#avr Logs
May 18 2018
#avr Calendar
12:38 AM day__ is now known as day
01:17 AM polprog: morning
01:17 AM nohitzzzz: morning
02:17 AM polprog: why do assembly programmers need to know how to swim?
02:17 AM polprog: because they work below C level.
02:19 AM Haohmaru: >:)
02:19 AM eimiar: >:(
02:19 AM nuxil: haha nice one
02:19 AM nuxil: eimiar,
02:19 AM eimiar: hey there
02:19 AM nuxil: i forgot to tell you.
02:20 AM nuxil: sudo apt-get install raspi-config
02:20 AM eimiar: nuxil, i figured how to enable SPI eventually
02:20 AM eimiar: it was under "Interfacing Config"
02:21 AM eimiar: of raspi-config
02:21 AM polprog: makes sense
02:21 AM eimiar: after enabling it /dev/spidev*.* appeared
02:22 AM nuxil: yea
02:22 AM eimiar: also for some reason the rpi wouldn't boot, turned it off for 1 minute and turned it on, then it booted :)
02:22 AM nuxil: you short circuit something ?
02:22 AM eimiar: ran avrdude, but couldn't communicate with the device
02:22 AM eimiar: nuxil, i'm almost certain i didn't
02:23 AM polprog: what model of Pi is that?
02:23 AM eimiar: rpi model b rev. 2
02:24 AM nuxil: also with avrdude. do you specify the correct port ?
02:24 AM eimiar: one of the first to be released around 2013
02:24 AM eimiar: nuxil, i tried both 2 ports (0.0 and 0.1)
02:24 AM nuxil: sudo avrdude -F -p t85 -P /dev/spidev0.0 -c linuxspi bla bla bla
02:24 AM eimiar: in my case -p is m32, not t85
02:24 AM polprog: what did F do?
02:24 AM polprog: also, check ALL the cables
02:25 AM eimiar: didn't try -F
02:25 AM polprog: and try sudo
02:25 AM eimiar: ran as root
02:25 AM nuxil: -P
02:25 AM nuxil: oh -F shouøld not be needed
02:25 AM eimiar: anyway now i'm at work, so can't run any test
02:26 AM nuxil: -F Override invalid signature check.
02:26 AM nuxil: @polprog,
02:26 AM polprog: nuxil: yeah but invalid sig check means a problem in most cases
02:26 AM nuxil: yes.
02:26 AM polprog: you then get verification errors most likely
02:26 AM polprog: due to loose cabling
02:26 AM nuxil: yes.. dont use it
02:27 AM polprog: lol so why did you propose that ;)
02:27 AM eimiar: i checked every single cable connection with a multimeter
02:27 AM nuxil: polprog, copy pasted from wrong file :p
02:27 AM eimiar: btw i connected a 100 ohm resistor in series between rpi and avr pinouts
02:27 AM eimiar: (not vcc and not gnd)
02:27 AM polprog: when you are back home, post the whole output
02:28 AM eimiar: i will
02:28 AM eimiar: yesterday i ran the last test after i got out of irc
02:28 AM nuxil: eimiar, 100ohm is to little
02:28 AM nuxil: use 1k ohm
02:29 AM polprog: why would you even use resistors there, i never used those with pi. its a logic signal
02:29 AM nuxil: you should
02:29 AM eimiar: polprog, that's just a good habit you should do every time, even when you're sure about the voltage levels
02:30 AM nuxil: if you get some hw error and current starts to flow. with 100 ohm you will burn the input. its max rated for around 16mA iirc. and with 100 ohm you can get twise that
02:30 AM polprog: yeah makes sense
02:30 AM polprog: again,last time i used a pi for that i had barly any idea about pixie wrangling ;)
02:31 AM polprog: barely*
02:31 AM eimiar: nuxil, 5V/100ohm=50mA
02:31 AM nuxil: eimiar, 3.3v
02:31 AM nuxil: isnt that what youre using ?
02:31 AM polprog: yeah pi's levels are 3v3
02:32 AM polprog: its a common misconception
02:32 AM eimiar: ah, rpi output is 3.3?
02:32 AM nuxil: yea
02:32 AM polprog: you didnt poke around with a meter :P ?
02:32 AM eimiar: well, i'll have to check if it's ok :|
02:32 AM eimiar: polprog, i should have done that xD
02:33 AM polprog: long time ago i made some of those
02:33 AM polprog: https://puu.sh/xX6X2/96a227f58e.jpg
02:34 AM polprog: quick leds with resistors to put on the gpio header
02:34 AM nuxil: heh nice for quick yest
02:34 AM polprog: you can connect it to any pin directly next to GND
02:34 AM nuxil: *tests
02:35 AM polprog: nuxil: have you seen the older brother of my Pi, a rocky 475?
02:35 AM polprog: https://puu.sh/yxl5F/28ac7273e2.jpg
02:35 AM polprog: :D
02:35 AM eimiar: i'll measure voltage levels by setting a pin to high and then measuring voltage between pin and gnd
02:35 AM polprog: thats a good way
02:36 AM eimiar: i just need to ensure 3.3V is enough to drive my atmega32
02:36 AM polprog: check if they go high :v
02:36 AM eimiar: but i don't see why it shouldn't
02:36 AM nuxil: eimiar, it is.
02:36 AM polprog: if its mega32L it should be ok
02:36 AM polprog: ofc atmegas VCC must be at 3.3 as well
02:36 AM eimiar: on chip it's written atmega32-16PC
02:37 AM polprog: check with the datasheet
02:37 AM polprog: theres a number legend somewhere in it
02:37 AM nuxil: i can flash a big atmega 324 -20pu with it. bit 40 pin chip :p
02:37 AM nuxil: *big
02:37 AM eimiar: datasheet: http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/doc2503.pdf
02:38 AM nuxil: :)
02:38 AM nuxil: – 4.5V - 5.5V for ATmega32 ouch
02:39 AM eimiar: page?
02:39 AM eimiar: ah page 1 lol
02:39 AM nuxil: you might need to hook vcc to the 5v pin instead of using 3.3v
02:39 AM eimiar: nuxil, that's what i did
02:40 AM nuxil: well. let us know how it all works out when you get home.
02:40 AM eimiar: =)
02:42 AM polprog: i dont think pi is 5v tolerant
02:42 AM polprog: you may need a level shifter on top of that
02:42 AM polprog: or just get mega32L
02:42 AM nuxil: polprog, pi has a 5v pin on the header
02:43 AM polprog: yes but that 5V is connected to Vusb
02:43 AM nuxil: i have several times used that instead of the 3.3v pin when hooking up chips to my pi for flashing.
02:44 AM polprog: https://elinux.org/RPi_Low-level_peripherals
02:44 AM nuxil: but ofc. its not reccomended
02:44 AM polprog: GPIO voltage levels are 3.3 V and are not 5 V tolerant. There is no over-voltage protection on the board - the intention is that people interested in serious interfacing will use an external board with buffers, level conversion and analog I/O rather than soldering directly onto the main board.
02:44 AM polprog: in "interfacing with gpio pins"
02:45 AM eimiar: datasheet, page 287: "DC Characteristics"
02:45 AM nuxil: but with my programmer dude to this problem i added in a logic level shifter on my progeammer. "just a schmitt trigger"
02:46 AM nuxil: *dude -> due
02:46 AM polprog: yeah
02:46 AM eimiar: -0.5V < VIL < 0.2 VCC and 0.6 VCC < VIH > VCC + 0.5V
02:46 AM eimiar: ok i guess i need a level shifter then
02:47 AM polprog: maxim makes a bunch of level converters
02:47 AM polprog: in theory you could use two ULN2003
02:47 AM nuxil: in theory and practice you can use transisors if you like :p
02:47 AM polprog: one for 3v3->5 and one for 5->3v3
02:48 AM eimiar: VCC = 5V => -0.5V < VIL < 1V & 3V < VIH < 5.5V
02:48 AM polprog: nuxil: meh thats too new; use isolation transformers instead
02:48 AM polprog: self wound ofc
02:48 AM polprog: or use an arduino as programmer xD
02:49 AM nuxil: yea
02:49 AM nuxil: thats a solution
02:49 AM polprog: pc -ssh-> pi -usb-> arduino
02:49 AM eimiar: i don't have an arduino
02:49 AM eimiar: BUT!!! I have a TUMPA-Lite
02:49 AM eimiar: xD
02:49 AM polprog: or like me, use XMODEM to transfer a file from the PC and use a Pi to flash the blue pills
02:49 AM eimiar: (FTDI 232H based circuit board)
02:50 AM polprog: hey thats cool! http://www.tiaowiki.com/w/TIAO_USB_Multi_Protocol_Adapter_Lite_User%27s_Manual
02:50 AM polprog: kinda like buspirates brother
02:50 AM eimiar: kinda like the down brother of bus pirate xD
02:51 AM polprog: lol
02:51 AM polprog: i never got bus pirate to work with avrdude
02:55 AM nuxil: √324
02:55 AM polprog: eh?
02:56 AM nuxil: hey polprog happy √324
02:56 AM polprog: ah
02:56 AM nuxil: :D
02:56 AM polprog: ty, its in 10 days :)
02:56 AM polprog: happy 18th lap around the sun
02:56 AM Thrashbarg: can we get blind drunk yet?
02:56 AM nuxil: i thought you sid it was the 18 may _:p
02:56 AM nuxil: *said
02:56 AM polprog: 28th may ;)
02:56 AM nuxil: oh
02:56 AM nuxil: same day as me :D
02:57 AM polprog: nice!
02:57 AM Thrashbarg: heh
02:57 AM nuxil: thats weird ;p
02:57 AM polprog: its not, im just your alt account
02:57 AM polprog: jk, :^)
03:01 AM polprog: crickets.flac
03:36 AM * nuxil sips some coffee
03:37 AM polprog: 30 mins till lessons start
03:37 AM polprog: hmm
03:37 AM polprog: maybe ill get a coffee too
03:39 AM nuxil: eimiar, do you got any small signal transistors laying around? was thinking you can easly build a logic level shifter using a couple of transistors.
03:39 AM polprog: yeah... thats a good idea
03:39 AM nuxil: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT8gMkQ3CSnRXwJ1kX5-tOQHmeTDkWN1VYHZS71Hkqn0ohrPoyq
03:39 AM polprog: 2n7000 or bc547
03:39 AM nuxil: one for scl and one for mosi
03:39 AM polprog: yeah
03:40 AM nuxil: and one this for miso
03:40 AM nuxil: https://i.stack.imgur.com/jrhOJ.png
03:40 AM nuxil: you might need one of 3.3 to 5v for the reset pin aswell
03:43 AM nuxil: i like bc547. its a nice small general purpose transistor
03:44 AM nuxil: bc is more in use in asia/jap and in well used in europa. while its not so common to use bc transistors in US. they use these 2n instead.
03:45 AM nuxil: but bc is kind of old now :p
03:54 AM polprog: one for reset or just connect reset to GND
03:54 AM polprog: since all of the programming is carried out in reset state
03:54 AM polprog: i mean, transistor itself is kind of old now :D
03:56 AM polprog: hmm
03:56 AM polprog: get an arbgen, connect headphones to it, play wav files off usb
03:56 AM polprog: 1MHz sample rate
03:56 AM polprog: take that audiophiles
03:57 AM polprog: tektronix > denon
03:58 AM tpw_rules: i loved listening to the radio with my spectrum analyzer
03:58 AM tpw_rules: Superior Frequency Response
03:58 AM nuxil: i would not have had a fixed reset to ground tied to the ground.
03:59 AM nuxil: but yea it should work that way anywho.. just not something i would do..
03:59 AM polprog: sometimes when i was listening to music i would start baudline (linux software spectrum analyzer) and watch the superior spectrogram
03:59 AM polprog: nuxil: if it saves you some work
03:59 AM polprog: its a temporary setup after all
03:59 AM nuxil: it can cause you problems too :p
04:00 AM polprog: like everything ;)
04:00 AM polprog: [10:24] <tpw_rules> i loved listening to the radio with my spectrum analyzer
04:00 AM polprog: like it had a mode of tuning to FM and outputting a demodulated signal?
04:00 AM tpw_rules: yeah
04:01 AM polprog: nice
04:01 AM tpw_rules: headphone jack and volume knob
04:01 AM polprog: haha
04:01 AM tpw_rules: punch in the frequency and you get to watch and listen :D
04:01 AM tpw_rules: center*
04:01 AM polprog: i wouldnt expect that ;)
04:01 AM tpw_rules: what do you mean
04:01 AM polprog: i would listen to all kinds of radios with rtlsdr
04:02 AM polprog: i wouldnt expect a spectrum analyzer to have a headphone output
04:02 AM tpw_rules: oh. it was a "portable" one
04:02 AM nuxil: my contry wasted billions on fasing out FM in favor of DAB
04:02 AM nuxil: and DAB sucks ass compared to FM
04:02 AM nuxil: :(
04:02 AM polprog: mine shut down analogue TV
04:02 AM polprog: in favor of dvbt
04:03 AM nuxil: bad signal with DAB. + shittyer sound quyality, sounds like double compression. 1st the compression on music file then comprssed again on the DAB signal :p
04:04 AM polprog: hehe
04:04 AM polprog: some of the stuff i listen to compresses losslessly to .MOD
04:05 AM day: radio is unusable here. They do news at XX:00 and XX:30 for 5+ minutes. then theres ads ontop of that :P
04:05 AM nuxil: analoge TV has been lone gone here. is dvb here too. called RiksTv
04:06 AM day: the problem with dvbt is the censoring aka "regional licenses"
04:06 AM polprog: ricks tv repair, you break it we make it, how can i help you today?
04:06 AM polprog: yeah
04:06 AM polprog: day ++
04:07 AM eimiar: nuxil, thanks! i was just looking into that, and i've found the exact same schematic for 3Vout -> 5Vin
04:07 AM eimiar: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/296879/logic-level-converter-using-transistors/297092#297092
04:07 AM Haohmaru: mpeg compression is ugly too
04:07 AM eimiar: this one has even a shifter 5Vout -> 3Vin
04:08 AM polprog: mmm coffee
04:08 AM nuxil: eimiar, for 5v to 3v you only need a voltage divider
04:08 AM nuxil: no need to mess with transistor.. saves components :p
04:08 AM eimiar: sure, whatever works :P
04:09 AM eimiar: what about reset pin? what problems can i have if i link it to gnd?
04:10 AM eimiar: i had it floating last time
04:10 AM nuxil: o.O
04:10 AM nuxil: WHAT
04:10 AM eimiar: (using SPI interface from rpi)
04:10 AM nuxil: gosh :p
04:11 AM eimiar: http://www.fakepigskin.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/No-idea.jpg
04:11 AM nuxil: well. the problem i had when powering up the chip with reset tied to ground is that avrdude complains about chip is not responding..
04:11 AM nuxil: usaly solved by setting reset high/low
04:11 AM eimiar: huh
04:12 AM eimiar: when using linuxgpio config, the reset pin was linked to one of the rpi gpio
04:12 AM nuxil: also.. you dont want the reset pin floating around in the breez e
04:12 AM eimiar: so i either tie it to gnd or vcc?
04:12 AM nuxil: with a pullup resistor
04:13 AM eimiar: ok
04:13 AM Haohmaru: ground? no
04:13 AM eimiar: the pin is ~reset, so high input should mean "don't reset"
04:14 AM eimiar: but datasheet says that when programming memory reset should be low
04:14 AM nuxil: eimiar, you dont want want to put 5v direcly on the reset. you need a resistor there to limit the current
04:14 AM eimiar: nuxil, yes, got that
04:19 AM polprog: it was at this moment, when eimiar knew, hed fucked up
04:19 AM polprog: [10:35] <eimiar> i had it floating last time
04:19 AM polprog: hehe,
04:19 AM polprog: we all started somewhere ;)
04:20 AM polprog: eimiar: youre right, reset is active low. and programming is done with reset low
04:21 AM Haohmaru: reset on the chip is an input, on the programmer - it's an output
04:21 AM Haohmaru: so if you've slapped 5V directly to your chip, then the programmer's output pin will suffer if ya connect it there
04:22 AM eimiar: polprog, eheheh let's hope is just that xD
04:22 AM Haohmaru: programmer_output_pin -> power == boom
04:23 AM nuxil: eimiar, usaly a reset circuit looks like this for avr . https://i.stack.imgur.com/JoVFK.png swi is ofc controlled by SW/PI
04:23 AM eimiar: is 10k series resistance between pins too much?
04:23 AM nuxil: thats fine
04:24 AM nuxil: 10k is good
04:24 AM Haohmaru: with the circuit nuxil posted, you should *never* press the button while a programmer is attached
04:24 AM nuxil: eh?
04:24 AM Haohmaru: cuz then your programmer's output pins is shorted to ground
04:25 AM nuxil: Haohmaru, pls.
04:25 AM Haohmaru: tbh, i don't know what kind of output drive a programmer would use, so it might be safe in that case
04:25 AM Haohmaru: but it's definately not safe to stick 5V directly onto the reset
04:26 AM Haohmaru: nuxil try it and see ;]
04:26 AM eimiar: isn't rpi output of type open collector? (or open drain, whatever)
04:26 AM polprog: Haohmaru: but reset pin on programmers sinks current i think
04:27 AM Haohmaru: on which ones?
04:27 AM polprog: no idea
04:27 AM polprog: prolly dragon
04:27 AM polprog: i mean
04:27 AM Haohmaru: there are a ton of things you can use to program an atmega
04:27 AM polprog: i was pressing reset buttom and my dragon still lives :v
04:27 AM Haohmaru: do you just assume everybody has the official expensive atmel programmer?
04:27 AM polprog: yes /s
04:27 AM Haohmaru: yeah, a proper programmer should be idiot-proof
04:28 AM Haohmaru: i use stk200 at home
04:28 AM polprog: bbl
04:29 AM Haohmaru: i put a resistor between the button and ground
04:29 AM Haohmaru: say, 1K-ish
04:30 AM Haohmaru: * 1k-ish
04:41 AM Haohmaru: kabel ftw
04:42 AM nuxil: Haohmaru, with the circuit nuxil posted, you should *never* press the button while a programmer is attached
04:42 AM nuxil: you telling me that the current follows the red path instead of the blue path.
04:42 AM nuxil: https://gyazo.com/435cff85f7425dc2647daf55fef9d6e6
04:43 AM nuxil: makes no sense :p
04:43 AM Haohmaru: dafuq is that?
04:44 AM nuxil: my awesome drawing skills :p
04:44 AM nuxil: https://i.stack.imgur.com/JoVFK.png you told him never to push the button as it would shortcircuit
04:44 AM Haohmaru: this doesn't look like a programmer
04:44 AM nuxil: lol
04:45 AM nuxil: hey.. dont complain on my drawing skills :p
04:45 AM Haohmaru: laugh if you find that funny.. *shrug*
04:49 AM Haohmaru: here's one (lousy) example of a programmer: https://fahmizaleeits.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/skematik-rangkaian-khazama-downloader.jpg
04:50 AM Haohmaru: looks like usbasp
04:50 AM Haohmaru: pin16 goes to your reset pin, now what happens when ya press that button?
04:55 AM eimiar: Haohmaru, if i understood nuxil correctly it's actually pin1 interested by the button press, just by connecting a button between pin1 and gnd
04:56 AM Haohmaru: x_x
04:56 AM eimiar: in that case by pressing the button => voltage level on pin1 goes to 0, +5V is shorted to GND through the series 10k resistor
04:56 AM Haohmaru: forget it
04:56 AM nuxil: Haohmaru, you mean if i add in a button there ? then i would ofc add in a resistor as well
04:56 AM nuxil: https://gyazo.com/b9e0798d7c1ddc9311762b5b490d81d4
04:57 AM eimiar: why would you add a button between pin16 and gnd?
04:57 AM eimiar: manual operation of SS?
04:57 AM Haohmaru: eimiar the pic i posted above is a circuit diagram of a *programmer*
04:58 AM Haohmaru: stop looking at its pin1
04:59 AM eimiar: ok, go on
04:59 AM Haohmaru: this atmega48 there sits in an ugly box, with a cable coming out, and you connect that cable into YOUR avr circuit where you have a button on the reset pin
04:59 AM nuxil: pin16 is output to control reset
05:00 AM Haohmaru: all i was saying was that it's (IMO) not generally safe to plug VCC or GND directly onto your reset pin if you'll be using a programmer
05:00 AM eimiar: ah
05:00 AM Haohmaru: so, use a pull resistor to VCC
05:00 AM eimiar: well then we agree
05:01 AM Haohmaru: if you need a button to ground - then *don't* press that button while a programmer is connected
05:02 AM Haohmaru: i'm not familiar with "high-voltage" programmers, but if you ever have to use one of those on yer device, then i think you'd have bigger problems if you tied the reset to VCC
05:03 AM nuxil: if done correctly you can press the button as many times as you want while the programmer is attached. just dont do any flashing while you go crazy pressing the button
05:03 AM Haohmaru: i think they apply a higher voltage to the reset pin
05:03 AM nuxil: it all depends on your programer
05:03 AM nuxil: Haohmaru, and hes making his own by using PI.
05:03 AM Haohmaru: wonderful
05:03 AM Haohmaru: i said enough
05:04 AM eimiar: ok now about this pic: https://i.stack.imgur.com/jrhOJ.png why the capacitor?
05:05 AM nuxil: not needed
05:05 AM eimiar: ok
05:06 AM nuxil: thats just a voltage dividor. the cap does block high freq noise tho.
05:09 AM eimiar: actually the cap blocks low frequency
05:09 AM nuxil: erro.. xc becomes less with high freq.
05:09 AM nuxil: yea.. eimiar i had a brain fart :p
05:10 AM eimiar: xD
05:10 AM Haohmaru: eh?
05:10 AM eimiar: to block high frequency cap must be between output and ground
05:10 AM eimiar: where "output" is 3.3V
05:11 AM nuxil: jup and xc must be low
05:11 AM nuxil: for wanted frequency
05:12 AM nuxil: the resistance for the high freq should take the shortest path to ground and that should be though the cap.
05:13 AM nuxil: err the current..
05:14 AM Haohmaru: this capacitor there plays sorta like a low-shelf
05:14 AM Haohmaru: ehm, high-shelf
05:15 AM polprog: lol
05:15 AM Haohmaru: whatever, it "boosts" high-freq noises a little
05:15 AM polprog: take a break yall
05:15 AM nuxil: it will affect slew rate too. so maybe not something you want to be having there
05:15 AM nuxil: altho its only 22pF
05:15 AM Haohmaru: it won't affect slew rate really
05:19 AM Haohmaru: http://tinyurl.com/y7nkr93a
05:19 AM Haohmaru: basically, it's a highpass added onto the signal
05:20 AM Haohmaru: dolby NR ;P~
05:20 AM Haohmaru: pre-emphasis
05:27 AM nuxil: such ugly spikes
06:48 AM polprog: daamn. an hour to go
06:48 AM APic: Happens
10:29 AM l9_ is now known as l9
10:29 AM gregor2: Guys
10:30 AM gregor2: i am trying to program an atmega328p with an avr dragon and avrdude.
10:31 AM gregor2: Here is what i type: avrdude -p m328p -c dragon_pp -U flash:w:clocktest.hex:i
10:32 AM gregor2: and it does not work! It says avrdude: stk500v2_jtagmkII_recv(): unknown status 171 all the time and fails.
10:35 AM gregor2: Whats going on here?
10:49 AM Haohmaru: gregor2 not familiar with this dragon, but is it possible that it is "prepared" to work with atmel studio and not with avrdude?
10:49 AM Haohmaru: for example, i use this avrisp2 clone which has two separate firmwares depending on whether you wanna use it with avrdude or atmel studio
11:26 AM gregor2: i see
11:26 AM gregor2: But i also guess that the connection on a Breadboard is not that good.
11:26 AM gregor2: With that many wires.
12:15 PM eimiar: ok it's time of the truth
12:15 PM eimiar: and the avr is not responding
12:16 PM eimiar: pulled reset to vcc through a 10k R
12:16 PM eimiar: changed voltage levels with NPN BJTs
12:18 PM eimiar: let's try by pulling reset down through a 10k R
12:19 PM eimiar: https://pastebin.com/MF4qxfse
12:21 PM PsySc0rpi0n is now known as HelloShitty
12:23 PM antto: how are you connecting all of that?
12:23 PM eimiar: sorry g2g, cya tomorrow
02:16 PM Emil: HighInBC: dragon works just fine with avrdude
02:17 PM HighInBC: what is dragon?
02:17 PM Emil: ...fucking idiots not using irc servers
02:17 PM Emil: god damn it
02:17 PM Emil: HighInBC: tab autocomplete fail
02:18 PM polprog: lol
02:20 PM MrFahrenheit: nuxil, spool holder mounted and working great, couldn't find any M3 rods at the hardware store though
02:35 PM nuxil: :) whats next list?
02:39 PM polprog: i got myself a dremel and a some taps
02:39 PM polprog: random objects in my house are starting to have screws fitted in weird places
02:40 PM polprog: also taps i dont have probably arent ISO metric...
02:40 PM polprog: that kinda sucks
02:55 PM Emil: the fuck does that mean
02:55 PM Emil: >taps i dont have probably arent ISO metric
02:56 PM Emil: why would it suck that the taps you don't have are probably not something? :D
02:56 PM polprog: excuse me
02:56 PM polprog: im just an idiot
02:57 PM polprog: just took a pair of calipers and they seem to be metric sizes, not checked the thread parameters but they are 3 and 4 mm
02:57 PM Emil: you mean "taps I have probably aren't metric" ?
02:57 PM polprog: i thought they are not iso metric because the screws i have dont fit the holes
02:58 PM polprog: maybe i have wrong screws
02:58 PM polprog: maybe i took m2.5 by mistake
02:58 PM polprog: dude
02:58 PM polprog: im totally new to this whole thing
02:58 PM polprog: :P
03:00 PM Emil: to English? >:D
03:00 PM polprog: okay
03:00 PM polprog: s/dont//
03:00 PM polprog: speaking of which
03:01 PM Emil: :D
03:01 PM polprog: finnish must have double negation
03:01 PM polprog: so i was right. taps i have are metric
03:01 PM Emil: learning is best done with a pinch of saltiness
03:01 PM polprog: printed out http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-tap-metric.htm to habd on a wall
03:01 PM polprog: hang*
03:01 PM polprog: now i need to find 2.5mm drills
03:01 PM Emil: Yeah I mean, sure, but Finnish is so flexible you can write prettu much whatever
03:02 PM polprog: definitely none of them in this house
03:02 PM polprog: i never had a drill that size is not a whole number in mm
03:02 PM Emil: buy a drill set
03:02 PM Emil: 100% worth it
03:02 PM Emil: and doesn't cost much
03:02 PM polprog: on my shopping list
03:03 PM Emil: polprog: whatcha mean precisely with double negation btw?
03:04 PM polprog: X i dont have are not === X i have are
03:04 PM polprog: at least in here
03:04 PM polprog: im mean not
03:04 PM polprog: damn
03:04 PM polprog: in polish we use double negation
03:04 PM Emil: interesting
03:04 PM polprog: if you want to say that there isnt anything here
03:04 PM polprog: you say "Nothing is not here"
03:05 PM Emil: that's not logical :D
03:05 PM polprog: who am i to oppose that
03:05 PM Emil: In English it would be "There's nothing here"
03:05 PM polprog: yeah i know
03:05 PM polprog: but, 'nothing ain't here'
03:05 PM Emil: In Finnish, perhaps "Täällä ei ole mitään"
03:05 PM polprog: :P
03:05 PM polprog: that doesnt tell me anything
03:06 PM polprog: whats taalla and ole and ei and mitaan :D
03:06 PM polprog: damn where are my thumbtacks
03:06 PM Emil: ei is no, ole means exists and mitään is a conjugated version of mitä, something
03:06 PM Emil: oh shit
03:07 PM Emil: it's from mikään
03:07 PM Emil: which is from mikä, again something
03:07 PM Emil: but different meaning
03:07 PM polprog: rofl
03:08 PM polprog: thats better than javascript
03:08 PM Emil: kek
03:08 PM polprog: "different something"
03:08 PM polprog: like, dereferenced something?
03:08 PM polprog: :P
03:08 PM Emil: polprog: https://i.imgur.com/NXd3vZ1.jpg
03:08 PM polprog: i need to learn this
03:08 PM polprog: heh
03:09 PM polprog: so , it seems i have two m3 threads and two m4 threads
03:09 PM polprog: :D
03:09 PM Emil: well actually my translation was off, mitä is more like "(of) what"
03:09 PM polprog: which case is that
03:09 PM Emil: and mikä is like "that"
03:09 PM Emil: hmm, perhaps I shouldn't go too deep into this or I'll have to backtrack on everything I say
03:10 PM polprog: hm i can buy a set of 3 m16 threads and a titan drill. do you think this would be right to make mounting holes in PCBs?
03:10 PM polprog: dont worry
03:10 PM polprog: some day ill learn that
03:10 PM Emil: Anycase, "Täällä ei ole mitään" sort of sounds like double negative since "mitään" has a feel of nothigness to it
03:11 PM Emil: >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_negative ctrl+f Finnish
03:11 PM polprog: uralic languages> Something superficially resembling double negation is required also in Finnish, which uses the auxiliary verb ei to express negation
03:12 PM polprog: hmm
03:12 PM polprog: In Slavic languages other than Slavonic, multiple negatives are grammatically correct ways to express negation, and a single negative is often incorrect. << parse that lol
03:12 PM Emil: That page actually makes little sense to normal people
03:12 PM polprog: its about language studies
03:12 PM Emil: I'm sure linguistics get a rise out of it though
03:13 PM polprog: they get a piss for sure
03:13 PM Emil: polprog: but here's a funny thing
03:13 PM Emil: http://www.uusikielemme.fi/negation.html
03:14 PM Emil: if you say "Minä tiedä", as in "I know"
03:14 PM Emil: it actually means I don't know
03:15 PM Emil: It's a recent view of the language and mostly spoken Finnish
03:15 PM Emil: but it's still pretty cool
03:15 PM polprog: nice site
03:16 PM Emil: Also "Minä mitään tehnyt" is the same as "Minä en tehnyt mitään" which means I didn't do anything
03:16 PM polprog: if you say "i know" it means "i dont know"
03:16 PM polprog: "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
03:17 PM Emil: :D
03:17 PM Emil: kek
03:17 PM polprog: let me skim through that finnish for busy people site
03:17 PM Emil: polprog: but the way it works is quite "strict"
03:17 PM Emil: "Minä tiedä" is "Minä en tiedä"
03:18 PM polprog: nice
03:19 PM Emil: but "Minä tietää" means I know
03:19 PM Emil: so you need to have it conjugated
03:19 PM polprog: in "basic vocabulary" the first word listed is "vaara"
03:19 PM polprog: useful
03:19 PM Emil: and using that short version is pretty fucking dump sounding so unless you are a tyämiäsröiukko don't use it:D
03:20 PM polprog: what is tyämiäsröiukko
03:20 PM Emil: gosh I love Finnish
03:20 PM polprog: cant find it
03:20 PM Emil: polprog: that is left as an excercise to the reader
03:20 PM polprog: very funny
03:20 PM polprog: palant
03:20 PM polprog: xD
03:20 PM Emil: if you figure out what it means and the subtext beyond it I'll buy you a beer
03:20 PM Emil: don't cheat to much
03:21 PM Emil: palant?
03:21 PM Emil: ai pesistä? :D
03:21 PM polprog: something tells me that apart from a drill kit ill get a finnish-polish dictionary
03:22 PM Emil: God fucking damn it, I got "kakkoii" into my mind from palant and now it's 1h of yuki
03:22 PM Emil: emil.fi/l/yuki
03:22 PM Emil: polprog: a good way to learn is to translate all words religously
03:23 PM Emil: I learned to do Runescape quests like that :D
03:23 PM polprog: lol
03:40 PM Emil: one third of way done with yuki
03:40 PM Emil: I should put 10h of kaptain kirk on
03:41 PM Emil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StmxHCDiLlQ
03:55 PM polprog: so an M64 nut weighs 1.8 kilos and M64 screw (shortest made) about 6.2 kilos
03:57 PM polprog: would make a nice doorstop or dumbbell
04:00 PM nuxil: or as a anchor
04:00 PM polprog: actually
04:01 PM polprog: our sailboat used to have an anchor
04:01 PM Emil: I'm sure it still has an anchor
04:01 PM polprog: in the form of a slice of a train rail
04:01 PM Emil: kek
04:01 PM polprog: on a chain
04:01 PM polprog: it works pretty well
04:02 PM Emil: worked*
04:02 PM Emil: Though perhaps works is also acceptable
04:02 PM polprog: in fact it still is there, we just didnt sail much recently
04:02 PM Emil: ayy
04:58 PM polprog: niters
05:02 PM Emil: good night
05:32 PM TechChristoph: Hello
05:32 PM TechChristoph: does someone know a good tutorial
05:32 PM rue_: yes
05:32 PM rue_: lots of them
05:32 PM TechChristoph: ok in Pdf-Form ?
05:33 PM rue_: how to eat dirt,
05:33 PM rue_: how to avoid being hit by a car
05:33 PM Emil: TechChristoph: https://emil.fi/avr
05:33 PM rue_: how to greet people in a store
05:33 PM TechChristoph: how to programm avr-microcontrollers :)
05:33 PM Emil: print to pdf if you want pdf version
05:34 PM TechChristoph: yeah i did that
05:34 PM TechChristoph: and now from ground up
05:35 PM rue_: TechChristoph, your starting from scratch?
05:35 PM rue_: linux or windows?
05:35 PM TechChristoph: linux
05:35 PM rue_: install avr-gcc
05:35 PM rue_: avrdude
05:35 PM rue_: and avr-utils
05:35 PM TechChristoph: and some code ?
05:35 PM TechChristoph: to learn
05:35 PM rue_: do you have a favorite code editor?
05:35 PM TechChristoph: vim
05:36 PM rue_: what microcontroler are you using, mega328?
05:36 PM TechChristoph: atmega328p and attiny2313
05:36 PM rue_: ok
05:36 PM rue_: have you ever programmed anything before?
05:36 PM TechChristoph: yes python and come c
05:36 PM TechChristoph: and some c
05:36 PM rue_: ok, can you wire an led up to the avr? whats your hardware setup?
05:37 PM TechChristoph: sure i did that allready
05:37 PM rue_: did you make it flash?
05:37 PM TechChristoph: now i want do go deeper if you know what i mean
05:37 PM TechChristoph: yes i did flash both of them
05:37 PM rue_: ok, and you programmed it in C?
05:37 PM TechChristoph: yes i did
05:38 PM rue_: ok, would you like to write serial communication software?
05:38 PM rue_: oplay with timers?
05:38 PM rue_: try some pin change interrupts?
05:38 PM TechChristoph: mhm some tutorial ?
05:38 PM rue_: were right here!
05:38 PM TechChristoph: i don't know where to go
05:38 PM rue_: tho, I'm going to sleep for an hour
05:38 PM rue_: TechChristoph, your here
05:38 PM TechChristoph: yes i know
05:39 PM rue_: lets do a simple timer demo
05:39 PM TechChristoph: ok i want to learn something about timers,wachtdogs and som other stuff
05:39 PM rue_: is the m328p have an arduino bootloader?
05:39 PM rue_: do you have the datasheet for the m328?
05:39 PM TechChristoph: no bootloader
05:39 PM TechChristoph: yes i have
05:40 PM rue_: ok, what programmer are you using?
05:40 PM TechChristoph: usbasp
05:40 PM rue_: ok
05:41 PM rue_: show me the code you used to flash the led so I know wher eyour at, paste it to...
05:41 PM rue_: http://paste.debian.net/
05:43 PM TechChristoph: http://paste.debian.net/1025322/
05:43 PM TechChristoph: did that
05:43 PM rue_: http://paste.debian.net/1025321/
05:43 PM rue_: ok look at that code for a bit
05:43 PM TechChristoph: yes
05:43 PM rue_: look up the registers it writes to and try to tell me how you think it works
05:44 PM rue_: on one of the last pages, its got a list of registers with the pages they are detailed on
05:44 PM TechChristoph: well its set the led high for one second
05:44 PM TechChristoph: and then low for 1 second
05:44 PM rue_: no, the code I posted
05:44 PM rue_: http://paste.debian.net/1025321/
05:44 PM rue_: you try to tell me how it works
05:45 PM TechChristoph: i did
05:45 PM rue_: ok, what is TCCR1B for?
05:46 PM TechChristoph: mhm its not in the code ?
05:46 PM rue_: http://paste.debian.net/1025321/
05:46 PM rue_: http://paste.debian.net/1025321/
05:46 PM rue_: http://paste.debian.net/1025321/
05:46 PM rue_: http://paste.debian.net/1025321/
05:46 PM rue_: http://paste.debian.net/1025321/
05:46 PM rue_: http://paste.debian.net/1025321/
05:46 PM rue_: my post is one digit off from yours
05:47 PM rue_: open ^ that link
05:47 PM rue_: its interrupt based led flashing
05:47 PM TechChristoph: mhm i don't know
05:47 PM rue_: ok, look 'er up in the datasheet! :)
05:47 PM TechChristoph: ok
05:47 PM TechChristoph: and then ??
05:48 PM rue_: tell me what you know about what that first line does
05:48 PM TechChristoph: i don't get it at all
05:48 PM rue_: http://paste.debian.net/1025321/
05:48 PM rue_: I want you to describe the operation of line 25 in that code
05:48 PM TechChristoph: yes i read it but don't understand
05:48 PM rue_: by reading the datasheet
05:48 PM TechChristoph: maybe im too dump
05:48 PM TechChristoph: dumb
05:48 PM rue_: what page of the datasheet is the description of that register on?
05:49 PM TechChristoph: ??
05:49 PM rue_: do you hav the datasheet for the m328p?
05:49 PM TechChristoph: ok im looking for it
05:50 PM TechChristoph: i thought it is fun too learn
05:50 PM TechChristoph: ...
05:50 PM rue_: there is a table at the end of the datasheet that lists all the resiters, on the right side of the table it tells you what page the details for that register are on
05:50 PM rue_: this is a reverse engineering puzzle
05:51 PM TechChristoph: ok thats for the pros i think
05:51 PM rue_: thats the code, you want to figure out how it works so that you can make it blink the led faster
05:51 PM TechChristoph: im a noob
05:51 PM TechChristoph: thats too difficult for me
05:51 PM rue_: sure, did you find TCCR1B in the register table?
05:52 PM TechChristoph: couldn't find it in the datasheet
05:52 PM rue_: ok, there are sections in the datasheet, right?
05:52 PM TechChristoph: whell it says timer/counter control
05:52 PM rue_: ok!
05:52 PM TechChristoph: Register B
05:53 PM TechChristoph: and now
05:53 PM TechChristoph: ...
05:53 PM rue_: I dont know if I have a datasheet that different than yours,
05:53 PM rue_: in mine, section 29 is "register summary"
05:54 PM rue_: whats section 29 called in yours?
05:54 PM TechChristoph: debugwire on chip
05:54 PM TechChristoph: debug system
05:54 PM rue_: :) heh
05:54 PM rue_: is there one near the end called "register summary"?
05:54 PM TechChristoph: register description ?
05:55 PM rue_: is it a big table?
05:55 PM TechChristoph: register summary i got it
05:55 PM rue_: ok!
05:55 PM rue_: find TCCR1B in that list
05:56 PM rue_: 0x81
05:56 PM TechChristoph: found it
05:56 PM rue_: ok, on the right side, it tells you what page
05:56 PM TechChristoph: so whats that ?
05:56 PM rue_: I go to page 137
05:57 PM TechChristoph: got it
05:57 PM rue_: this will help you find the details for a register
05:57 PM rue_: so I'm going to go to my page 137, what page is yours on?
05:57 PM TechChristoph: 173
05:57 PM rue_: hah
05:57 PM rue_: ok
05:57 PM rue_: do you see a 'blown up' of the register bit description?
05:58 PM TechChristoph: so it say input capture noise canceler
05:58 PM rue_: scroll down a bit maybe
05:58 PM rue_: oh wait, ya
05:58 PM rue_: ok
05:58 PM rue_: so, this is a bunch of system switches for the timer
05:59 PM TechChristoph: mhm
05:59 PM rue_: TCCR1B = (1<<CS12);
05:59 PM rue_: the code is setting the bit called CS12
05:59 PM TechChristoph: ok
05:59 PM TechChristoph: now i know even less
05:59 PM rue_: if you scroll down a bit, there is another table describing CS12
05:59 PM rue_: it'll come togethor
06:00 PM TechChristoph: ???
06:00 PM TechChristoph: im confused
06:00 PM rue_: see the other table below?
06:00 PM rue_: trust me for a bit, I'll explain
06:00 PM TechChristoph: i get nothing
06:00 PM TechChristoph: maybe arduino is the better way for me
06:01 PM rue_: you dont have a table under it called 'clock select bit description"?
06:01 PM TechChristoph: clock select bit description yes
06:02 PM rue_: ok, so, when only CS12 is set
06:02 PM rue_: what is the description?
06:03 PM TechChristoph: CS11 ??
06:03 PM rue_: just CS12 is set to 1
06:03 PM TechChristoph: 0x82
06:04 PM rue_: so when your looking at the clock select bit desctiption table, CS12 is set to 1, the others are set to 0
06:04 PM rue_: see, for that line, the description says "clkio/256 (From prescaler)" ?
06:05 PM rue_: :) say yes, so i can ge to telling you what it means
06:06 PM TechChristoph: don't get it but ok yes
06:07 PM rue_: so, the avr is a microcontroller
06:07 PM rue_: its speed is operated by a quartz crystal, that runs at 16Mhz
06:07 PM rue_: see the oval silver thing on the circuit board?
06:08 PM rue_: might be 2 of them depending
06:35 PM rue_: see it?
07:28 PM TechChristoph: sorry lost the connection
07:28 PM TechChristoph: was on the train
07:30 PM TechChristoph: i try too find a goot avr-tutorial
07:31 PM TechChristoph: didn't found anything