#avr Logs

Aug 26 2019

06:45 AM Fuchikoma_ is now known as Fuchikoma
06:52 AM day__ is now known as day
07:54 AM Thrashbarg_ is now known as Thrashbarg
11:25 AM day__ is now known as day
12:54 PM rue_bed: morning all
12:56 PM rue_bed: hmm, I dont have audio
12:57 PM vmt: --
12:58 PM rue_bed: need to get up, cast more aluminum
12:58 PM rue_bed: work on cnc machine
12:58 PM rue_bed: clean stuff up, make driveway pillars...
01:05 PM vmt: you've been working on that cnc machine for how long now?
03:15 PM day: are uC OS compareable to desktop OS? I mean, how does femtoOS prevent a program from accessing the hardware/memory directly?
03:16 PM day: or in otherwords what purpose do these OS serve?
03:16 PM Fuchikoma: I can think of no real purpose of such a thing
03:17 PM day: but they exist and seem to be used :?
03:18 PM Fuchikoma: http://www.femtoos.org/features.html huh
03:20 PM Fuchikoma: Still not entirely sure what purpose this serves. If you're trying to do so many different things that featuers like this are warranted, maybe AVR isn't the platform you should be using
03:22 PM day: not only that. his primary dev target are the attinys
03:24 PM vmt: the only reason i can think of anyone doing this would be of personal interest to make something just for shits and giggles -- because you can, i.e. useless
03:24 PM vmt: you've got to be major league fucking kidding me to start suggesting scheduling for avrs
03:25 PM day: besides wouldnt scheduling at least need one of the timers?
03:25 PM day: plus the corresponding ISR
03:27 PM day: the guy is maintaining the repo for 11years already
03:28 PM vmt: people smoke for 60, even 70 years in best cases, do you consider smoking highly beneficial also?
03:28 PM day: ur so mean 3:
03:28 PM day: not trying to defend it, i just thought it might be a nice project to familiarize myself with a simple OS
03:28 PM PoppaVic: That's like asking if it's beneficial to live 60-70 years: dumb question - of course it isn't.
03:30 PM vmt: day: there is quite a lot of very competent literature on the subject
03:30 PM PoppaVic: Not much point to an OS when the device has to run code out of flash, self-program from special-flash, and the flash has a limited life.
03:31 PM vmt: PoppaVic: well you can hook on some external memory e.g. and then start implementing super nice and useful avr-os features like hardware abstraction and access control
03:31 PM vmt: recommended by linus torvelo et al.
03:31 PM PoppaVic: You can blow yer brains out, too - or use a better chip for very little more
03:32 PM vmt: day: there's also a lot of good research on the topic of why operating system designs of today are utter bullshit
03:32 PM vmt: PoppaVic: well...
03:32 PM PoppaVic: I am sure you meant "udder" bullshit, but then we have the assorted *nix and even minix3
03:33 PM PoppaVic: (granted that linux is sure as hell bloating madly)
03:33 PM day: vmt: what do all modern os have in common that makes them "bullshit"?
03:34 PM vmt: too much processing done in the kernel vs just dumbing it down and letting userspace have more direct access to hardware
03:35 PM vmt: this would complicate software design and would actually make software niggers work for their $$$
03:36 PM vmt: however it would enable much better throughput out of current hardware
03:36 PM vmt: ...if the people writing software would know what the actual fuck they're doing, ... which is a stretch and a half
03:36 PM day: seeing that even gameconsoles have given up on that concept it probably will never come back
03:37 PM vmt: yeah it gets worse in every new gen
03:37 PM day: the risk for security screw ups just gets to high
03:40 PM vmt: the market would adjust itself to quality
03:41 PM vmt: you know, when fuckups happen, heads need to roll.
03:41 PM day: didnt work for a single game console before they moved to proper OS models :P
03:42 PM vmt: if you want to take game consoles as an example -- what's the security screw up angle here you're talking about?
03:42 PM day: iirc one of the modern playstations was pretty solid, except the devs decided to let the rng generator always generate the same fixed number ^.^
03:44 PM PoppaVic: it's also - almost entirely - a question of malware. In a *nix system you've isolated the system from the user. With controllers, we want it all together (more like your cp/m and c64's, etc).
03:44 PM day: the gameconsole just came to mind as it is a closed system without the 'user' variable.
03:44 PM PoppaVic: every gameconsole has a "user variable" ;-P
03:44 PM day: and they switched pretty late to bsd/windows etc.
03:45 PM day: yes but the user can only install officially signed software
03:45 PM PoppaVic: You are simply switching the whole conversation to locked/closed vs unlocked/open
03:49 PM day: because that's what it seems to come down to for consoles from my pov. and the implementation of a locked down system i believe gets harder the more direct hw access the user software has.
04:10 PM Smidge204: Game consoles are locked down because that's how they stave off piracy
04:11 PM day: And android does it for security
04:12 PM Smidge204: If you want to prevent someone from altering the code on our uC, use a one-time-programmable device or a mask ROM
04:14 PM day: i only look into it out of curiosity. this security/piracy discussion only came up because someone said 'modern os design are bullshit'
07:23 PM [1]MrMobius is now known as MrMobius
11:14 PM day__ is now known as day