#garfield Logs

Jan 21 2013

00:03 shuggans +-5%?
00:03 rue_house yes
00:04 shuggans yellow purple green gold -
00:04 shuggans 470000?
00:04 shuggans +-5%?
00:05 rue_house 4700000 ohms
00:05 rue_house 4.7M
00:05 TELunus How many of the ones in the first picture are finished?
00:05 rue_house look at it this way, green is 5, so put 5 zeros on the end
00:05 shuggans im totally salvaging THAT one...
00:05 shuggans :P
00:06 rue_house TELunus, which first picture?
00:06 TELunus http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/buddy_II/p1040830.jpg
00:06 TELunus http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/buddy_II/p1040830.jpg
00:06 rue_house how many of which ones?
00:07 rue_house the wires?
00:07 TELunus hmm, that's the wrong one.
00:08 TELunus Oh, I think I actually meant this one, which you didn't actually send.
00:12 TELunus http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/robot_family1.jpg
00:12 rue_house heh
00:13 rue_house I think the dog is finished
00:13 rue_house no work on that for ages
00:13 Lola8088 Hi!
00:13 rue_house no work on smoking progress in ages
00:13 rue_house hi
00:13 tobbor Hello rue_house
00:13 rue_house ....
00:13 rue_house buddy I is technically finished
00:13 shuggans grats :)
00:13 rue_house last night looked like some peices are already missing
00:14 rue_house the mowerbot has been finished for ages, its in a regular modification cycle
00:14 rue_house yup
00:15 rue_house Lola8088, we missed clocking today
00:15 shuggans just found a huuuge 470000ohm +-5% resistor
00:15 rue_house oh dear its bedtime for me too
00:15 rue_house shuggans, odd
00:16 rue_house shuggans, if the body is blue, its a capacitor
00:16 shuggans nope
00:16 shuggans grey
00:16 shuggans yellow purple orange gold
00:18 shuggans bout an inch x 1/4 inch
00:25 rue_house shuggans, so whats the resistance?
00:25 rue_house hint: its between 10k and 99k
00:26 shuggans 47k?
00:27 rue_house yes
00:29 shuggans y so huge?
00:29 rue_house is the 5232 you found a diode?
00:29 rue_house shuggans, whats the power dissipation at 250V
00:31 shuggans 11750000
00:31 rue_house er no
00:31 shuggans O_o
00:31 rue_house remember how to do it?
00:31 shuggans devide then?
00:31 shuggans by resistance
00:31 rue_house I = V / R
00:31 rue_house P = I * V
00:32 shuggans no clue. 5.39amps?
00:32 rue_house 250/47000
00:32 shuggans .005319
00:32 rue_house right
00:33 rue_house now I * V is the power
00:34 rue_house well?
00:34 shuggans 1.32watts
00:34 rue_house so its prolly a 2 or 5W resistor
00:34 rue_house kat, can you tell resistor power by looking at them?
00:34 rue_house I cant yet really
00:35 shuggans ok. so I pulled something else off this - carli mpx gmf 05g
00:35 rue_house :) what shape is it
00:35 shuggans a box
00:35 shuggans skinny yellow box
00:35 rue_house yellow or blue?
00:35 shuggans .1k275v~X2
00:35 shuggans yellow
00:36 shuggans 2 post
00:36 rue_house .1k its a .1uF 275V capacitor
00:36 shuggans whats uF?
00:36 rue_house the k is a rating of temp or somehting
00:36 rue_house microfarads
00:36 rue_house see the cylinder caps? say 560uF at 300V etc?
00:37 rue_house that one is 0.1uF
00:38 shuggans another white box 2 post 275vac
00:38 shuggans why are these boxes?
00:38 rue_house break one apart
00:38 shuggans why not use cylinder caps?
00:39 shuggans nothign to smash with
00:39 rue_house they are whats called non-polar
00:39 rue_house they dont have a + and -
00:39 rue_house they are for AC
00:39 shuggans they are AC?
00:39 shuggans I see
00:39 rue_house have pliers?
00:39 shuggans not with me
00:40 shuggans so useless for what I'm doing?
00:40 rue_house not helpfull for this project no
00:40 shuggans Question:
00:40 rue_house c!
00:40 shuggans In thisrobot - im going to have a MicroATX pc\
00:40 rue_house the answers always c!
00:41 shuggans Isnt it pretty dumb to use a an ac converter to plug in the PSU
00:41 e_house blacks-in all the c circles and hands the sheet in q
00:41 shuggans Or can I power it directly from the battery?
00:41 rue_house shuggans, is the adapter 12Vdc out?
00:42 shuggans dont have it yet
00:42 shuggans I have a PC power supply for it
00:42 rue_house use an inverter if it makes you feel safer
00:42 rue_house if the adapter is 12VDC out, the battery will work ok
00:42 shuggans dont they just convert AC to DC?
00:43 shuggans yes - it will be a car adapter. is the plan so far
00:43 rue_house at maybe 10 or 20% efficiency loss
00:43 shuggans So heres my last question of the night
00:43 rue_house but you dont want to blow up your computer, and the adapter will be safer that way
00:43 shuggans How do I figure out what wire gauges to use?
00:44 rue_house hmm, we dont have a chart
00:44 rue_house 15A use 14 guage
00:44 rue_house 20A use 12 guage
00:44 rue_house 30A use 10 guage
00:44 shuggans holy crap
00:44 shuggans will the 40A melt my solder?
00:44 rue_house 40A use 8 guage
00:45 rue_house solder?
00:45 shuggans when I build these driver boards
00:45 rue_house you cn put crimp on wires right to those relays
00:45 rue_house prolly like the ones you took off
00:45 shuggans yes. And then to the mosfets...
00:46 rue_house well, you have to be carefull how you design the circuit to handle the pwoer yes
00:46 rue_house start with the relay control
00:46 rue_house get it going, play with it, then improve it
00:48 shuggans the mosfet legs are WAY thinner than 8G
00:48 shuggans wire
00:48 rue_house :) so you understand the limitation
00:48 shuggans So when I gang them together..
00:48 rue_house now, that table, keeps the wire really cool
00:49 rue_house remember we said 20A or so per mosfet?
00:49 shuggans do i go from gate to drain ?
00:49 rue_house the wires from them will warm up a bit, but they wont melt
00:49 rue_house shuggans, with?
00:49 shuggans the mosfets
00:49 rue_house you wire them in parallel
00:49 shuggans how do I physically gang them together?
00:50 rue_house all the gates togethor
00:50 shuggans or do I split the wire to them
00:50 shuggans ?
00:50 rue_house all the drains togethor
00:50 rue_house all the sources togethor
00:51 rue_house and I'd say keep it to 20A per fet
00:51 rue_house me and kat will, at some point work out the melting current of them
00:51 eless looks in thru a wi
00:52 e_house invites kat in and offers her a
00:52 rue_house shuggans, USUALLY the middle pin of the fet is connected to the tab
00:52 shuggans http://www.visuafusion.com/robotics/IMAG0019.jpg
00:53 shuggans concept right?
00:53 rue_house GDS aren't marked :)
00:53 shuggans goign for CONCEPT not accuracy :P
00:53 rue_house yes
00:53 shuggans so side by side
00:53 rue_house use the power of the schematic!
00:53 shuggans not daisy chained
00:53 rue_house correct
00:53 rue_house its called paralle
00:53 rue_house l
00:54 shuggans learning the electronics lingo
00:54 shuggans although alot of it applies to PC hardware as well
00:54 shuggans :P
00:54 eless climbs into the
00:54 shuggans Do I need to use CAPS anywhere in this design?
00:55 useless lowercase is usually fine
00:55 rue_house power supply stuff maybe
00:56 shuggans xD
00:56 shuggans Hello btw :P
00:57 rue_house shuggans, draw for me how you use the fets to operat the relays (or did you already)?
00:57 shuggans I did
00:57 shuggans let me find it...
00:57 rue_house oh
00:57 rue_house wonder if it was right
00:57 shuggans http://www.visuafusion.com/robotics/IMAG0017.jpg
00:57 rue_house ok, diodes need work...
00:58 shuggans except diodes fliped arround
00:58 rue_house and mark the GDS of the fets
00:58 shuggans kk
00:58 shuggans let me do it
00:59 rue_house :) I'm just raking you over the coals to try to get you into some standards that everyone else can follow
01:01 rue_house think I'm 80% of my way to sleep
01:01 eless would use transistors so she wouldn't need 8v on the bases,, err, g
01:01 rue_house is ok, he's 12V available anyhow
01:01 rue_house but he using logic fets
01:01 rue_house and 5V microcontroller
01:01 useless k
01:01 rue_house and 175A fets on 160mA relay coils :)
01:02 shuggans http://www.visuafusion.com/robotics/IMAG0021.jpg
01:02 rue_house shuggans, if I said you forgot two resistors where would yo uput them
01:02 shuggans source to gate\
01:02 useless hint : not the attic
01:02 rue_house :)
01:03 useless what are those boxes with 86 and 85 on them?
01:03 rue_house shuggans, technically the transistors you drew are "bipolar", the fets use those square line
01:03 rue_house kat, relays
01:03 rue_house the bridge itself is relay
01:04 rue_house we will modify later with a pwm low side driver, leave the revsrsing to the relays
01:04 shuggans http://www.visuafusion.com/robotics/IMAG0022.jpg
01:04 rue_house :) dont overlap your parts eh?
01:04 shuggans :P
01:05 shuggans otherwise, correct?
01:05 shuggans meh
01:05 shuggans ill redraw.
01:06 useless shuggans, have you ever seena professionally drawn schematic?
01:06 useless or evena properly drawn one?
01:07 rue_house what do you think, I'v been teaching him :)
01:07 rue_house ;)
01:07 rue_house hasn't seen a damn proper thing yet
01:07 useless https://www.google.com/search?q=schematic&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=cdC&tbo=u&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Keb8UIScCZOC9gSbzIDADQ&ved=0CEYQsAQ&biw=1004&bih=392
01:08 shuggans http://www.visuafusion.com/robotics/fet.png
01:08 shuggans so the gate is the middle one?
01:09 shuggans the source the bottom one?
01:09 shuggans the drain the top one?
01:09 rue_house !assist images/IMAG0022.jpg
01:09 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images/IMAG0022.jpg
01:09 rue_house I upgraded your image to just 'bad'
01:09 rue_house :)
01:10 rue_house up -> positive
01:10 rue_house down -> negitive
01:10 rue_house in -> left
01:10 rue_house out -> right
01:10 rue_house (kat feedback, all over the place)
01:11 shuggans and p channel is opposite?
01:11 rue_house the arrow on a P channel goes out not in
01:11 shuggans source always towards the batteryright?
01:11 shuggans basically?
01:11 rue_house yes
01:11 rue_house on a N channel, source to -, on a P channel, source to +
01:11 shuggans makes sense now
01:12 rue_house shuggans,
01:12 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/schematic.jpg
01:13 rue_house shuggans, http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/ledtut/ledtut.html
01:13 rue_house haha its not finsihed, ugh
01:14 useless drat, i have no 74F06 or 07
01:14 rue_house F
01:14 rue_house I dont think even I do
01:15 rue_house shuggans, seen those?
01:15 rue_house I have another one
01:15 shuggans yes
01:15 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/breadtut/main.html
01:15 rue_house the beginning of it anyhow
01:19 rue_house Tom_itx,
01:20 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/flash_howto/flash_howto.htm you remember that?
01:21 shuggans yes\
01:21 shuggans yes\no
01:21 rue_house :)
01:21 rue_house shuggans, tell me about what you have and havn't learned
01:21 shuggans lol read the url and responded :P
01:21 shuggans http://www.visuafusion.com/robotics/IMAG0023.jpg
01:23 shuggans http://www.visuafusion.com/robotics/IMAG0024.jpg ****
01:23 rue_bed you only need 1 fet to operate the realay coils
01:24 shuggans Ahhhdamnit
01:24 shuggans that's right
01:24 rue_bed the coils operate at 0.160A your fets can take 175
01:24 shuggans bc w'ere not passing high amps through coils, only the other side of the relay
01:24 shuggans >_<
01:24 rue_bed that is how you hook them up for the motor yes
01:24 rue_bed with a few exceptions
01:24 shuggans ok :P
01:25 shuggans likee what exceptions?
01:25 rue_bed a) you only need one resistor, cause its between the gate and source of them all
01:25 shuggans Do I need fets on the motor circuit in this design?
01:25 rue_bed b) you only need 1 bank of fets for each motor, you put them between the combined - of the relays motor circuit and the batery -
01:25 useless as he is operating relays, it's a cinch the circuit can be slow, so why not put a small cap off the gates to slow them down and reduce the inductive kick of the coils?
01:26 rue_bed for stage 1 here, we dont need ganged fets
01:26 rue_bed we add that in for speed control later
01:26 useless speed control?
01:26 rue_bed we can gang up some of his high capacity fets later for pwm motor speed control
01:26 useless i mean like slow down the fets to 250 ms or so
01:27 rue_bed step one is getting operating with relays
01:27 rue_bed yes I understand ya
01:27 rue_bed the relays have built in diodes
01:27 rue_bed and they are 175A fets...
01:27 shuggans 75A **
01:27 rue_bed its a good idea
01:27 rue_bed oh
01:28 rue_bed but no worries
01:28 rue_bed shuggans, remember why we put in those diodes
01:28 shuggans still way over :P
01:29 rue_bed well kat is pointing out a way to slow the on/off transition so that the spike is never generated in the first palce
01:29 shuggans To give the backflow a way to backflwo without flowing through the relay
01:29 useless the generic diode can take 3ms to turn on, so again i suggest a cap to slow the fets down
01:29 useless if the relay s generating "backflow" , then it ISflowing thru the relay
01:29 rue_bed the fets are driven right off the microcontroller, its maybe a 10mA driver
01:30 rue_bed I think he should have a series resistor on the gate too
01:30 useless but you don't CARE about the relay
01:30 shuggans I do too! Poor little guys...
01:30 shuggans :P
01:30 useless if the fet turns of fast enough, the magnetic field in the relay collapses reallt fast, and generates a voltage in the relay coil, which can be high enough to blow the fet
01:31 rue_bed which the diode is suppsed to catch
01:31 shuggans so you're suggesting a capacitor between fet and relay?
01:31 shuggans or diode and fet?
01:31 rue_bed the fets might be .01uF, a 10mA microcontroller cant siwtch that verry fast
01:32 rue_bed shuggans, across the resistor
01:32 useless gate to ground
01:32 shuggans just a 5v cap?
01:32 rue_bed atleast 10V
01:32 useless 5v? are you nuts?
01:32 rue_bed ;)
01:32 eless looks t
01:32 rue_bed its a logic level fet
01:33 rue_bed driving a 160mA relay coil
01:33 shuggans http://www.ebay.com/itm/110635862022?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
01:33 useless http://www.ebay.com/itm/110635862022
01:33 useless all that after the ? is useless
01:33 shuggans http://www.texasindustrialelectric.com/relays_0332209137.asp
01:34 useless $1 each plus $5 s&h ?? ouch!
01:34 shuggans no worries :P
01:35 useless http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=tip126
01:35 rue_bed but he found logic level :)
01:35 shuggans rue: the motor circuit is where we will have the fets for pwm correct?
01:36 useless http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=tip102
01:36 shuggans I want to build the boards with space wherever
01:36 rue_bed kat, he selected the fets for directly driving the motors
01:36 rue_bed I suggested the relays
01:36 rue_bed sure
01:36 rue_bed 3 fets per motor? 60A? sounds ok
01:37 shuggans we can even go 4 fets
01:37 shuggans but thewse relays are onyly 50A
01:37 shuggans so pointless...
01:37 rue_bed you dont want to go too crazy, the fets get harder to turn on and off quickly
01:38 useless if that,, you'll burn up the relay if you figure they are good for the 100% duty cycle amperage of the contacts
01:38 rue_bed and the motor dosn't have the protection diodes in it
01:38 rue_bed they say 4000 cycles at 38A or something like that
01:39 rue_bed iirc those automotive ones are beefy
01:39 rue_bed what are you using on the winch?
01:39 useless small starter relays
01:39 rue_bed whats it draw?
01:39 useless 20a to 200a
01:39 e_bed cri
01:40 useless 100's volts of kickback
01:42 rue_bed shuggans,
01:42 shuggans si?
01:42 rue_bed remember the transistor power dissipation stuff we did?
01:42 shuggans yes
01:43 rue_bed the slower a transistor goes from on to off, the more power it throws doing it
01:43 rue_bed make sense?
01:43 shuggans yes
01:43 rue_bed ___/-----
01:43 rue_bed cause it has to go thru that 50% part where its throwing a bunch of power out as heat
01:44 shuggans i see
01:44 rue_bed pwm switches the fets on and off really fast
01:44 shuggans Im planning on mounting 120mm fans above each board
01:44 rue_bed well, I mean repeatedly
01:44 rue_bed ok
01:45 shuggans and mounting the fets to heatsinks
01:45 rue_bed if the fets are being switched 300 times/second, and take more than a few nanoseconds to go between on and off
01:45 rue_bed the fets start to get hot
01:45 rue_bed from all the heat during switching
01:45 useless if the fets squtch fat enuf, you domtmead hutsunks
01:45 eless looks t
01:46 shuggans just to be safe though? I want these things to be as robust as possible
01:46 rue_bed the fets have (effective) a capacitor between the gate and source
01:46 rue_bed to turn them on and off you have to charge and short out that capacitor
01:46 rue_bed which takes some power
01:47 rue_bed the more gates you gang up, the more power it takes
01:47 rue_bed I'm gonna fall asleep soon
01:48 shuggans so for 2 logic level gaes, 10v cap?
01:48 rue_bed shuggans, if yo have 3 fets, its important that you switch them fast, and have a diode across the motor circuit
01:49 rue_bed you can yes
01:50 eless calculates if althe pnp inputs on these Fttl chips is pulled low, the *SIGNAL* lines will be passing (totally) over 6
01:51 shuggans http://www.visuafusion.com/robotics/IMAG0025.jpg <- this right?
01:51 useless the memory chips will pull 65a @ 5v
01:53 eless thinks it may be a design flaw to switch 6 amps with 7
01:55 useless gnites
01:55 shuggans night
01:57 shuggans rue : http://www.visuafusion.com/robotics/IMAG0025.jpg <- this right?
01:58 rue_bed yup
01:58 rue_bed maybe 1uF or so
01:58 shuggans this: --)|--- <-flat part is positive?
02:03 rue_bed hmm
02:03 rue_bed I think I do flat as negitive
02:03 rue_bed or do I
02:03 rue_bed my hand knows, but its not holding a pen
02:04 rue_bed yea sure I do flat as -
02:04 rue_bed dosn't mean I'm right
02:05 shuggans http://library.thinkquest.org/10784/circuit_symbols.html
02:05 rue_bed ----o~o----- fuse....
02:05 rue_bed hehe
02:07 rue_bed http://colab.lmc.gatech.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Screen-Shot-2012-04-06-at-9.54.03-AM.png
02:07 rue_bed http://computersnmore.dyndns.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/AnologCircuits.jpg
02:14 shuggans Ok
02:14 shuggans ready to look?
02:14 shuggans rue : http://www.visuafusion.com/robotics/IMAG0026.jpg
02:14 shuggans rue : http://www.visuafusion.com/robotics/IMAG0027.jpg
02:14 shuggans rue : http://www.visuafusion.com/robotics/IMAG0028.jpg
02:19 rue_bed 3 is wrong ( the last one)
02:19 shuggans how so?
02:20 rue_bed the transistors go between the combined - of the relays, and the batery -
02:20 rue_bed no transistors between the motor and the relays
02:20 shuggans ahh bc it can be positive
02:20 shuggans got it
02:20 rue_bed your drawing its looking way awesome tho
02:21 shuggans let me redraw
02:21 rue_bed you want the source on battery -
02:21 shuggans crazy how being show / lookign up symbols will do that :P
02:21 rue_bed then 2 wires off the drain to the two relays
02:22 rue_bed because all the gates and sources are connected togethor, yo only need 1 resistor and 1 capacitor
02:22 rue_bed dont have to do for each
02:23 rue_bed you also dont want to put caps on transistors switching the motor, not for doing speed control anyhow
02:26 shuggans only the coil?
02:26 shuggans so no cps in motor driver circuit, jsut coil circuit?
02:27 rue_bed y
02:29 shuggans So I only need 3 mosfets total for motor driver circuit?
02:30 shuggans not a bank for each -?
02:37 shuggans rue : http://www.visuafusion.com/robotics/IMAG0029.jpg
02:45 shuggans rue : http://www.visuafusion.com/robotics/IMAG0030.jpg **** cleaner
03:00 shuggans rue : http://www.visuafusion.com/robotics/IMAG0036.jpg
03:00 shuggans rue : http://www.visuafusion.com/robotics/IMAG0035.jpg
03:00 shuggans rue : http://www.visuafusion.com/robotics/IMAG0034.jpg
03:01 shuggans take a look at those + let me know :)
03:01 shuggans night!
09:00 rue_house he alsmost has it
17:55 TELunus|2 Got the network sharing working.
18:03 eless got tricky and drew in a 74ABT245 with the A inputs all grounded and the T/R input used as the active-high OE input, so the chip acts like a 8-output 3ns invertor with 64/32ma drive capacity per ou
18:04 eless then drew in in 0.7v below gnd, so it can be open collector pull-down, so it can be wire-OR'd with more c
18:05 useless so the line has 1ma pullup and 32ma pull down for those pesky PNP inputs on the Fttl chips
19:50 useless 16 AND gates per character, each pulling 0.6 ma, times 128 characters = 2048 enable inputs, and 1.228 AMPs ,,,, and each AND gate has 2 otehr inputs, if all are low, that's 3.686 AMPs to ttl inputs
19:52 useless if i use smd chips and allow 1/4 inch spaceing tween pcbs, the stack of comparators will be 32 inches tall
20:26 eless cu
20:27 useless i deburred some bad holes (the bits got dull), and like the effect so much, i haveto disassemble the rack side i already made, so it will fit in the drill press
20:59 useless 20" deep rack looks large, but the battery packs are 18" deep, the TM506's are 19" deep
22:22 eless has a real pretty 1/2 of a 19" rack
23:04 rue_house :)
23:40 useless other half welded now
23:40 rue_house did 1/4" holes work out?
23:40 eless luvs the smell of hot steel, it's like baking cookies smell, only diffe
23:41 useless i did 7/32 , a compromise
23:41 rue_house cool
23:41 useless 8/32 = 1/4
23:42 rue_house exact match
23:42 useless what is?
23:42 rue_house know where I can get some? are they cheaper?
23:42 rue_house 8/32
23:42 useless 8/32 = 1/4, i drilled 7/32
23:43 rue_house 8/32 might be cheaper than 1/4 tho
23:43 useless i went thru 4 bits last nite, and didn't get one 30" rail drilled, i got a couple more bits from Fastenal today, which did the remaining 3 rails and finished the one i started last nite
23:43 rue_house flooded drilling?
23:44 useless no, plain drill press, no oil catch pan
23:45 useless just looking at the receipt, this says he sold me 15/64 , not 7/32
23:45 e_house rumidges thru kats oven d
23:45 rue_house sure I saw one in here
23:46 rue_house about 12' wide and 18" long?
23:46 rue_house non-stick coating...
23:46 rue_house hmm
23:46 useless he wrote it up wrong, the bit says 7/32
23:46 rue_house is it really a 14/64 bit?
23:47 useless i am not sure oil would help, i think it may hurt, i tried silicone spray last nite, it didn't help at all
23:47 rue_house I'v seen a difference in flooding bits
23:47 rue_house I water flooded the holes for the boiler
23:47 useless you were drilling those holes? i thought you punched them
23:48 rue_house had to drill them, coulnd't find a punch the right size
23:48 rue_house I'd rather have had spent the extra money for a punch
23:48 useless anyhoo, the gold, the nitride coated, the blak bits are shredded by bed frame steel, these fastenal chrome-purpleish-greenish took the bed frame with no problems, dry
23:48 rue_house after the 104? holes, the bit isn't in spectacular shape
23:49 useless i did have a pilot hole however
23:49 rue_house yep
23:50 useless 228 holes total, drilled a pilot, then drilled to size, then touched with a 1/2 " bit to clean and bevel the holes a bit
23:50 useless touched both sides, 456 touches
23:51 useless i think i will not put the bateries in this rack, i think i'll make a separate drawer unit and set this rack on top of it
23:51 rue_house your a machine
23:52 useless if i could sell them, i'd automate it and undersell everyone
23:57 useless The Navy has reported that a major factor to the cause of the grounding was an error on a digital chart. The paper copy of the chart along with other digital charts correctly showed the reef location, but the one digital version on the USS Guardian had anomaly.