $5
22:39 rue_house 1000 resistors for $7.79
22:39 rue_house and a $1 limit on daily items
22:43 katsmeow bak
22:46 katsmeow puter pulls 100w during boot
22:46 katsmeow 110 to 120 getting the windows desktop up
22:47 katsmeow now ~70 when doing nothing
22:47 tsmeow writes a quicky eat-cpu pro
22:53 katsmeow at 100% cpu the box is eating 120w
22:54 katsmeow it's NOT using the harddrives, it's just doing a loop in ram
22:55 katsmeow figuring each hd eats ~10 - ~15 watts when in use, 130w per desktop box is a good approximation
22:56 katsmeow that's not counting the monitor, the puter may not have a monitor attached when in use, or it may be turned off
22:57 katsmeow kill that app dropped power use down to 72 watts
22:57 katsmeow of course, if the puter is on, i'll prolly have it working and therefore pulling power
22:59 katsmeow so 10 puters pull 1300 watts, which is how i can heat the downstairs in winter, if someone will pay me to run that much puter 24-7,, and then there's airconditioning costs in summer
23:01 katsmeow ewww <body class="single single-post postid-62764 single-format-standard custom content-shadow responsive pagelines-template-theme single full_width ">
23:04 rue_house huh
23:11 katsmeow to make 1300w with 12vdc batetries , i'd need 108 amps , plus whatever for lan switch, monitors, desk lites, etc
23:12 katsmeow to make 1300w with the batteries in series, i need only 10.8 amps rms
23:13 rue_house not if you put 10 in series
23:13 katsmeow which strangely , is how i arrived at the 10amp test (the 150w 10amp resistors i mentioned) , which strangely again, are made of 240/120vac central heater elements
23:14 katsmeow the batteries will plug into the system, and in a way anotehr battery can parallel any one already plugged in, so the original one can be removed and unplugged, while the system is operating
23:16 katsmeow i think, not sure, the math says i could unplug 2 of the 10 batteries, and still make a 110vac sine wave under load , with the remaining 8 batteries at 12v each
23:17 katsmeow but if the voltages drop below 12v, i'd need all the bateries in the system
23:18 katsmeow at 10v per battery, i can still lite all the cfl house lites fully, and still make 110vac sine wave
23:19 rue_house well you want some headroom for the inverter
23:19 tsmeow
23:19 rue_house constant powr converter will give you ...
23:20 rue_house 7.7A @ 1200W out?
23:20 rue_house on 120vdc in
23:20 rue_house and thats half dead
23:20 katsmeow i was figuring constant voltage out
23:21 katsmeow not constant power out
23:21 rue_house no I mean the inverter
23:21 rue_house a variable buck converter
23:21 katsmeow the smps in theputers will prolly pull a tab bit more power as the voltage drops from 120v to 110v , so i figure to maintain it at 115vac clean sine wave
23:22 katsmeow there's no such convertor in this scheme :-)
23:22 rue_house oh
23:23 katsmeow i will build output directly , up to the 160v max, the 115vac sine wave peak
23:24 katsmeow the cfl will run off the dc , regulated down with as plain a switcher as i can make
23:25 katsmeow i don't particularly want the lighting system to go over 10amps, these are small batteries, and 10amps = 1200w, which at 13w per cfl is a *lot* of lites
23:26 katsmeow the 115vac from this will goto the puters only, and for as little as possible, and trigger a bigger ups or a genny to kick in
23:27 katsmeow even running the baby 2500w genny, the puters take the top off the sinewave, and the microwave won't cook
23:28 katsmeow so putting the puters on the ups for a few minute when the genny is running is still a good thing to do
23:29 katsmeow also, the 2500w baby genny has a hard time starting the baby 120v ac units, but has no problem running them
23:30 katsmeow the big ac unit pulls only 13amps at 240v, but it takes 60amps to crank it
23:30 katsmeow all the ac units have capacitor start motors
23:32 katsmeow i spose, i could build a ups to the same 5 minute rating of the batteries, which is prolly 50amps (6kw), but the goal was merely 1) keep lites on, and 2) save the puters, not much else
23:36 katsmeow 10amps of lites is all the outside lites, a few work lites, and some lites sprinkled thru the house,,, or potentially all the livingroom/den lites, and a few downstairs too
23:36 katsmeow so if Tiggr can shut down lites to only what's safe, or only what power is available for, this should work out fine
23:37 katsmeow did i mention the power going off yesterday morning was a guy trying to drive his pu truck thru a pole? the powerco replaced the pole yesterday afternoon
23:38 rue_house its logical that your reading light is shut off to gain the power needed for harddrive access, which is obviosly more important
23:38 rue_house :)
23:38 rue_house yes you did
23:39 katsmeow well, right now there's a lit on in the utility room, and i can't see that fromhere, that could be shut off
23:40 katsmeow there hallway lites are on, they could go off
23:40 rue_house http://hackaday.com/2013/02/12/limor-from-adafruit-to-hang-out-with-president-obama/
23:40 rue_house I just think its funny that tigger may decicde to sacrifice your ability to read so it can
23:42 rue_house http://hackaday.com/2013/02/12/giant-resistor-shaped-ohmmeter/
23:42 rue_house har har har
23:42 katsmeow i said "safe to shut off"
23:42 katsmeow i don't need a 13w cfl every 4ft across the room in a power outage