#avr Logs
Sep 05 2018
#avr Calendar
04:52 AM vmt: rue_: being idle is the nature of irc, i'm afraid
08:24 AM johnbeard_: k-line would be a good name for a comic book character, to go with a few others like Sigkill, Stacksmash, Captain Cache and his sidekick The Invalidator
08:27 AM LeoNerd: Colonel Panic, Major Error, and General Protection-Fault
08:27 AM johnbeard_: one the more hardware-y side, Fluxcore and The Rework Kid and there nemeses Tin Whiskers and Coldjoint
08:28 AM johnbeard_: "Fluxcore and the Rework Kid" -> techno band name too
08:29 AM vmt: LeoNerd: do you remember that one old beard who used to hang around here?
08:30 AM LeoNerd: /one/ ?
08:30 AM vmt: one time he said he has irc read to him via a speech synth so he can focus on other things while also ircing. Often times he wandered into speaking of how he worked with some old mcus or the likes he had worked with.
08:30 AM vmt: he was a regular for a long time, i just forgot his nick
08:30 AM LeoNerd: Hm.. I don't recall such a person
08:30 AM johnbeard_: that a nice idea
08:30 AM johnbeard_: you could use different speech synth voices for different nicks
08:31 AM vmt: are there logs of this channel spanning year and more back?
08:31 AM johnbeard_: i'd be like a (slightly) less inane version of normal radio
08:31 AM johnbeard_: they put the radio on in the workshop, and it drives me nuts, they talk such drivel all day and play the same songs over and over
08:32 AM vmt: LeoNerd: he was probably the most regular over here, at least 2 years ago
08:33 AM vmt: oh wait now i remember. he had his nickname after a star or a constellation or the likes...
08:33 AM vmt: lambdaaurigae?
08:35 AM vmt: hey thanks rue_, i'm not a bot
08:36 AM johnbeard_: that's what a bot /would/ say...
08:37 AM vmt: i just noticed the ctcp version from him
08:42 AM rue_: trying to chase up which nicks havn't spoken in a year
08:42 AM rue_: tho, I think if you idle for 14 days straight you should get bumped
08:42 AM vmt: did you kick lambda too?
08:43 AM rue_: didn't kick anyone
08:43 AM vmt: is he around anymore?
08:43 AM johnbeard_: i'm on a znc, being idle 14 days doesn't mean I'm not interested
08:43 AM rue_: does mean your not contributing
08:44 AM rue_: if your only ever gonna read the channel, you could read logs
08:44 AM vmt: contributing to what exactly?
08:44 AM rue_: not that anyone is *that* interseted
08:44 AM johnbeard_: doesn't mean I wouldn't if i see something in the backlog
08:44 AM rue_: talking, life, is contributing
08:44 AM johnbeard_: if i'm kicked, that's not going to happen, is it?
08:45 AM vmt: "life"?
08:45 AM vmt: now that's grand
08:45 AM rue_: again, 14 days idle, is really too long, go read a log
08:45 AM rue_: tom is graciously logging for us to go back and make howto's with
08:46 AM rue_: not that anyone a) tutors anyone anymore. b) ever says anything
08:46 AM vmt: so, is it not the same level of contribution whether people are idle, or not?
08:46 AM rue_: what is the point of an irc channel with 105 "listeners"
08:47 AM rue_: if nobody ever apeaks, there is no point to the channel/service
08:47 AM rue_: I'm just sayin
08:47 AM vmt: what i'm getting from this, is that you're embittered due to the lack of discussion going around in here
08:47 AM rue_: if you think on it, it makes sense
08:47 AM vmt: blatantly kicking people, does not solve the, ... "issue"
08:47 AM johnbeard_: those 105 people don't hurt anyone though, removing them won't make them talk
08:48 AM rue_: I was kicking bots that only listen, and I caught a few people who NEVER CHECKED THE CONTENT TO SEE THE WARNING IN 2 DAYS
08:48 AM rue_: aka, they DONT READ THE CHANNEL
08:48 AM rue_: so, their not talking,a nd dont read the channel
08:48 AM rue_: so, wtf!?
08:48 AM rue_: yes, apparenlt yI should have given the warning out every day for 2 weeks
08:48 AM vmt: and who is it really hurting, apart from the load on the irc server(s) of being on an additional channel?
08:49 AM rue_: it'll be another ~3years before it even MIGHT ever happen again
08:49 AM vmt: furthermore, not everyone is in irc every single fucking day.
08:49 AM vmt: or two, three four. you name it.
08:49 AM rue_: nobody knows the life cycle of a channel, maybe tom gets is, maybe kat, but *just* before a channel dies, it fills up with nicks that NEVER SAY ANYTHING
08:50 AM rue_: no, I'v dialed back to the 2 week thing
08:50 AM vmt: and your means of CPRing the channel is by kicking people?
08:50 AM vmt: your attempts are not only desperate, but misguided too
08:50 AM rue_: thats because you are not familiar with the life cycle of an irc channel
08:51 AM vmt: so an irc channel has inherent value on its own?
08:51 AM rue_: go join #linuxhelp
08:51 AM rue_: go on
08:51 AM rue_: that was a thriving channel back in 2002
08:51 AM vmt: it is not there for discussion for people who are interested in a topic, it's there because it's an *irc channel*?
08:51 AM rue_: go join #linuxhelp
08:51 AM rue_: go join #linuxhelp
08:51 AM rue_: go join #linuxhelp
08:51 AM rue_: go join #linuxhelp
08:51 AM rue_: go on !!
08:51 AM rue_: go see it!!!
08:51 AM vmt: i am not fucking interested in "linux help"
08:51 AM vmt: and that's the point, which you fail to see
08:51 AM rue_: so you dont beleive about channel life cycle
08:52 AM rue_: you dont beleive me and you wont listen
08:52 AM johnbeard_: also, since 2002, someone invented stack exchange
08:52 AM LeoNerd: These facts might be *correlated* but they are far from *causal*
08:52 AM johnbeard_: and the Arch Wiki
08:52 AM vmt: again, a god damn irc channel has NO inherent value wrt. this.
08:52 AM rue_: I could give you 100 examples of channel life cycle, and you wouldn't hear it
08:52 AM LeoNerd: Global temperatures have risen in the past 200 years, and the number of pirates on the high seas have dropped. But we're not going to fix global warming by trying to encourage more pirates
08:52 AM vmt: irc channel exists solely for the sake of discussion for an INTEREST GROUP
08:53 AM johnbeard_: LeoNerd: i dunno, merchant shipping is BAD news, emissions-wise
08:53 AM LeoNerd: Similarly: removing idle users from here won't *automatically* get more discussion and chat back
08:53 AM vmt: if no one is INTERESTED, there will be no discussion. You cannot force it.
08:53 AM rue_: and how about for realtime tutoring?
08:53 AM vmt: rue_: what? and how is that even remotely relevant
08:53 AM LeoNerd: Honestly, other than looking at the little number in the bottom corner of my window, I had no idea we had 100 or so idle users sitting in here.
08:53 AM rue_: ah, so your saying there are ~95 people here not interested in the channel topic, so they dont speak on it?
08:53 AM LeoNerd: It really makes /no difference/ to me, whether we've got 5 people who talk, or 5 people who talk and 110 idlers.
08:54 AM LeoNerd: I sit in lots of channels because I'm interested in those topics /some/ of the time
08:54 AM vmt: rue_: they may or may not be. they might also have no input on the topic.
08:54 AM rue_: LeoNerd, have you never read the logs?
08:54 AM LeoNerd: Today, I am writing and reviewing Perl code, so I'm not really in an AVR mood, so until now I haven't had anything to say in here today
08:54 AM LeoNerd: Maybe I won't have anything to say for two weeks, until suddenly I'm doing some AVR electronics again. Then I will speak
08:54 AM polprog: ^^^
08:55 AM vmt: rue_: you are very misguided.
08:55 AM LeoNerd: But I cast my eyes over the chatter from time to time, and sometimes if a topic I know about comes up I'll say a few words anyway, even if otherwise I'm ignoring it for a week
08:55 AM johnbeard_: LeoNerd: yep, same here (though more in #kicad when I have time)
08:55 AM vmt: rue_: if you want more discussion, you need advertising, not kicking. but by god beware, you might tempt some idlers in, too.
08:56 AM rue_: you guys area also saying something else interesting
08:57 AM rue_: your saying you would like to idle in a channel where nobody ever says anything
08:57 AM vmt: rue_: english
08:57 AM rue_: or that you would
08:57 AM vmt: rue_: for the nth time, the solution to that isn't to kick people.
08:57 AM LeoNerd: I'd like to idle in a channel in which nobody talk on irrelevant offtopic issues, yes
08:57 AM rue_: your saying that everyone would like to go idle in a channel wehre nothing is ever said
08:57 AM vmt: LeoNerd: that's not even the point here
08:58 AM LeoNerd: If people genuinely have nothing new to say, nothing to ask, ... there's no point saying anything
08:58 AM vmt: rue_: and how does enforcing discussion by threatening with a kick solve this?
08:58 AM rue_: *sigh* anyhow, if this channel is just going to be 4 peopel that speak, and 109 idlers, then I guess thats what it is
08:58 AM LeoNerd: I don't see how that's any different at all, to 4 people and zero idlers
08:59 AM LeoNerd: AGAIN: aside from the little tiny number in the bottom corner of my IRC window, I'd have no idea that those idlers were even in here
08:59 AM vmt: rue_: if you want more active people, then advertise the channel.
09:00 AM vmt: now, can anyone tell me if LambdaAurigae hangs around here anymore?
09:00 AM rue_: go chekc the logs
09:00 AM LeoNerd: SNR can be improved either by a stronger signal, or lower noise. But idlers don't make noise - they are by definition silence. You can't improve SNR by removing idlers; only by having more signal. And that means more users
09:00 AM vmt: rue_: give me the logs
09:00 AM vmt: not just today.
09:01 AM rue_: it has link to yesterday,
09:01 AM rue_: and the whole calandar
09:01 AM rue_: if you had opened it
09:01 AM vmt: LeoNerd: well, I think #avr was great (at least ~2 years ago) because the discussion here was open and not strictly related to avr.
09:01 AM rue_: your non-idling skills need work :)
09:01 AM vmt: LeoNerd: but this notion has nothing to do with whether people idle or not.
09:02 AM LeoNerd: http://paste.debian.net/1040831/ <== my entire logs from 2018
09:02 AM LeoNerd: Er.. also only two lines in the whole of 2017, of enh asking basically the same question
09:02 AM johnbeard_: how far back do matrix freenode logs go?
09:02 AM LeoNerd: and my logs don't go back to 2016
09:03 AM rue_: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23avr/2012-09-05.html
09:04 AM vmt: LeoNerd: thanks
09:04 AM vmt: seems like he's not around anymore. a shame, maybe we need to kick a few idlers for that
09:05 AM LeoNerd: vmt: I find that about a lot of Freenode channels though. The channel name suggests the "topic", and the "topic" is really just a tie-breaker for bandwidth QoS purposes
09:05 AM LeoNerd: If the chat is otherwise idle, people chat about cars, food recipes, whatever...
09:05 AM vmt: LeoNerd: yes. but for a concrete example, ##electronics was (and probably is) complete garbage
09:05 AM rue_: or they come ask a question and if not 1 or 104 people answer in 4 mins they leave
09:05 AM vmt: so for any serious discussion on the topic, was better done here
09:06 AM LeoNerd: ##electronics has been ontopic for a few bits today. I was chatting about current shunt monitors earlier
09:06 AM vmt: i wasn't talking about being on-topic
09:06 AM rue_: hmm, did LambdaAurigae ever speak?
09:07 AM vmt: let's say about two years ago when i really was last active on irc, electronics was full of ignorant people eagerly sharing their... let's say, opinions
09:07 AM LeoNerd: My logs would also show join or quit messages, etc... Mine don't contain any of those either
09:07 AM vmt: rue_: yeah he did
09:07 AM johnbeard_: talking about current shunts, my current sense amplifier totally works, even though i couldn't actually try it before ordering PCBs :-D
09:07 AM rue_: I'm not seign any life back in 2012
09:07 AM vmt: LeoNerd: which doesn't really surprise me, due to freenode mostly being software "engineers"
09:07 AM rue_: from him
09:08 AM vmt: rue_: try 2015-16
09:08 AM rue_: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23avr/2015-09-06.html
09:08 AM LeoNerd: johnbeard_: oooh.. details?
09:08 AM LeoNerd: (current monitoring is something of a specialist subject of mine :))
09:08 AM rue_: there ya go
09:08 AM vmt: rue_: do you have logs back from those days?
09:08 AM vmt: thansk
09:08 AM johnbeard_: it's really nothing special
09:08 AM rue_: DID YOU CLICK THE GOD DAMNED LINK!?
09:08 AM vmt: NO, KICK ME
09:09 AM johnbeard_: hold on, lets me change the kicad project -_-
09:09 AM LeoNerd: johnbeard_: Ah.. I'm specifically looking for high-bandwidth ( > 1MHz ) solutions that can do nontrivial high-side voltage ( > 20V )
09:09 AM vmt: oh, i forgot. he had an underscore in his nick
09:09 AM LeoNerd: It's a particular combination that turns out to be /really/ hard
09:09 AM johnbeard_: hmm, well mine works on a 24V shunt
09:09 AM rue_: LeoNerd, dc or ac current?
09:10 AM LeoNerd: DC, so at least that's easy
09:10 AM johnbeard_: it's not really "high side" (very near the ground connection) but that's just an implementation detail
09:10 AM johnbeard_: the shunt would only have about 2V across it though
09:10 AM LeoNerd: Aha! Yes; last line of text emitted was: #avr-1110.log:23:01:58 irc.quit {channel: "#avr", nick: "Lambda_Aurigae", quitmsg: "Ping timeout: 252 seconds", userhost: "~Lambda_Au@192.171.216.131"}
09:10 AM rue_: i did one that produces a peroportionate current source,
09:11 AM LeoNerd: Thereafter, people discussing his absence, but he never appeared again. That was from 2017
09:11 AM rue_: I dont know if it could be built for HF
09:12 AM johnbeard_: LeoNerd: II'm using a BA2904SF op-omp, but the band width isn't that high
09:13 AM LeoNerd: That describes itself as a "ground sense" opamp
09:13 AM rue_: over the past month I'v been working with a number of RF op-amps to do oscillator stuff
09:13 AM vmt: LeoNerd: when was that, though?
09:13 AM LeoNerd: GBW 0.5MHz - bah
09:14 AM LeoNerd: vmt: 1110.log:23:01:58 <== in 2017
09:14 AM rue_: I dont ahve all the part numebrs on me
09:14 AM rue_: ... why do you need a current sense amp at ~Mhz?
09:14 AM vmt: LeoNerd: alright
09:14 AM vmt: thanks
09:14 AM LeoNerd: rue_: because I want to observe µs-range power timing events on microcontrollers
09:15 AM LeoNerd: for very low consumption battery purposes
09:15 AM rue_: ah
09:15 AM LeoNerd: It's actually AVR-relevant ;)
09:15 AM rue_: so, what do you mean by "high voltage"?
09:15 AM LeoNerd: Oh, well other times I want to go up to maybe 24V. That time, I'm watching PWM controllers for big LED clusters
09:16 AM rue_: ok, well if your udner 44V, its all cool
09:16 AM LeoNerd: Yeah; in practice I don't go much beyond 24V. Actually, 12V usually
09:16 AM rue_: I have to go to work soon, but I have a list of some Mhz bandwidth 44V op-amps
09:16 AM rue_: so, meet you in 9 hours?
09:16 AM LeoNerd: Oh, that isn't the hard part
09:17 AM LeoNerd: The hard part is the commonmode rejection; using it on highside shunts
09:17 AM rue_: I got that
09:17 AM rue_: did I post it?
09:17 AM LeoNerd: You can't just e.g. buy a bunch of 0.1% resistors and make yourself a differential amp out of it. That won't be good enough
09:17 AM rue_: ...
09:17 AM rue_: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/circuits/
09:17 AM rue_: doesn't look like it
09:17 AM LeoNerd: I did find a chip that's basically perfect for me - the MAX9643. Then Maxim discontinued it :(
09:18 AM LeoNerd: So I bought a huge reel of them that I am /hoping/ will last me long enough to keep making/selling my boards, until I design a suitable replacement
09:18 AM vmt: what kind of qty of said boards have you sold?
09:18 AM rue_: what can those little ones do?
09:19 AM LeoNerd: So far.. hrm... about 30 of the cheap non-fancy ones, and 15 of the fancier ones
09:19 AM LeoNerd: So hardly high-volume ;)
09:19 AM LeoNerd: Maxim said they could spin up the fab for me if I wanted to order a "small run of maybe 10k units"...
09:19 AM LeoNerd: I don't think that will be necessary ;)
09:19 AM vmt: hey, you never know
09:20 AM rue_: SC70-6?
09:20 AM rue_: INA199B3DC ?
09:21 AM rue_: INA213
09:21 AM LeoNerd: I've seen some INA chips used for this; they can be OK, but I've not seen one anywhere near capbable of 1MHz
09:21 AM rue_: ok
09:22 AM LeoNerd: Yah; e.g. INA199 claims 80kHz at best
09:22 AM rue_: but as 1Mhz, harmonics and stuff are gonna screw things up
09:22 AM johnbeard_: LeoNerd: ground sense as in "doesn't go to +ve rail, but does go to 0"
09:22 AM rue_: ok
09:22 AM johnbeard_: so won't work for high-side if "high = Vcc"
09:22 AM rue_: anything over 500Khz, and a few pF, or a cm of wire int eh wrong place, mess things up good
09:23 AM rue_: my circuit (sorry, dont have it on hand right now) is high side, can go from 0 to 36
09:26 AM LeoNerd: Yeah that's why my layout is quite small and compact around the front stage
09:30 AM rue_: I thik my circuit can be done in HF, I'll post for you
09:30 AM rue_: is if for a variable power supply?
09:31 AM LeoNerd: https://www.tindie.com/products/leonerd/oscilloscope-current-probe-plus/ -- it's this
09:34 AM johnbeard_: LeoNerd: i've been planning to do a isolated current probe at some point (ripping off a design from Elektor magazine)
09:34 AM johnbeard_: (or i could just buy one....)
09:35 AM LeoNerd: Mmm.. the isolated ones are usually magnetically coupled aren't they? Good for high-current stuff, but not really suitable at the ~1mA end of things
09:35 AM johnbeard_: LeoNerd: yeah, but for my case, it's pretty rough and ready to sneak a look across the current-limiters on an SCR gate
09:36 AM LeoNerd: Mmm, see mine can do that just as easily
09:36 AM LeoNerd: It's not /isolated/, just high-side. Provided the commonmode is under 60V that's fine
09:36 AM johnbeard_: that is at 380V, tho
09:36 AM johnbeard_: more like 415 in the UK actually
09:37 AM LeoNerd: Ahh.. yeah.. you'll be wanting something isolated then
09:40 AM johnbeard_: i probably could run it all at like 24V TBH, and just hope it works at 415V too
09:41 AM johnbeard_: normally I don't even plug in the mains stuff, I just listen for the pulse transformer buzzing
10:29 AM [1]MrMobius is now known as MrMobius
04:35 PM vmt: talk, we need talk. /discuss
06:55 PM rue_: they bumped the servers again eh?
06:56 PM rue_: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/siggen/p1100338.jpg
06:56 PM rue_: that is a pretty nice signal for 1Mhz
11:55 PM rue_: how the hell would stack exchange be a substitute for realtime irc???
11:55 PM rue_: thats jibberish
11:55 PM rue_: thats like saying newsgroups going out of fassion was nothing to do with people wanting instant answers
11:56 PM day_ is now known as day