#garfield Logs

Jun 03 2012

22:23 katsmeow-afk http://designerthinking.com/images/pancake/IMG_1757m.jpg
22:24 katsmeow-afk http://designerthinking.com/images/pancake/IMG_1758m.jpg
22:24 katsmeow-afk http://designerthinking.com/images/pancake/IMG_1759m.jpg
22:24 katsmeow-afk 59 = winding jig ,, needs the 3/16 pins yet
22:25 katsmeow-afk 58 = sketching out where to put the pins , and allowing for wire diameter etc
22:25 katsmeow-afk 59 = the rotor with magnets , spools of pretty wire , writing and erasing devices
22:26 katsmeow-afk 1-2 meg pics available on request
22:26 katsmeow-afk err
22:26 katsmeow-afk 57 = winding jig ,, needs the 3/16 pins yet
22:28 Tom_itx holy smoly!
22:29 katsmeow-afk hmm?
22:29 Tom_itx that must be the test copper
22:29 Tom_itx you're making progress..
22:30 katsmeow-afk i applied pulses to one magnet with handheld copper yesterday, no clue how much amps, but it was quite a jerk
22:30 katsmeow-afk the count of 28 magnets was perfect for a few reasons
22:30 Tom_itx is that what i did?
22:31 Tom_itx i forgot
22:31 katsmeow-afk you drilled the holes in the copper on http://designerthinking.com/images/pancake/IMG_1759m.jpg , and made the disk round, and that hub
22:32 katsmeow-afk that's not the best of the disks, i didn't want todamage the perty one till i worked out some kinks
22:32 Tom_itx that's what i figured
22:33 Tom_itx you gonna epoxy those in place?
22:33 katsmeow-afk i worked out the kinks as far as i know a couple days ago, needing to make a 2-piece winding assy, hence the jig going together today
22:33 katsmeow-afk nope, the press fit worked fine cept for that torn one, i epoxied it
22:33 Tom_itx good
22:34 katsmeow-afk i took a lite spin around the id of the other holes, prolly .001 off, and it all worked
22:34 Tom_itx you may have to strip the copper off
22:34 katsmeow-afk yes
22:35 katsmeow-afk the copper at this moment serves no purpose, and may be a noticeable impediment to performance
22:36 katsmeow-afk i am going to wind 2 layers of 6 wires, making 3 phases, and epoxy them into one module
22:36 katsmeow-afk that's awg18 copper
22:37 Tom_itx like those fischer packyl sp? motors rif used on his windmill
22:37 katsmeow-afk i chose heavy wire so it could pull respectable current even below 12vdc
22:37 Tom_itx or similar...
22:37 katsmeow-afk no, altho those were flat, they were not true pancake motors
22:37 Tom_itx ok
22:38 katsmeow-afk all pancake motors i have seen also have a wound rotor, stationary magnets, leading me to believe i could not make them, and that's why they are so bloody pricey
22:39 katsmeow-afk by putting the magnets into the rotor, i don't haveto fool with square wire, vacuum laser welding, brushes, etc
22:44 katsmeow-afk Tom : http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/hsc/hsc/electric_motors5.html
22:45 katsmeow-afk http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/hsc/hsc/real_motors/large_images/DSC00079.jpg <<== that is vac laser welded at the tips, using square wire, and it's very precision work
22:45 Tom_itx ahh
22:45 Tom_itx is there a reason they don't spin the magnets?
22:46 katsmeow-afk yeas, the motor was developed before there was a way to switch the windings if they were stationary
22:46 katsmeow-afk ditto the strong magnets we have today
22:46 Tom_itx ok
22:47 Tom_itx i need to wrap things up for tonight. gotta finish some paper work before i can sleep
22:47 katsmeow-afk i am not sure i wanna cut all the 3/16 dowel tonite either
22:48 katsmeow-afk it would be nice to make a winding tho
22:51 katsmeow-afk The more efficient electromagnetic rotors and stators as pioneered by Davenport, became the norm and the reluctance motor was forgotten. It was however revived in the 1960's when new semiconductor technology made electronic commutation possible and, because of its simplicity, the reluctance motor finds many uses today.
22:51 katsmeow-afk not related to the pancake, except the technology didn't exist, and no one has changed anything since then
22:52 Tom_itx is this like a hdd motor... 3 phase?
22:52 katsmeow-afk yeas, i am winding it like a 3phase motor
22:53 katsmeow-afk the only diff tween a pm 3-phase synchronous motor and this i am doing is in mine you could easily change the phase relationship to the rotor position, and drive the power like a stepper, and it would act like a stepper
22:54 katsmeow-afk a normal 3-phase motor cannot be stepped, a PM or electric rotor in a otherwise normal 3-phase stator housing can be stepped
22:54 Tom_itx the 68332 mask G had 3 phase motor driver as part of the microcode
22:55 katsmeow-afk if you pull the diodes out of a car alternator, and put dc into the rotor, you can drive the stator windings to make it be a 3=phase motor, or a 3-phase stepper
22:56 katsmeow-afk those windings pull gobs of amps tho, they must be pwm'd with a current limiter
22:56 katsmeow-afk prolly good for a hp max
22:56 katsmeow-afk they are pretty lossy tho, if i had to do that, i'd build up the oem rotor diameter or replace it, close up that huge gap tween the rotor and stator
22:58 katsmeow-afk 1839 Prussian engineer Moritz Hermann von Jacobi financed by Czar Nicholas makes first electric powered boat
22:58 katsmeow-afk drat again, i had no chance
22:59 katsmeow-afk i put an golfcart electric motor on a gas engine outboard foot
22:59 katsmeow-afk it was quite heavy
22:59 katsmeow-afk so were the 4 car batteries to power it
23:04 katsmeow-afk Bain also proposed a method of generating electricity to power his clock by means of an earth battery. This consisted of two square plates of zinc and copper, about two feet square, buried deep in the ground a short distance apart forming a battery with the earth acting as the electrolyte. Such an arrangement produces about one volt continuously.
23:05 katsmeow-afk wow, the fax machine is really old technology : 1843 Alexander Bain patented a device to scan a two-dimensional surface and send it over wires. Thus, the patent for the fax machine and the first use of scanning to dissect and build up an image was granted 33 years before the patent was given for the telephone.
23:08 katsmeow-afk 2003 Finnish metallurgist Rainer Partanen patents the rechargeable aluminium air battery using nanotechnology to achieve very high energy densities.
23:08 katsmeow-afk previous to that, the aluminum plates were removed and replaced, much much faster than recharging them
23:47 rue_mohr yea, fax macines were around before phones
23:48 rue_mohr 1 volt?
23:48 rue_mohr I dont beleive it
23:48 rue_mohr .5 or .6 maybe
23:57 katsmeow-afk depends on the dirt, and moisture, i imagine
23:57 katsmeow-afk a lot on the ph