#avr Logs
May 25 2018
#avr Calendar
03:01 AM eimiar: 'morning
03:04 AM eimiar: yesterday i used an external power supply for my avr
03:04 AM eimiar: had 5V on VCC-GND
03:04 AM eimiar: and still couldn't establish communication between my tumpa-lite and atm32
03:04 AM eimiar: actually the message displayed was something like "not responding to program enable"
03:04 AM eimiar: or something like that
03:04 AM nuxil: on windows or linux ?
03:04 AM eimiar: linux
03:04 AM eimiar: on virtualbox:D
03:05 AM nuxil: make sure its setup for correct port ?
03:05 AM Haohmaru: eimiar have you still not managed to program that atmega from.. days ago..?
03:06 AM eimiar: Haohmaru, actually i've successfully established communication between it and raspberry pi
03:06 AM polprog: extra credit for determination. you need a lot of it in microcontroller programming
03:06 AM eimiar: now i'm trying to use another device as a programmer
03:06 AM eimiar: one thing i might wanna try is to update avrdude version
03:07 AM nuxil: hos does you command line look like?
03:07 AM eimiar: since i'm using debian stretch
03:07 AM nuxil: what port have you specifyed for this ftdi thingy
03:07 AM eimiar: there is no port to specify
03:08 AM Haohmaru: eh?
03:08 AM eimiar: avrdude implements libmpsse to communicate with the ftdi chip
03:08 AM eimiar: the only things you need to specify are vid and pid
03:08 AM eimiar: and usb port
03:08 AM eimiar: but i do that on config
03:09 AM nuxil: avrdude still needs to know if where device is.
03:09 AM nuxil: *where
03:09 AM eimiar: you can read more in here http://doswa.com/2010/08/24/avrdude-5-10-with-ftdi-bitbang.html
03:09 AM eimiar: device is defined by vid and pid
03:10 AM Haohmaru: is this on a normal computer?
03:10 AM eimiar: https://github.com/kcuzner/avrdude/blob/master/avrdude/avrdude.conf.in lie 463
03:10 AM eimiar: *line 463
03:10 AM eimiar: of course i checked pins
03:11 AM eimiar: and that vid and pid are correct
03:11 AM nuxil: No.
03:11 AM nuxil: you misunderstood
03:11 AM nuxil: with avrdude what do you put after the -P parameter ?
03:11 AM eimiar: nuxil, i understood perfectly. i don't specify any -P parameter
03:11 AM Haohmaru: he seems to be doing something exotic
03:12 AM nuxil: eimiar, well try.
03:12 AM nuxil: cos avrdude isnt communicating :p
03:12 AM eimiar: in that link i gave before there's -P ft0
03:12 AM eimiar: but i honestly don't have any idea what that should be
03:13 AM nuxil: no. it should be something like /dev/blah
03:13 AM nuxil: lsusb
03:13 AM eimiar: that's exactly what i thought
03:13 AM eimiar: but nothing appears in /dev when plugging the device
03:13 AM nuxil: hmm
03:14 AM eimiar: i get device information from dmesg
03:14 AM Haohmaru: i have a device which uses ftdi.. when i plug it in, it becomes /dev/ttyUSBn
03:14 AM eimiar: and lsusb shows the device
03:14 AM Haohmaru: usually USB0
03:14 AM eimiar: ah didn't check for ttyUSB
03:14 AM eimiar: i might wanna check better
03:15 AM Haohmaru: and normally, on debian, a normal user doesn't have access to ttyUSB and parallel ports
03:15 AM Haohmaru: so you have to add your user to the "dialout" group
03:15 AM eimiar: that's why i'm working as root :)
03:15 AM Haohmaru: shame on you!
03:15 AM eimiar: nah
03:15 AM Haohmaru: SHAME
03:15 AM * nuxil slaps eimiar with sudo
03:16 AM nuxil: just why. why
03:16 AM nuxil: i wanna cry when i hear ppl run as root :p
03:16 AM eimiar: i'd like to know why
03:17 AM nuxil: cos its utterly stupid :p
03:17 AM eimiar: i'd like to know why
03:18 AM Haohmaru: cuz it's wrong ony many levels?
03:18 AM Haohmaru: * on
03:18 AM nuxil: on every level
03:18 AM nuxil: :p
03:18 AM eimiar: well seems like we're stuck in a infinite loop
03:18 AM Haohmaru: cuz you won't get presents from Santa?
03:18 AM eimiar: if (valid explanation) break;
03:20 AM nuxil: well nr 1 Stupidity: Nothing prevents you from doing something stupid.
03:20 AM nuxil: that can have affect the entire system
03:20 AM nuxil: 2 securoty
03:21 AM nuxil: *security
03:21 AM eimiar: nuxil, my system is being run in a virtual machine
03:21 AM nuxil: 3 you dont really need root
03:21 AM Haohmaru: running as root all the time is the easiest recipe to mess up your linux in all kinds of funky ways
03:22 AM eimiar: again, virtual machine
03:22 AM eimiar: i can restore it back to snapshot any time
03:22 AM nuxil: eimiar, running as root is a bad habbit. virtual macine or not.
03:22 AM polprog: nuxil: im not sure about that Tumpa thing, but for dragon i had to write a custom udev rule so avrdude could access it
03:22 AM eimiar: nuxil, i wouldn't run as root on a production server i'm not *that* stupid
03:22 AM Haohmaru: i guess he never ever plans to actually install linux and use it "normally"
03:22 AM polprog: yeah
03:22 AM Haohmaru: then fine - do whatever you like
03:23 AM eimiar: see? loop ended :D
03:23 AM Haohmaru: no, u still not a gud boi
03:23 AM Haohmaru: no presents from Santa
03:23 AM eimiar: ah, found something else http://diyduino.blogspot.com.br/2012/08/ft232r-bitbang-programmer.html
03:24 AM Haohmaru: ***duino again x_x
03:24 AM eimiar: shitduino has an avr chip, hasn't it?
03:25 AM Haohmaru: who knows
03:25 AM eimiar: well i'm gonna try with ft0 as -P parameter and see what happens
03:26 AM eimiar: maybe i won't even need an external power supply
03:26 AM nuxil: maybe you need to do what polprog had to do.
03:26 AM eimiar: polprog, what udev rule did you have to write?
03:28 AM eimiar: ahh that's why i wasn't using any -P parameter, i followed this guide http://www.jdunman.com/ww/AmateurRadio/SDR/helix_air_net_au%20%20AVRDUDE%20and%20FTDI%20232H.htm
03:30 AM polprog: eimiar. udev rule that matches vid and pid of the USB device and grants read / write access to a user or group
03:31 AM polprog: gimme a sec
03:31 AM polprog: https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/tut-hard-use-avr-dragon-linux-without-being-root
03:32 AM polprog: adapt for your cade
03:32 AM polprog: case
03:32 AM Haohmaru: i guess this is an alternative way to do it
03:32 AM polprog: vid and pid are identifiers of the usb, its the XXXX:XXXX numbers that list under 'lsusb'
03:33 AM Haohmaru: cuz dialout group covers more things, while this seems to be specifically for a given device
03:33 AM nuxil: eimiar, http://diyduino.blogspot.no/2012/08/ft232r-bitbang-programmer.html i read that. seems like a modded version of avrdude is used
03:33 AM nuxil: It took about 30-40 minutes to flash 4 kbytes program
03:33 AM nuxil: o.O
03:33 AM polprog: hey look
03:33 AM polprog: https://github.com/arduino-org/OpenOCD/blob/master/contrib/99-openocd.rules
03:33 AM polprog: theres a rule for tumpa there for you
03:33 AM polprog: bbl
03:33 AM nuxil: avrdude-serjtag04e.zip
03:34 AM nuxil: using avrdude-serjtag and it only took about 20 secs.
03:35 AM eimiar: it might be a modded version what uses jtag
03:41 AM nuxil: have you tried it without running in vm
03:42 AM nuxil: using WinAVR or something
03:43 AM Haohmaru: WinAVR is very old btw
03:43 AM Haohmaru: i use it for old version of avrdude only (due to stupid reasons)
03:44 AM eimiar: nuxil, no i haven't
03:46 AM polprog: winavr... it works, but so did our 98 honda civic
03:54 AM nohitzzzz: sup
04:04 AM nuxil: polprog, so its bad when cars are a bit old.. but ok when computers are ? :p
04:05 AM nuxil: Howdy nohitzzzz. not much. eating cookie and drinking coffee :)
04:05 AM Haohmaru: my oldest computer that i use is from 2009
04:05 AM polprog: dont get me wrong
04:05 AM polprog: that car was pretty good. someone just hit our boot
04:06 AM nuxil: hehe
04:08 AM Haohmaru: i got an even older one (from 1998 or 1999) which should still work, but i broke teh precious win98SE :~(
04:08 AM nuxil: a friend of mine did make a vw golf from a vw derby .. he crashed so hard with his trunk that it looked like a golf after the colition :p
04:08 AM Haohmaru: insta-overhaul
04:08 AM nuxil: :D
04:13 AM nohitzzzz: nuxil im gonna send it to you 4-5th next month
04:14 AM nohitzzzz: stk500
04:14 AM nuxil: :D nice. give me your paypal account when youre ready to ship.. so i will transfere some $
04:16 AM nohitzzzz: here it is https://s31.postimg.cc/d95c4x9qj/nuxils_STK500.jpg
04:16 AM nohitzzzz: no package, sorry
04:16 AM nuxil: looks good
04:16 AM nohitzzzz: the original package i mean
04:16 AM nuxil: not needed.
04:16 AM nohitzzzz: these were spares i got when lab was shut down
04:17 AM nuxil: i been putting on bits on these on ebay. but i alway loose ;p
04:17 AM nohitzzzz: and no, no paypal, its a gift
04:17 AM nuxil: *bids
04:17 AM nuxil: no i want you to have some $ for it. atleast so that the shipping is covered
04:19 AM nuxil: and strangely enough. shipping stuff from findland using economic solution takes about the same time as a package from china to arrive :p
04:20 AM nuxil: i bought some lcd's from Jartza and i think it took over 1 month before i had them here :\
04:26 AM nohitzzzz: i dont know how well you know the design, but it can be used for programming external chips too, it has the ISP6PIN header
04:26 AM polprog: [10:34] <nuxil> a friend of mine did make a vw golf from a vw derby .. he crashed so hard with his trunk that it looked like a golf after the colition :p
04:26 AM polprog: ayyy
04:26 AM nuxil: nohitzzzz, the only programmer i have experiance with is my own diy PI variant
04:26 AM polprog: lol would be faster if you drove for them
04:26 AM nohitzzzz: but plugin a chip in the socket and using it as dev kit works too, it even has that secondary RS232 connector that connects to the uart of the chip in socket
04:26 AM nohitzzzz: and it has 8 leds, and 8 buttons
04:26 AM nuxil: nice
04:26 AM day: wow my system is already 4years old
04:29 AM polprog: hmm i think my desktop is 4 or 5 years now
04:31 AM Emil: https://emil.fi/m/procoding.jpg
04:31 AM Emil: A colleague got me authentic Japanese professional coding socks
04:31 AM Haohmaru: wtf, almost pantyhose
04:34 AM nuxil: Emil, wtf. did you steal my shoos. i got a pair exatly like that.
04:34 AM nuxil: i got better taste in socks tho :p
04:35 AM polprog: lol
04:35 AM polprog: girly socks
04:35 AM polprog: on muscled thigs look bad
04:35 AM polprog: xD
04:40 AM nohitzzzz: and nuxil, it has also the power of the HV parallel programming. i have never used it myself tho, i havent had the need. once i managed to set the clock to external oscillator but i managed to rescue it with generating clock signal with stk500 pin
04:41 AM nuxil: i also have never had used for hvpp, i did once needed to do hspp on a atiny. but its good that it can do hvpp if needed for some reason.
04:42 AM nuxil: *highvoltage serial programming
04:42 AM nohitzzzz: yep
04:48 AM nohitzzzz: im so glad that atmel had been already chosen for the mcu supplier to our school when i went there. there were stk500's for everyone. it would have sucked if they were pics
04:48 AM Emil: nuxil: I love these shoes :D
04:49 AM nohitzzzz: TI for DSP kits and Altera for FPGA
04:51 AM nohitzzzz: i actually have 2 of them DPS kits, got them for free, and 1 altera kit, that one i accidently forgot to return after the course
04:51 AM nuxil: so you where familiar with avr when you started the school?
04:51 AM nohitzzzz: no
04:51 AM nohitzzzz: not at all
04:52 AM nohitzzzz: but because our schools selection, i became familiar, insted of, say pics
04:52 AM nuxil: "accidently forgot to return" by purpose i suspect :p
04:54 AM nohitzzzz: well maybe on purpose, but none of the teachers never asked about it. i think they were just glad that someone actually cared about the stuff they teached
04:57 AM nuxil: must be hard for teachers to teach a classes who are not interested or motivated to learn things or when only a few is interested in the subject to be thought.
04:57 AM nohitzzzz: the state of that department was pretty sad. and no it has been shut down, no more electronics. actualy there arent many schools that teach electronics anymore in finland.
04:57 AM Emil: Aalto :)
04:58 AM nuxil: most of electonic schools here is shutdown too, :(
04:58 AM nohitzzzz: most of the students just did nothing. just sat on their computer playing some flash game and not listening to the teacher at all
04:58 AM Emil: auts
04:58 AM Emil: sounds like yläaste
04:59 AM Emil: 7-9
04:59 AM nohitzzzz: yeah its mind baffleing
05:01 AM nuxil: in the old days.. you could actually fix stuff. and people would bring you stuff to fix. today. you get some fault on your tv. replace entire mobo. verry little toubleshooting. or if their radio gets broken, they just toss it away and buy a new one :( kind of sad. but with the evolution of electonics and show small it has become its also a problem to fix stuff.
05:03 AM polprog: [11:23] <nuxil> must be hard for teachers to teach a classes who are not interested or motivated to learn things or when only a few is interested in the subject to be thought.
05:03 AM polprog: this so much
05:04 AM nohitzzzz: true. but learning to fix electronics isnt that hard and its a skill everybody should aquire. just buy old broken stuff from ebay and try to fix them. my co-worker has started to learn to fix C64s.
05:04 AM polprog: heh
05:04 AM polprog: i fixed a ton of stuff
05:05 AM polprog: recently friends headphones . replaced broken jack
05:06 AM polprog: nowadays if you wanna learn electronics you either use the net or just go to uni
05:08 AM nohitzzzz: i have worked as an intern in 2 differnet "electronics repair shops". cant say that im good at it but i have fixed few things, and tracking the source of the problem is actually fun and interesting process
05:09 AM nuxil: 1 rule of troubleshooting. tau shall measure voltages
05:16 AM nohitzzzz: the guy who worked on the other shop was unbelivable guru. all he really used it was old analog multimeter, and he probed the pcbs very quickly so i couldnt even see or understand he did but he could fix anything. i guess that guys who learned electronics before microcontrollers became so good with analog stuff.
05:16 AM nuxil: hmm why would the avr ship start resetting it self if you setup interrupts wrong. im haveing my pin pc2 pc3 to trigger a interrupt.
05:17 AM nuxil: using DDRC &= ~(1 << PC2) & ~(1 << PC3); PCICR |= (1 << PCIE1); PCMSK1 |= ((1 << PCINT10) | (1 << PCINT11));
05:17 AM nuxil: but i by mistake named my isr ISR(PCINT2_vect) instead of ISR(PCINT1_vect)
05:17 AM nuxil: and the chip just sat there and rebooted itself all the time
05:25 AM Haohmaru: use BAD_ISR_vect
05:25 AM Haohmaru: or however it was named
05:25 AM nuxil: yea.
05:29 AM nuxil: but i have no need for it. it was a Bad isr due to human error :p
05:31 AM Haohmaru: you would've known it immediately if you had implemented BAD_ISR with a debug message or blink or beep
05:33 AM nuxil: well it took me less than 1 min to know something was wrong, and i already knew it was related to the isr as it was the last thing i addedbefore i flashed it.
05:36 AM polprog: from my assembly adventures i know that undefined isrs jump to bad jsr and in turn that jumps to reset vector
05:36 AM polprog: :D
05:37 AM nuxil: yea.. thats what the manual says
05:37 AM nuxil: If an unexpected interrupt occurs (interrupt is enabled and no handler is installed, which usually indicates a bug), then the default action is to reset the device by jumping to the reset vector.
05:38 AM nuxil: so i got my anwser :p
05:41 AM nuxil: i should rtfm more often :D
05:46 AM polprog: i rtfm when i found out about that
05:52 AM twnqx: what Haohmaru is referring to is overwriting the default BAD_ISR with your own code
05:53 AM Haohmaru: if you don't implement an ISR (say, for a USART, or TIMER, or anything) it points to this BAD_ISR
05:54 AM Haohmaru: if you implement THAT at least, you can put some debug codez in it
05:54 AM Haohmaru: or SUFFER TEH CONSEQUENCES
05:55 AM polprog: i know
05:56 AM polprog: uart_putsp(PSTR("Panic at the disco"));
05:58 AM Haohmaru: "Brown Alert! the captain has shat teh pants! Abandon ship!"
06:00 AM polprog: abandon chip*
06:00 AM polprog: :D
06:00 AM polprog: brown-out detector :P
06:00 AM nuxil: lol
06:02 AM polprog: nuxil: are you from funland?
06:02 AM polprog: i cant remember
06:02 AM nuxil: norway
06:03 AM polprog: oh
06:10 AM nuxil: time for a cup of coffee,
06:16 AM polprog: listening to some nice music
06:17 AM nuxil: heh, me too :p
06:17 AM nuxil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utGUd1w6ZiA just discovered that there is a music gener called electro swing, never heard about it before.
06:18 AM polprog: oh. yeah there is
06:18 AM polprog: its pretty characteristical
06:18 AM Haohmaru: you can't imagine how much music is created every second
06:18 AM nuxil: and 99% is crap :p
06:18 AM polprog: im listening to https://youtu.be/QEfOQiJD1lI
06:18 AM polprog: nuxil: ++
06:19 AM nuxil: that stuff i can listen to when i want to sleep :p
06:20 AM polprog: want something faster heh?
06:20 AM Haohmaru: nuxil how do you know?
06:20 AM nuxil: Haohmaru, ok IMO 99% is crap :)
06:20 AM Haohmaru: i could say that 80% of pop music is crap
06:20 AM Haohmaru: if not more
06:21 AM Haohmaru: but pop music is probably 1% or less of the total
06:21 AM nuxil: all geners have crap.
06:21 AM polprog: true
06:21 AM Haohmaru: you haven't even heard them all
06:21 AM polprog: i find cool music every day
06:21 AM Haohmaru: you physically can't
06:22 AM * polprog plays all tracks at once
06:22 AM polprog: insert expanding brain meme
06:22 AM Haohmaru: <omgwtfBOOOM.jpg>
06:22 AM polprog: omgwtfbbq
06:25 AM day: im trying to grasp how programs can use functions from other programs. lets say i have a small OS or just a simple bootloader on my chip that offers basic functionality (like display drawing functionality).
06:25 AM day: i know load a program during runtime from an sdcard into my flash. how can this program use functions from the OS or the bootloader?
06:26 AM day: s/i know/ i now
06:26 AM AndrevS: I suppose you could supply some function pointers to the functions you want to use
06:26 AM Thrashbarg: have a look at ABI's
06:27 AM day: abi or api?
06:27 AM Thrashbarg: ABI, Application Binary Interface
06:27 AM day: i see.
06:31 AM day: doesnt sound like something i would want to use.
06:31 AM Thrashbarg: k
06:32 AM Thrashbarg: how can this program use functions from the OS or the bootloader? <-- ah you need to specify an entry point to the OS and use a standard way for calling functions
06:33 AM AndrevS: My suggesting would be something like, your application has some init function, where you pass an array to function pointers in your os/boorloader)
06:33 AM day: but is that how it works in win/linux? i.e. my program is executed whenever it is linked to another external library this library is being loaded into ram the functionpointer jumps into it executes it and goes back to my program?
06:34 AM Haohmaru: afaik there's no dynamic linkage on teh avr
06:34 AM polprog: avr is a simple arch
06:34 AM day: i didnt know that requires hw support
06:34 AM Haohmaru: and if you're glueing different codez i think you should watch out for the build options of these codez
06:35 AM polprog: as far as i know, on the ti89 you just call a certain address
06:35 AM AndrevS: When you run a dynamically linked linux program, the program runs through /usr/lib/ld-2.27.so, which resolves the functions in libraries
06:35 AM day: yeah the wiki article on ABIs even says you need to use the same compilers everywhere otherwise it can cause issues
06:35 AM day: AndrevS: i see
06:36 AM polprog: you just need to specify a calling convention, simply put that means
06:36 AM AndrevS: Well... you need to keep your calling conventions the same, otherwise there will be trouble. Using the same compiler with the same options should make sure they're the same.
06:36 AM polprog: you just have one way of passing arguments
06:36 AM day: so i take it on most mcu i will be limited to passing function pointers around
06:36 AM polprog: no
06:37 AM polprog: you just load a program into memory. the program does 'call 0x1234' to run a function thats there
06:38 AM day: isnt that a funciton pointer?
06:38 AM polprog: tecnically yes
06:38 AM day: a hw address that is connected to a function
06:38 AM polprog: yeah.
06:39 AM day: gonna eat take a walk and think about it
06:39 AM polprog: i remember i have a book on programming one of the commodores. it has a listing of pointers to system functions there
06:40 AM polprog: neat stuff
06:44 AM polprog: have a nice walk
06:44 AM polprog: it just started to rain here with thundet
06:44 AM polprog: der*
06:52 AM polprog: typing sucks on qwerty on phone keyboard
06:52 AM polprog: but t9 doesnt help
06:53 AM Haohmaru: phone keyboard?
06:53 AM Haohmaru: x_x
06:53 AM Haohmaru: you mean you're rubbing a glass
06:53 AM Haohmaru: pretending it's a keyboard
06:54 AM polprog: yeah, thats right
06:54 AM polprog: not even rubbing, its poking
06:54 AM Haohmaru: i'd smash that thing immediately
06:54 AM Haohmaru: ehm, i'll "poke it with a hammer"
06:54 AM polprog: at my pc i use a cherry mx black keyboard
06:55 AM Haohmaru: i use rubber dome cheap-a$$ random no-brand keyboards
07:17 AM day: polprog: interesting. that sounds like what i had in mind. (the commodore example)
07:17 AM polprog: theres something called osdev wiki
08:13 AM polprog: im turning 18 on monday, having a party tomorrow
08:15 AM christner: Don't, stay young forever
08:15 AM Thrashbarg: agreed :P
08:15 AM christner: I didn't listen when they told me, I regret it
08:16 AM Thrashbarg: turned 31 in April here :/
08:20 AM * Haohmaru is even older
08:26 AM christner: Someone needs to get on with the cyborg research
08:26 AM Haohmaru: why? u wanna live forevah?
08:26 AM christner: No, I want to have an ISP built into my finger so I don't have so much desk clutter
08:27 AM christner: Or a desk for that matter
08:27 AM Haohmaru: ah, you gon' "think" some program and then "shove" it up the chip's butt?
08:27 AM Haohmaru: nice
09:21 AM polprog: https://xkcd.com/644/
09:34 AM Haohmaru: polprog that's (18+) ;P~
09:34 AM Haohmaru: close your eyes
09:34 AM polprog: what :D
10:38 AM polprog: pork neck with bread and egg(s) https://puu.sh/AsKyv/f8d24b3c6a.jpg
01:29 PM nuxil: polprog, simple dinner,, as me. neck kotteletta from pork, made on the bbq + potosalat.
01:30 PM nuxil: didnt want any green vegetables today :p meat + potato good enuf :p
01:34 PM polprog: KISS
01:34 PM polprog: i could fry some carrots or serve them as a salad tho
01:35 PM nuxil: mmm
01:37 PM nuxil: polprog, you shoud try get a job in norway now as youre soon leagal :p .
01:38 PM polprog: heh
01:39 PM nuxil: i mean
01:39 PM polprog: id take an uni first, takeaway
01:39 PM polprog: maybe then
01:39 PM polprog: maybe norway is the right direction
01:39 PM nuxil: not forever.. just a couple of years. beacuse. laory in norway is about 3-4 times higher than what it is in poland.
01:39 PM polprog: its on the wrong way of the mountain range
01:40 PM polprog: salary?
01:40 PM nuxil: you can save up a gread deal of money on a couple of years
01:40 PM polprog: sweden or funland, i could even sail there
01:40 PM polprog: i did to Karlskrona
01:40 PM nuxil: norway is better than both sweeden and findland with it comes to salory
01:41 PM nuxil: it in general higher
01:41 PM polprog: was a pretty nice place, this reminds me i should copy the photos over from the old phone
01:41 PM polprog: i guess
01:41 PM polprog: bbl
01:42 PM nuxil: many polish people come her to norway and just work for a couple of years,
01:43 PM nuxil: the save up a good deal of moeny then they go back home.
01:43 PM nuxil: if i had that oportunity i wold grab it.. but since i dont live in another conry i cant really do that., it be just vaca<tion.
01:46 PM nuxil: even scrubbing toilets in norway would equal the salory if a ceo or something in your contry.
01:46 PM nuxil: :p
01:47 PM nuxil: not ment as a offence.. its just that salory in norway is high,, but so is also tax and living conditions
01:51 PM Tom_itx is now known as Guest1963
01:53 PM nuxil: also there is many people from romania in norway doing the exact same. i came in contact with one guy named sorin. he was a work-aholic. he monthly salory was on around 90.000 Nkr per month while he was here. working 18hors per day. but he bough himself a big house and a nice nice card when he moved back to romania.
01:53 PM nuxil: *house & car
01:55 PM nuxil: 90K is insave even for a norwegina person, but this guy was focused on makeing as much $ before he moved back to romania.
01:57 PM nuxil: we got "strange" rules here in norway when it comes to workhours.. 8h normal payed. then overtime 50% extra. overtime more than 6hours 100% extra. plus we gor red days, if you work on a "red day" its all as 100% extra per hour.
01:58 PM nuxil: so i can understand why it lucrativefor foreigners
04:01 PM polprog: yeah salaries here arent so great
04:02 PM polprog: my father was selling holy pictures in finland during his studies for example
04:02 PM Emil: Holy shit
04:02 PM polprog: he studied in the netherlands though
04:02 PM Emil: I've had fun
04:02 PM Emil: Today 1730 till now
04:02 PM Emil: We had a sitsit
04:03 PM polprog: funland is +2 tinezone ?
04:03 PM polprog: whats a sitsit?
04:03 PM Emil: it was a small sitsit with just three commitees and AYY board+chairpeople
04:03 PM Emil: but holy shit
04:03 PM Emil: I
04:04 PM Emil: I've never had this good feeling
04:04 PM Emil: and fun
04:04 PM polprog: yeah but what was that lol
04:04 PM Emil: polprog: it's a "formal" (in that there's a way to do it)
04:04 PM Emil: party
04:04 PM Emil: there's a protoocl
04:04 PM polprog: oh nocice
04:04 PM Emil: protocol
04:04 PM polprog: noice*
04:04 PM thardin: it's been a while since I was at a sittning
04:05 PM polprog: ive had a friend come over, he just left
04:05 PM thardin: you get a bit used to it after 7-ish years studying
04:05 PM Emil: thardin: it is so much fun!
04:05 PM Emil: And especially today I've never had this good feeling
04:06 PM Emil: thardin: you should participate :)
04:06 PM polprog: holy fuck this was linked under sitsit wikipedia entry
04:06 PM polprog: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_boilersuit
04:06 PM thardin: there's a couple of bigger sittningar locally
04:06 PM polprog: i want one lol
04:06 PM thardin: umeå is a pretty big student town so
04:06 PM Emil: wtf
04:06 PM thardin: polprog: that reminds me that I have a ton of patches that I have neglected to sew on mine
04:06 PM Emil: boilersuite
04:07 PM Emil: it's usually called overals
04:07 PM Emil: overalls*
04:07 PM Emil: since it's haalarit
04:07 PM polprog: its like the ultimatr
04:07 PM thardin: ove
04:07 PM polprog: Ultimate
04:07 PM Emil: polprog: but yeah, those overalls are pretty common like that
04:07 PM polprog: i dont give a fuck suit
04:07 PM thardin: "splatter protection"
04:07 PM polprog: no standards. i love it
04:08 PM polprog: its better than the us army jacket we have
04:08 PM Emil: polprog: if you don't have haalarit in your uni
04:08 PM thardin: for formal events it can be combined with a suit
04:08 PM Emil: polprog: do start the tradition
04:08 PM Emil: it's _super_fun
04:08 PM polprog: "your uni"
04:08 PM Emil: polprog: I mean when you get into one ;)
04:08 PM polprog: the headteacher would not like this kind of apparel :D
04:08 PM polprog: i dont know which one i get into
04:08 PM Emil: polprog: it's not something you wear while in classes (usually)
04:08 PM polprog: i kinda guessed that
04:09 PM Emil: thardin: KTH?
04:09 PM thardin: actually, that tends to happen
04:09 PM thardin: I was at KTH too
04:09 PM thardin: it sucked
04:09 PM Emil: thardin: where did you stydy?
04:09 PM thardin: KTH, then UMU
04:09 PM polprog: Emil: what uni are you on
04:09 PM Emil: thardin: which section?
04:09 PM thardin: IT, then CS
04:09 PM polprog: in*
04:09 PM Emil: polprog: Aalto (formerly TKK)
04:09 PM polprog: k
04:10 PM thardin: part of the problem with IT @ KTH is that is in Kista rather than the central campus
04:10 PM Emil: thardin: ah, so you didn't participate in the party with the finnish electronics students, right?
04:10 PM Emil: thardin: aww
04:10 PM thardin: probably not
04:10 PM Emil: because it was really fun at KTH, except the Swedes suck at Sauna D
04:10 PM Emil: :D
04:10 PM thardin: also the stockholmites kept to their old gymnasium gangs
04:10 PM Emil: 60 degrees celcius
04:10 PM Emil: I was freezing
04:10 PM thardin: wat
04:11 PM Emil: and they were constantly throwing water
04:11 PM thardin: dum-dums
04:11 PM Emil: which kills the kiuas
04:11 PM thardin: I wanna make a sauna game one day
04:11 PM thardin: where the first "boss" is a bunch of swedes
04:11 PM thardin: the tutorial mission of course
04:12 PM Emil: haha :D
04:12 PM thardin: and then you have to carefully balance your liquid intake, where you sit in the sauna and so on
04:12 PM thardin: if you change from upper to lower bench after throwing water on the aggregat you lose of course
04:13 PM Emil: thardin: also my overalls are almost bare
04:14 PM Emil: I'm _super_lazy_ with sewin my patches on
04:14 PM thardin: boo!
04:14 PM thardin: I have qutie a few. all hand sewn
04:14 PM thardin: plus lots of parts swapped. extra arms even
04:15 PM Emil: thardin: Ikr :(
04:15 PM Emil: thardin: nice
04:15 PM thardin: I had to wash it once though, got a lot of blood on it
04:15 PM Emil: daaamn
04:16 PM Emil: How did that happen?
04:16 PM thardin: cut myself on a glass table that cracked due to värmeljus sitting directly on it
04:16 PM thardin: those little ones in aluminium cups
04:16 PM thardin: the only reason I cut myself is because the overall was a bit shorter on that leg from having cut a piece of the day before
04:16 PM thardin: off
04:17 PM Emil: damn
04:17 PM thardin: had to get stitches and everything
04:17 PM Emil: that sucks
04:17 PM thardin: nah, I was back at the student pub after the hospital visit
04:17 PM Emil: polprog: you _must_ do a student exchange
04:17 PM Emil: haha
04:18 PM thardin: good times :]
04:19 PM polprog: heh, ill try to get on one
04:19 PM Emil: polprog: It's too easy to put it off
04:20 PM Emil: polprog: iirc your uni was 3+2 years
04:20 PM Emil: polprog: do it first on your third year doing bachelors
04:20 PM Emil: and then on your second year of masters
04:20 PM Emil: at least third year of bachelors
04:21 PM polprog: how about i just come there after bachelors
04:21 PM thardin: I think the only bad part was how much of a dongfest the entire engineer section was. it's better these days
04:22 PM Emil: thardin: kek
04:22 PM Emil: thardin: it's always a sausage party
04:22 PM Emil: polprog: masters is fine
04:22 PM Emil: just do an exchange
04:22 PM thardin: tru
04:22 PM polprog: expertsexchange
04:22 PM thardin: I guess it's rather the segregation wrt say the medical or humanities students
04:23 PM polprog: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1opP7tNLzg
04:23 PM polprog: lol margaret thatcher as vocals
04:23 PM thardin: I think one of the engineering programs had a thing with the nurse program
09:02 PM Guest41456 is now known as gruetzkopf
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