#garfield Logs
Feb 03 2013
#garfield Calendar
00:04 rue_shop2 $321 wouldn't be bad
00:04 rue_shop2 I wonder what the real price is
00:04 rue_shop2 should I put a $1 offer on it?
00:05 rue_shop2 :)
00:05 rue_shop2 free shipping tho
00:06 useless2 you know it's just a house thermostat panel, right?
00:07 rue_shop2 but look, its got free shipping! :)
00:07 useless2 Jameson 1/2' condiut rodders ; $0.01 , 18 days left pickup only
00:07 rue_shop2 rodders?
00:07 rue_shop2 is that a bender?
00:08 useless2 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jameson-1-2-condiut-rodders-/160964817069
00:09 rue_shop2 their for fishing thru pipe or cleaning it out?
00:09 useless2 i was hoping you'd know
00:09 rue_shop2 not a clue
00:09 rue_shop2 look more like the things they use to clear drain pipe
00:09 rue_shop2 but 'conduit' is electrical term
00:10 useless2 yeas, and if conduit insides need cleaning, it needs replacing
00:10 rue_shop2 yep
00:12 rue_shop2 oh I haven't had supper yet
00:13 rue_shop2 nowodner the copious amounts of tea are not havn't much efect
00:13 useless2 yeas, you haveto drink it
00:14 rue_shop2 OH!
00:14 e_shop2 gets a towel and dries his head
00:17 rue_shop2 oooOOoo I need to test my mcs80 bus library for avr too
00:17 rue_shop2 ooo the DSO project
00:17 eless2 ponders cutting steel at mid
00:18 rue_shop2 kat, have you EVER seen a timing diagram for hardware handshaking, aka CTS goes false and when the data stops?
00:20 rue_shop2 oh the 595 library was for PC
00:21 useless2 i seen lots of handshaking of many kinds, it all looks the same or different, depending on the time
00:22 rue_shop2 I cannot find any diagrams, manufacturer or otherwise, that show timing on the stop of transmisison with CTS RTS DSR and...
00:22 rue_shop2 hmm I'm missing the 4th term
00:23 e_shop2 looks to kat with a bit of a confused expres
00:23 useless2 sounds parporty
00:23 rue_shop2 there are 4 handshaking lines on serial
00:24 rue_shop2 Clear To Send Request To Send Data Set Ready, and
00:24 rue_shop2 ----- ----- -------
00:24 useless2 dte
00:24 rue_shop2 Data Terminal ....
00:25 rue_shop2 Eaten
00:25 rue_shop2 ...
00:25 useless2 1 8 DCD (Data Carrier Detect) input
00:25 useless2 2 3 RX (Receive Data) input
00:25 useless2 3 2 TX (Transmit Data) output
00:25 useless2 4 20 DTR (Data Terminal Ready) output
00:25 useless2 5 7 GND (Signal Ground) -
00:25 useless2 6 6 DSR (Data Set Ready) input
00:25 useless2 7 4 RTS (Request To Send) output
00:25 useless2 8 5 CTS (Clear To Send)) input
00:25 useless2 9 22 RI (Ring Indicator) input
00:26 rue_shop2 data terminal ready
00:26 rue_shop2 right
00:26 useless2 https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Serial_Programming/RS-232_Connections
00:26 useless2 http://www.camiresearch.com/Data_Com_Basics/RS232_standard.html
00:26 rue_shop2 I didn't want to look it up, I'm suppsoed to knwo
00:26 rue_shop2 but no diagrams on handshake timing
00:27 rue_shop2 when i was building a printer at rifrafs, I COULD NOT get the pc to STOP sending data
00:27 rue_shop2 it would overflow, and, do random things
00:28 useless2 kill the CTS
00:28 rue_shop2 I tried
00:28 rue_shop2 I tried everything
00:28 rue_shop2 the pc was definitly using hardware handshake too
00:28 rue_shop2 but it was like it was pushing out the rest of its buffer anyhow
00:29 useless2 so this is what it's feels like to be all out of fuse holders
00:30 rue_shop2 $1 from ebay, 22 days to arrive
00:30 rue_shop2 metal is a bit thin, but I think it would hold the 15A its rating is for
00:30 useless2 qty 10 ; $4.19, fress s&h ,
00:30 useless2 Item location:
00:30 useless2 Bangkok, Thailand
00:31 useless2 you aren't paying $1 each, are you?
00:31 rue_shop2 free shipping
00:31 rue_shop2 its a $1 limit
00:31 rue_shop2 but they are all thigns I dont need
00:31 rue_shop2 they are fun to recieve and play with
00:32 rue_shop2 worth more than $1 in entertainment
00:32 useless2 2 x Panel Mount Fuse Holder For M205 5x20mm Fuses ;From Thailand ; time left: 4d 12h leftThursday, 1PM ;$0.99 ; Free shipping
00:33 rue_shop2 + 2 days handling + 20 days travel, at the rate life flies by, it will feel like tommorow when they get here
00:33 useless2 what bugs me and stops me cold is not being able to use the serial/parport in windoze
00:33 rue_shop2 er, yesterday?
00:34 useless2 hmm
00:34 useless2 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-Panel-Mount-Fuse-Holder-For-M205-5x20mm-Fuses-/250857792066
00:36 rue_shop2 I know that buyer,
00:36 rue_shop2 they are good
00:36 rue_shop2 actaully
00:36 useless2 oh, this is Sunday, they are a day ahead so it's Monday there now, so they can get and process the order today, but 4 days from their now is thorsday midnite + 12 hrs = Thorsday 1pm
00:37 rue_shop2 if you want more than $10 stuff I think I can give you a 10% discount number
00:37 eless2
00:37 rue_shop2 they ship within 8 hours
00:37 rue_shop2 want me to see if I can find a code?
00:37 useless2 i have them in fav seller list
00:37 rue_shop2 ok
00:38 useless2 i'd need to go looking for stuff to buy to hit $10
00:39 rue_shop2 you didn't need that much in fise holders?
00:39 rue_shop2 20?
00:39 rue_shop2 hmm
00:39 rue_shop2 didn't think about that
00:40 rue_shop2 on the upside, you would prolly never need more
00:40 rue_shop2 like me and my sram chips
00:40 useless2 20 fuse holders from there is under $8.50 !
00:40 rue_shop2 oh
00:40 useless2 http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-x-Panel-Mount-Fuse-Holder-For-M205-5x20mm-Fuses-FREE-SHIPPING-/250995929121
00:41 useless2 i am assuming 5x20 = 1/4x3/4 AGC type?
00:43 useless2 nope
00:45 rue_shop2 5mm is short ones
00:46 rue_shop2 try about 6x32
00:50 useless2 20 x Panel Mount Fuse Holder For 3AG 6x32mm Fuses - Fre...This seller accepts PayPal
00:50 useless2 Buy it now $8.99
00:50 useless2 Shipping:Free
00:51 eless2 is in a qua
00:53 useless2 you know of http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Wire-3-Position-Barrier-Terminal-Strip-Block-450V-30A-22-10-AWG-/170880706735 ?
00:53 rue_shop2 I bought a 12 pos for $1
00:53 useless2 ok, so you know of them?
00:53 rue_shop2 yup
00:54 rue_shop2 I put them on pcb's and run wire to them off the pcb when I need stress free pcb lugs
00:54 useless2 you think it would be possible to mount thos one a de-coppered FR4, and drill/tap up betwen the two screws you fasten the wires under?
00:55 useless2 like a 8-32, praps?
00:55 rue_shop2 having a rendering problemw ith that
00:55 useless2 so you have 2 normal oem connections on top, and the screw thru to the otehr side
00:55 rue_shop2 oh I got it
00:56 rue_shop2 so yohave access to both sides of it?
00:56 rue_shop2 hmm
00:56 rue_shop2 the plastic is pretty soft
00:56 rue_shop2 and heat and it would cascade badly
00:56 useless2 do i care about the plastic? it's also melty, it's cheap nylon
00:56 useless2 why would i heat it?
00:57 rue_shop2 if any of the connections are bad and got warm it couldcascase fail
00:57 useless2 i have 30amp strips, i want to tap off the back and fuse the back at 10amps
00:57 rue_shop2 hey you asked
00:57 rue_shop2 thats my oppinion, if its ~1A I'd say fair enough
00:57 useless2 but i am not understanding where this heat is from of which you speak
00:58 rue_shop2 bad connection lug to screw, or lug to wire, or lug to wire
00:58 useless2 yeas, but that is the same situation if i do not drill and tap it from the back
00:58 rue_shop2 only by 2/3 :)
00:59 useless2 wel, i have melted down a few http://www.ebay.com/itm/Molex-4-Terminal-Barrier-Strip-38221-0104-Only-2-shipping-/160950553813 too
00:59 rue_shop2 :)
01:04 eless2 wants to pm
01:04 eless2 doesn't know if that's possible on rue's nix b
01:05 eless2 wonders if rue will let her
01:06 useless2 hello?
01:08 rue_shop2 hello
01:08 tobbor rue_shop2! like, totally tell us about the project!
01:08 zhanx it is and goodnight kat
01:09 zhanx woke up to turn off the lights
01:09 useless2 hi zhanx, gnite zlog
01:09 useless2 erg
01:09 zhanx yep
01:09 eless2 is winding
01:10 rue_shop2 wow
01:10 rue_shop2 this program has more source in macros than actual code
01:47 rue_shop2 ok, the clock polarity is right
01:48 rue_shop2 the chip select polarity is right
01:48 rue_shop2 sending 8 bits
01:48 rue_shop2 wire!
01:57 rue_shop2 haha! SWEET, it works!
01:57 useless2 ?
01:59 rue_shop2 I got the 7219 working
01:59 rue_shop2 its sitting here counting up on 2 blue 7 segment displays right now
02:00 rue_shop2 its a whole pile of code clumped into a file, it basically worked right off the bat
02:00 Lola8088 Did you say 7 seg?
02:01 rue_shop2 yea
02:01 rue_shop2 its that chip I got from ebay to play with
02:01 Lola8088 whassit do?
02:02 rue_shop2 it operates up to 8 digits all for me
02:02 rue_shop2 I dont have to decode or update the digits
02:02 rue_shop2 it does 4 bit brightness control
02:04 Lola8088 could you use it to make the cube?
02:04 rue_shop2 there are other ways of doing that
02:04 rue_shop2 whats the cube root of 64?
02:05 Lola8088 me?
02:05 rue_shop2 I should get like _1_ proper calculator
02:05 useless2 3.7855785214287446225971626860566
02:05 useless2 umm
02:06 rue_shop2 hmm so I could make a 3x3x3 cube with it
02:06 useless2 that number is wrong, my log tables are off somewhere
02:06 Lola8088 if you had 4 of them
02:06 rue_shop2 9*3 is
02:06 useless2 4x4x4 = 64
02:06 rue_shop2 18+9
02:07 rue_shop2 no
02:07 rue_shop2 yes
02:07 rue_shop2 maybe
02:07 useless2 3.7855785214287446225971626860566 x 3.7855785214287446225971626860566 x 3.7855785214287446225971626860566 = ~54
02:07 Lola8088 one of those
02:07 rue_shop2 ok so a 4x4 cube
02:07 rue_shop2 16 * 4 is shift it 3 times
02:07 rue_shop2 16 32 64
02:07 rue_shop2 or twice?
02:08 rue_shop2 right 3 shifts is *8
02:08 rue_shop2 ok I need FOOF
02:08 rue_shop2 er d
02:08 la8088 tosses Rue a coo
02:08 rue_shop2 batcheror chow!
02:09 Lola8088 If it works, I'm seriously going to call them Rueberry.
02:09 rue_shop2 :)
02:10 rue_shop2 I'll be at rue_kitchen for a while
02:14 useless2 there is no rue_kitchen
02:14 useless2 and there could be 2 of them, since there's two buildings
02:15 useless2 and i should have turned off all the upstairs lites 3 hrs ago
02:18 Lola8088 the only thing resembling a kitchen in the shop is a box of black liquorish
02:19 useless2 oh
02:19 useless2 i guess that's so no bears are attracted in
02:21 Lola8088 maybe. I think it's more like no space. plus who wants to eat miniscule toxic elements. ick
02:22 useless2 cold drinks?
02:22 useless2 hot drinks?
02:23 Lola8088 are you thirsty?
02:23 useless2 place to wash off stuff from the garden before eating it?
02:23 la8088 hands you a glass of wa
02:23 useless2 i am not thirsrty, i was mentioing reasons to have akitchenette in the barn
02:24 useless2 besides, it's handy to have a unfrozen garden hose to put out a fire or cool some welding/cuting
02:24 Lola8088 he doesn't seem to drink much either... that might be why he's so tired... hmmmm
02:25 useless2 it's an olde trick to fit tight parts by heating or cooling them
02:25 useless2 and after heating something to bang it apart, it canbe nice to cool it immeadiately to toss it in the truck to tak eto town to get a replacement before the store closes
02:27 Lola8088 yeah... we do that in the civilian world too. expand contract... yay physics.
02:27 useless2 i do keep a gallon jug of water at eavery place i am likely to sit a while, so there's several around the house
02:28 useless2 i get dehydrated easily, so i drink a lot of oxygen hydrate
02:28 Lola8088 it's a very good idea. I keep water a few places too. I don't have a hot water tank, so I have to make up for it
02:28 useless2 i turn on the hot water under the bathroom sink to wash my hair
02:29 Lola8088 when i was a kid, we had a hole in the floor upstairs and a funnel on the wall. when we wanted to shower we heated the water on the stove and took it upstairs to pour it in the hole.
02:30 useless2 why don't you have that anymore?
02:31 Lola8088 I moved. probably... 50-60 times.
02:32 useless2 can't make it again?
02:33 Lola8088 sure... except the place i'm in now has a beautiful hot water on demand system. endless hot water... as long as the propane tanks are full
02:33 useless2 but you just said , ergggggg
02:33 rue_shop2 ok, water is heating
02:33 rue_shop2 hopefully to a boil
02:34 Lola8088 don't burn the water... it's sensitive.
02:34 useless2 electric on demand systems are esay and fairly cheap if you can build it yourself, but they pull a ton of power when on
02:35 useless2 easy
02:35 Lola8088 yeah... propane is so cheap compared to electricity here. my dryer, stove, oven, hot water all run on it
02:36 useless2 four 4500w elements one after the otehr in a 2" water pipe, and maybe a small recirc pump, and maybe a baby tank
02:37 Lola8088 http://hackaday.com/2010/05/23/composting-to-create-hot-water/
02:38 Lola8088 that's what I'll do next.
02:38 useless2 you don't wanna cool the compost, do you? or be scrubbing it off the pipes when it's done?
02:39 useless2 wow what a waste of hay bales!
02:40 Lola8088 once it's going, it won't stop. and once it's done, it gets burried again, and the compost is put in the garden
02:40 Lola8088 I'm going to use laurel wood chips
02:41 Lola8088 I think they did that to make it look purdy
02:41 useless2 Wonder if this could be used to heat my pool? Right now I have two large solar water heating panels doing the job but they are an eye sore.
02:41 useless2 I bet a steaming pile of stinking compost would look much better than the solar heating panels.
02:41 Lola8088 yup... make one big enough, six months of free hot water... and i mean HOT
02:41 Lola8088 if you don't like it, plant ground cover on it
02:42 Lola8088 tropicals
02:42 Lola8088 we're going to have it heat a jaccuzi
02:42 useless2 i was quoting from the webpage
02:43 Lola8088 also... compost, properly maintained, doesn't smell.
02:43 useless2 i know, i grew up on a farm
02:43 Lola8088 http://smallfarms.cornell.edu/2012/10/01/compost-power/
02:44 Lola8088 i like that design
02:46 Lola8088 I'd also like it to heat our winter greenhouse
02:48 useless2 i seem to remember some place poured compost ingredients into a shell around their house at the start of winter, so the house never felt the cold
02:48 useless2 in the spring they emptied the compost space into the gardens
02:49 Lola8088 might it catch the house on fire...
02:49 Lola8088 must have been fairly safe, put it around the foundation.
02:49 useless2 i dunno, brick is hard to light
02:49 useless2 but i got no details on how they did it
02:51 useless2 i don't like the idea of the compost organism, or the winter critters that burrow into it to keep warm, anywhere near the house
02:51 useless2 the compost organisms could just as easily compost the house itself
02:51 Lola8088 another idea i had was to build a cob oven and embed coil pipe in the foundation... but that requires a LOT of wood... so it would only be a temperary solution.
02:53 Lola8088 or you just run the hot tub on bread day.
02:53 Lola8088 it's all about the hot tub.
02:54 useless2 what's special about bread day?
02:54 Lola8088 i would light the fire for the cob oven to bake bread... thus heating the water on bread day.
02:56 useless2 but you'd haveto burn more wood to heat the tub PLUS the bread, you might better make a tub heater and warm the bread with that
02:57 Lola8088 ...no i wouldn't.
02:57 rue_shop2 it took me about 2 or 3 years, but I did it
02:57 Lola8088 a cob oven, properly heated takes 12 hours of stoking.
02:57 rue_shop2 I sorted the first box of loose scerws I ever started making
02:57 Lola8088 hi5 rue
02:58 useless2 rue, i hope you used the robot arm you built to do it?
02:58 rue_shop2 now, the sad part, filling it back up from one of the 3 large buckets of loose scerws
02:58 rue_shop2 no I been hand sorting them into machine and non-machine thread
02:58 Lola8088 is it worth the time spent doing it?
02:59 useless2 ah, i paid $15 for a 5 gallon bucket of mixed 1" sheet metal self-drilling and 1.5" drywall screws
02:59 Lola8088 nice.
02:59 useless2 well, the bucket has at least $200 of screws if i went to HomeDepot and bought them there
03:00 Lola8088 but couldn't you just leave them in the bucket... and pick out what you need as you go?
03:00 useless2 only if i need a handfull at a time
03:01 useless2 considering i am not going to ever work on the house again, never going to finish it, it's still a wasted $15
03:02 Lola8088 meh... you'll find something to put them in.
03:02 useless2 neighbor's tired, pvc pipes, electrical lines, ac freon tubing, praps?
03:02 useless2 tires
03:03 Lola8088 heh heh ehh ehehe he he
03:05 useless2 i need to goto bed, it's 3am
03:05 useless2 it is 3 am,, it am 3 is
03:05 useless2 am 3, it is
03:06 Lola8088 gnight lady. :)
03:06 useless2 gnites :-)
03:10 Lola8088 Did rue go to bed 2?
03:27 rue_shop2 ok I'm fed
03:27 rue_shop2 ooo pretty blue numbers are counting
03:28 Lola8088 you staying up all night?
03:29 rue_shop2 "yes"
03:29 Lola8088 :D
03:29 rue_shop2 I had other things i wanted to do, I have no idea what they were
03:30 Lola8088 wow... murdock is on stng
03:30 Lola8088 I hope they weren't important things
03:30 rue_shop2 so blue
03:34 Lola8088 yay! my cat came home
03:34 rue_shop2 how longs it been gone!?
03:35 Lola8088 she disappeared last night... I think she heard that your cat didn't come back... so she could do that too.
03:35 rue_shop2 :/
03:35 rue_shop2 she always turns up by 6am
03:37 Lola8088 she's so happy to come back... drooly drooooooly
03:40 rue_shop2 lots of love
03:48 Lola8088 would you come over for dinner tomorow?
04:10 rue_shop2 ok oops I'm flalling asleep
04:11 Lola8088 you don't have to if you don't want to
04:36 Lola8088 not the sleeping part... the dinner part
12:10 rue_bed hi
12:28 Lola8088 good morning
12:28 Lola8088 :)
12:35 Tom_itx not anymore
12:38 rue_bed hey, I dont have to scamble to make lunch
12:38 rue_bed its all good
12:40 Tom_itx i hear you had a free dinner offer too
12:40 rue_bed I look at it as a 'get out of deciding what to make for supper' ticket
13:15 Tom_itx next one is on you though :)
13:25 rue_house Lola8088,
13:28 eless2 lays on the table as comfortably as poss
13:30 eless2 lays on the chair as comforchairy as poss
13:30 useless2 nope, doesn't work
13:31 rue_house back problem?
13:32 useless2 there is that, but i was looking at the "tabl" in "comfortable", and laying on the "table", and trying to do the same to "chair"
13:32 rue_house ah
13:38 useless2 if you feel chairy-table , you might give away something, but feeling tabley-chair prolly won't do anything for you
13:43 eless2 accidently made a booboo last nite with those fuse holders, but prolly won't need to get more for a w
13:45 rue_house keep an eye open for tiny85
13:46 rue_house $1.39 ea from dk
13:47 Tom_itx why the 85?
13:48 useless2 it's big enough
13:48 useless2 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=tiny85&_sacat=0&_from=R40 <<== is that the new tiny85 ?!?
13:49 Tom_itx http://www.ebay.com/itm/15x-Atmel-8-bit-Microcontroller-ATTINY85-20PU-/330825781136?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d06c0cf90
13:50 Tom_itx you want sop or dip?
13:50 eless2 looks at http://www.ebay.com/itm/15x-Atmel-8-bit-Microcontroller-ATTINY85-20PU-/330825781136
13:51 Tom_itx 20 for 25
13:52 useless2 the 85 looks like it has barely enough pins
13:52 Tom_itx from canada
13:52 Tom_itx http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-X-ATTINY85-ATTINY85-20PU-20-free-DIP-socket-VERY-FAST-SHIPPING-CODE12-/221184788039?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item337fa40647
13:53 Tom_itx free dip socket
13:54 eless2 hands the url to
13:55 rue_house they can NOT ship it from canada to canada for $1.50
13:56 rue_house hmm $26.50 for 20 of them
13:56 useless2 wow, if 20 is $25, wouldn't 40 be $50 and 50 be ~$35? but the cheapest 50 is $95 !
13:56 rue_house $1.33 ea
13:57 useless2 i seem to recall doing a value comparison and the 14pin avrs won
13:57 rue_house the tiny26 is the cheapest adc available
13:57 Tom_itx .90c from mouser
13:57 Tom_itx http://cz.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Atmel/ATtiny85-20SU/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtkfMPOFRTOlzm3F7l5sNgt
13:57 rue_house dip! dip!
13:58 Tom_itx pfft
13:59 rue_house hmm
13:59 m_itx bends the pins down for
14:00 rue_house oh, there is the trick, canada to canada is usd
14:00 rue_house in
14:00 useless2 i useto bend the pins to make smd out of dips all the time in the 1980's, i got "talked to" about that, it was "frowned on"
14:01 Tom_itx i didn't ask
14:01 Tom_itx just a rebel here
14:03 useless2 well, they discovered i was doing it, i beat everyone else's board density all the time, including the pricey autorouter software
14:05 useless2 i also did J-leads and used wirewrap sockets as pcb standoffs
14:40 rue_house kat, if I get 25 tiny85 from dk, they are 0.88 ea
14:40 useless2 i see
14:40 rue_house so I think I should just do that
14:41 rue_house I need some for my shop anyhow
14:42 useless2 i has 2 questions: A) can i has qty 20? 2) if i has one, can i copy the code to make more ?
14:44 rue_house I can give you the code, set you up with avrdude and a parallel port programmer
14:45 useless2 i have Dragon and STK-500, never used them, i was extremely distracted by dogs and not knowing if i was going to jail for 10 yrs for raking leaves
14:46 useless2 so they been sitting a few years
14:46 useless2 but i can use whatever you want me to use, since at this point i have used nothing
14:47 rue_house oh
14:47 rue_house k
14:48 useless2 is that convienent?
14:48 rue_house the stk500 will program them fine
14:50 useless2 but you use nix and i use winders
14:50 rue_house avrdude is available for both
14:51 eless2 doesn't know avrdude, but can often follow direct
14:51 rue_house its easy to upload software
14:51 rue_house do you have any avrs?
14:52 useless2 i have *many* at90s4414 , and ~4 otehr physically smaller chips
14:53 useless2 you need any at90s4414 , for external memory use and massive parallel projects?
15:00 eless2 wonders where everyone went, and if she should wander away
15:02 eless2 walks away from tobbor's chow plate like she wasn't interested i
15:04 rue_house makeing lunchfest
15:12 useless2 do you think i might learn something if i look at your C code?
15:12 rue_house kat, would you install avrdude for windows, and I'll see if I can do up some code to flash an led on the 90s4414 as a test?
15:13 rue_house dunno, I'm happy to share source
15:13 useless2 i just finished getting dressed to go outside (boots, coat, gun, etc)
15:13 rue_house ok, later then
15:14 useless2 atm, i dunno wher the stk/dragon is, i need to look for them, i packed them for the move to Fla and have not unpacked them
15:14 rue_house ok work on that, and tell me when your ready
15:14 rue_house (whenever)
15:15 useless2 it's ok, i can shorten thetime outide, all the outside prep is the same for the upstairs, except for the gun
15:15 useless2 i'll look thru some boxes, most have labels still
15:16 rue_house the 4414 has a mcs48 like bus mode
15:17 useless2 yeas, i think it was a upgrade 8085 clone
15:17 rue_house oh wait, I asked for 4414 and I got 8515
15:17 rue_house ah there
15:19 rue_house 4k of space, ok
15:19 useless2 afk, looking for stk, checking house outside (water tank, etc), etc
15:58 rue_shop2 AHA! I found the avr breadbaord! its in the reprap box!
16:01 rue_shop2 step 1, a 7 segment decoder
16:01 rue_shop2 I made one of those once...
16:03 rue_shop2 I did it for the vfd code
16:19 rue_shop2 oh it only requires divide by 10
17:20 rue_shop2 ok multipliers of 9.78 and 13.69
17:31 rue_house katsmeow-afk, how are you stalked for 74--16...4?
17:31 rue_house 5? 4?
17:32 rue_house 164, parallel out
17:44 rue_shop2 !assist tutorials
17:44 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials
18:11 rue_shop2 testing is intersting
18:11 rue_shop2 I need 7*4 wires with built in resistors
18:11 rue_shop2 say, 220R?
18:11 rue_shop2 330?
18:11 rue_shop2 hmm
19:27 rue_shop2 mmm fun playing with 4 7 segment displays wired up to 4 74ls164
19:40 useless2 i cannot find the stk, i found: Dragon (it has no sockets to put chips into), qty 6 AT89C5224PC , qty 1 AT90s2313-10PI , qty2 ATTINY2313-20PI , qty 200 at90s4414-8
19:43 useless2 i have no shift registers, i have lots of various 4bit, 8bit, 16bit, 18bit latches
19:46 rue_house kat
19:46 rue_house http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuNvEgS4VOY
19:46 rue_house ok we can set it up for 74--374
19:47 rue_house I'll test with the 164 for reason of realestate
19:48 rue_house kat, have a breadboard, 5V power supply, led and resistor?
19:48 rue_house 200!?
19:48 rue_house wow
19:52 useless2 i have no breadboard or 5v psu
19:53 useless2 i was bottom feeding, found them for like 20 cents each, thought they'd go well with 65C02/6510
19:54 useless2 i have not used *any* of the chips i have accumulated, reels of chips for projects, and the pcbs, because i have no pcb driller, and damned if i am going to drill 100's of holes by hand
19:55 rue_house ok well, wanna dead bug a test circuit for avr led flasher?
19:55 rue_house :)
19:55 useless2 all these projects i am doing are with perfboard and point-to-point hand wiring
19:55 rue_house it might be an idea to get a breadboard for testing out the fine end of that tho
19:55 rue_house ok
19:55 rue_house ah, wire wrap?
19:56 useless2 wire, no wrapping
19:56 rue_house I have all the stuff, but havn't actaully done that on a long time
19:56 rue_house ok, well
19:56 rue_house I have to go, you wanna rather hings up
19:56 rue_house is the dragon 6 or 10 pin?
19:57 useless2 rue, just like the DA's office tellingme i goto jail if i make the dog angry (so i have 5ft piles of trash all over the house now, 10 yrs later), my pcb driller got killed (so i do no pcb-based electronics any more)
19:58 useless2 6 or 10 pin where?
19:58 rue_house on the dragon
19:58 rue_house connector on there somewhere
19:58 useless2 where on he dragon, there's headers and plated thru empty holes everywhere on it
20:00 Tom_itx kat,
20:00 rue_house it'll be a 6 or 10 pin header
20:00 useless2 there's usb, 6pin ISP, 10pin JTAG, 6pin power (if the usb is not used, 20 holes for a HV header, and no sockets to put in the avr to program
20:00 Tom_itx kat,
20:00 rue_house I think I lost my truck keys
20:00 useless2 Tom,
20:00 rue_house 6pin isp
20:00 rue_house you wire it to the avr
20:00 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/dragon/dragon3a.jpg
20:00 rue_house your ok
20:00 Tom_itx right there
20:00 useless2 if you use the ISP, there's no power to the programmer?
20:01 Tom_itx the isp doesn't have power on it either
20:01 Tom_itx look at the pic
20:01 useless2 so, thee's no power to prgram the chip, wonderful
20:01 Tom_itx yes there is
20:01 Tom_itx it's on a separate header
20:02 Tom_itx and it looks like i need to reset my GD router again
20:02 useless2 it's on the 6pin power header i mentioned? how did it get there if there is no power on the ISP cable??
20:02 Tom_itx the dragon doesn't supply v thru the isp
20:02 useless2 yep, your dragon3a.jpg is what i have
20:03 Tom_itx now i'm gonna go reset the router
20:03 useless2 i know he dragon can supply no power, ther eis no battery and it isn't recieving any from anywhere else
20:03 Tom_itx see the pwr header?
20:03 Tom_itx i used that
20:04 useless2 yeas, i have said there is a 6pin power header THREE times now
20:04 useless2 this is the 2nd tme i am saying i have no 5v power
20:04 Tom_itx sry i just walked in
20:04 Tom_itx and i'm not about to read the scroll back
20:04 useless2 oh
20:04 useless2 k
20:04 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/attiny2313/attiny7.jpg
20:04 rue_house kat, most convienently, a usb port has 5V
20:04 Tom_itx like that
20:04 Tom_itx ^^
20:05 useless2 but you aren't using the usb port
20:05 rue_house and the digits to and use red and black wire for the power thru the cables :)
20:05 rue_house dosn't mean you cant slurp power from one
20:05 Tom_itx my programmer supplies power if it is set to
20:05 Tom_itx via the usb
20:06 rue_house lots of cell phone chargers are regulated 5V too, I buy them up from the thrift store :)
20:06 Tom_itx brb
20:09 rue_house its ok, they went and used a female db25 on the computer, you can jab wires right into it
20:09 rue_house the programmer you have is usb tho, yes?
20:09 useless2 yeas
20:09 rue_house cool, the programer can provide programming power to the avr
20:10 rue_house I have to go, bck in a few hours
20:10 rue_house kat, install 'avrdude'
20:10 useless2 but you don't want to use the usb for power or programming, so i cannot see how the dragon is going to get the program or send it to the avr
20:11 Tom_itx where you off to?
20:11 Tom_itx i'm just gettin started
20:11 Tom_itx u can't leave now
20:11 useless2 what chip will i be programming?
20:11 Tom_itx what chip do you have to program?
20:12 eless2 checks the scrollback.
20:12 useless2 [19:28] <useless2> i cannot find the stk, i found: Dragon (it has no sockets to put chips into), qty 6 AT89C5224PC , qty 1 AT90s2313-10PI , qty2 ATTINY2313-20PI , qty 200 at90s4414-8
20:12 m_itx lost his in the res
20:13 useless2 [19:40] <useless2> i was bottom feeding, found them for like 20 cents each, thought they'd go well with 65C02/6510
20:13 useless2 [19:41] <useless2> i have not used *any* of the chips i have accumulated, reels of chips for projects, and the pcbs, because i have no pcb driller, and damned if i am going to drill 100's of holes by hand
20:13 Tom_itx 2313 is a good one
20:13 Tom_itx use it
20:13 useless2 i have no 20 pin sockets
20:13 Tom_itx i didn't either
20:13 Tom_itx i made an adapter
20:13 Tom_itx no breadboard?
20:14 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/attiny2313/attiny9.jpg
20:14 Tom_itx that's the adapter i made for my 2313s
20:15 Tom_itx don't use that to wire the isp though, i had a wire bacwards there
20:15 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/attiny2313/attiny2.jpg
20:16 useless2 i know where my dip40 sockets are, but don't see my dip14 sockets (which i could butt togther to make dip20)
20:16 Tom_itx no sip sockets?
20:16 Tom_itx i use those sometimes
20:17 useless2 you visegrip the smd chip to the pcb to program it?
20:18 useless2 i guess i could saw up a dip40 to make a smaller socket
20:18 Tom_itx i wound up holding it with my thumb, the clothespin didn't hold evenly
20:18 Tom_itx the thumb works for lots of handy things
20:18 Tom_itx i sit on it alot
20:18 useless2 send the mill quill down on it, that should work
20:19 useless2 don't get me wrong, i don't disparage you for having a mill, but i don't see why i couldn't have a pcb driller
20:20 useless2 i wonder if rue is coming back to verify we will do a 2313, and if so then what pins to use
20:21 Tom_itx what is the program gonna do?
20:21 useless2 i have a dip40 zif socket somewhere
20:21 useless2 he wants to blink a led with it
20:21 Tom_itx we can do that
20:21 useless2 we've never been that intimate, Tom
20:22 m_itx gets all red in the
20:22 useless2 :-)
20:23 Tom_itx mind you, i don't have one to test it with
20:23 Tom_itx but it will work
20:23 Tom_itx are you gonna write the blinky or is it provided?
20:24 useless2 rue said he would have it, but i don't think he does,, and i don't know what avr he wrote it for
20:24 Tom_itx i'll make one
20:24 Tom_itx you need the hex or do you want to compile it yourself?
20:24 Tom_itx do you have avrgcc?
20:25 Tom_itx and avrdude
20:25 Tom_itx or studio
20:26 useless2 no, no, and no
20:26 useless2 and what?
20:26 Tom_itx avrdude is the program that talks to your programmer to upload the hex file
20:26 Tom_itx or atmel studio will also do that
20:26 useless2 the thing is, we were talking about a dip8 avr, and i have no dip8 avr, rue was going to get them
20:26 Tom_itx it's the windows ide for it
20:27 useless2 the studio cd was with the stk, no clue where it is
20:27 Tom_itx you can download studio but that may take too long
20:27 useless2 on dsl?
20:27 Tom_itx oh
20:27 Tom_itx i'd suggest downloading studio 4
20:27 useless2 do i need to get dialup?
20:27 Tom_itx not 5 or 6
20:27 Tom_itx they're way too bloated
20:28 Tom_itx rue will tell you to download avrgcc and avrdude
20:28 Tom_itx i have all the above
20:28 Tom_itx you're on windows right?
20:28 useless2 winxp
20:28 Tom_itx same here
20:29 Tom_itx which would you rather use?
20:29 Tom_itx a cmd line or gui
20:29 useless2 hmm, i have BASCOM on this puter
20:29 useless2 gui
20:29 Tom_itx you have a dragon right?
20:29 Tom_itx studio will recognize that
20:29 useless2 yeas sir'
20:30 Tom_itx where it may not recognize an aftermarket programmer
20:30 Tom_itx avrdude will see just about anything
20:30 Tom_itx i can upload studio to my site so you don't have to register and hunt for it
20:31 useless2 http://www.atmel.com/tools/atmelstudio.aspx has only v6
20:31 Tom_itx there's a place for older ver there somewhere
20:31 Tom_itx i haven't looked in a while
20:31 Tom_itx you will need a couple service packs too
20:32 useless2 are you going to package it all up that i need, or do i hunt and seach for each piece on theweb?
20:32 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/studio/
20:32 Tom_itx ok, you don't need all those
20:32 Tom_itx get the xxxxx418.exe
20:33 Tom_itx and
20:33 Tom_itx the 418sp3.exe
20:33 Tom_itx item 2 and 3
20:33 Tom_itx run the setup before the service pack obviously
20:34 useless2 the .inc files?
20:34 Tom_itx no
20:34 Tom_itx you don't need those
20:34 useless2 do i want to use bascom?
20:34 Tom_itx i've posted those for various people on ocasion
20:34 Tom_itx no
20:34 useless2 why not?
20:35 Tom_itx we will use c
20:35 Tom_itx bascom is basic isn't it?
20:35 useless2 i don't know c , i was told many times to stay away from it, so i never learned it
20:35 useless2 never met anyone who used it
20:35 Tom_itx well i'm not far behind you there
20:35 useless2 is basic, yeas
20:35 Tom_itx i use it a bit
20:35 Tom_itx i've never used bascom but i've heard of it
20:36 Tom_itx i'll write you a simple blinky in c for it
20:36 useless2 dogamed ff, it will dl the files, then delete them
20:36 Tom_itx really?
20:36 Tom_itx mine doesn't
20:36 useless2 mine didn't useto
20:37 Tom_itx mmm
20:37 eless2 popped open a dosbox and did : wget -Pc:vr\ http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/studio/AVRStudio4.18SP3.exe
20:38 useless2 *that* always works
20:38 Tom_itx :)
20:38 Tom_itx get the setup too
20:38 Tom_itx it'll take longer
20:39 eless2 nods,, figuring the patch is useless without the program to p
20:39 useless2 185.86K/s
20:39 Tom_itx i'll go work on the blinky
20:39 useless2 you have a pretty fast upload, i am throttled on uploads
20:39 Tom_itx cable
20:39 useless2 no hurry, i have no way to connect the chip to the puter anyhow
20:40 Tom_itx you can work on that during the upload
20:41 useless2 but what chip? the 2313? we going to forget rue and all that work he didn't do? oh,, he was going to make the 7-seg driver too, but on the tiny87 which we don't have any of
20:41 Tom_itx it'll work on this one just fine
20:41 Tom_itx nice thing about avr, they're fairly portable
20:42 useless2 i wasn't going to use the 2313, i have only the 2 chips, and the tiny87 is 88 cents, the 2313 is $1.30 or more
20:42 Tom_itx do you have an 87?
20:42 eless2 looks clueless and fraz
20:42 Tom_itx i can use that
20:42 useless2 nope : [20:28] <useless2> but what chip? the 2313? we going to forget rue and all that work he didn't do? oh,, he was going to make the 7-seg driver too, but on the tiny87 which we don't have any of
20:42 Tom_itx i don't care which one we use
20:43 Tom_itx oh
20:43 Tom_itx ok
20:43 Tom_itx we can stick with what you have and what is easiest to wire up
20:43 Tom_itx just tell me what that is
20:43 useless2 [14:27] <rue_house> kat, if I get 25 tiny85 from dk, they are 0.88 ea
20:45 useless2 well,, i wanna wire up a chip i can use, the projects all need an adc, my at90s4414 have no adc
20:45 useless2 i dunno what a AT89C5224 is
20:45 Tom_itx doesn't look like the 2313 has adc either
20:45 useless2 that leavs the 2313's
20:46 Tom_itx we can blink an led with it and hook up the 7 seg stuff
20:46 useless2 but cannot get the analog data into it to drive into the 7-segs
20:46 Tom_itx not on that one, no
20:46 Tom_itx it has spi though
20:47 Tom_itx for external adc
20:47 Tom_itx find one that will suit and we can use that
20:47 useless2 does attiny2313 = AT90s2313 too?
20:47 Tom_itx 89cxxx sounds like flash
20:47 Tom_itx i doubt it
20:48 useless2 The high-performance, low-power Atmel 8-bit AVR RISC-based microcontroller combines 2KB ISP flash memory, 128B ISP EEPROM, 128B internal SRAM, universal serial interface (USI), full duplex UART, and debugWIRE for on-chip debugging. The device supports a throughput of 20 MIPS at 20 MHz and operates between 2.7-5.5 volts.
20:49 Tom_itx analog comparitor
20:49 Tom_itx maybe not adc though
20:49 useless2 i have no data in Tiggr for the AT90s2313
20:49 Tom_itx i just looked it up
20:50 Tom_itx no adc
20:50 Tom_itx just a comparitor
20:50 useless2 someone said my at90s4414-8 were obsolete and no one in their right mind would use them, so i shut up and didn't dl any data sheets for the 90s series
20:50 Tom_itx i'm not sure
20:50 Tom_itx i've not used them
20:51 Tom_itx yeah that looks like an old chip
20:51 Tom_itx back in the 8515 era
20:51 Tom_itx pretty dated
20:52 useless2 so what if it still works?
20:52 Tom_itx no adc
20:52 useless2 hell, i am pretty dated too, and i can stil perform
20:52 Tom_itx i'm checking..
20:52 useless2 i know it has no adc
20:52 Tom_itx oh
20:52 Tom_itx but you said you needed adc
20:52 Tom_itx and i'm not sure current programmers support it, i haven't looked yet
20:53 useless2 i have 300 20Mhz 10bit adc chips to use with those, bascom and stk500 support the at90s4414
20:53 Tom_itx ok
20:54 Tom_itx dragon supports at90can and at90pwm but not at90s4414
20:54 Tom_itx that i can see
20:54 useless2 my stress point in getting the at90s4414 was they can use external ram and memory-mapped anythings i can hang on their pins
20:55 Tom_itx avrdude will support it
20:55 useless2 which means at 20 cents ech, i can sprinkle them into the C64's
20:56 Tom_itx no
20:56 Tom_itx oh
20:56 Tom_itx yeah
20:56 Tom_itx but you will have to use avrdude to program it probably
20:56 useless2 6510 aren't easy to find, and 6502/65C02 are $10-$15 each
20:56 Tom_itx doesn't look like studio supports it anymore
20:56 Tom_itx that i can see anyway
20:56 useless2 "anymore"
20:56 useless2 , ut i got the v4 from you, not the v6, so "now" doesn't matter
20:57 Tom_itx i'm looking in the stuido 4 help file
20:57 Tom_itx ok it appears the stk500 will support it
20:57 Tom_itx but i'm not sure the dragon will
20:58 useless2 yeas, not being able to find that $200 platform sorta hurts
20:59 useless2 i found the dragon right where i had left the dragon AND stk for years, but the stk isn't there
20:59 Tom_itx all hope is not lost on it though
20:59 Tom_itx rue may have to help you on getting that one programmed
20:59 useless2 Jungo usb driver?
20:59 Tom_itx what about it?
20:59 Tom_itx that's studio's usb driver
21:00 useless2 it's asking me if i want to install it
21:00 Tom_itx avrdude uses libusb
21:00 Tom_itx yes
21:00 Tom_itx you need it
21:00 Tom_itx for studio to be able to talk to the dragon
21:00 Tom_itx so
21:01 Tom_itx what chip do you wanna play with right now?
21:01 useless2 so much easier on the C64, just poke stuff to an address, and then sys to it, and it runs
21:01 useless2 umm, i have no chip with an adc in it, do i?
21:01 Tom_itx not that i can see
21:02 useless2 well, it's important tome i can use the at90s4414 , if we can program to it
21:02 useless2 if not, then the tiny2313
21:02 Tom_itx ok
21:03 Tom_itx can we play with the 2313 for now?
21:03 useless2 k
21:03 Tom_itx rue may have to help you with the other one
21:03 Tom_itx i'm not sure how avrdude sees the dragon as a programmer
21:03 Tom_itx i know it will work with it ok
21:03 Tom_itx and i'm also not sure what protocol the 4414 uses
21:03 Tom_itx probably ISP
21:04 Tom_itx like the rest
21:04 Tom_itx i'd ask my bud that works at atmel but he's not on here tonight
21:08 Tom_itx blinky is ready
21:08 useless2 i am not
21:09 useless2 afk a few to de-varnish the copper on some perfbd
21:13 Tom_itx np
21:16 Tom_itx default system clock is internal osc set at 1Mhz
21:16 Tom_itx with ckdiv8 set
21:17 Tom_itx that's pretty standard
21:21 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/kat/attiny2313/
21:21 Tom_itx the blink_led .c .h .hex and makefile are all you need
21:24 useless2 ok, back with a cleaned and dried perfbd big enough to put the tiny2313 on and the dip 40 too
21:25 useless2 holy cowpies, 12 files to blink an led??
21:27 Tom_itx no
21:27 Tom_itx the makefile just generates all those
21:27 Tom_itx all you really need is the blink_led.hex
21:29 useless2 what happens to the otehr files that makefiles makes?
21:30 Tom_itx the eeprom ones are if you store permanent stuff in eeprom
21:31 Tom_itx the map is a compiler map
21:31 Tom_itx the lst is a similar file that lists the compiler code
21:31 Tom_itx elf is a variation of hex
21:31 Tom_itx i generally delete most of them
21:32 Tom_itx but just copied the whole thing over on this
21:32 Tom_itx the .c is where the actual code is
21:32 Tom_itx the .h is empty but could have #define stataments etc in it
21:33 Tom_itx function declarations etc
21:33 Tom_itx the .h is empty but needs to be there or the compiler will bitch
21:34 Tom_itx when you get ready, connect an led to one of the PORTB pins
21:34 Tom_itx PB0..PB7
21:34 Tom_itx the program toggles the whole port
21:35 Tom_itx pins 12 thru 19 are portb
21:36 useless2 i don't have an avr pinout, or a connection schematic to the dragon
21:36 Tom_itx once you wire up the power pins 10-GND 20-vcc-5v you will need a 10 to 100k pullup on pin1
21:36 Tom_itx i'm telling you
21:37 Tom_itx next we'll wire the programmer
21:37 Tom_itx got a 6pin isp cable?
21:38 useless2 no
21:38 Tom_itx ok
21:38 Tom_itx i'll give you the connections
21:39 eless2 glares at the soldering iron for being slow to war
21:42 Tom_itx ISP 2313 signal
21:42 Tom_itx 1 18 miso
21:42 Tom_itx 2 20 +5v
21:42 Tom_itx 3 19 sck
21:42 Tom_itx 4 17 mosi
21:42 Tom_itx 5 1 rst
21:42 Tom_itx 6 10 gnd
21:42 Tom_itx now
21:42 Tom_itx mind you the dragon 2 and 6 are not wired to power
21:43 Tom_itx so you can wire those to the other power header on the dragon
21:43 Tom_itx like i did in the pic
21:43 useless2 pic url?
21:44 useless2 i found a dip header with ~8" of wire on it for the ISP header on the dragon
21:44 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/attiny2313/attiny7.jpg
21:45 useless2 i cannot see what you did there,, you soldered then shrinkwrapped the pins?
21:45 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/dragon/dragon3a.jpg
21:45 Tom_itx just a plug like a pc fan has
21:45 useless2 i don't need dragon3a.jpg , i have the dragon sitting hee in front o me
21:45 Tom_itx ok
21:46 eless2 looks for anotehr he
21:48 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/attiny2313/attiny9.jpg
21:48 Tom_itx there's where the power wire goes on my board
21:48 Tom_itx to the 2 pads on the right side
21:59 useless2 looks like you put +5 to pin8 ?
21:59 Tom_itx just a sec
22:00 Tom_itx not that i can see
22:01 Tom_itx 8 is PD4
22:01 Tom_itx portd pin 4
22:01 Tom_itx 20 is +5 on the avr
22:01 Tom_itx and 10 is gnd
22:01 Tom_itx don't follow the picture
22:02 Tom_itx i did some of that wrong and had to fix it later
22:02 useless2 i cannot follow http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/attiny2313/attiny9.jpg
22:02 Tom_itx i gave you the pinout above
22:02 Tom_itx for the isp
22:02 Tom_itx to the dragon
22:04 Tom_itx Dragon tiny
22:04 Tom_itx ISP 2313 signal
22:04 Tom_itx 1 18 miso
22:04 Tom_itx 2 20 +5v
22:04 Tom_itx 3 19 sck
22:04 Tom_itx 4 17 mosi
22:04 Tom_itx 5 1 rst
22:04 Tom_itx 6 10 gnd
22:05 Tom_itx and put a 10k resistor on pin1 to pin 20 for a reset pullup
22:05 Tom_itx or something close to that
22:05 Tom_itx within a few tens of k
22:11 rue_house heh
22:12 rue_house kat, still here?
22:12 Tom_itx she's busy
22:12 useless2 si`
22:12 Tom_itx wiring a 2313
22:12 rue_house 2313, ok
22:12 Tom_itx i uploaded a blinky for her
22:12 Tom_itx and she got studio installed
22:12 Tom_itx i think
22:13 rue_house kat, ah, your doing up the interlink map above?
22:13 Tom_itx yup
22:13 Tom_itx i think
22:13 rue_house studio!? I was gonna just start with avrdude
22:13 rue_house ok
22:13 Tom_itx it will be easier for now
22:13 Tom_itx you can pollute her later
22:14 rue_house I was just gonna stick to the bare bones for the first test
22:15 rue_house does the 2313 have built in default clock?
22:15 rue_house I dont think the 4414 does, I think you have to use a crystal on it
22:18 Tom_itx 2313 is 1Mhz default
22:18 rue_house cool
22:18 Tom_itx has ckdiv8 set
22:19 Tom_itx i don't know about the other one
22:19 Tom_itx so you can help her with it
22:19 Tom_itx btw, avrdude supports it and the dragon
22:19 Tom_itx studio doesn't that i can see
22:19 rue_house I dont want to jump in now and confuse anyhing
22:19 Tom_itx well i'm not gonna be up much longer
22:19 rue_house did you have a chance to see if studio can see the programmer?
22:20 Tom_itx no
22:20 Tom_itx kat?
22:20 Tom_itx hook up the dragon to a port and let's see
22:20 useless2 still wiring
22:20 Tom_itx can we try that? i may head to bed soon
22:20 Tom_itx and i don't think rue does studio
22:21 Tom_itx i will show you where to load the program from studio then you can continue wiring
22:21 Tom_itx if you wish
22:23 useless2 winxp says found hardware and wants to find an app for it
22:23 rue_house iirc the drivers are in one of the studios dirs
22:23 rue_house Tom_itx, ?
22:23 Tom_itx yes
22:25 useless2 stalling while installing driver
22:25 Tom_itx look in program files/atmel/avr tools/
22:25 Tom_itx for the driver
22:25 Tom_itx or maybe one deeper...
22:25 useless2 i don't have a program files/atmel/
22:25 rue_house dont look at me, I'm using linux :)
22:26 Tom_itx did you install studio?
22:26 useless2 done
22:26 useless2 yeas
22:26 Tom_itx where did you install it?
22:26 useless2 c:\avr\
22:26 Tom_itx ok
22:26 Tom_itx well look there then
22:26 Tom_itx :)
22:26 useless2 why?
22:26 Tom_itx for the usb driver
22:26 Tom_itx or are you all ready?
22:26 useless2 [22:13] <useless2> done
22:26 Tom_itx good
22:26 Tom_itx open studio
22:26 Tom_itx and plug in the dragon to the usb
22:27 Tom_itx it may want to do a firmware update on it
22:27 rue_house I think its already plugged in
22:27 Tom_itx i'd let it
22:27 Tom_itx tell me when studio is open
22:27 useless2 open
22:27 Tom_itx click on the little bug icon on the left center
22:27 Tom_itx brb
22:28 useless2 isnt one
22:28 rue_house kat, its nice to not have to connect up ram and rom and io chips :)
22:29 useless2 and, it loaded stk500 even tho i have no stk500
22:29 rue_house there should be something that looks like a ladybug on an icon in that program
22:29 rue_house tom can help you adjust it
22:29 Tom_itx ok
22:29 rue_house I think the stk500 is its default
22:30 Tom_itx from the 'tools' menu scroll down to 'Program AVR'
22:30 Tom_itx and 'connect'
22:30 Tom_itx then pick the dragon from the menu on the left
22:31 Tom_itx yeah that icon is in the 'stk500' toolbar
22:31 Tom_itx it may not be selected by default
22:32 Tom_itx 'view' 'toolbars' to turn that one on
22:32 Tom_itx i got them all on in mine
22:32 useless2 designerthinking.com/STUDIO.GIF
22:32 useless2 updating firmware
22:32 rue_house http://designerthinking.com/STUDIO.GIF
22:32 Tom_itx the little black bug on the 2nd row
22:32 Tom_itx the one on the left
22:32 Tom_itx is it
22:33 Tom_itx 'con'
22:33 Tom_itx or 'connect'
22:33 rue_house the chip?
22:33 useless2 i dont see it
22:33 Tom_itx yes
22:33 Tom_itx sry, 3rd row
22:33 useless2 oh, chip
22:33 Tom_itx icon
22:33 rue_house the 8 pin dip icon kat
22:33 rue_house yea
22:33 e_house looks at tom 'b
22:33 Tom_itx then pick dragon from the list
22:33 useless2 studio shut down after the dragon update
22:33 Tom_itx mine did too
22:33 Tom_itx i dunno why
22:34 Tom_itx start it up again
22:34 Tom_itx and get to the dragon again
22:34 useless2 restarertered,, i am typing by leaning over all the stuff i soppted to do this
22:34 useless2 it should NOT be loading the stk500 lugin
22:34 Tom_itx been there
22:35 Tom_itx it may try if it was the default programmer set on startup
22:35 useless2 avrdraoninjtagmodewithnodeviceselected
22:35 Tom_itx ok
22:35 Tom_itx change jtag to isp
22:36 Tom_itx and select attiny2313 from the list
22:36 useless2 Getting ISP frequency parameters.. FAILED!
22:36 Tom_itx that's ok
22:36 Tom_itx no chip hooked up right now
22:36 Tom_itx now click the 'program' tab
22:36 useless2 k
22:37 Tom_itx check the 'erase device before flash programming
22:37 useless2 it is checked
22:37 Tom_itx and in the 'flash' box is where you load your hex file
22:37 Tom_itx ignore the other 2 boxes for now
22:37 useless2 k
22:37 Tom_itx then to program it, push the 'program' button just below it
22:37 rue_house the erase device before flash is normal
22:37 Tom_itx etc
22:37 Tom_itx yep
22:38 Tom_itx if you don't have that checked though, it won't
22:38 useless2 next
22:38 Tom_itx finsh wiring the chip
22:38 Tom_itx then hook an led up to one of the portb pins
22:38 rue_house like PB0
22:38 Tom_itx rue can help you do that, i need to go to sleep very soon
22:38 rue_house cmos, you can source or sink to those pins
22:39 Tom_itx rue, the program is: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/kat/attiny2313/
22:39 useless2 do i have the compiler, and how/where to write code?
22:39 rue_house ok
22:40 Tom_itx kat, all you need is the hex file for now
22:40 Tom_itx if i screwed it up, rue can fix you another one
22:40 Tom_itx i need to sleep now
22:40 useless2 i am never going to write a program?
22:40 Tom_itx yes
22:40 rue_house http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/kat/attiny2313/blink_led.hex
22:40 rue_house that one
22:40 Tom_itx do you want to right now?
22:40 rue_house the other one is empty
22:40 useless2 no
22:40 eless2 unplugs the dr
22:41 rue_house kat, its suggested to take and apply the precompiled one to see that your hardware is good, then to go al thru making a program up
22:41 useless2 i understand
22:41 rue_house tom meant: do you want to write a program right now
22:41 rue_house he did not mean: do you want to program a chip right now
22:41 Tom_itx yeah
22:41 Tom_itx sry for confizzlement
22:41 rue_house he assumes you want to program a chip as part of this process tonight
22:42 Tom_itx i think she needs to finish wiring right now
22:42 rue_house kat, do you want to program up that chip to flash an led tonight?
22:42 Tom_itx but i can't wait up tonight
22:42 rue_house ah
22:42 rue_house I dont know where the wiring is at
22:42 Tom_itx you have the tools you need to finish it now
22:42 Tom_itx i gave her all the pinout in the logs here
22:42 Tom_itx 10 gnd 20 +5
22:42 rue_house yup
22:42 Tom_itx the rest is isp
22:43 Tom_itx and led is on a portb pin
22:43 Tom_itx any
22:44 Tom_itx PB0 is pin 12
22:44 Tom_itx PB7 is 19
22:44 rue_house kat, the first avr I programmed up sent my mind racing for 2 weeks on all the wonderfull new things I could do
22:44 Tom_itx all the rest are inbetween
22:44 Tom_itx rue
22:44 Tom_itx stay off the isp ones
22:44 Tom_itx pb7 6 5
22:44 Tom_itx use the lower ones for now
22:45 Tom_itx put the led on pb0
22:45 Tom_itx that would be good
22:45 Tom_itx pin 12
22:46 Tom_itx rue:
22:46 Tom_itx Dragon tiny
22:46 Tom_itx ISP 2313 signal
22:46 Tom_itx 1 18 miso
22:46 Tom_itx 2 20 +5v
22:46 Tom_itx 3 19 sck
22:46 Tom_itx 4 17 mosi
22:46 Tom_itx 5 1 rst
22:46 Tom_itx 6 10 gnd
22:46 Tom_itx is what i gave her
22:46 rue_house I saw
22:46 rue_house I'm gonna try to stay up another hour or so
22:46 Tom_itx and pull power off the separate power header on the dragon
22:46 Tom_itx i'm not
22:46 Tom_itx gnite
22:46 rue_house gngh
22:46 rue_house t
22:46 rue_house i]
22:47 useless2 if only i knew what pins on the dragon are miso, sck, mosi, and rst
22:47 rue_house 1-6
22:47 useless2 thanks, Tom
22:47 rue_house first column
22:48 useless2 rue, what?
22:48 rue_house pin 1 on the ribbon cable is miso
22:48 rue_house connect ribbon 1 to tiny 18...
22:48 Tom_itx it's all there ^^
22:49 rue_house Tom_itx, do those pin numbers zigzag as per std ribbon connector?
22:49 useless2 ah
22:49 useless2 font messed me up
22:49 Tom_itx rue_house, no that was the fuckup from that one pdf
22:49 rue_house 1 3 5
22:49 rue_house 2
22:49 rue_house 4
22:49 rue_house er
22:49 rue_house 1 3 5
22:49 rue_house 2 4 6
22:49 Tom_itx yes
22:49 rue_house ?
22:49 Tom_itx 1 2
22:49 Tom_itx 3 4
22:49 Tom_itx 5 6
22:49 Tom_itx etc
22:49 Tom_itx maybe backward i dunno
22:50 Tom_itx even odd
22:50 Tom_itx or odd even
22:50 rue_house and the arrow on the connector points to the real pin 1
22:50 Tom_itx i can't remember
22:50 rue_house kat, that make sense?
22:50 Tom_itx the board should indicate pin 1
22:50 Tom_itx that row is odd
22:51 useless2 if ISP supplies gnd and +5, why did i wire up a separate onnector?
22:51 rue_house :) dunno
22:51 Tom_itx it doesn't
22:52 Tom_itx not on the dragon
22:52 rue_house ?
22:52 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/6pin_isp.jpg
22:52 rue_house the dragon dosn't push thru the 5V?
22:52 Tom_itx no power is on the ISP connector on the dragon
22:52 useless2 o
22:52 Tom_itx you get it from the other header on the dragon
22:52 rue_house do you have to feed power INTO the 5V pin or is it just not connected?
22:52 Tom_itx the one marked PWR in my picture
22:52 Tom_itx you can
22:52 Tom_itx i did
22:53 Tom_itx not sure you have to
22:53 rue_house its nice to have it all on the one connector
22:53 rue_house however
22:53 Tom_itx rue: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/dragon/dragon3a.jpg
22:53 rue_house oh my
22:54 Tom_itx they just don't connect the 5v to the isp header. probably because not all targets are 5v
22:54 rue_house the dragon has holes for a zif?
22:54 Tom_itx yes
22:54 Tom_itx and for HVPP
22:55 rue_house do you ahve to patch it in yourself or something?
22:55 Tom_itx yes
22:55 Tom_itx i did one once
22:55 rue_house ickgh
22:55 Tom_itx exactly
22:55 Tom_itx now
22:55 Tom_itx gnite
22:55 rue_house gngiht ;)
22:56 rue_house dragon must be worth a fortune
22:56 rue_house so many parts...
22:57 rue_house I wonder why he left it in the box...
22:57 useless2 static
22:57 rue_house ah
22:58 rue_house kat hows the wiring progressing?
22:59 useless2 i'll stop and take a pic
23:00 rue_house oh dont let me slow you down
23:03 useless2 DSCF3137.jpg
23:05 rue_house http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/kat/attiny2313/DSCF3137.jpg
23:05 rue_house no..
23:05 rue_house http://designerthinking.com/DSCF3137.jpg
23:06 rue_house cool
23:07 rue_house where did the middle of the two sockets go?
23:08 rue_house I should make a board like that
23:08 rue_house use the zif sockets I am saving up for when I die
23:20 Tom_itx that's kinda nice kat
23:20 Tom_itx now i sleep
23:24 useless2 ok, wiring the sockets to the cables to the dragone : completed
23:25 useless2 rue, i cut the dip20 and dip8 out of a dip40
23:30 rue_house ah!
23:30 useless2 http://designerthinking.com/DSCF3139.jpg
23:31 useless2 crap
23:31 useless2 yeas, that's right
23:31 useless2 now what?
23:33 rue_house crap?
23:33 rue_house tiny2313 right?
23:33 eless2 nods, in the dip20 so
23:34 rue_house ok have an led and resistor to add to that
23:34 rue_house pin...
23:34 useless2 i put the dip8 on for the tiny85, and the dip40 for the at90s4414
23:35 rue_house yup
23:35 rue_house shall we put an led on port B0, which is pin 12
23:35 rue_house of the 2313
23:36 rue_house (dip20)
23:36 rue_house ^^ that note is for me ;)
23:36 rue_house if you go anode side pin 12, and cathode to ground via 1k?
23:36 eless2 looks for a 470 ohm resi
23:36 useless2 or a 1k even
23:37 rue_house I got in the habit of using 1k for almost everything, its a bit dim for some leds
23:38 rue_house esp with some ttl current sinking capabilies...
23:39 useless2 use buss drivers to pull up , but most anythng will sink 10ma or more
23:42 eless2 connects anvil to
23:54 rue_house were gonna just cut in under my bedtime wire?
23:54 rue_house :)
23:54 useless2 i am ready to connect to the dragon
23:55 useless2 hello
23:55 tobbor useless2! like, totally tell us about the project!
23:56 rue_house ok!
23:56 rue_house plug in tiny2313
23:56 rue_house for that matter, plug everything in
23:56 rue_house :0
23:56 rue_house :)
23:56 rue_house stupid shift...
23:57 useless2 plugged in
23:57 rue_house did you download the .hex file?
23:57 rue_house not he eeprom one, the other
23:57 useless2 yeas
23:57 rue_house ok
23:57 rue_house now we have to work out how to upload it :)
23:57 rue_house oh, try that connect thing in studio and see if it complains
23:59 useless2 umm,,how?
23:59 rue_house I'm googling :)
23:59 rue_house click the chip with the con label on it