#avr Logs

Jul 21 2019

02:23 AM diip: Hi
02:28 AM diip: I am thinking of writing a smaller version of AVRDUDE just for usb devices (primarily pro micro and other atmegaxxU4 devices)
02:28 AM diip: the reason is I want to embed it into another program so people don't have to install avrdude seperately.
02:31 AM soul-d: something like dfu-programmer ? or you don't mean with bootloaders ?
02:37 AM soul-d: wait microhip fed up the documentation website avr had ?
02:37 AM soul-d: :/
02:40 AM soul-d: ah they where called application notes there probably would have been some on the topic
02:42 AM soul-d: https://www.microchip.com/doclisting/TechDoc.aspx?type=appnotes search for things like programing , flash etc
02:45 AM soul-d: now only have to decearn wheater you can find avr application notes there
02:54 AM polprog: good morning
02:54 AM polprog: diip: i think avrdude has config macros that allow you to disable progrmamers you dont need
02:54 AM polprog: theres no point rewriting the flasher
03:48 AM diip: polprog: I want to embed this into another program, and I don't want to ask people to download avr seperately (or the arduino IDE)
03:48 AM diip: avr = avrdude
03:49 AM diip: soud-d: thanks will check those out
05:53 AM vmt: oh and cehteh forgot to mention that the ridiculousness of loonix desktop doesn't just end at not having a de-facto widget system, now with the (albeit snail-paced) emergence of wayland, you don't even have a de-facto window system soon
05:55 AM cehteh: i pretty much like that because deskop/window systems are horible
05:56 AM cehteh: having the clise of uning a tiled window manager is a huge benefit for me
05:59 AM vmt: i think you're missing the point
06:00 AM cehteh: i dont care what you think
06:00 AM cehteh: at least not when it involves my preferences
06:01 AM vmt: doesn't change the fact that you're completely missing the point
06:01 AM cehteh: i can live with that
06:01 AM vmt: a window manager is not a window system.
06:04 AM cehteh: i dont even know what you call a window system, x11 is the only common one on linux, maybe call waylab one as well (but its only the cpmpositor)
06:06 AM vmt: yes, but the architecture changes completely
06:07 AM vmt: and yeah, i call X a window system, and the wayland architecture to a degree as well
06:08 AM cehteh: i#d wish display-postscrip lifted. but it was too early for its time
06:10 AM cehteh: aka having a well defined language an toolkit serverside thats defines style and widgets, but can still be extended
06:10 AM cehteh: isolating gui from application
06:12 AM cehteh: an application may push custom widgets as code/resources, in some standard fashion in a well defined programming language, let it be postsctipt/forth or something else
06:13 AM vmt: if you let the server manage the widgets you do lose many a degree of control
06:13 AM vmt: if i understood you correctly
06:14 AM cehteh: why?
06:14 AM vmt: because then you're limited by whatever api the server exposes
06:15 AM cehteh: thus it has to be reasonable complete ab offer a programming language for extension
06:15 AM vmt: yeah, and designing one to encompass everything is a tricky proposal
06:15 AM vmt: why not have applications manage their widgets themselves
06:16 AM cehteh: look at macos/quartz ..there it works
06:16 AM vmt: i have never actually done any work of note for/with macs
06:17 AM cehteh: i meanz the architecture, not the look&feel i cant stand that either
06:17 AM vmt: yeah i understood you, i didn't mean the look/feel either
06:18 AM vmt: also when i said manage, i meant let widgets live in application space. though i guess what you're saying could work
06:18 AM cehteh: still all software is able to render consistent guis there from office to film production
06:18 AM vmt: sure, but so could e.g. immediate mode guis, too
06:18 AM vmt: so i'm not sure if that's a real argument
06:19 AM vmt: what i mean is, it's just not a particularly good way of doing so
06:19 AM vmt: but, designed properly it could work. it's an interesting idea anyway
06:20 AM cehteh: widgets could be hybrid, by default live only on the server just report events back, thats the easy way
06:20 AM cehteh: but can have enough hooks to handle as much stuff you want
06:21 AM vmt: it would be handy for the application to cease control over drawing for example, so you could use hardware directly to draw into them
06:21 AM cehteh: why should the application need to care for renderin a slightly shaded button when the mouse hoovers ober it, display a help popup, render its clicked state
06:22 AM vmt: because all widgets are not buttons.
06:22 AM cehteh: in the normal/simple case that could be all done by the server
06:22 AM vmt: "normal/simple" cases are always easy to cover, sure
06:22 AM cehteh: yeah i only give a button as example
06:23 AM cehteh: now a text entry, may either be rigged only send an text back when the user completred the entry
06:23 AM vmt: what if you wanted to view a 3d mesh, for example, and have the output window act as an input window too
06:23 AM vmt: not having to do something ultra cumbersome to render to fbo by the application, read back the fbo and send it over to the server...?
06:23 AM cehteh: or every keystroke then the app may do things like correction/autocomplete
06:24 AM cehteh: or actually an application may push the code for that to the server
06:24 AM vmt: but why though, what's the benefit?
06:25 AM cehteh: i dont say the server must bbe ultra lightweight
06:25 AM vmt: i guess the benefit would be to closely couple the widgeting system so there would only be one. i'll give you that
06:25 AM vmt: but still... it just sounds slightly cumbersome to me
06:27 AM cehteh: just example to illustraze the idea, may make no sense for this, but the most impotant part is that the server holds the base for look and feel, and even semantics (user wishes help piopups or not) or placing menus at the op og the screen rather than the top of a window, whateber
06:27 AM cehteh: an application only needs to extebd what it really needs
06:27 AM vmt: well, this really is kind of like extended X
06:27 AM cehteh: and its not zillion widget libraries which look all different
06:29 AM cehteh: i may chsnge some config at one point(the server) ar runtime and its reflected in all rinning applications
06:29 AM cehteh: anyway .. not goung to happen and wayland is rather the opposite of that
06:30 AM vmt: yes, and i prefer it that way, really
06:30 AM vmt: though your idea is excellent in terms of forcing unification which the space does really need
06:30 AM cehteh: i thougt you dont like to have zillion widget libs
06:31 AM cehteh: with wayland its all the same mess again
06:31 AM vmt: i don't. but i also don't like the idea of having to unnecessarily communicate over to the server just to manage widgets, either
06:31 AM cehteh: qt, gtk, wx,...
06:31 AM cehteh: they just now trnder on the canvas probided by wayland
06:31 AM vmt: and the API (and extension capabilities thereof) being completely out of your hands
06:32 AM vmt: yes, i know
06:33 AM vmt: well, by whatever compositor you use, anyway
06:34 AM vmt: i want the widgets to live in application space. i want the widgets to be completely exposed so that if you want to poke and prod you may, at your own risk
06:35 AM vmt: and that's what i'm actually implementing. the initial version shipped in a project but i'm back working on it
06:36 AM vmt: i'm not sure if it will ever get a userbase, but at least i'm trying to contribute solving a problem, makes me feel all warm and fuzzy
04:16 PM ephemer0l is now known as ephemer0l_
11:11 PM day__ is now known as day