#garfield Logs
Feb 04 2013
#garfield Calendar
00:00 rue_house oh
00:00 rue_house tom had you click something from the tools menu, right?
00:01 useless2 ok, seems one must load the stk500 to get a con bug
00:01 rue_house I dont think the con chip icon is important, do you have it set for the dragon?
00:02 useless2 yeas,,, which hex file?
00:02 rue_house uh, not the eeprom one...
00:02 rue_house http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/kat/attiny2313/blink_led.hex
00:02 rue_house that one
00:02 rue_house if you save that to somewhere
00:03 useless2 Getting ISP frequency parameters.. FAILED!OK
00:03 useless2 Reading FLASH input file.. OK
00:03 useless2 Setting device parameters.. FAILED!
00:03 rue_house hmm
00:03 rue_house wanna check make sure the avr is getting its 5V?
00:03 useless2 cannot erase the device : Setting device parameters.. FAILED!
00:04 useless2 4.97v
00:04 rue_house good enough for me
00:04 rue_house (they are good down to like 2v)
00:05 rue_house oh I wonder if you have to set the chip type in that program
00:05 useless2 cannot read signature
00:06 rue_house ok that means the chip isn't talking
00:06 useless2 it is set to attiny2313
00:06 rue_house ok
00:07 rue_house is it worth re-checking the 6 pin -> avr socket connections?
00:07 useless2 i doublechecked while doing it
00:08 rue_house on my programmer I made a loopback type device for troubleshooting, not sure what to do here
00:08 rue_house ok
00:08 rue_house thinking...
00:08 rue_house whats the voltage on the reset pin, pin.... 1
00:08 useless2 4.7
00:09 rue_house sounds high enough...
00:10 rue_house I'm reading...
00:11 rue_house is there an option to set the isp freq?
00:12 rue_house ""
00:12 rue_house A famous one Smile After changing the default ISP-speed of the Dragon, you need to click on the "Write"-button.
00:12 rue_house A brandnew AVR defaults at 1 MHz internal clock, so reduce Dragon's ISP-clock to 250 kHz or less.
00:12 rue_house ""
00:12 rue_house does that seem relivent?
00:14 rue_house kat, is there antistatic foam under the dragon?
00:15 useless2 yeas, and even 100hz still fails
00:15 useless2 in addition, the scope says there is NO signal at all on pins 17, 17, 19, 1
00:16 useless2 none
00:16 rue_house hmmm
00:16 useless2 i have tested the isp cable for continuity, it;;s ok
00:16 rue_house do yo uhave a cap on the avr board?
00:16 useless2 cap?
00:16 rue_house across power?
00:16 useless2 no
00:17 rue_house I shouldn't expect it to need one, but, couldn't hurt right?... but you should see activity on the clock line
00:17 rue_house and reset...
00:17 eless2 has unplugged to add a 1oufd
00:18 useless2 47u
00:18 rue_house I'm looking for dragon issues or errors in toms work
00:21 rue_house I can find a lot of people with problems, but nobody saying "it works! here is what fixed it _____"
00:22 useless2 having no traffic at a;ll on all those pins makes me think it is an issue with the dragon simply refusing to talk to it
00:23 rue_house well thats what I'm wondering about looking at these posts
00:23 eless2 lugs all back in and checks clk on pins
00:24 rue_house people have tried crystals, external clock sources, and power supplies, nothing does it
00:24 rue_house re pins 4 and 5, I dont think the avrs output their internal clock signal
00:25 useless2 nothng
00:25 rue_house hmmmm
00:25 rue_house nobody posting problems is advanced enough to take a scope to it
00:26 rue_house question, is the dragon on antistatic foam in the box?
00:26 rue_house is yours in a box?
00:26 useless2 i said yeas, just like Tom's pic
00:26 rue_house ok missed that, or I thought it was the other answer
00:27 rue_house if you take it off the foam, does it behave?
00:27 useless2 still no clk with antistatic removed
00:27 rue_house hmmmm
00:27 useless2 Setting device parameters.. FAILED!
00:28 rue_house scope the dragon directly? see if any of the pins change?
00:29 useless2 thee's 1000's o fpins on he dragon
00:29 rue_house " Problem solved. Long story short after hours of trying with no success someone on AVR Freaks suggested i wasn't getting enough power from the USB port. Replaced the USB cord and everything works perfectly."
00:29 useless2 did Tom set the internal clock select fuses riht?
00:29 rue_house aha!
00:29 rue_house kat, no the defaults are ok for this
00:29 useless2 i have power
00:30 rue_house but its usb power right?
00:30 useless2 yeas
00:30 eless2 scopes th
00:30 rue_house lots of people have dragon/tiny2313 problems
00:30 rue_house hows it look?
00:30 rue_house does it dip out?
00:31 useless2 it's clean and stable o a 100Mhz scope
00:32 rue_house hmmm
00:32 rue_house no life from any of the 4 (6-2) pins with the avr disconnected?
00:32 rue_house I wonder
00:33 rue_house you dont think they float the isp header do you?
00:33 rue_house is the isp header ground have continuty to the power header ground?
00:33 useless2 i dunno, that's why i ask yo two
00:33 rue_house I dont use that programmer :)
00:33 rue_house see if those grounds are connected
00:34 rue_house we know the vcc's aren't
00:34 useless2 0.00v diff tween the 2 gnds
00:34 rue_house 0 ohms?
00:35 eless2 powers down and tries the 2nd
00:35 rue_house hold up
00:35 rue_house I have one other idea
00:35 useless2 hmm?
00:35 rue_house the vcc on the isp, if you connect that to vcc, is there anymore life?
00:35 useless2 i think it loading the stk500 module is the problem, i am usng the dragon
00:36 rue_house I'm wondering if they have an output level converter that requires being backfed from the target controller
00:36 useless2 vcc on the isp is 4.7, vcc on the pwr header is 4.97
00:36 rue_house are they connected on your carrier?
00:36 useless2 no
00:36 rue_house could you try that for me?
00:36 useless2 k
00:38 rue_house no signal supports that idea, even tho its showing some voltage
00:38 useless2 vcc on pin20 is now 5.03
00:39 rue_house if they ahve an output driver that slurps votlage from the target contnroller, so they can ensure a match (3.3V v 5V) then it may not output anything without voltage pushed in there
00:39 useless2 failed
00:39 rue_house and you definitly need to set the isp freq to 125khz or less
00:39 rue_house same fail?
00:39 useless2 it's at 100 HZ
00:39 useless2 same fail
00:39 rue_house ok
00:39 rue_house hmm
00:41 rue_house I'm running out of staws :)
00:41 rue_house a restart of studio maybe? not?
00:42 rue_house in #avr I remember lots of people having issues with the dragon
00:42 useless2 i have restarted
00:42 rue_house one guy made a whole opto isolation card for his
00:44 useless2 AvrProg : No supportedboard found!
00:44 rue_house power cycle dragon?
00:44 useless2 i did!
00:44 rue_house hmm
00:45 rue_house this is why I love my parallel port ptogrammer :)
00:45 rue_house I'm sure this is a simple thing I just dont know about
00:45 rue_house I see lots of people having problems with 2313 and the dragon, but more with the dragon
00:45 rue_house ok, everything aside for a moment
00:46 rue_house do
00:46 rue_house you
00:46 rue_house have a 74HC244
00:46 rue_house has to be HC
00:48 rue_house "
00:48 rue_house The dragon will only function if my independent source (lm7805) is connected to Vtg, along with properly connected Reset, SCK, MISO, MOSI, and GND signals. Otherwise it doesn't see the micro or read its signature byte.
00:49 rue_house "
00:49 rue_house "The micro will work when the dragon isp header is connected as such:
00:49 rue_house Gnd-Gnd
00:49 rue_house Vtg-Vcc"
00:49 rue_house this guy repeated that like 5 times, he's prolly trying to say its the smoking gun
00:49 rue_house I dont know what vtg is
00:49 rue_house "-Vtg is pin 2 of the isp header. "
00:49 rue_house oh
00:50 rue_house you now have isp pin 2 to vcc @ 5V yes?
00:50 useless2 act244
00:50 useless2 yeas
00:51 rue_house the good parallel port programmers only seem to work with an hc244
00:51 rue_house shall we call it a night and ask tom tommorow?
00:51 rue_house if there is no activity on the pins, something rather important is amyss
00:52 rue_house yes, they confirm that pin 2 of the isp has to be connected to a 5V supply
00:53 rue_house did you connect both grounds togethor on your carrier?
00:53 rue_house the isp ground and the power ground?
00:54 useless2 no
00:54 rue_house shall we try that? its really one of my last ideas
00:54 rue_house it should be abel to read the target voltage
00:54 useless2 k
00:54 rue_house thats done pre-communications
00:55 rue_house biab
00:59 rue_house ?
01:00 rue_house when you have it all back togethor again, could you tell me the voltage on reset?
01:00 rue_house pin 1
01:02 useless2 damn, that fixed it
01:03 useless2 no error on erase
01:03 rue_house !! sweet!
01:03 useless2 1 = 4.82
01:03 rue_house shall we get the led flashing?
01:03 useless2 ok
01:04 rue_house I misplaced the page for that, one sec
01:04 useless2 that failed
01:04 rue_house do you ahve the.... hu?
01:04 rue_house you got it already?
01:04 rue_house @125khz?
01:04 useless2 already got it failed, yeas
01:05 useless2 no, it autochanged to 1Mhz
01:05 rue_house erased ok, but failed to program?
01:05 eless2 changs it
01:05 rue_house it cant at 1Mhz, has to be 1/4 the cpu clock
01:05 rue_house or lower
01:06 useless2 capt, there be blinking lite!!
01:06 rue_house ok, I'm calling it a night then
01:06 rue_house :) good night kat
01:06 useless2 umm, ok, gnite
01:06 rue_house I'll leave you with one more piece of info
01:07 rue_house http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/kat/attiny2313/
01:07 rue_house the files that were written by a human were blink_led.c blink_led.h and makefile
01:07 rue_house the rest are created when its compiled
01:07 rue_house the .h file is a technicallity
01:08 rue_house the makefile is for linux
01:08 rue_house the .c is all the source
01:08 useless2 wat a sec
01:08 rue_house yes?
01:08 useless2 ALL of pb is toggling
01:09 rue_house yes
01:09 useless2 oh
01:09 rue_house he did that so it wouldn't matter which pin the led is on
01:09 useless2 glad i used a jumper to the led instead of hardwaiting the led then
01:10 rue_house be aware of http://www.aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html dragons are subject to problems I hear
01:11 useless2 hmm,, good idea
01:11 rue_house ok, good night
01:11 useless2 thanks :-)
01:16 rue_bed !thislog
01:16 rue_bed !thislog
01:16 tobbor This one: http://rueshouse.dyndns.org:82/~ircjunk/irclogs/html/%23garfield-2013-02-04.html
01:38 useless2 XP Parallel port polling registry fixes
01:38 useless2 ---------------------------------------
01:38 useless2 On some version of windows XP the OS will poll a parallel
01:38 useless2 port to see if a printer has been attached. This can cause
01:38 useless2 problems with any programmer that is attached to this
01:38 useless2 port. So, the new installer for the programmer (v4.0.9 onwards) will disable this
01:38 useless2 feature by installing a Registry Key.
01:39 useless2 This registry entry will prevent the polling. If this fix is used then XP
01:39 useless2 will only look for a printer on boot, and will not detect
01:39 useless2 a printer that is attached when the computer is running.
01:39 useless2 http://www.aplomb.nl/TechStuff/PPPD/RegFix.zip
01:39 rue_bed but you dont have a parallel port programmer :)
01:40 useless2 might if the dragon dies
01:40 e_bed
01:40 rue_bed you might be able to turn one of the chips you have into a serial port programmer
01:40 useless2 or if it won't program the at90s4414
01:41 rue_bed if the isp works on one thing, it;ll work on them all
01:41 rue_bed *
01:41 rue_bed less the 6 pin chips
01:41 useless2 Tom said studio won't
01:41 rue_bed they had to change the protocol for those
01:41 rue_bed avrdude will
01:42 rue_bed avrdude is just an uploader
01:42 useless2 but avrdude doesn't use the dragon, so i wil have the parpot programmer
01:42 rue_bed avrdude can do the dragon
01:42 useless2 oh
01:42 rue_bed to my knowledge
01:42 useless2 ok
01:43 useless2 i'd like to know how any app can use the parport in winxp
01:43 rue_bed there is a process to register for permission
01:44 useless2 permision ?
01:44 rue_bed I dont know if my parallel programming example does that or not
01:44 rue_bed !assist tutorials/prog/
01:44 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/prog/
01:44 rue_bed I think its in there
01:44 rue_bed parport or something its called, look for a directory
01:45 rue_bed there is an html file
01:45 useless2 k
01:45 rue_bed I dont use 'index.html' so the directory is still browsable
01:46 rue_bed I dont know if all the links will still be ok
01:46 useless2 tomorrow
01:47 rue_bed do you find the possabilies of these kinda exciting?
01:48 useless2 i always have, since the first touch i had of the Apple in hte 1970's and ZX80 n 1981
01:48 rue_bed these are a new thing in low compoent count tho :)
01:48 useless2 but each generation has gotten more complicated to use
01:48 rue_bed how are you with C programming?
01:48 useless2 so was the 80186
01:49 useless2 so was the dual-core 6502 ,, 6504?
01:49 rue_bed you cant be far off, you did pascall
01:49 rue_bed there was a 6504?
01:49 useless2 i have never done C programming, which is why i grabbed bascom
01:49 rue_bed ok
01:49 useless2 it also says it does the at90s4414
01:50 rue_bed its all about having the file that defines the register set
01:50 eless2
01:50 rue_bed I'm still gradually building a library set for avrs
01:51 rue_bed I code them a bit different than pc code
01:52 rue_bed little bit more slim on memory, less modular, more macros
01:52 useless2 i have needed a cheap 8pin to do 1 or 2 channels of adc, and a meduim controller like the 2313, a "fat buss" like the 6502/8085/at90s4414 , and if i could use the newer 32 bit chips, i would
01:52 useless2 IF i had a way to use them
01:52 useless2 everythig i have, and we are talking 1000's of chips, are thru-hole
01:53 rue_bed I have some 8051 for the mecha
01:53 rue_bed trying to avoid everything being serial
01:54 rue_bed the solinoids for the mecha are hopefully gonna be faster responce operated off a parallel bus
01:55 rue_bed lots of solinoids
01:55 useless2 you canactuate them all at once, for sure
01:56 useless2 thing is, a bloody fast serial buss should be fastr than the time it takes the air to move into any muscle
01:57 rue_bed yes, but its in a digital feedback loop
01:57 rue_bed so less time transfer is prolly good thing
01:57 useless2 sounds like a tapping on metal outside
01:57 rue_bed no rest
01:58 useless2 it stopped
01:58 useless2 why does blink_led.c have two void Delay(int delay); ?
02:00 useless2 the first one is just declaring it , the 2nd one the the actualcode?
03:32 Tom_itx yes
03:32 Tom_itx it's for the compiler
03:33 Tom_itx that is something that could go in the .h file
03:33 Tom_itx but it was so short i just put it there
03:41 useless2 oh
03:42 useless2 what does the extention .h mean?
03:46 useless2 it's still highly disconcerting that it takes a 2.4Ghz 32bit cpu, a gigabyte bloated OS , to program a 8bit controller with 2k of code and ram in it
03:47 useless2 plus, there's a 32bit atmega in the dragon
03:49 useless2 Tom didja scroll upto see the problem with the dragon was the ISP gnd and vcc must be tied to the power header's gnd and vcc?
03:57 useless2 10PCS,NEW IC ATMEL DIP-28 ATMEGA8-16PU $8
04:01 useless2 VTG = voltage of target, the programmable voltage
04:02 Tom_itx i just read all that
04:02 Tom_itx yeas
04:02 Tom_itx .h is 'header'
04:02 Tom_itx .c is 'c'
04:02 Tom_itx :D
04:02 useless2 oh, ok
04:03 Tom_itx the compiler directions are in the makefile
04:03 Tom_itx now you can download avrgcc and get your c stuff set up
04:03 useless2 i have a feeling that jumpering the voltages wasn't the technically correct thing to do
04:03 useless2 *must* i use C ?
04:03 Tom_itx i don't know alot about the dragon and it's little issues cause i don't use it very much at all
04:04 Tom_itx you don't have to but everybody i know does
04:04 Tom_itx all you really need is to end up with a workable .hex file
04:05 useless2 yeas, one thing is amazing : the boost convertor can runaway and burn up, and that feature is not under the control of the 32bit cpu on the board
04:05 Tom_itx i use my little programmers instead
04:05 Tom_itx but i do have the dragon
04:06 eless2
04:06 Tom_itx the dragon does jtag too
04:06 Tom_itx and HVPP
04:06 Tom_itx high voltage parallel programming
04:06 eless2
04:06 Tom_itx in case you fuck up bad
04:06 Tom_itx seldom ever used
04:07 Tom_itx YAY!
04:07 Tom_itx kat got a blinky!
04:07 useless2 heh
04:08 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/mega168_howto_main_index.php
04:08 Tom_itx you just did the first one
04:08 Tom_itx notice how similar the code is
04:08 Tom_itx you can read the others if you want, the code will be very similar
04:08 Tom_itx minor tweaks for the chip change
04:09 useless2 i had far more than that connected to 6502/6510, in 1984, i had 2 rows across a 19" rack filled with cards , connected to the C64
04:09 Tom_itx except adc won't work
04:09 Tom_itx you'll get there with these
04:09 useless2 i kept doing things that IBM and HP said could not be done without a minicomputer or a mainframe
04:10 Tom_itx i knew no c when i started not that long ago
04:10 useless2 knowing C may be a good thing, but my goal isn't tolearn C, it's to make the chips do things
04:10 Tom_itx yeah but i can't help with bascom
04:11 useless2 if learning C is a bump in the road to making the chips work, ok
04:11 Tom_itx and i can't help too much with c
04:11 Tom_itx a little
04:12 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/index.php
04:12 Tom_itx want some reading, read Dean's articles on timers and interrupst
04:12 useless2 anotehr project that has nothng to do with measuing voltages, is to move two steppers in a homemade 30pole 16throw switch
04:12 Tom_itx off the menu
04:13 Tom_itx those will be the next step
04:13 eless2 is dining on antacids, want
04:14 Tom_itx naw not yet
04:14 Tom_itx i may go plop my ass in the chair though
04:15 useless2 ATtiny44A souns interesting too
04:16 Tom_itx i haven't used many tinys but the are powerful for small chips
04:16 useless2 dip14, drat,, i don't have a space for a dip14 on my lil pcb
04:16 Tom_itx i had the 2313 from the other little programmers i did
04:17 Tom_itx k i'm out for a bit
04:17 useless2 take care, and thanks again
07:26 Tom_itx also: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/pdf/atmel/dragonhide.pdf
08:57 rue_house kat, you can program them in asembler....
08:58 rue_house want to see the instruction set?
09:09 rue_house !assist datasheets
09:09 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/datasheets
09:09 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/datasheets/atmelinstructions.pdf
09:09 rue_house thats the good document
19:03 useless2 https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22Many+use+resume+paper%22
19:03 useless2 there is no such thing as special "resume paper"
19:04 useless2 abc also claimed in another story that some guy beat a dog with a lead pipe, but there's been no lead pipes made int he usa in 100 yrs
19:04 useless2 this is typical of the data a Ai might read, getting it's head filled with crap by humans
19:05 Tom_itx maybe it was pulled from a replumb job
19:05 Tom_itx i had a bit of lead in mine until i redid it
19:05 Tom_itx not much
19:05 Tom_itx hi kat
19:05 useless2 hi Tom
19:05 Tom_itx did you get any further along?
19:06 useless2 looked at what-ifs and such
19:06 useless2 i need a better sleep schedule than what i have, like not being awake at 4am
19:07 useless2 i need to ask rue about the tiny85's
19:07 Tom_itx what about em?
19:08 useless2 do i order them or does he?
19:08 Tom_itx oh
19:08 useless2 cause if i can program them, he doesn't need to order them
19:08 Tom_itx i don't have many tinys
19:08 Tom_itx you can program them
19:08 eless2
19:09 Tom_itx no reason you can't
19:09 eless2
19:09 useless2 but if he *already* ordered them.....
19:09 Tom_itx i doubt he as
19:09 useless2 so i need to ask first
19:09 Tom_itx has
19:12 useless2 you think it's a safe bet to make the DIP carrier handle the tiny85, the tiny2313, the tiny44/45/etc, and the big at90s4414, that all my foreseeable needs can be handled by those? naturally, smd need another carrier
19:13 useless2 is there another chip i should consider?
19:13 Tom_itx you could
19:13 Tom_itx i like the atmega 168 and 328
19:13 Tom_itx same stuff different memory
19:13 eless2
19:13 Tom_itx the 4414 is pretty old
19:13 useless2 still ~$1.50/chip?
19:13 useless2 but i *have* 4414's
19:14 rue_house hi
19:14 Tom_itx i was asking about it today
19:14 useless2 hi
19:14 tobbor Hello useless2
19:14 eless2 pokes to
19:14 Tom_itx seems there are very few fuses for it and it requires an external clock
19:14 Tom_itx the fuses i'm told need to be programmed via HVPP
19:14 Tom_itx but i can't confirm that
19:14 rue_house there is nothing wrong the the 4414
19:15 useless2 yeas, it isn't versatile, but it's got lots of io bit pins, it can do things
19:15 Tom_itx just saying..
19:15 Tom_itx the dragon will do HVPP too
19:15 useless2 yeas, and i cannot lift 200lbs anymore, but i am also still useful
19:16 Tom_itx maybe a change of nick is in order
19:17 rue_house katsmeow-afk, shall we compile that program on there now?
19:17 rue_house then you can mess with the source
19:17 eless2 hooks a camera to the 4414 , and <*presto*> has a motion detector for real c
19:17 Tom_itx which program?
19:17 useless2 what program?
19:18 Tom_itx that was my line
19:18 useless2 you said "which"
19:18 Tom_itx mm
19:18 useless2 where program ;-)
19:19 useless2 ya know, i could drop smd tiny85 into each "bone" of my robot finger
19:20 useless2 a lil spring steel, and i'd have pressure sensors
19:20 rue_house katsmeow-afk, I have not ordered the 85's yet, I dont mind ordering them, I can get 25+ can have them for the 88c ea, push the excess into shop stock
19:21 rue_house I can preprogram them for ya, save some effort
19:21 useless2 delivery time?
19:21 rue_house heh,
19:21 rue_house takes dk a day to get them here
19:21 rue_house will take me a week to write the code
19:22 rue_house will take post about 2 to 2.5 weeks to get them there
19:22 rue_house I have no problem if you want to get your own and I send you source when its ready
19:23 useless2 then it seems i should order what i need, and maybe split an order for back stock with you
19:23 rue_house ok
19:23 rue_house uh, but I'll need some to test the code
19:23 rue_house (later)
19:23 useless2 saves us each $6 to have 12 in stock,, unless it costs you $6 to ship me 12
19:24 rue_house I can develop most everything on a mega324
19:25 rue_house so then, your going to order and send me the surplus?
19:25 useless2 Tom do you use the 168/328 on usb?
19:25 rue_house to canada I pay dk $8 in chipping
19:25 Tom_itx no but i program them with my usb programmer
19:26 Tom_itx parts with a 'U' in them are usb capable
19:26 rue_house but I have to keep the package small to you or its $11 to get from me to you in <3 weeks
19:26 Tom_itx atmega32U2 for example
19:26 eless2 growels at the costs of ship
19:27 rue_house Tom_itx, how long was your head buzzing with ideas after your first no-external-hardware-chips microcontroller project?
19:27 Tom_itx it got alot worse the first of Feb too
19:27 useless2 ok, we each order what we need, and send code online
19:27 rue_house ok
19:27 Tom_itx and a partridge in a pear tree
19:27 rue_house dk shipping is REALLY fast
19:27 Tom_itx mouser is cheaper usually
19:27 rue_house I suggest holding off order till the code is easy
19:27 rue_house ready
19:28 rue_house dk 25+ is 88c ea
19:28 Tom_itx wtf you waitin for?
19:28 useless2 and known to fitinto the chip?
19:28 rue_house :) yea
19:28 Tom_itx what code are we waiting for?
19:28 rue_house the code isn't large
19:28 Tom_itx what's it gonna do
19:28 rue_house TAKE OVER HTE WORLD
19:28 Tom_itx kat
19:28 rue_house its katsmeow-afk's secret project
19:28 Tom_itx why don't you find avrgcc and install it
19:29 rue_house do you need avr-gcc with studio?
19:29 rue_house dosn't it have a built in compiler?
19:29 useless2 i have a suspect the 85 cannot hold the binary-to-7seg convert code,, which is sorta ok, because i can send it to a display drver and have it do the convery if that's whats needed
19:29 Tom_itx not studio6
19:29 Tom_itx not sure about the others
19:29 Tom_itx i've always used avrgcc
19:29 useless2 i have studio 4
19:29 rue_house the 85 has like 8k of flash, thats tonnes
19:29 useless2 why did i think it had 2k?
19:30 rue_house even the 4414 has 4k
19:30 Tom_itx http://sourceforge.net/projects/winavr/
19:30 rue_house katsmeow-afk, would you like to see how to program them in assembler?
19:30 rue_house I suspect your assembler-friendly
19:31 useless2 Tiggr says the tiny85 has : 512B EEPROM, 256B SRAM
19:31 rue_house eeprom is not program space
19:31 rue_house :)
19:31 rue_house its a seperate internal data eeprom
19:31 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/atmega32U4/asm/blink_u4test.asm
19:31 Tom_itx there's an asm program for an avr
19:32 useless2 ah : ATtiny85= [!what][!avr] The high-performance Atmel picoPower AVR RISC-based CMOS 8-bit microcontroller combines 8KB ISP flash memory
19:32 useless2 that's what i get for reading her memory myself
19:32 rue_house there ya go, 9k
19:32 rue_house er 8k
19:33 Tom_itx kat, here's a similar basic blinky in asm: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/tiny10/t10blink.asm
19:33 rue_house so kat, your using '374 to shift/drive the displays then?
19:33 Tom_itx for the attiny10
19:34 rue_house tea! or I'm gonna fall asleep
19:34 useless2 or some other latch, yeas
19:35 useless2 blinking with the tiny10 is sooo much smaller than blinking with the bigger chip!
19:39 eless2 ponders making the grocery run early to
19:40 Tom_itx the code would work on yours
19:40 Tom_itx just needs a different header file
19:42 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/attiny45/PWM/
19:42 Tom_itx pwm on one
19:42 Tom_itx in c
19:44 useless2 naturally, i don't have a tiny45 either, but i have considered them favorably
19:44 Tom_itx the code is very portable
19:44 Tom_itx minor mods and it would work on yours
19:44 useless2 err, http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/attiny45/PWM/ isn't an asm file
19:44 Tom_itx no
19:44 Tom_itx it's c
19:44 Tom_itx i've done a tiny bit of both
19:45 useless2 no, i mean it didn't work to open the url in the text editor
19:46 useless2 it opened, but was in a text editor
19:46 Tom_itx mine does that
19:47 useless2 FF is screwy lately, it would have downloaded the hile i clicked on and then deleted it and not opened the editor
19:47 useless2 but i can open urls directly in TextPad, but the urls in the text file aren't clicky
19:49 useless2 that's a ton of code for a pwm control, isn't it? i thought all i'd need do is poke the 0-255/65535 into the pwm register?
19:49 useless2 and set a clock value
20:15 Tom_itx mostly just setting registers
20:15 Tom_itx setting up the timers for the right period etc
20:27 eless2 ponders wrapping cayenne pepper bits in bread, and swallowing that, as a replacement for caf
20:31 rue_house kat, the t10 blink is in assembler, cant do C on the T10
20:31 rue_house or the T13's I have
20:32 eless2
20:32 rue_house how does the assembler look to you?
20:33 useless2 wel, i don't see what the BRNE is comparing to
20:33 useless2 dec r16, then br if ne to what?
20:33 Tom_itx break if not equal
20:34 useless2 not equal to what tho?
20:34 Tom_itx what are you looking at?
20:34 Tom_itx the 10 stuff
20:34 useless2 t10blink.asm
20:35 useless2 if not equal(x,y) then break --- if x is r16, what is y ?
20:35 useless2 what is the brne other r to compare r16 to?
20:36 Tom_itx umm i'm not quite sure but probably zero
20:36 Tom_itx i think it goes until it underflows or rolls over
20:36 useless2 i don't see the zero specified, or where r16 is loaded with anything
20:37 Tom_itx i don't fully understand it yet either
20:37 useless2 i could assume the r16 is zero when the avr wakes up, but that's bad form in programming
20:38 useless2 but if it is zero, then dec rolls it over to 255, but i still see nothing to compare it to
20:38 useless2 i'd expect syntax like "BNE 12 loop"
20:38 useless2 or "BNE r3 loop"
20:39 useless2 or "cmp 12 r16", "bne loop"
20:39 useless2 in some cpu there is a bnz for "brne 0 r16"
20:40 Tom_itx branch if not equal
20:40 Tom_itx look at the user guide
20:40 useless2 not quibbling over the brank/break, just what the compare is to
20:40 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/pdf/atmel/AVR_instruction_set.pdf
20:41 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/pdf/atmel/ASM_User_guide.pdf
20:41 Tom_itx i know
20:41 Tom_itx you got me wondering now too
20:41 Tom_itx it may automatically use another register for the compare
20:41 Tom_itx what is Z reg in the user guide?
20:42 useless2 some cpu have preset read-only constant registers
20:42 rue_shop2 iirc, the BRNE and BRE just test the zero flag
20:42 useless2 Z would be zero
20:42 rue_shop2 that pdf says what all the conditions are
20:42 rue_shop2 it does a good job like the good Z80 instruction set book
20:43 Tom_itx it tests the zero flag
20:43 Tom_itx look at BRNE description in the asm pdf
20:43 Tom_itx ^^
20:43 rue_shop2 kat, its more like a z80 than a 6502 :)
20:43 Tom_itx instruction set
20:43 Tom_itx P.37
20:43 rue_shop2 http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/pdf/atmel/AVR_instruction_set.pdf
20:44 rue_shop2 same one I reffered to yesterday :)
20:44 rue_shop2 ok I'm gonna keep coding
20:46 useless2 Conditional relative branch. Tests the Zero Flag (Z) and branches relatively to PC if Z is cleared.
20:46 useless2 doesn't say what k is
20:47 rue_shop2 is k the general purpose flag?
20:47 rue_shop2 which page?
20:47 useless2 37
20:48 useless2 cpi r27,5 ; Compare r27 to 5
20:48 useless2 brne loop ; Branch if r27<>5
20:48 rue_shop2 its a relitive junp
20:48 rue_shop2 the assembler works it out
20:48 useless2 but where was 5 stored between the CPI and the BRNE ?
20:48 rue_shop2 dont try to move more than +-64 instructiions
20:49 rue_shop2 register27 is compared to literal 5
20:49 rue_shop2 the cpi sets up the flags that are used in brne
20:49 useless2 cpi r27,5 ; Compare r27 to 5 <<== this makes perfet sense
20:49 useless2 i can see testing the zero flag after that
20:49 rue_shop2 then the results are used by brne
20:49 Tom_itx what file are you looking at now?
20:50 rue_shop2 kat, do you think the assmbler or C is more for you?
20:50 useless2 oh, i see what they meant
20:50 Tom_itx k is a constant address
20:50 useless2 Tom, where is k set?
20:50 Tom_itx the nomenclature is at the top of the pdf file
20:50 rue_shop2 the assember calculatess the offset of the location to jump to
20:50 Tom_itx i'm not sure what file you're looking at now
20:51 useless2 yeas, a constant, where is it set
20:51 rue_shop2 by the assembler
20:51 useless2 to what?
20:51 rue_shop2 in the assembler you specify the label to jump to, the assembler works out the offset
20:51 rue_shop2 'loop' is the label
20:51 Tom_itx loop: would create an offset
20:51 rue_shop2 loop:
20:51 Tom_itx like a main() function
20:51 Tom_itx for example
20:51 rue_shop2 jmp loop
20:52 Tom_itx after the asmbler gets ahold of it all the labels become numbers
20:52 useless2 i know how to jmp, every 10th instruction in most 6502 code is a jmp of some kind
20:52 rue_shop2 but loop is a label, not a number...
20:52 Tom_itx one hitch about avr asm....
20:52 Tom_itx some instructions don't work on far addresses
20:52 rue_shop2 so your not saying jump 4 instructions, your saying jump to loop,
20:53 Tom_itx because it was written before they had to worry about it
20:53 rue_shop2 if loop is out of range the assembler barfs at you :)
20:53 Tom_itx so some other instructions were created to fix that
20:53 useless2 this : cpi r27,5 ; Compare r27 to 5
20:53 useless2 brne loop ; Branch if r27<>5
20:53 useless2 is conincidently a bad example
20:53 rue_shop2 look for 'loop:'
20:53 useless2 should be
20:54 useless2 brne loop ; Branch if the cmp does not result in zero
20:54 rue_shop2 kat, my assembler is rusty :) and I'v done too many processors to remeber which has which instructions :)
20:54 rue_shop2 correct
20:54 useless2 the way they wrote it, they are saying the brne is doing the compare, but it doesn't, it merely tests the zero flag
20:55 rue_shop2 I think they were sumarizing what the effect is, not the means
20:55 useless2 and the avr sets flags on every instruction, inc, dec, and cmp
20:55 eless2 nods, got that
20:56 rue_shop2 I wonder what the processor was you had to use flag settings instructions all the time on ... maybe its PICs
20:56 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/atmega32U4/asm/blink_u4test.asm
20:56 Tom_itx there's another one
20:56 Tom_itx blinks all the ports iirc
20:57 useless2 you can set flags on the 6502, but you don't need to,, a trick was to use them as single bit storage, then you could use that flag you set as a flag for anything you wanted to
20:57 useless2 like a 1bit register
20:58 rue_shop2 I recall some push/pop tricks with the z80 to do evil things
20:59 rue_shop2 like pushing a flalse return address to get it to execute another function before the return took it back to where it was uspposed to go
20:59 useless2 iirc, the z80 could put the stack anywhere, so you could do a copy by repointing the stack and then doing push/pops
20:59 rue_shop2 ooo you could too
20:59 rue_shop2 I made a new z80 board
21:00 useless2 yeas, pushing fake returns was common, so the ret would run another routine instead of the next routine
21:00 rue_shop2 I used one of those 256k sram chips, and a 2M eeprom for code
21:00 rue_shop2 the system is 4 chips
21:01 rue_shop2 the z80, flash, ram, a 7404 and a 7432 (rw/io demuxing)
21:01 rue_shop2 its asembled with soldered wire-wrap wire
21:01 rue_shop2 :) I cant flash the eeprom yet
21:01 eless2
21:02 rue_shop2 I'm working on a programmer, the bios chips take a hell of a packet sequence to program them
21:03 rue_shop2 AA55AA55AA5510 -> "I want to program a byte..."
21:03 rue_shop2 then the address, and byte, then a finalization packet then w a write packet
21:03 useless2 if my olde floppies are still good, i could make a 100Mhz 6502 in the next 2 yrs, and be able to run 30 yr old programs in 2015
21:03 rue_shop2 did I mention you have to unlock the 'secotr' beofre you can do anyhting?
21:04 useless2 no
21:04 rue_shop2 I have a lot of flash bios chips, I'll use them up yet
21:04 useless2 i have 300+ flash chips, dunno if they were used as bios or not
21:05 useless2 cable boxes
21:05 rue_shop2 29F0002 etc?
21:05 useless2 yeas
21:05 rue_shop2 yea, those are the ones
21:06 rue_shop2 I have about 3 different manuf's and each one uses a different packet seq for programming
21:06 useless2 some 29F010, some 29F400, some others
21:06 rue_shop2 I have ONE flash chip, 16k, that you just slowly write to and it does its thing all on its own
21:07 eless2 puts them all in parallel, so she can write the entire OS in one flash cycle
21:08 rue_shop2 :)
21:09 useless2 nah, but emergency standalone systems were available way back when, when you got a BAD_PWR signal, you dump to a static ram, and a large cap powers a few chips to empty the ram into the flash as the regular system died
21:10 rue_shop2 kat, do you know if studio will compile C? (as you have it installed)
21:11 rue_shop2 I know it will do assembler
21:11 rue_shop2 the assembler is always free :)
21:11 rue_shop2 its like progman.exe, always there, but nobody knows about ti
21:12 useless2 i dunno
21:12 rue_shop2 would you like to try a C program and find out?
21:12 useless2 9pm hee, i think i'll risk a trip to grocery store, i am down to fish and pb&j and ramen and noodles (with no sauce)
21:13 rue_shop2 ok
21:13 useless2 if i get back by 10, i canstill maybe get to bed before midnite
21:13 Tom_itx so what's the next programming step?
21:13 rue_shop2 compile blink.c?
21:13 rue_shop2 she can upload it, can she compile it
21:14 rue_shop2 I dont know if kats more into C or asm
21:14 rue_shop2 I think she knows asm more
21:14 e_shop2 sh
21:14 Tom_itx thing is, i dunno if studio uses gcc for c or not
21:15 rue_shop2 I think they do, thats how they had a C compiler before microchip did
21:15 rue_shop2 (while microchip was still charging for it)
21:15 Tom_itx so she may need to get avrgcc
21:15 Tom_itx winavr
21:15 Tom_itx whatever
21:15 rue_shop2 maybe
21:15 rue_shop2 I dunno
21:15 rue_shop2 what did you do
21:15 rue_shop2 we run #avr, we should know
21:15 rue_shop2 :)
21:16 Tom_itx i can't tell here cause all mine have it all
21:16 rue_shop2 ?
21:16 rue_shop2 did you just install it all in the start?
21:16 Tom_itx winavr studio 4 5 5.1 and 6
21:16 Tom_itx i think so
21:16 rue_shop2 which one did she get?
21:16 Tom_itx studio 4
21:16 Tom_itx from my site
21:16 rue_shop2 k
21:16 Tom_itx i pointed her to winavr from sourceforge
21:17 rue_shop2 they made some pretty big changes as they went along...
21:17 Tom_itx but see, studio 6 has it built in
21:17 rue_shop2 why dosn't she get that?
21:17 Tom_itx but it also uses visual studio
21:17 Tom_itx it's way bloated
21:17 rue_shop2 oh
21:17 Tom_itx and i'd hate to suggest that to her
21:17 Tom_itx is why i went for 4
21:18 Tom_itx it works but it takes good hardware
21:18 rue_shop2 sad
21:18 rue_shop2 the office is upgrading machines
21:18 rue_shop2 they only really read email on them
21:18 Tom_itx yeah studio 4 uses avr gcc
21:18 Tom_itx or atmel asm
21:18 rue_shop2 how many gigs of ram and ghz does that take?
21:19 Tom_itx not very much
21:39 rue_shop2 328 bytes of flash verified
21:43 rue_shop2 378 bytes of flash written
21:43 rue_shop2 huh
21:54 rue_shop2 default on T85 is 10Mhz?
22:01 rue_shop2 kat, you need to create bursts of 28 pulses per update
22:09 rue_shop2 no
22:09 rue_shop2 32 pulses
22:11 rue_shop2 p.s., its counting :)
22:13 Tom_itx default on all is 1mhz
22:13 Tom_itx i'm pretty sure
22:13 Tom_itx lowest common denominator for recovery
22:16 rue_shop2 mmm
22:17 rue_shop2 oo I have to use pin change interrupt
22:21 rue_shop2 dont have to worry about bit framing
22:21 rue_shop2 after 32 pulses STOP
22:36 Tom_itx most (if not all) arithmetic instructions will alter the zero flag (when the result is zero) and most jump instructions are based on that flag
22:36 Tom_itx (compare operations working with the zero flag too)
22:39 rue_shop2 on avr, I think so
22:40 Tom_itx i posted that for kat
22:42 rue_shop2 ok I have to make supper and get to bed
22:44 Tom_itx all i gotta do is go to bed
22:46 rue_shop2 yikes, if I didn't have this display, and those 3, I'd only have 8 left in this tube
22:46 rue_shop2 THEN Id have to go to the TUB
22:46 rue_shop2 mayeb I should buy more
22:46 Tom_itx should i use a bcd on mine?
22:46 Tom_itx i got one with that intent
22:55 rue_house did you see the character decoder code I wrote?
22:55 rue_house I got the max7192 working too
22:55 rue_house did you see my youtube vid of it?
23:17 useless2 11:05, i hath returneth
23:30 eless2 prepares for