#garfield Logs

Aug 22 2012

00:32 katsmeow-afk hmm?
00:33 katsmeow-afk steam cars : http://www.steamautomobile.com/lcc/SA.html
00:34 katsmeow-afk 145.607 mph�S.S. Miner
00:34 katsmeow-afk The $99.00 Engine�S.S. Miner
00:40 rue_house gnight
00:45 katsmeow-afk oh,, err,, umm, ok, you too
00:46 rue_bed neat magazine page tho, thanks
00:46 rue_bed some of them were pretty modern
00:46 katsmeow-afk what's his nick has a Doble that'spretty spiffy
00:46 rue_bed rue_house, remember to take the pipe camera to work
00:47 rue_bed doble?
00:47 katsmeow-afk the Doble, and those like it, could be up and moving in a minute or less even when starting with ice in the boiler
00:47 rue_bed yea, Id like to know more about the boilers they used
00:48 katsmeow-afk the Doble used a lot of small bore thin walled tubes in the boiler
00:48 katsmeow-afk it cold heat a lot of water of a huge surface area in parallel
00:49 katsmeow-afk most car engines were in the 15-20hp range
00:49 katsmeow-afk prolly agood thing, if you look at the cars they were powering
00:49 katsmeow-afk wooden wheels, etc
00:51 katsmeow-afk The ship's four-bladed propeller, 18 feet in diameter, is directly coupled to the engine, which is designed to turn at a maximum of 76 rpm. This gave Liberty ships a top speed of about 11 knots.
00:51 katsmeow-afk the engine is normally run at 65 rpm, which saves fuel and is easier on the engine. This gives an average speed of around 10 knots. Power output from the engine is 2,500 horsepower. Fuel consumption is about 170 barrels (30 tons) of oil per day at 11 knots
00:51 katsmeow-afk The engine is supplied with steam at 220 pounds gauge pressure and 445 degrees F. from two oil-fired water tube boilers.
00:52 katsmeow-afk The three cylinders are the high pressure (24 inches diameter), intermediate pressure (37 inches diameter) and low pressure (70 inches diameter) cylinders, and all have a piston stroke of 48 inches.
00:53 katsmeow-afk 220 psi = 2500 hp on that engine
00:54 katsmeow-afk i wonder if i can bore the seam out of emt
00:55 katsmeow-afk 4" emt?
00:56 katsmeow-afk 4" emt = 4.334 ID 0.083 wall ; 4.500 OD
00:57 katsmeow-afk i wonder if it would hold 500psi
00:58 katsmeow-afk a cylinder made of it would weigh nothing and push at 6,280 lbs
08:49 rue_house direct coupled, variable pitch blades?
08:51 rue_house if you look at the tensile strength of the seam,
08:52 rue_house zippo:/files/iso# circle -d 4.33
08:52 rue_house Radius is : 2.165000
08:52 rue_house Diameter is: 4.330000
08:52 rue_house Circumfrence is : 13.603096
08:52 rue_house Area is : 14.725351
08:52 rue_house over 4.33"
08:53 rue_house 2000+some_odd lbs
08:53 rue_house per lin inch?
08:53 rue_house I think its border line
08:54 rue_house I cant see 1/4" wall having a problem tho
09:27 katsmeow-afk of course a 1/4 wall would be ok, but i was trying to get away from engines weighing 2000 lbs
09:30 rue_house well, hmm
09:30 rue_house isn't thinwall plastic pipe rated for 300psi?
09:31 rue_house maybe I'm wrong
09:31 katsmeow-afk 2" pvc is rated 330 lbs at 23C/75F
09:32 katsmeow-afk problem is it clod flows and then melts much above that, like in the case of piston friction
09:34 rue_house but if plastic can take 66% of what you want for metel...
09:35 katsmeow-afk ok, where do youget any steam (of any chemical, not just water) at 23C , when the condenser coils at also at 23C ?
09:36 katsmeow-afk PVC melts well below 100C/212F
09:39 katsmeow-afk carp, i need to get going, i need to be back *out* of town before noon, in 2.5 hrs
09:42 iamturnip rue_house: the mag safes can easily be repaired if the head is the issue
09:42 iamturnip we sell them for $40 for a 60W
11:55 katsmeow-afk i'm baaaaack
14:16 rue_house iamturnip, how about $50 + shipping?
14:17 rue_house I have to shut down my machine, the bank needs to borrow my UPS
14:45 rue_house need more big ups'
18:16 katsmeow-afk i hope you're charging them for it
18:17 katsmeow-afk </pun>
18:53 katsmeow-afk Tom, if i had two 10ft pieces of ball thread 1.25 dia , but not the ball nuts, would they be useable, can i make a ball nut, or buy a ball nut?
18:53 katsmeow-afk what if i had ball thread 2" dia?
18:53 katsmeow-afk and i was paying 50 cent/ft for it?
19:02 Tom_itx it looks complicated to make a ball nut
19:03 Tom_itx you would pay more than .50 to ship that per foot
19:04 katsmeow-afk it's at the recycler
19:04 katsmeow-afk i set aside 20ft of the 1.25"
19:05 katsmeow-afk there's at least another 5 of the 10ft pieces
19:06 katsmeow-afk hmmmmmmmmmmmm
19:06 katsmeow-afk i wonder if those ~25 ball nuts i have from the power steering would fit
19:09 Tom_itx ok open scad exports stl
19:09 Tom_itx solidworks imports stl
19:09 Tom_itx solidworks exports iges
19:09 Tom_itx i can use iges in my cad cam
19:09 Tom_itx gawd what a cludge
19:29 rue_house might not look the same going ou
19:29 rue_house you better try openscad before you think baout using it
19:29 rue_house I suspect you will find it unusefull for most things
19:30 Tom_itx i loaded it because i found some files i wanted
23:11 katsmeow-afk The University of Iowa Power Plant modified boiler 11 in 2003
23:11 katsmeow-afk to burn a mixture of coal and biomass at a rate of 170,000 lbs/hr
23:11 katsmeow-afk holy crap
23:11 katsmeow-afk that's 4 18wheelers packed to 42,500 lbs each, near the max roadway load
23:12 katsmeow-afk each day
23:12 katsmeow-afk in just ONE of their boilers
23:24 katsmeow-afk When
23:24 katsmeow-afk fuel wood is heated to 200�- 600�C in the absence of air, the wood initially breaks
23:24 katsmeow-afk down into oil vapour (tar), char (primary char) and gas (primary volatiles). The
23:24 katsmeow-afk release of volatiles begins at 250�C
23:25 katsmeow-afk Oil vapour generated near the surface of small particles can escape
23:25 katsmeow-afk into the gas phase before being cracked into secondary char (Reed 1981). But these
23:25 katsmeow-afk oil vapours are cracked at high temperatures (above 600�C) to form reformed gas
23:25 katsmeow-afk such as hydrocarbons, mainly methane, and this process is called secondary pyrolysis
23:25 katsmeow-afk Pyrolysis converts 80 to 95% of
23:25 katsmeow-afk original mass into liquid phase products such as water, tars and oils, and gaseous
23:25 katsmeow-afk phase products including, CO, CO2, H2 and hydrocarbons
23:25 katsmeow-afk http://people.eng.unimelb.edu.au/lua/Jayah-MEngSc.pdf
23:26 katsmeow-afk doesn't get interesting till chapter 4
23:28 katsmeow-afk another pdf said if you can overpressure the chamber to 75psi, you double the pyrolysis space
23:33 katsmeow-afk have shown that temperature of around 900K is
23:33 katsmeow-afk favourable for complete pyrolysis.
23:33 katsmeow-afk 900K = 1200F
23:36 katsmeow-afk ok, so up the pressure in the system by cranking down the flue valve, then tune the temperature up by adjusting blower air, let the char do whatever
23:37 katsmeow-afk this tells me that you get the most energy out of the pyrolysis gasses and oils, and buring the physical pure carbon takes so much air you carry off the heat in the excess air, lowering the temperature
23:38 katsmeow-afk So an air fuel ratio more
23:38 katsmeow-afk than 2.4 is not desirable as it increases the temperature above 1500K which has
23:38 katsmeow-afk adverse effects on the throat insulation and lining and also makes the gas lean.
23:39 katsmeow-afk you burn the char, the temp goes up int he burn zone, but goes down in the final output duct
23:40 katsmeow-afk but i am gonna assume you can take the char (carbon) out, and drop it into the fuel hopper, because carbon does burn, and it's only ~5% of the solid fuel feed
23:40 tsmeow-afk pokes rue to see if there's any feed
23:42 tsmeow-afk needs high outlet temps to pyrolisis rubber, but not severely high temps in the burn pyrolysis
23:43 katsmeow-afk i wish there to be zero exposure of the solid rubber to air, so it hasto be hot as hell to vaporise it into the 1200F burn zone
23:44 katsmeow-afk ideally, once this process is started, it is self-sustaining
23:44 katsmeow-afk Of the five parameters investigated in this section, the moisture
23:44 katsmeow-afk content of fuel wood and heat loss are the main variables affecting downdraft
23:44 katsmeow-afk gasifiers. Moisture content and heat loss have greater effects on reactor temperature
23:44 katsmeow-afk and hence on the conversion efficiency.
23:48 katsmeow-afk they are recommending a gassification zone, which i assume is the fuel depth on top of the pyrolysis zone, of at least 32cm, just for moderate drying of the fuel
23:49 katsmeow-afk according tot he graph, less than 10cm the efficency sucks, drops below 55% sharply
23:50 katsmeow-afk and apparently, the feed throat for that area should be at 57 degrees angle cone shape
23:51 katsmeow-afk fuel wood preparation cost for blocks of 5 cm for the gasifier tested at TRI
23:51 katsmeow-afk (BECE gasifier) was 10% of the cost of fuel wood. Larger chips reduce the
23:51 katsmeow-afk preparation cost but they would need longer reactor lengths to achieve the same char
23:51 katsmeow-afk conversion as smaller chips.
23:51 katsmeow-afk so it does seriously matter how deep the fuel is piled into the burner
23:53 katsmeow-afk A higher inlet air temperature results in a higher oxidation temperature and a
23:53 katsmeow-afk faster reaction rate which in return increases the conversion efficiency. But the
23:53 katsmeow-afk increase in conversion efficiency is not significant compared to the energy
23:53 katsmeow-afk required to increase the temperature of inlet air.
23:54 katsmeow-afk (unless it's waste heat you can recover cheaply)