#avr Logs

May 19 2018

12:38 AM day__ is now known as day
04:29 AM eimiar: 'morning
04:31 AM eimiar: so, yesterday still no communication with the avr https://pastebin.com/MF4qxfse
04:34 AM polprog: i guess you dont have an oscilloscope to look at the signals?
04:35 AM polprog: you can try troubleshooting your level shifter by writing a small program that sets the gpios low and high
04:35 AM polprog: and measure the voltages
04:35 AM polprog: like, set a pin low, press a key, set high etc
04:36 AM polprog: then just poke around the voltmeter
04:36 AM polprog: i can also suggest lowering the programming speed in avrdude
04:36 AM polprog: try adding '-B 200' to the options
04:36 AM polprog: or even -B 1000
04:37 AM polprog: this will slow down the data link speed
04:40 AM antto: eimiar how do you connect all that stuff?
04:40 AM polprog: oh if you are writing that test program dont forget to test if gpio inputs work properly
04:40 AM polprog: maybe a picture could tell us more
04:41 AM eimiar: antto, cables
04:41 AM antto: i have the impression that i saw a picture yesterday that had *nothing* connected to the reset pin
04:42 AM eimiar: well i checked the connections with a multimeter
04:42 AM eimiar: the reset pin is now connected to gnd
04:42 AM eimiar: through a 10k resistor
04:42 AM antto: le wat
04:42 AM antto: mega wat
04:42 AM eimiar: but i tried pulling it high too
04:43 AM polprog: stupid question, but is Pi gnd connected to breadboard gnd?
04:43 AM eimiar: it is
04:43 AM antto: okay, fiy, if you want to be doing avr ISP programming, you can't connect things randomly around
04:43 AM eimiar: antto, avr programming shouldn't be so aleatory
04:44 AM polprog: its not, raspi spidev is a hack like many things are
04:44 AM antto: yeah, it should just work, but yours doesn't ;P~
04:44 AM eimiar: exactly
04:44 AM polprog: do you think that openocd worked from the first try? that is programming stm32 from raspi gpio
04:44 AM polprog: :P
04:44 AM antto: why would you put a resistor to ground on the reset pin?!
04:45 AM eimiar: i'll try with raspbian stretch and see if something changes
04:45 AM polprog: eimiar: its a hardware problem
04:45 AM eimiar: :<
04:46 AM polprog: your level converter must be able to sink current, so it can pull the reset down
04:47 AM antto: where are you seeing that, polprog?
04:47 AM polprog: if it cant, you need to connect reset to gnd directly, not connecting it to anything else
04:47 AM polprog: antto: normal programmer pulls reset down
04:48 AM polprog: reset is usually pulled up with a 10-something k resistor
04:48 AM antto: normal programmer *controls* the reset pin
04:48 AM polprog: im telling you that you can do the whole programming in RESET state
04:48 AM polprog: i did that many times
04:48 AM antto: in the xmega case, the reset pin is used as PDI_CLK even
04:48 AM polprog: with dragon
04:48 AM polprog: ah, that clarifies stuff a bit
04:49 AM polprog: im talking plain ISP here, not PDI, not dE
04:49 AM polprog: dW*
04:49 AM antto: not a good idea to put GND directly onto the reset and connect a programmer
04:49 AM antto: nor VCC directly
04:49 AM eimiar_: i've lost some messages
04:49 AM eimiar_ is now known as eimiar
04:50 AM antto: but that's what you get when you listen to nuxil ;P~
04:50 AM * antto runs
04:50 AM polprog: antto: thats why i said not to connect programmer to reset
04:50 AM polprog: bbl
04:50 AM polprog: test if your setup brings reset down eimiar
04:50 AM antto: mmm, okay
04:51 AM eimiar: polprog, i've lost messages
04:51 AM nuxil: antto, i never said it was a good idea. where do you get that idea from ?
04:51 AM eimiar: where should i plug reset pin
04:51 AM nuxil: i even showed my awesome drawing skills with a resistor in there
04:51 AM eimiar: i'm following this guide http://www.instructables.com/id/Programming-the-ATtiny85-from-Raspberry-Pi/
04:51 AM polprog: eimiar: as usual to your converter, but measure the voktage on resrt pin
04:51 AM nuxil: eimiar, that guide works if you do it step by step.
04:53 AM eimiar: well shiieet :D
04:53 AM eimiar: that's why it wasn't working
04:53 AM eimiar: it's all right, you can facepalm me
04:53 AM antto: it's not written, but it looks like the reset pin is being controlled by the "programmer" on that picture
04:53 AM antto: so not sure why you're improvising
04:54 AM antto: r u trying to find some innovative way to program it? ;P~
04:54 AM eimiar: i assumed that when running the command "sudo gpio -g write 22 0" reset was pulled to ground
04:54 AM eimiar: and that's it
04:55 AM nuxil: btw. are you running avrdude with sude ?
04:55 AM nuxil: *sudo
04:55 AM antto: mm, and avrdude is built from source from some weird looking github account ;P~
04:56 AM nuxil: its possible you need that.. depends on what premissions is required to access /dev/spi...
04:56 AM antto: there is most probably a proper way to do that, running avrdude with sudo is dumb
04:57 AM eimiar: running as root
04:57 AM nuxil: even dumber :p
04:57 AM eimiar: ah come on, it's not a security risk xD
04:57 AM antto: example: to program my stuff via USB0 and/or parallel port - i add my user to the "dialout" group
04:57 AM antto: then no problem accessing those with avrdude
04:58 AM rue_bed: use ______to set the port permissions when they are created to a group your part of
04:59 AM antto: i read that 3 times and don't get it
04:59 AM eimiar: on that guide i posted before, step 2 says to write 0 on the reset pin, right?
04:59 AM eimiar: so if i connect the reset pin to gnd
05:00 AM antto: oh, the actual "programming guide" tells you to run everything with sudo
05:00 AM antto: NAIS \o/
05:00 AM eimiar: with a 10k resistor
05:00 AM eimiar: no... i shouldn't use a 10k resistor, right?
05:01 AM antto: ask polprog, your teacher
05:01 AM antto: oh he ran off
05:02 AM eimiar: i think that no current can flow from ground to pin, therefore no resistor is needed
05:02 AM eimiar: let's hope i'm right
05:02 AM nuxil: eimiar, remember.. if youre doing logic level shifting. that circuit is not you should have,, then basic idea where mosi->mosi yea but other than that. nop.
05:02 AM Thrashbarg: eimiar: is this the reset pin?
05:02 AM eimiar: Thrashbarg, yes
05:03 AM nuxil: eimiar, that circuit works for chips that can be programmed with 3.3v.
05:03 AM antto: eimiar what is the are you trying to program just this one chip, or are you trying to design a circuit with the chip and be able to also attach a programmer to that circuit?
05:03 AM nuxil: your could not
05:03 AM Thrashbarg: I'd recommend using a 10k resistor in case you want to connect a programmer to it in circuit
05:03 AM antto: nuxil wat? doesn't the attiny run on 3.3V?
05:04 AM eimiar: nuxil, i'm shifting levels with BJTs and resistors
05:04 AM antto: what levels?!
05:04 AM eimiar: you posted some level shifter yesterday
05:04 AM antto: okay, you are obviously not using the circuit from that webpage, you're doing something different
05:04 AM eimiar: 3.3 -> 5 bjt+res and 5 -> 3.3 voltage divider
05:06 AM eimiar: https://pastebin.com/fZgkmwEW
05:06 AM eimiar: maybe level shifters aren't working
05:06 AM nuxil: antto, ainty runs to down as low as 1.8v
05:06 AM nuxil: *85
05:06 AM antto: then what level shifters are we talking about?!
05:06 AM nuxil: hes not using atiny85
05:06 AM nuxil: m32 something
05:07 AM eimiar: antto, i'm using atmega32
05:07 AM antto: he's not showing a circuit diagram of what he's doing either
05:07 AM eimiar: right
05:07 AM antto: so we have to throw beans and look at the position of the planets and the zodiac to debug his problem
05:07 AM eimiar: i'll show you now
05:07 AM nuxil: eimiar, you need to make your own "stk200" programmer.. google: stk200 circuit and you get basic idea.
05:08 AM antto: fiy i use stk200 at home
05:08 AM nuxil: :D
05:09 AM antto: all you need is a computer with a parallel port and some wires, some series resistors are recommended
05:09 AM nuxil: yea. easyer to go down in voltage than up :p
05:09 AM antto: it can be made very cheap but you should just be careful so you don't fry your parallel port
05:10 AM antto: i think someone even posted an enhanced version of the stk200, less ghetto, with voltage buffers/protection
05:11 AM antto: https://i.imgur.com/EMZzUdq.jpg <- here's mine
05:11 AM antto: there's basically nothing in there, just 4 resistors on the signals, and a LED so i can see what's going on on the reset pin
05:18 AM nuxil: eimiar, i used a schmitt trigger as a logich level shifter. if you have one i jusggest you use one. just putting in a 1 transistor is a bad idea.
05:19 AM nuxil: if youre gonna use transistors atleast set them up in a schmitt trigger configuration.
05:19 AM nuxil: https://howtomechatronics.com/how-it-works/electrical-engineering/transistor-schmitt-trigger/
05:20 AM eimiar: this is my config https://ibb.co/nn3kQo
05:21 AM eimiar: this is the bjt i'm using http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/149/KSE13003-63678.pdf
05:21 AM nuxil: High Voltage Switch Mode Applications
05:21 AM nuxil: lol :p
05:22 AM eimiar: that should cover my application :P
05:22 AM nuxil: hmm alho. VBE(sat) 1.2 V max.
05:25 AM eimiar: isn't that ok?
05:25 AM nuxil: yea
05:25 AM nuxil: this transistor is overkill tho :p
05:26 AM nuxil: rated for max 1.5A :p
05:26 AM eimiar: :P
05:26 AM nuxil: thast like well over 1000 timer more than what you need :p
05:30 AM nuxil: you forgot to draw line to reset pin :p
05:31 AM nuxil: but yea.. if thats how its wired up.. then its time to get the logic analyzer and hook it up.
05:31 AM nuxil: if you dont have that poke around with a scope on the pins :p
05:34 AM eimiar: i'll check pedantically that every shifter works
05:34 AM eimiar: then i'll let you know
05:34 AM eimiar: bbl
05:34 AM nuxil: btw.. did you enable spi in your boot.txt file
05:35 AM nuxil: ?
05:35 AM nuxil: nm.. you must if you have spidev
06:22 AM antto: o_O
06:44 AM polprog: doing integrals on maths
06:44 AM polprog: looks like fun at times
07:04 AM Emil: joookei
07:04 AM Emil: I think it's time to move to vim
07:04 AM Emil: Fucking nano can't even regexpreplace , with \n
07:07 AM Emil: kek
07:07 AM Emil: I already forgot how it seems like a meme that there's "Help Uganda" on vim.org
07:07 AM Emil: and http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/uganda.html
07:10 AM polprog: thats nice of the dude to help those children
07:11 AM polprog: ive seen people joking that vim is ransomware because you can exit a screen telling you to give money
07:11 AM polprog: cant exit*
07:40 AM Emil: Wot
07:40 AM Emil: it really prompts you for something like that?
07:52 AM enh: hi
07:55 AM phipli: Could anyone point me in the direction of a bootloader that will work with an atmega128 and manual reset?
07:56 AM phipli: compatible with stk500 type programming
07:56 AM Emil: enh: hi
07:56 AM Emil: phipli: optiboot?
07:56 AM Emil: whatcha mean "manual reset"
07:56 AM phipli: no DTR reset
07:56 AM phipli: so I have to poke the reset button
07:57 AM phipli: and the bootloader waits long enough that I have time to set the upload waiting
07:57 AM phipli: basically the bootloader needs to wait for the computer for a few seconds, rather than ms
07:57 AM Emil: yes that's what most do already
07:58 AM Emil: optiboot should function just fine
07:58 AM phipli: do you know how long it stays in bootloader mode?
07:58 AM phipli: and possibly where I might tweak it in the source?
07:58 AM Emil: a second or two
07:59 AM Emil: just do avrdude ... and press the reset button
07:59 AM Emil: https://github.com/Optiboot/optiboot/wiki/HowOptibootWorks
08:00 AM phipli: thanks Emil, I'll give it another go
08:11 AM polprog: Emil: no the joke is that when you run vim without a file, it shows that
08:11 AM polprog: and vim is hard to exit for the noninitiated
08:12 AM polprog: :P
08:20 AM Emil: polprog: ah
08:20 AM Emil: true
08:20 AM polprog: coming home
08:20 AM polprog: i know how to do integrals now
08:21 AM polprog: at least the simple ones
08:21 AM polprog: :D
08:23 AM Emil: Good, good
08:49 AM TechChristoph: hi
08:50 AM Emil: Hi
08:56 AM TechChristoph: hi Emil
08:57 AM TechChristoph: i try to learn some avr-programming
08:57 AM Emil: TechChristoph: https://emil.fi/avr
08:57 AM TechChristoph: already made a pcb with kicad
08:57 AM TechChristoph: ok got that
08:58 AM TechChristoph: and after this
08:58 AM TechChristoph: i mean something to build up some knowledge
08:58 AM Emil: https://emil.fi/d/streamer.c
08:59 AM TechChristoph: if i don't know anything
08:59 AM TechChristoph: what does this programm ?
09:00 AM nuxil: antto, why the o_O ? i just checked up docs on the pi. spi is disabled by default. running raspi-config etc is just a gui for setting param in boot.txt (https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/spi/README.md)
09:00 AM Emil: TechChristoph: read the /avr
09:01 AM Emil: /d/streamer is just code you can use as example for ISRs and peripheral configs
09:03 AM TechChristoph: it makes the led start to blink
09:03 AM nuxil: TechChristoph, are you using avrdude ?
09:03 AM TechChristoph: yes
09:03 AM nuxil: here . read up on this :p https://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/
09:04 AM Emil: nuxil: that's not related to using or not using avrdude
09:04 AM polprog: there are avrdude snippets on there i think
09:04 AM Emil: and you really want to link this page https://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/index.html
09:04 AM nuxil: Emil, youre right.. i should have said.. avr-gcc
09:04 AM nuxil: TechChristoph, are you using avr-gcc ?
09:04 AM nuxil: :p
09:05 AM polprog: inb4 IAR-C
09:05 AM Emil: holy shit I'm put off by the ransomware
09:05 AM polprog: what ransomware?
09:06 AM Emil: polprog: vim
09:06 AM TechChristoph: i use avr-gcc
09:06 AM polprog: Emil: lol
09:06 AM TechChristoph: but i try to find some examples
09:06 AM polprog: what editor were you using?
09:06 AM nuxil: https://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/group__demos.html
09:06 AM TechChristoph: where i can build up my knowledge
09:07 AM Emil: nuxil: those are old as balls
09:07 AM nuxil: :(
09:07 AM Emil: TechChristoph: read /avr and play around with it
09:07 AM Emil: if you want project ideas
09:07 AM Emil: buy stuff from ebay and play around with them
09:07 AM polprog: TechChristoph: do you have any programming experience on computer?
09:07 AM polprog: computers*
09:08 AM polprog: those are like super low level tiny computers :P
09:08 AM nuxil: TechChristoph, what knowledge do you seek ?
09:08 AM polprog: you can learn a lot about computers from microcontrollers
09:08 AM nuxil: stuff with adc ? spi ? i2c ? etc .
09:08 AM TechChristoph: nuxil: maybe i should learn C first :) ?
09:08 AM Emil: yes
09:08 AM nuxil: :D
09:08 AM Emil: you must
09:08 AM TechChristoph: ok then
09:09 AM polprog: "must" such a not nice word
09:09 AM Emil: But since with microcontrollers
09:09 AM nuxil: and dont bother with C++
09:09 AM nuxil: go pure C
09:09 AM Emil: you don't have to learn the posix or linux api
09:09 AM polprog: you dont have to learn C to program micros technically xD
09:09 AM Emil: it's rather simple
09:09 AM Emil: and you can get started with just /avr
09:09 AM nuxil: no need for this crapy++ stuff.. you just get confused by its complexity :p
09:09 AM Emil: the compiler will warn you about broken syntax
09:10 AM Emil: But if you lack basic linux skills
09:10 AM Emil: then that's harder
09:10 AM polprog: you can also check out http://polprog.net/blog/serial/ after that TechChristoph
09:10 AM TechChristoph: but a good knowledge of c would help right ?
09:10 AM nuxil: yes it would
09:10 AM TechChristoph: but a good knowledge of c would help right ?
09:10 AM nuxil: verry much so
09:10 AM polprog: yeah, i was joking - that you can program them in assembly
09:10 AM polprog: but use C
09:10 AM polprog: its easier
09:11 AM polprog: less problematic and has more resources online
09:11 AM antto: nuxil "o_O" because i don't understand what's with all the level shifting when you can run that atmega on 3.3V instead
09:11 AM Emil: TechChristoph: http://2016-aalto-c.mooc.fi/en/home/index.html
09:11 AM polprog: antto: no he has the non-L version
09:11 AM nuxil: antto, not his atmega. it regired 4.5+
09:11 AM polprog: dinner, afk
09:11 AM nuxil: antto, it was not a L version
09:12 AM Emil: antto: 3.3v means max 12MHz (usually just 8MHz)
09:12 AM antto: wat!?
09:12 AM antto: he said "atmega32"
09:12 AM TechChristoph: ok
09:12 AM TechChristoph: mhm
09:12 AM antto: microshit's website says 2.7 to 5.5V
09:12 AM Emil: antto: you can't into microcontrollers?
09:12 AM Emil: kek
09:13 AM antto: Emil le wat?
09:13 AM nuxil: antto, http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/doc2503.pdf Operating Voltages -> 4.5V - 5.5V for ATmega32
09:13 AM Emil: antto: the mcu has an operational range of some voltage to some voltage, but the maximum clock will vary in that range
09:13 AM nuxil: 2.7V - 5.5V for ATmega32L
09:13 AM antto: i didn't see any clock on his circuit
09:14 AM Emil: antto: well if there's no external crystal or clock then the internal rc runs at max 8MHz
09:14 AM Emil: which is fine at 3.3v
09:14 AM nuxil: 3.3v is not fine if its a ATmega32
09:14 AM nuxil: ATmega32L is ok with that
09:15 AM antto: huh
09:15 AM Emil: and the winner is... NUXIL!
09:15 AM nuxil: :D i know right :p
09:15 AM antto: winner of what?
09:16 AM Emil: TechChristoph: anycase, you only need to learn the syntax of C
09:16 AM nuxil: winner of reading 1st page of datasheet :p
09:16 AM Emil: TechChristoph: no need to learn any memory management or advanced apis
09:16 AM Emil: TechChristoph: once you have that (and also basic linux skills), you can do the stuff mentioned in /avr
09:17 AM antto: microshit's website is so broken again
09:17 AM antto: it says 1.8-5.5V in the summary
09:17 AM Emil: to use the peripherals, read the Register Description sections in the datasheet of the peripherals that you want to use
09:17 AM Emil: and look at the avr-libc documentation and /d/streamer.c
09:19 AM Emil: TechChristoph: in actuality, doing the stuff in /avr requires you _only_ following the instructions in the page
09:20 AM Emil: and if you have your arduino board or other minimum development board with an avr
09:20 AM Emil: you can jump to section 4 directly
09:20 AM Emil: and read the PS
09:20 AM antto: why are you instructing a new guy to stay away from C++ ?
09:20 AM antto: what year is it?!
09:20 AM antto: why didn't ya tell him to go learn ASM instead
09:21 AM Emil: antto: because C++ is känser
09:21 AM antto: why?
09:21 AM Emil: and as the guy doesn't even know C
09:21 AM nuxil: antto, if you want to work with avr. and dont know what a int is. you start with basics.
09:21 AM antto: your logic is kinda wrong Emil
09:21 AM nuxil: and you can go to c++ later when you feel like C isnt doing it anymore for you
09:21 AM Emil: saying "go C++" is like telling him to learn the whole shit first
09:21 AM Emil: exactly
09:22 AM antto: nuxil are you saying "int" is a different thing in C++
09:22 AM antto: pls
09:22 AM nuxil: thats not what i said.
09:22 AM nuxil: pls stop twist my words.
09:22 AM Emil: antto: no, we are saying that C++ is a fucking minefield
09:22 AM nuxil: " and you can go to c++ later when you feel like C isnt doing it anymore for you"
09:22 AM antto: Emil saying "pick C" is not the same as "pick C and never look at C++"
09:22 AM Emil: antto: that's not what I said either
09:23 AM Emil: antto: nice zealotry :D
09:23 AM antto: my question is, why dafuq do you have to tell him to stay away from one of the options
09:23 AM Emil: because C is a) much better for this b) C++ is a god damn minefield
09:23 AM Emil: to use the C++ features requires him to actually know quite a lot
09:24 AM TechChristoph: i lost my connection
09:24 AM Emil: kek
09:24 AM Emil: :D
09:24 AM TechChristoph: is something wrong with the channel ?
09:24 AM polprog: ayyy
09:24 AM antto: no, Emil
09:24 AM Emil: https://emil.fi/m/2018-05-19_16-49-00_QrPc7ace.png
09:24 AM polprog: thats a good question TechChristoph
09:24 AM antto: you can use C++ and write boring code with it too
09:24 AM nuxil: TechChristoph, language fight C vs C++ :p
09:24 AM Emil: TechChristoph: https://emil.fi/m/2018-05-19_16-49-22_T0AiMaHP.png
09:24 AM Emil: These two pictures have the log
09:24 AM TechChristoph: ok
09:25 AM Emil: later one is first in time
09:25 AM polprog: Emil: not using nickcolor.pl?
09:25 AM Emil: polprog: naw
09:25 AM TechChristoph: C versus C++
09:25 AM polprog: what are you on, VT100
09:25 AM Emil: polprog: I was supposed to do a modern irssi config like back in 2014 :D
09:25 AM antto: you will even get a little bit more warnings if you write lousy code in C++ mode
09:25 AM nuxil: and C wins every time as a into language for noobs :p
09:25 AM Emil: polprog: but someehow I just never got to it :D
09:25 AM polprog: heh
09:25 AM TechChristoph: maybe binary coding wins
09:25 AM Emil: polprog: just Windows - Putty on tray - Linux - screen - irssi
09:27 AM TechChristoph: im just a noob
09:27 AM nuxil: TechChristoph, well.. you can use asm fine if you like. several people in here are real good at it.. but they only come out when the moon is full
09:27 AM TechChristoph: in many fields
09:27 AM Emil: TechChristoph: anycase, you can directly proceed with /avr to just get the basics rolling as it only requires you to follow instructions. After that read the polprogs serial guide, avr-libc documentation, buy stuff from ebay to mess around with and look at /d/streamer.c
09:27 AM Emil: also read the Register descriptions for the peripherals you want to use
09:28 AM polprog: hmm my regex didnt catch 'polprogs'
09:28 AM polprog: need to tweak it
09:28 AM antto: TechChristoph you can simply put -std=C++11 to yer compiler settings quietly, and still follow these guys' boring instructions and C code examples
09:28 AM polprog: lol
09:28 AM Emil: kek
09:28 AM TechChristoph: but first i learn c
09:28 AM Emil: (y)
09:28 AM nuxil: yes
09:28 AM antto: just don't tell them, so they don't rage
09:28 AM TechChristoph: ok
09:28 AM antto: *wink*
09:28 AM nuxil: because datasheet is aslo full of C examples you can use.
09:29 AM TechChristoph: thanks
09:29 AM nuxil: like spi etc.
09:29 AM Emil: spi is so fucking fluffy I love it
09:29 AM antto: YEAH, NUXIL, and you CAN'T use those examples in C++ mode duh
09:29 AM nuxil: you miss the point. dont get angry :p
09:29 AM Emil: except when it only mentions in passing the issues with CS
09:29 AM Emil: SPCR=settings, SPDR=data, SPSR for status <3
09:31 AM phipli: Emil : I've loaded optiboot into the board with the status LED set up
09:31 AM phipli: it flashes three times, pauses, then repeats
09:32 AM phipli: is this normal behaviour, or is it resetting itself for some reason?
09:32 AM Emil: phipli: try uploading code
09:32 AM TechChristoph: what is optiboot ?
09:32 AM phipli: (I've not loaded anything else in yet (not recognising the board))
09:32 AM phipli: TechChristoph, a serial bootloader for AVRs
09:32 AM polprog: no payload - it just loops
09:32 AM TechChristoph: ok
09:32 AM Emil: phipli: to get the optiboot working you must a) burn the bootloader b) burn the fuses
09:33 AM Emil: phipli: there's a 1 second timeout
09:33 AM Emil: for external reset
09:33 AM phipli: Emil : I'll double check the fuses
09:33 AM Emil: polprog: *
09:33 AM TechChristoph: my goal is to get some sensor outputs to my pc's terminal
09:33 AM polprog: Emil: what
09:33 AM TechChristoph: maybe i should use a serial cable
09:33 AM polprog: ah timeout
09:33 AM polprog: i see
09:33 AM polprog: yeah i guessed there was no payload
09:34 AM TechChristoph: or some ttl
09:34 AM Emil: phipli: don't burn the external crystal fuses until you've confirmed that your other fuses and bootloader are fine :D
09:34 AM Emil: phipli: or you'll need a crystal for it to work
09:34 AM Emil: TechChristoph: what hardware do you have
09:34 AM nuxil: antto, C++ is a fine language. but starting off wit C++ as a 1st language when you can barly script is a huge step. google for example and you get tonz of crap with strange includes/header etc. C++ is a huge and complex language and got many many pitfall and can be overwhelming. C keeps it rather down to the basics. and you have really no need for complex solutions on example atiny13 . esp when you have 0 clue about either of them :p
09:34 AM polprog: Emil: a bootloader with a command line would be cool, like OpenFirmware bootloades on SPARC computers
09:34 AM phipli: Emil, got a crystal connected (was using internal 8mhz instead, but unsoldered the 7.3xxmhz crystal to reduce the unknowns)
09:35 AM phipli: now have a 16mhz crystal connected in a socket
09:35 AM polprog: c++ on an attiny13 thats pretty fucking hardcof
09:35 AM Emil: phipli: rememver the capacitors
09:35 AM polprog: hardcore*
09:35 AM nuxil: :D
09:35 AM phipli: Emil : it is a devboard - already there. Otherwise I'd just wire up DTR for resets
09:35 AM polprog: is that the one attiny that hasnt got RAM?
09:35 AM antto: polprog why?
09:35 AM Emil: phipli: alrigh
09:35 AM Emil: phipli: waaaiit
09:36 AM TechChristoph: Emil: at the moment i have a atmega328p, a 16mhz crystal and a usbasp pogrammer
09:36 AM polprog: antto: not much ram
09:36 AM Emil: phipli: you are not trying to program the device through usb or serial, right?
09:36 AM antto: polprog why does C++ equal "more ram usage" ?
09:36 AM phipli: Emil - I am, but I'm flashing it with a real stk500 atm
09:36 AM phipli: to get the bootloader in
09:36 AM Emil: phipli: ah good
09:36 AM phipli: :)
09:36 AM polprog: antto i mean that its even hard in C
09:36 AM phipli: reasonable question :)
09:36 AM TechChristoph: and some leds and sensors
09:36 AM Emil: because some months ago we had an idiot here who was trying to do fuses through a serial port
09:36 AM Emil: :D
09:37 AM polprog: TechChristoph: what kind/name of devboard is that
09:37 AM Emil: and it took like 2 hours of debugging and helping
09:37 AM TechChristoph: no devboard
09:37 AM Emil: TechChristoph: if you have a bare m328p and a 16MHz crystal
09:37 AM TechChristoph: just pure hardware and a breadboard
09:37 AM antto: polprog did you see my example of a function that calculates and sets the "best" settings for a given bitrate on a UART?
09:37 AM TechChristoph: yes i have
09:37 AM Emil: TechChristoph: do you have the two capacitors for the crystal?
09:37 AM polprog: antto: no i havent
09:37 AM TechChristoph: yes i got them
09:38 AM antto: polprog i challange you to write an equivalent one in C
09:38 AM antto: ;P~
09:38 AM polprog: look im not saying that Cpp in microcontrollers is evil, i wish i had time and drive to learn ins and outs of c
09:38 AM Emil: TechChristoph: do you have a usb to serial (ttl) cable?
09:38 AM TechChristoph: no i haven't
09:39 AM Emil: TechChristoph: then you kinda can't get data to your terminal from the avr
09:39 AM TechChristoph: ah ok
09:39 AM Emil: you can modify the usbasp firmware to do all sorts of stuff
09:39 AM Emil: but that's beyond me
09:39 AM Emil: right now
09:39 AM TechChristoph: so every time i have to use the ttl-cable
09:39 AM polprog: and a usb ttl dongle costs nothing
09:39 AM TechChristoph: but fir production thats kinda expensive isn't it ?
09:39 AM Emil: eh?
09:40 AM Emil: you are not making a product with these skills, now are you not? :D
09:40 AM TechChristoph: ok
09:40 AM TechChristoph: :)
09:40 AM Emil: TechChristoph: four ways your mcu can talk to outside: uart (serial), spi, i2c and parallel
09:41 AM Emil: Most readily available is uart
09:41 AM Emil: and to connect that to a computer
09:41 AM Emil: usb to serial converter
09:41 AM polprog: this ^
09:41 AM Emil: the usbasp programmer is just a programmer
09:42 AM Emil: TechChristoph: if you have a raspi you can use the gpio and peripherals it has to get data to your terminal, though
09:42 AM TechChristoph: ok
09:42 AM nuxil: dont reccoment that
09:42 AM Emil: TechChristoph: but if right now you only have your usbasp, a bare m328p and some passives, you can just blink leds
09:42 AM nuxil: seems people only have problems getting it to work. except me :p
09:43 AM nuxil: maybe polprog has it working too. idk.
09:43 AM TechChristoph: Emil: that i did allready
09:43 AM Emil: TechChristoph: if you are in a school lab just ask for a usb to serial converter
09:43 AM Emil: they'll have some
09:43 AM polprog: nuxil: i have one working but with openocd and jtag
09:43 AM TechChristoph: and for a product
09:43 AM Emil: if this is just at home messing then goto your favourite chinkshit store and order
09:43 AM Emil: TechChristoph: kek
09:44 AM TechChristoph: kek ?
09:44 AM Emil: TechChristoph: if you are making a product I recommend outsourcing this to someone who actually knows his shit to get quick and quality results in a reasonable timeframe for some money
09:44 AM polprog: kek = expression of laughter in 4 chan speak
09:44 AM TechChristoph: ok
09:44 AM Emil: if you don't value your time highly and your product can wait then sure, figure it out yourself
09:44 AM nuxil: isnt kek russian for "what" or something ?
09:44 AM Emil: I can also offer consulting for a fixed price :D
09:45 AM Emil: polprog: hey now, it's not 4 chin originally
09:45 AM polprog: nuxil: what in russian is shto iirc,
09:45 AM polprog: Emil: yeah i knoe
09:45 AM polprog: know*
09:45 AM Emil: polprog: iirc it's originally from starcraft kekeke
09:45 AM eimiar: well, i don't know what else to do...
09:45 AM Emil: which then morphed to kek
09:45 AM Emil: with s4s
09:45 AM nuxil: hey
09:45 AM Emil: /s4s
09:45 AM Emil: /s4s/
09:46 AM nuxil: eimiar, did you enable spi in boot.txt ?
09:46 AM Emil: eimiar: hey
09:46 AM eimiar: hey everyone
09:46 AM nuxil: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/spi/README.md
09:46 AM phipli: Emil : cheers - must have had a fuse wrong somewhere
09:46 AM eimiar: nuxil, spi enabled
09:46 AM phipli: works now
09:46 AM * phipli does a little dance
09:46 AM Emil: phipli: what board did you have btw
09:46 AM Emil: also good job
09:47 AM phipli: Emil, https://www.ebay.com/itm/200949695738
09:47 AM phipli: arrived this week
09:48 AM phipli: looking for something to teach my nephew with, but to be honest, this isn't it
09:48 AM Emil: phipli: wtf
09:48 AM Emil: why did you buy something like that.D
09:48 AM Emil: phipli: delete this nephew
09:48 AM phipli: curiosity :)
09:49 AM Emil: phipli: just buy like some arduino unos to use as minimum development boards, some breadboards, some leds, passives, jumper cables, whatever modules or components and play around
09:49 AM eimiar: nuxil, these are the connections i made https://ibb.co/nn3kQo
09:50 AM Emil: phipli: that board is intimidating (and also boring) as fuck :D
09:50 AM antto: polprog, https://godbolt.org/g/WDnicn
09:50 AM phipli: Emil, yeah - he'll have arduinos coming out of his ears
09:50 AM antto: let's see how you do this in C
09:50 AM Emil: phipli: nonono
09:50 AM Emil: phipli: only the boards
09:50 AM Emil: phipli: no arduino ide anywhere
09:50 AM Emil: phipli: or arduino libs
09:51 AM phipli: his dad builds machines for adverts / film
09:51 AM Emil: remember that
09:51 AM polprog: antto: i wish i had time lol
09:51 AM nuxil: eimiar, you reset ?
09:51 AM eimiar: https://ibb.co/gkCDd8
09:51 AM polprog: oh god its one of the huge boards
09:51 AM Emil: ohshitnigger that's the oldest version there is, right? :D
09:51 AM nuxil: wow.. such antennas :p
09:52 AM polprog: haha nice kit eimiar
09:52 AM polprog: Emil: jesus that avr board. huge
09:52 AM eimiar: https://ibb.co/bHSPko
09:52 AM eimiar: https://ibb.co/cWXqQo
09:52 AM polprog: bbl, need to visit home depot
09:52 AM eimiar: :D
09:52 AM eimiar: don't mind my bare feet
09:52 AM Emil: eimiar: I don't see remotely enough wires going into the avr
09:52 AM nuxil: ok so you just tie reset to ground.
09:52 AM antto: polprog okay, check the ASM that comes out of that
09:53 AM polprog: antto: sure
09:53 AM antto: so what do you think? do you think you can write an equivalent thing in C?
09:54 AM nuxil: eimiar, loosen "up plug the reset and put it back again" also is this a salvaged atmega32 that has had a crystal ?
09:54 AM antto: i've heard that C is "faster" than C++
09:54 AM polprog: antto: probably not
09:54 AM antto: so it should be easy, right?
09:54 AM antto: wait, what? ;P~
09:54 AM eimiar: nuxil, salvaged chip didn't have an xtal
09:54 AM polprog: inb4 i just set UBRR to a macro calculated in the makefile
09:55 AM Emil: eimiar: again, I don't see remotely enough wires going into the avr for spi programming
09:55 AM nuxil: eimiar, but are you sure it was driven by the internal RC? a chip can still need a clock source even if no crystal there. something else can be driving it.
09:55 AM antto: polprog sure, let's see how you do that
09:55 AM polprog: off , buying drills and shit
09:55 AM antto: but why not do it in C?
09:56 AM eimiar: Emil, how many (and which) more wires do you expect for SPI programming?
09:56 AM antto: i thought C is a decent language, and very fast
09:56 AM Emil: eimiar: six
09:56 AM antto: like, as fast as ASM
09:56 AM nuxil: antto, if you want to run slow code in C ask me.. want fast code in C ask linus torvals :p
09:56 AM Emil: eimiar: six wires into the avr to do spi programming
09:56 AM eimiar: Emil, ok, which are?
09:56 AM Emil: eimiar: and once you have that, 5 wires for uart programming
09:57 AM Emil: eimiar: didn't we go through this yesterday?
09:57 AM Emil: or something
09:57 AM Emil: :D
09:57 AM Emil: VCC, GND, RST, MOSI, MISO, SCK
09:57 AM Emil: and for uart programming with a bootloader: VCC, GND, DTR, RX, TX
09:57 AM eimiar: Emil, they are already plugged in O.o
09:57 AM eimiar: i've posted diagram and picture
09:58 AM eimiar: diagram -> https://ibb.co/nn3kQo picture -> https://ibb.co/bHSPko
09:58 AM nuxil: eimiar, did you mesure and see if signal is present ?
09:58 AM Emil: eimiar: in the picture why don't I see direct connections
09:58 AM eimiar: nuxil, i only have a multimeter i can measure dc voltages
09:59 AM Emil: eimiar: bruh, just use 3.3v
09:59 AM nuxil: eimiar, example scl has 1/2 duty so it should read as 1/2 the 3.3v Vcc voltage or something
09:59 AM eimiar: Emil, atmega32 needs 5V
09:59 AM nuxil: Emil, we been over this
09:59 AM nuxil: his chip doesnt work on 3.3v
09:59 AM Emil: ah this was that board
09:59 AM Emil: but the fuck is that level shifter
10:00 AM eimiar: someone posted it yesterday xD
10:00 AM Emil: for 5v to 3.v3 it's just a divisor
10:00 AM nuxil: 3.3v to 5 from PI
10:00 AM eimiar: i don't remembed who
10:00 AM Emil: for 3.3v to 5v you do this
10:01 AM nuxil: eimiar, dont you have a shmitt trigger ?
10:01 AM antto: nuxil so, can YOU write an equivalent function in C?
10:01 AM eimiar: nuxil, no
10:02 AM nuxil: antto, we cant tell.. im not gonna try. as i dont have you experiance in coding and not gonna waste my time on that :p
10:02 AM Emil: oh it wekrs
10:02 AM Emil: whatever
10:03 AM Emil: eimiar: you are missing the reset
10:03 AM eimiar: Emil, reset is tied to gns
10:03 AM eimiar: gnd
10:03 AM Emil: and you don't need to connect the avcc
10:03 AM Emil: or agnd
10:03 AM antto: huh
10:03 AM Emil: eimiar: your programmer should control reset
10:04 AM eimiar: my programmer is raspberry pi
10:04 AM Emil: yes
10:04 AM Emil: your programmer should control reset
10:04 AM nuxil: dedicate a pin for reset
10:04 AM eimiar: ok hold on
10:04 AM TechChristoph: is there a ide for linux ?
10:04 AM TechChristoph: to programm avr-chips ?
10:04 AM Emil: TechChristoph: your favourite text editor
10:05 AM TechChristoph: ok
10:05 AM eimiar: fuck, i'd need another level shifter
10:05 AM nuxil: you need smaller transistors :p
10:06 AM Emil: eimiar: you only need two resistors
10:06 AM eimiar: i have one of these https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/BC337-D.PDF
10:06 AM nuxil: nice
10:06 AM eimiar: Emil, reset pin is an input
10:07 AM Emil: don't matter
10:07 AM eimiar: uh huh
10:07 AM antto: TechChristoph i use Code::Blocks
10:07 AM Emil: also, it'll probably work just fine on 3.v3
10:07 AM eimiar: so if my rpi drives to 3.3V
10:07 AM Emil: 3v3
10:07 AM eimiar: datasheet doesn't agree on that
10:07 AM nuxil: operating out of specs.. nothing guaranteed
10:07 AM TechChristoph: Emil: ok i try that one
10:08 AM Emil: eimiar: waitwaitwait
10:09 AM Emil: eimiar: you really only need a single resistor divider
10:09 AM Emil: for MISO
10:09 AM Emil: everything else you should be able to drive directly from 3.3v
10:10 AM eimiar: Emil, you should take a look at ATmega32 datasheet
10:10 AM eimiar: page >285
10:10 AM eimiar: VIL/VIH and VOL/VOH
10:11 AM Emil: don't care, should still work
10:11 AM Emil: If it doesn't then use the level shifters
10:11 AM eimiar: i really don't understand why it should, care to explain?
10:12 AM Emil: eimiar: if you have a normal diode you can also just put that in series with the power supply to drop it to in spec area
10:13 AM eimiar: oh because 0.6*Vcc = 3V
10:13 AM eimiar: you know maybe you're right
10:13 AM Emil: of course I'm right
10:13 AM eimiar: reset pin is the only one that needs 0.95 VCC
10:13 AM eimiar: * 0.9VCC
10:14 AM Emil: then put a transistor there
10:14 AM eimiar: ok so i put voltage divider on MISO
10:14 AM eimiar: SCK and MOSI direct connection
10:14 AM Emil: with resistor from 5v to rst, transistor collector to rst, emitter to gnd, resistor from raspi gpio to base
10:14 AM Emil: eimiar: yeah
10:15 AM eimiar: Emil, this one? bottom/left part https://ibb.co/nn3kQo
10:16 AM eimiar: 3.3V logic = rpi gpio
10:16 AM eimiar: and 5V logic = reset pin
10:17 AM Emil: eimiar: it depends on how you configure the raspberry pi programmer
10:17 AM nuxil: you have checked that the reset pin is working ? by manualy tesed it ?
10:17 AM nuxil: erm never mind
10:17 AM Emil: s/raspberry pi programmer/avrdude settings
10:18 AM wpo_ is now known as wpo
11:00 AM eimiar: ufffff
11:00 AM eimiar: so frustrating
11:04 AM Emil: eimiar: while it should be easy to use a raspi, it's still on you :D
11:04 AM Emil: buy a usbasp for ease of development
11:04 AM Emil: ; )
11:22 AM TechChristoph: i found avr4linux
11:22 AM TechChristoph: i try that one
11:41 AM rue_: there is a person verry eager to find a howto and get off the internet
11:51 AM eimiar: hurray!!!
11:52 AM eimiar: avr device initialized and ready to accept instructions
11:52 AM eimiar: :DDDDDDDDD
11:52 AM eimiar: i don't remember who wrote it
11:52 AM eimiar: but there was an xtal to plug
11:52 AM eimiar: :|
11:52 AM eimiar: and i didn't plug it
11:54 AM Thrashbarg: oops lol
11:56 AM nuxil: congrats :p
11:56 AM antto: rue_, here's a challange for your black magic macros: https://godbolt.org/g/WDnicn
01:27 PM nohitzzzz: dude if you have to write that much code for setting a baud rate, it feels a bit counterintuitive
01:36 PM TechChristoph: hi all
01:48 PM hetii: hi :)
01:48 PM hetii: I create such psu, https://snag.gy/EZbFB5.jpg but have some issue with my r2r dac. it have 12 bits so I increment value for it from 0 to 4095, I notice that the voltage on Q1 gate is increase but not linear, so each time when value is a factor of 2 so like 4,8,16,32,64,128.. etc the voltage is a bit lower then from previously value
01:48 PM hetii: So for example: when I store value 255 (0b11111111) I got 0.333mV and for value 256 (0b10000000) I got 0.323mV
02:03 PM polprog: thats just the thing about r2r dacs
02:03 PM polprog: i think
02:03 PM polprog: they are notlinear
02:05 PM polprog: also id put a resistor between txd pin and optocoupler input
02:05 PM polprog: to limit the led current
02:07 PM polprog: you mean 0.333 V :p
02:15 PM hetii: yep
02:16 PM hetii: ok so you mean that it works fine?
02:16 PM hetii: and I should then try to fix it on software side to be more linear?
02:39 PM polprog: you could tyr adding offsets etc
02:39 PM polprog: but i have no idea how to fix that on the software side
02:49 PM Emil: antto: nohitzzzz said it well
02:49 PM Emil: that's an absurd amount of code for setting baudrate
02:52 PM Emil: hetii: you should also buffer your dac output. But like polprog said, resistor ladder dacs are prone to nonlinearity
02:54 PM polprog: just get a dac chip
02:55 PM Emil: yeah
02:55 PM Emil: also don't get the shittiest dac
02:57 PM hetii: well. I have already my psu board made and assembly so try to see if it will works fine or not
02:57 PM polprog: what do you think about this car
02:57 PM polprog: they want $10k
02:57 PM polprog: https://otomotopl-imagestmp.akamaized.net/images_otomotopl/881522362_10_1080x720_victoria-interceptor-v8-46-223-km-radiowoz-usa-po-oplatach-.jpg
02:58 PM hetii: polprog, If you whant to be sheriff :)
02:58 PM hetii: why not
02:58 PM hetii: :)
02:58 PM polprog: i will be driving it through warsaw and blasting chiptune and 90's trance from the windows
02:58 PM polprog: i want one
02:58 PM polprog: id just need to make a licence first
02:59 PM polprog: should get around doing it during holidays
03:00 PM antto: nohitzzzz, SetAsyncRateOptimal<230400, F_CPU, 0> { &UCSR0A, &UCSR0C, &UBRR0 };
03:00 PM antto: is that so much? ;]
03:01 PM nohitzzzz: no, but that's not all
03:02 PM nohitzzzz: you had to write all that code
03:02 PM antto: that's the actual useful bit, the other stuff goes into a header
03:02 PM nohitzzzz: it would have taken 5 sec to use a calc and hardcode the values
03:02 PM antto: you write it once, then you forget about it
03:02 PM polprog: look at him, having all this precious disk space for headers
03:02 PM polprog: maybe you will tell us now that you have a COLOR monitor, eh?
03:02 PM polprog: kids those days!
03:03 PM polprog: spoilt brats!
03:04 PM antto: the C gangster team is strong
03:05 PM nohitzzzz: dude im not C ganster, i just made a point that it might be counterintuitive
03:05 PM nohitzzzz: which it is
03:06 PM antto: i can still go to the website and use the calculator and then paste some values into the code
03:06 PM antto: ..and remember to do that again if i need another bitrate or if i change F_CPU
03:07 PM antto: or, use the f*cking computer to do the computing for me ;P~
03:07 PM antto: you know, computers tend to be better at remembering simple things and calculating stuff
03:09 PM hetii: polprog, thats my DAC voltage output https://pastebin.ca/4030162
03:09 PM hetii: so depending on the value the offset is not static
03:11 PM hetii: General I wonder how such PSU will work, I read that is important from PSU to have "fast response" but what actually it means?
03:12 PM hetii: For example when I compare such designe to psu that use for ex OPams
03:12 PM hetii: like lm 358 or any other similar.
03:13 PM hetii: also I wonder if such "software" psu can self oscilate like it can happen when use opams
03:13 PM Emil: antto: why not hardcode a table then
03:13 PM Emil: >:D
03:13 PM antto: how big?
03:13 PM antto: mr smartpants
03:14 PM antto: where's that table gonna be?
03:15 PM polprog: antto: why, do you think, emil is writing code for external eprom :DD
03:16 PM antto: great, that would be sooooo efficient
03:18 PM polprog: push address (from an internal lookup table), strobe, read the value, move to UBRR
03:19 PM polprog: flawless
03:19 PM nohitzzzz: this isnt a question about C or C++ or code effiency, its about common sense. do i need a complicated computer program to solve this simple problem?
03:20 PM polprog: its just about your requrements
03:20 PM polprog: if you know that the chip runs with X MHz clock, you just hardcore Y into UBRR
03:20 PM polprog: hardcode*
03:20 PM antto: i don't know, but i hate writing the values to set bitrates of USARTs and periods of timers
03:21 PM polprog: just design stuff appropriately
03:22 PM Emil: antto: you hate doing UBRR=x;
03:22 PM Emil: ?
03:22 PM antto: the xmega usart clock generator has more parameters
03:23 PM antto: coz "fractional baudrate generator"
03:23 PM antto: Emil i hate having to manually punch some constant there
03:23 PM antto: instead of just clearly having the f*cking bitrate written
03:24 PM polprog: i just use the formula from the datasheet along with a macro and let the compiler work that out
03:24 PM Emil: antto: then use the macro constboi
03:24 PM polprog: but as i understand you want it to choose best setting
03:24 PM antto: what macro?
03:24 PM polprog: lowest eror rate
03:24 PM antto: polprog yeah, who doesn't?
03:25 PM antto: the macrobois?
03:37 PM Ameisen: I haven't had a chance to work on GCC the last few days :
03:37 PM Ameisen: :(
03:37 PM Ameisen: Had to print something for my wife that was cylindrical
03:37 PM Ameisen: which my printer sucks at
03:38 PM Ameisen: so I've been tinkering with my gcode compiler to get it to generate arc commands
03:38 PM Ameisen: that delved me into a bunch of complex math that has been... frustrating.
03:38 PM Ameisen: because I've also had a severe sinus infection so myhead isn't... quite there.
04:37 PM polprog: damn
04:37 PM polprog: Emil: can you help me out here
04:37 PM polprog: i cant build any program from source becuase it keeps shitting itself on texinfo
04:37 PM Emil: polprog: hm?
04:37 PM Emil: polprog: whatcha trying to do
04:37 PM polprog: compile insight
04:38 PM Emil: =is?
04:38 PM polprog: some GDB gui in Tcl
04:38 PM polprog: https://paste.debian.net/1025426/
04:38 PM polprog: but whatever i try to build (any other program)
04:39 PM polprog: make just errors out on building info or some similar target
04:39 PM polprog: and i dont know what to look for
04:39 PM Emil: did you autoconf and configure?
04:39 PM polprog: yeah
04:39 PM polprog: ./configure
04:39 PM polprog: as readme says
04:39 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/m/2018-05-20_00-04-33_ncKWi3IQ.png
04:39 PM Emil: first autoconf
04:40 PM Emil: then configure
04:40 PM polprog: how do i run autoconf?
04:40 PM phipli: .configure
04:40 PM phipli: ?
04:41 PM Emil: autoconf
04:41 PM polprog: ok, did that
04:41 PM polprog: then did ./configure
04:41 PM polprog: lets try now
04:41 PM polprog: ./configure says i have makeinfo
04:41 PM polprog: damn
04:41 PM polprog: same
04:42 PM Emil: https://sourceware.org/git/?p=insight.git here's the latest source btw
04:42 PM polprog: let me try
04:42 PM polprog: i downloaded from their FTP
04:42 PM polprog: ugh... repository not found?
04:43 PM polprog: okay, cloning
04:43 PM Emil: check the readme
04:43 PM polprog: doing that rn
04:43 PM polprog: ill follow it
04:44 PM polprog: and bother you if it fails ;)
04:44 PM Emil: https://github.com/monnerat/insight
04:45 PM polprog: okay, forgot to init the submodule
05:09 PM polprog: hmm, craps out with tcl headers
05:09 PM polprog: i dont have /usr/include/tcl-private but i do have tk-private
05:09 PM polprog: ill approach this tomorrow
05:10 PM polprog: why the fuck noone has made a sane GDB GUI/TUI
05:15 PM Emil: Because cli is better :D
05:30 PM TechChristoph: http://porn.jules-aubert.info/cul/humble_ebooks/Arduino_and_Raspberry_Pi/make_avrprogramming.pdf
05:30 PM TechChristoph: found that tutorial
05:31 PM Emil: >porn
05:31 PM Emil: kek
05:31 PM Emil: holy shit
05:31 PM Emil: that's some pages
05:33 PM TechChristoph: maybe this is interessting
05:37 PM TechChristoph: are there still some bulletin board systems out there _
05:37 PM TechChristoph: ?
05:37 PM Emil: eh?
05:38 PM TechChristoph: well in the late 80ies or in the beginning of the 90's there were some bbs's
05:38 PM TechChristoph: where you can chat with someone
05:39 PM TechChristoph: like here in irc
05:39 PM Emil: yes many are still available
05:39 PM Emil: as are usenets
05:39 PM TechChristoph: but i think those systems are dead right ?
05:39 PM TechChristoph: and usenet too
05:39 PM Emil: "dead"
05:39 PM TechChristoph: not used is the better word i think
05:46 PM polprog: usenet seems to be an alternative for torrents nowadays
05:46 PM polprog: i wanted to get into some comp.* groups
05:47 PM polprog: but all the tutorials on usenet covered how to set up a alt.binaries grabber
05:47 PM polprog: on the other hand irc is obscure enough
05:47 PM TechChristoph: polprog: yes thats right in many ways
05:50 PM TechChristoph: so i think irc came after usenet right ?
05:57 PM polprog: not hard to check
05:57 PM Emil: TechChristoph: I think the order is usenet - bbs - irc
05:57 PM Emil: historically
05:57 PM polprog: id bet yes because usenet is older than www
05:58 PM polprog: yeah that seems right
05:58 PM Emil: thought both usenet and bbs were very popular in the 90s
05:58 PM TechChristoph: and irc is older than www too right ?
05:58 PM Emil: yeah
05:58 PM TechChristoph: because www was created in 1991
05:58 PM TechChristoph: in switzerland
05:58 PM TechChristoph: at CERN
05:59 PM polprog: oh
06:00 PM polprog: WWW was a mistake :^)
06:02 PM nohitzzzz: irc is 1989 iirc
06:03 PM Emil: 1988
06:03 PM polprog: niters
06:03 PM Emil: good night
06:03 PM Emil: and actually well
06:03 PM Emil: www is a strange concept to think about
06:03 PM polprog: ill try to compile that gui tomorrow
06:03 PM Emil: Since
06:03 PM polprog: i hope :D
06:03 PM Emil: I mean
06:04 PM Emil: The real thing there was HTML
06:04 PM Emil: HTTP is just a protocol to transfer those files
06:04 PM Emil: It could have just as well been ssh
06:05 PM Emil: except lol ssh is from 1995
06:12 PM Emil: < censored> why isn't my number counting https://pastebin.com/krkYwfEQ
06:12 PM Emil: this kills the teacher
06:12 PM Emil: how the fuck can you find yourself to irc but not manage basic fucking programming :D
06:22 PM TechChristoph: so he call his counter 3 times
06:22 PM TechChristoph: ??
06:22 PM TechChristoph: why that ?
06:23 PM TechChristoph: i go to sleep now
06:23 PM TechChristoph: have a nice night
06:23 PM TechChristoph: goodbye
11:20 PM * nuxil wounders what sites TechChristoph searches for avr-guids on..
11:22 PM nuxil: http:/porn.. lol.
11:22 PM nuxil: how long before we get some pornhub links in here with some fetish avr code :p
11:49 PM Casper: hmmm
11:50 PM Casper: interessingly enought, none yet in my logs
11:51 PM Casper: and nothing that match "porn and http"