#avr Logs

Dec 14 2020

10:24 AM mouseghost: hi; any thoughts on doing development for embeds (atmega specifically) without access to the mcu?
10:31 AM mouseghost: and to peripherals... are there any simulators or something?
10:43 AM cehteh: mouseghost: yes but why .. rigging a simulator, esp external hardware/timing is hard. jut get a actual mcu breadboard and test circuit and test on real hardware
10:43 AM mouseghost: remote freelancing hmmm
10:43 AM cehteh: when you want to develop algorithms beforehand then write them portably and test that on your favorite host
10:44 AM cehteh: i did freelance without actual hardware, but with mcu, logic analyzer, scope and some breadboard mockup
10:44 AM cehteh: funlly to my own surprise firmware worked on the first try at the client overseas :D
10:45 AM mouseghost: o;
10:46 AM cehteh: mcu's alone are cheap, and some mockups helps more than actual hardware, less danger in case you only blink an led instead truning some machinery on etc
10:46 AM cehteh: and as i already saied rigging an simulator is doable bit has its own problems and error sources
10:48 AM mouseghost: cehteh, i guess it also depends on how much you get paid..
10:48 AM mouseghost: with that "cheap" lel
10:49 AM cehteh: wasnt cheap stuff :D and well simulator would be more work than actual hardware mockup i bet time wise
10:50 AM mouseghost: on the other hand, would it be feasible to make a mockup IO and then just code using exposed interfaces :thinking:
10:50 AM cehteh: client even offered me to ship parts of the hardware for testing, but i gracefully denied, seeing things on scope/logic analyzer working right is more helpful than just 'by chance' things
10:50 AM cehteh: there are a lot possibilities
10:50 AM mouseghost: hmm >.> i like by chance testinggg
10:51 AM cehteh: you'll have that sooner or later anyways when it comes to special wishes, fine tuning and debugging
10:52 AM cehteh: i mean dunno how complex the thing is you have in mind, some things might be hard to mock up (but then equally hard to simulate)
10:52 AM Rab: There are AVR simulators. But I found them harder to set up and less useful than a physical target.
10:52 AM cehteh: yeah
10:53 AM cehteh: and jsut the plain AVR simulator is the simplest part
10:53 AM cehteh: but you need to interface them with the real workd somehow in most projects
10:53 AM Rab: And there are too many gotchas in the physical realm.
10:53 AM cehteh: and simulation that can be a huge PITA and big source of failures
10:54 AM mouseghost: ;-;
10:54 AM * mouseghost jots down business idea
10:54 AM cehteh: lol
10:54 AM cehteh: what did you have in mind?
10:54 AM cehteh: get a handful arduino nano some breadboards and done
10:55 AM cehteh: https://twitter.com/i/status/1317236733654728704 <<< very simple example
10:55 AM cehteh: someone on irc asked me for a short job adding something to some existing code
10:58 AM mouseghost: cehteh, with that biz idea or that freelancing thing?
10:58 AM cehteh: both
10:59 AM mouseghost: biz idea -> simulator that works lol
10:59 AM cehteh: lol
10:59 AM mouseghost: freelancing thing -> some menu interface
10:59 AM cehteh: take $100k a team of programmers do that :)
10:59 AM mouseghost: bcuz im a kid who wants to make some money
10:59 AM mouseghost: cehteh, which one ;p?
11:00 AM cehteh: simulator
11:00 AM mouseghost: oh
11:00 AM skz81: I used a simulator when I was trying to debug task context switch once (upon a time)
11:00 AM cehteh: that works ,, with plug and play hardware components
11:00 AM mouseghost: i dont think it will be enough
11:00 AM cehteh: 100k might be even not enough
11:00 AM mouseghost: more like 100m
11:00 AM cehteh: i used a simulator too
11:00 AM mouseghost: 100k is a single landing page
11:01 AM cehteh: hehe whatever you dream :D
11:01 AM mouseghost: lol these confessions :D
11:01 AM mouseghost: its like "yes i have jacked off" :d
11:01 AM mouseghost: sorry..
11:01 AM skz81: I mean that was really helpful to step execute instruction. And that code had nearly no interaction with outside world, so simulating it was quite OK
11:02 AM cehteh: anyway forget about the sim idea, invest $50 for some breadboards few components (these 5V leds are great :D) and few nanos
11:02 AM cehteh: well bit electronics lab equipment as well scope, logic analyzer, benchtop psu
11:02 AM skz81: I guess I could used debugWire to debug on chip, too, but that would have implied to used extra HW i didn't had (I still don't !)
11:03 AM mouseghost: scope's included in $50?
11:03 AM cehteh: nope that not
11:03 AM mouseghost: :D
11:03 AM mouseghost: i do have a bread cutting board
11:03 AM skz81: A logic analyzer can fit the budget
11:03 AM mouseghost: two, even
11:03 AM cehteh: logic analyzer might be
11:03 AM skz81: ;)
11:03 AM mouseghost: ive almost fried one :P but i still have it!
11:03 AM cehteh: these cehap sealae clones are great for their money ($10 or so)
11:04 AM mouseghost: yes
11:04 AM cehteh: but scope is really important when it comes to exact timing and analog signals
11:04 AM mouseghost: they make you scared when they go into heating mode
11:04 AM cehteh: i jsut toos one out and grab the next one then :D
11:04 AM skz81: mouseghost, those wooden bread cutting board are NOT to go in the oven :p
11:04 AM cehteh: happend once to me :D
11:05 AM mouseghost: skz81, what happens then :O?
11:05 AM cehteh: any decent job should pay for a modest scope when you need one
11:05 AM skz81: mouseghost, dunno, they melt, maybe ? :p
11:05 AM cehteh: actually i may brought a too cheap one but its still way enough for me
11:07 AM cehteh: mouseghost: where are you located? and are you really 'kid' or student?
11:10 AM mouseghost: cehteh, poland; how do you define a 'kid' or student, and is this a question whether or am i?
11:11 AM cehteh: we have all kinds of 'guests' here some are children some are old farts,
11:11 AM mouseghost: im certainly no old fart; 17
11:11 AM cehteh: ok :)
11:12 AM mouseghost: cehteh, which category am i :C?
11:12 AM cehteh: i am almsot 51 .. so i would say kid :D
11:13 AM mouseghost: hmm, first person of that age who says 'almost' ;d
11:13 AM cehteh: well its only 3 weeks or so (ddint calc)
11:14 AM mouseghost: hm
11:14 AM mouseghost: still ;p
11:15 AM cehteh: anyway i was asking because to get an rough idea about experience and maybe financial capability. i once talked to a 13 years old boy from india and of course i couldnt suggest to buy a scope and a $400 sodlering station :)
11:16 AM mouseghost: hell, there are soldering stations that expensive?
11:17 AM cehteh: there are $4000 soldering stations
11:17 AM mouseghost: bruh
11:17 AM mouseghost: well... i do have some tooling
11:17 AM mouseghost: as i have some experience, but that doesn't mean that i get any jobs to do :P
11:17 AM cehteh: but you dont work in a chinsese production line and have to solder 10000 sub sockets to phones per hour
11:18 AM mouseghost: ;-;
11:18 AM cehteh: or rework BGA chips
11:19 AM cehteh: https://www.reichelt.de/loetstation-entloetstation-wxr-3031-set-420-w-3-kanal-esd-weller-wxr-3031-p220068.html?&trstct=pol_0&nbc=1
11:19 AM cehteh: possibly not the most expensive
11:20 AM mouseghost: a lot of features though
11:20 AM cehteh: anyway you dont need that
11:21 AM cehteh: btw there are scopes for $ 100k or so as well :D
11:21 AM cehteh: or euro whatever :) i am in germany
11:21 AM mouseghost: cehteh, hello neighbour :)
11:21 AM cehteh: well close to the french border, other side
11:22 AM mouseghost: aw :C
11:24 AM cehteh: anyway i am going on to wrestle some python ... duh forgotten most of it :D
11:24 AM mouseghost: goodluck :P