#avr Logs

Sep 21 2021

02:43 AM specing_ is now known as specing
06:50 AM MetalSutton: I am using a raspberry pi to use a hat board to program avrs
06:50 AM MetalSutton: the board comes with a script that runs on the pi to launch avrdude etc
06:51 AM MetalSutton: however I notice that the script excutes so that it changes the fuse bits before doing flashing and lock bits
06:51 AM MetalSutton: I am curious if this is the most common order of things.
07:38 AM exp: why do people expect an answer within 14 minutes lol
07:53 AM catphish: exp: you need to get better at meeting the SLA
07:54 AM exp: i'm still in the probation period for this channel, so I better be careful or I'll be fired!
07:54 AM exp: I wonder what nationality the founder was, I better hope it's not the US or we're all 'at will' ;-)
08:10 AM catphish: i'm just getting started with AVR8, i need to figure out what tools to use, i'm sad that the microchip IDE doesn't have a linux version, i don't know whether to get that running, or put something together manually on linux instead
08:11 AM exp: cmake and avr-gcc is completely sufficient until you want to do intensive debugging, so far I've used microchip studio for that
08:12 AM catphish: i'm more familiar with stm32, where i have my own makefile/gcc setup with ST provided headers
08:12 AM nohit: this is for linux https://bloom.oscillate.io
08:12 AM nohit: if you need debugging
08:13 AM exp: was that your project nohit or someone else? i still haven't given that a shot
08:13 AM nohit: someone else
08:13 AM catphish: bloom looks nice
08:13 AM exp: i remember them talking about it
08:13 AM nohit: yeah
08:13 AM exp: and catphish there's no difference really except there's a GNU libc which is pretty comprehensive
08:17 AM catphish: i wonder if bloom will work with my hardware
08:18 AM nohit: what hw do you have ?
08:18 AM catphish: oh, it supports atmel-ice, i'm ordering one of those
08:18 AM nohit: those are expensive
08:19 AM nohit: super expensive
08:19 AM nohit: i think that snap is much cheaper
08:19 AM catphish: yeah, i'd hoped to just use a serial cable (pyupdi), but it seems nothing supports debugging through that yet
08:19 AM nohit: yeah
08:20 AM catphish: afaik nothing else supports UPDI yet?
08:20 AM catphish: buying an atmel-ice isn't a big problem, but does seem overkill for something i feel should be doable in software
08:20 AM nohit: snap is 30e, ice is 105e
08:20 AM catphish: time will improve matters i'm sure
08:21 AM nohit: at mosuer
08:21 AM exp: i believe avrdude has a patch for updi support, i use it for PDI just fine
08:21 AM exp: and yeah you still need the physical interface, i didn't have a problem buying an atmel-ice
08:22 AM exp: it is overkill, and they're probably making €100 on a €105 cost, but it's a small price and nice to be able to get up and running in seconds without fiddling
08:22 AM nohit: sure
08:22 AM exp: for updi debugging i've no clue i'm afraid
08:22 AM catphish: yeah, pyupdi seems to allow programming with a plain serial cable, but no debugging yet, so will buy the ice for now
08:23 AM nohit: it just feels a bit silly that you can get stlink for around 10e
08:23 AM exp: that's partly because there's a thousand knock-offs around
08:23 AM exp: but yes, it's definitely silly
08:23 AM nohit: i mean officail one
08:23 AM exp: but compared to the cost of say, a sw license for basically any test hardware
08:24 AM exp: it's a sad fact of the profession
08:24 AM nohit: every 1st gen nucleo has one so i have like 100 stlinks
08:24 AM exp: i have a bucket of STM dev boards too so god knows how many I have
08:26 AM catphish: yeah hopefully china will copy atmel-ice soon enough, or open source UPDI debugging will happen
08:29 AM LeoNerd: I keep meaning to RE it
08:29 AM LeoNerd: I'll get around to it *one day*
08:29 AM LeoNerd: Or someone can stare at some sigrok .sr files for me and tell me what's going on
08:31 AM nohit: Supports 4-wire JTAG, Serial Wire Debug, UPDI, PDI, SPI programming, debugWIRE and TPI programming
08:31 AM nohit: that's for mplab snap
08:32 AM catphish: i hadn't seen mplab at all
08:33 AM nohit: me neither but you dont need to use it with snap if you use bloom
08:34 AM catphish: oh, so bloom works with mplab snap, which works with updi
08:34 AM nohit: yes
08:34 AM catphish: that sure is cheaper
08:35 AM nohit: but i dont know how bloom works nor have i used it, but in the front page it works with snap
08:35 AM nohit: and snap manual says it supports updi
08:35 AM nohit: +says
08:37 AM nohit: https://bloom.oscillate.io/docs/mplab-snap-avr-mode
08:37 AM catphish: yes it does, i just checked, with that said, bloom says it supports snap "in AVR mode"
08:38 AM catphish: but i don't see why that wouldn't include UPDI
08:39 AM nohit: https://github.com/navnavnav/Bloom/issues/4
08:40 AM nohit: "Bloom now supports the UPDI physical interface, from version 0.3.0. See https://bloom.oscillate.io/releases"
08:41 AM catphish: nice!
08:58 AM catphish: if mplab supports linux, and has a £22 programmer, i'll definitly start there!
09:01 AM qu1j0t3: depending on the part you generally don't need a programmer
09:01 AM catphish: how so?
09:01 AM qu1j0t3: and i think the 'not needing mplab' part is wellcovered above :)
09:01 AM qu1j0t3: catphish: are you programming bare chips?
09:02 AM catphish: well, chips on a board, but direct to the UPDI port
09:02 AM qu1j0t3: ah.
09:03 AM qu1j0t3: i'm referring mainly to the minimal-support boards like Trinket or Digispark/stump
09:03 AM catphish: i've not seen those at all
09:03 AM qu1j0t3: but if you have a different integration then yeah
09:03 AM catphish: i'm just buying chips and putting them in my projects :)
09:04 AM qu1j0t3: yeah or you can program bare chips (out of the board) with any ISP and a clip (the total cost of which should be not more than 22 quid)
09:04 AM catphish: i'll get an atmel ice and a mplab snap, and a pyupdi cable, and see what works for me
09:05 AM * qu1j0t3 nods
09:05 AM catphish: most ISPs support UPDI, which is what i've wired up
09:06 AM catphish: the chips probably support jtag and other things, but i think it's much easier to use the dedicated single-wire UPDI
09:06 AM catphish: i'm fairly new to this, but that's where i'm starting
09:06 AM LeoNerd: You can talk UPDI over any USB-UART chip and a 1k resistor
09:07 AM catphish: LeoNerd: yes, note pyupdi in my list above
09:07 AM LeoNerd: Some of the older guides suggest 4k7 but it turns out those don't work nicely with the newer AVR DA and DB chips
09:07 AM LeoNerd: Yuh
09:07 AM catphish: no debugging software on pyupdi though
09:07 AM catphish: (yet)
09:08 AM catphish: so i'll try all three
09:08 AM catphish: i generally prefer make / gcc for development, but might try mplab first for its all in one dev/prog/debug abilities and cross platform support
09:09 AM LeoNerd: catphish: Yeah, again: just needs some RE time
09:09 AM LeoNerd: Or someone can actually help me with it
09:11 AM catphish: LeoNerd: oh i see, doubt i know enough to help, but i'll have a play once i have my hands on the hardware
09:12 AM LeoNerd: Yes that's mostly what I need
09:12 AM LeoNerd: People with the hardware to take packet capture dumps
09:12 AM catphish: that i can definitely do
09:13 AM catphish: i can generate sigrok traces of things at least
09:13 AM catphish: and test stuff with atmega1609
09:14 AM LeoNerd: Good
09:15 AM catphish: should have hardware in about a week
10:54 AM exp: LeoNerd: no LA?
10:55 AM LeoNerd: ?
10:59 AM exp: LeoNerd: do you not have a Logic Analyser?
10:59 AM exp: or do you not have a UPDI target or something?
10:59 AM exp: just wondering what you're missing to do captures, as I can't imagine it's particularly high bandwidth
11:02 AM LeoNerd: I have all the bits
11:02 AM LeoNerd: WhatI lack is the time and the motivation
11:02 AM LeoNerd: I have a billion other projects I could be working on
11:02 AM exp: haha yep, i know that feeling
11:03 AM LeoNerd: If anyone else shows any interest in *something* that tends to have a huge positive effect in bumping it up the priority list
11:03 AM exp: a todo list growing faster than i can eat it
11:03 AM exp: well if you hit any wall, please shout, i am also too busy for words but i like to 'muck in'
11:06 AM qu1j0t3: why are we all too busy ._. who signed up for this
11:07 AM exp: i signed up as a senior dev lol
11:07 AM exp: i was foolish enough to volunteer some electronics knowledge
11:07 AM exp: and now i'm charge of the bloody stuff
11:07 AM exp: a lesson for the younger members: slack off as much as possible! :)
11:08 AM qu1j0t3: lol
11:08 AM qu1j0t3: i'm also a senior dev but can't get paid to do electronics
11:09 AM qu1j0t3: & yeah you're right, that would take the fun out of it
11:09 AM exp: it very much does, especially with deadlines and customers
11:09 AM qu1j0t3: just need to shrink the senior dev part till it can be drowned in a bathtub
11:10 AM exp: the worst is the "yes i can build this if you buy X"
11:10 AM exp: three weeks later, "please build it"
11:10 AM exp: X? no, no X.
11:10 AM qu1j0t3: :)
11:10 AM exp: i also have to convince a niche company to license us a module that i am just going to immediately copy
11:11 AM exp: because i don't have time to do the bring-up, but we have no interest in a plug-in module
11:11 AM exp: so.. really not looking forward to that
12:57 PM catphish: LeoNerd: it will very likely be useful for me, so i'll shout as soon as i'm in a position to help :)
12:57 PM catphish: i also have a million projects and much prefer the ones where somebody else cares!
01:04 PM LeoNerd: :)
02:43 PM specing_ is now known as specing