#avr Logs
Apr 30 2018
#avr Calendar
12:54 AM rue_ is now known as rue_mohr
01:05 AM Casper: tx only is dead simple
01:07 AM rue_mohr: :) I know
01:07 AM rue_mohr: wait let me see
01:08 AM rue_mohr: ouch, blocking and tx only
01:09 AM rue_mohr: written for 9600baud @1.2Mhz
01:11 AM Haohmaru: u cheatz0r
01:11 AM rue_mohr: hell yea
01:11 AM nohitzzzz: god morgon
01:12 AM nohitzzzz: hää hää Haohmaru needs to work today
01:13 AM Haohmaru: why, is today some special day?
01:13 AM nohitzzzz: its vappu aatto
01:13 AM rue_mohr: its the first day of the rest of your life
01:14 AM Haohmaru: vappu who?
01:14 AM * Haohmaru renames nohitzzzz to nohitzwork
01:14 AM Haohmaru: >:)
01:17 AM Emil: Wappu
01:17 AM Emil: *
01:18 AM Haohmaru: who dat?
01:33 AM Haohmaru: dafuq, i got some issues with printf now >:(
01:34 AM Haohmaru: "A minimized version of vfprintf() is available that only implements the very basic integer and string conversion facilities, but only the # additional option can be specified using conversion flags (these flags are parsed correctly from the format specification, but then simply ignored)."
01:35 AM Haohmaru: it doesn't say which formats are supported
01:38 AM nohitzzzz: Wappu? its just some stupid demigod that frat boys like Emil worship
01:39 AM nohitzzzz: so blame Emil
01:40 AM * Haohmaru blames Emil
02:30 AM Haohmaru: i have the feeling that the minimal printf doesn't have %u
02:31 AM Haohmaru: >:(
02:31 AM Haohmaru: nor %X
02:31 AM polprog: theres always itoa
02:38 AM Haohmaru: okay, i managed to jump from the bootloader to the firmware
02:41 AM Haohmaru: now i gotta write a mirc script that loads a .bin and throws it to the bootloader
02:41 AM Haohmaru: meeeh
02:41 AM Haohmaru: ++excuses_to_use_mirc;
02:49 AM polprog: implement mirc on AVR and make an IRC bot that answers AVR's requests. IoT!
02:50 AM Haohmaru: no
04:15 AM Haohmaru: dafuq, mirc says this file is 37049 bytes, windows properties says 37048
04:16 AM * Haohmaru blames Emil
04:19 AM Emil: nohitzzzz: hey now
04:19 AM Emil: I aint no fratboi
04:21 AM Emil: polprog: the very simplest irc implementation is viable on avr
04:23 AM Haohmaru: mirc is much moar than irc
04:36 AM nuxil: i use hexchat. but it doesnt live up to its name. i dont see much of 0x686578206368617474696e6721
04:51 AM nuxil: lvlinux, build your own dac with a atmega324 or something using r2r network. and use a dual opamp package on the output. one as buffer and one to do the gain. you know the gain since you need 18v out and got 5v in. you need a gain of aprox 3.5 or something.
04:51 AM nuxil: pwm is so noisy
04:54 AM nuxil: lvlinux, https://gyazo.com/6d3ef60755e9010ae8e4362c0f80eb72 signal directly from my r2r network using a atmega324 as a dac running with a 16mhz crystal. signal is clean as a whistle :)
05:00 AM nuxil: only shitty thing about making a r2r network. is that if you want a good one. you need tonz of resistors. and you need to sit and mesure alot of them and pic out the ones that are close in values.
05:01 AM polprog: true
05:01 AM nuxil: example you use +-5% resitors. you do no want to mix in thouse who are -5% with thouse who are +5%
05:03 AM thardin: pro tip: +-5% aren't guassian distributed around zero
05:03 AM thardin: it's the ones left over after sorting out the +-1%'s
05:04 AM nuxil: yea but you ge the gausian bell curve if you mesure them anyway :p
05:04 AM thardin: that might depend on manufacturer
05:04 AM polprog: nuxil: i love that scope
05:05 AM nuxil: me scope ?
05:06 AM nuxil: thardin, check out one of eevblogs video about that. kind of interesting. but yea it will also depend on the manufacturer.
05:07 AM thardin: that's where I got it from
05:08 AM thardin: I see he made a follow-up video
05:25 AM Emil: nuxil: pwm is noisy, sure
05:25 AM Emil: nuxil: but pwm is super accurate
05:41 AM * Haohmaru modulates Emil violently
05:41 AM nuxil: what is stable about it? the frequency? thats all thats stable about a pwm dac, you ofend end up needing a bunch of rc filters after it to get something useble.
05:41 AM Haohmaru: nuxil use moar precise resistors
05:41 AM nuxil: that can be tome consuming
05:42 AM nuxil: *time
05:42 AM Emil: nuxil: no, the voltage levels are extremely accurate
05:42 AM Emil: with pwn dac
05:42 AM Emil: you can ask LeoNerd for more
05:43 AM LeoNerd: Me?
05:44 AM Emil: Yeah
05:44 AM Emil: on dacs
05:44 AM nuxil: a dac (not pcm dac) provide good linearity and a short settling time, which is the time required to update output voltage. so a dac is petter than a pwm dac and more presice also.. pwm dac is good for low freq and as a low cost solution.
05:44 AM Emil: SIGH
05:44 AM Emil: "dac" is anythin
05:45 AM nuxil: *standalone dac
05:45 AM nuxil: happy
05:45 AM Emil: (also caps were accidental)
05:45 AM nuxil: ?
05:45 AM Emil: nuxil: no
05:45 AM Emil: dac means just a digital to analog converter
05:45 AM Emil: the way you do that can be anything
05:45 AM nuxil: ok.. a dac that is based on a r2r network internaly. and not pwm :p
05:45 AM Emil: from flash (resistors) to pwm to delta-sigma
05:45 AM nuxil: happy now?
05:46 AM Emil: nuxil: r2r network does _not_ provide good linearity
05:46 AM nuxil: o.O
05:46 AM Haohmaru: not with 5% resistors
05:48 AM Emil: you get good linearity and accuracy with pwm and delta sigma, but they have longish settling times
05:48 AM Haohmaru: and btw, a r2r dac would tempt you to skip having a filter.. and that's not good
05:48 AM nuxil: Haohmaru, i used 1%. i was using 5% as example. besides you dont just cherry pic resisotrs. you need to get equal ones. atleast withwith 0.2% tollerance.
05:48 AM Emil: flash dacs are "instantaneous"
05:48 AM Emil: nuxil: 1% is _horrible_
05:49 AM nuxil: send me money and i'll use 0.1% ones :p
05:50 AM Haohmaru: the impreciseness of the resistors will have a bigger impact on the "smaller" bits (when the signal is quieter)
05:50 AM nuxil: besides r2r rules. you can do cool stuff with the output
05:50 AM nuxil: https://static.wixstatic.com/media/224f09_2fd8a00629814fd1ad94bd989eef0942~mv2.gif
05:50 AM nuxil: :D
05:50 AM Haohmaru: why not make an exponential r2r DAC
05:50 AM Haohmaru: you'd need fewer bits then too
05:50 AM Emil: Anycase
05:50 AM Emil: nuxil: don't say things that aren't true :D
05:51 AM LeoNerd: It's the usual speed-vs-accuracy tradeoff. R2R is fast but inaccurate due to poor linearity; PWM is excellent linearity but slow
05:51 AM LeoNerd: I use PWM DACs for PSU applications, because speed doesn't matter there
05:51 AM Emil: yeah
05:59 AM nuxil: why do you think r2r isnt linear? the linearity grows with the number of bits used. but the resistors grows exponentially.
06:00 AM LeoNerd: R2R doesn't guarantee monotonicity
06:00 AM LeoNerd: Especially around the midpoint, it can be terrible
06:01 AM Haohmaru: add 128 random values, then another 128 random values, and compare the two ;P~
06:06 AM nuxil: LeoNerd, well yea. thats true, thats whty you want buffer the signal and trow in some caps, one would not use a r2r in a psu application, most likely some signal stuff and you be doing decoupling of the signal anyway.
06:06 AM Haohmaru: eh, how does using a buffer help?
06:07 AM Haohmaru: the linearity of the signal from the r2r network is not great, adding a buffer won't really help
06:08 AM nuxil: Haohmaru, a buffer like example opamp has high impedance.. and will not affect the signal from the r2r network "much" you then do whatever you want with the signal decouple it or whatever you need.
06:10 AM Haohmaru: if you don't need to pull lots of current thru the r2r - you could go without the buffer too
06:10 AM Haohmaru: but you still need a filter
06:18 AM polprog: lovely day today
06:18 AM polprog: +27 C
06:19 AM LeoNerd: Not here.. it's cold, wet, grey
06:19 AM Haohmaru: gray
06:19 AM Haohmaru: LeoNerd r u in england or something ;P~
06:19 AM LeoNerd: I'm in the UK. It's grey here :P
06:19 AM Haohmaru: huhuhuhu
06:36 AM nuxil: sunny,clear sky and whooping +2 C
06:46 AM nohitzzzz: flash dac?
06:46 AM nohitzzzz: what is flash dac?
06:46 AM nohitzzzz: it sure is lovely day
06:49 AM nohitzzzz: we had a whole course about AD/DA-converters
06:49 AM nohitzzzz: i should dig up all my notebooks some day
06:54 AM Emil: gah
06:54 AM Emil: it was flash adc
06:54 AM Emil: my bad
07:00 AM nohitzzzz: we are gonna make a game
07:00 AM nohitzzzz: shoplifter simulator 2018
07:01 AM nohitzzzz: http://dancingclown.tech/thief/ we have this old prototype, but we're gonna start from scratch
07:05 AM polprog: if its in VR im in
07:09 AM nohitzzzz: we can make it VR
07:10 AM nuxil: lol the run anim :p
07:10 AM nohitzzzz: yeah it sucks :D
07:10 AM Haohmaru: [13:49] <nuxil> Emil: don't say things that aren't true :D
07:19 AM Emil: Haohmaru: like I said, don't say things that aren't true :D
07:19 AM Haohmaru: u said flash dac
07:19 AM * Haohmaru throws tomatos at Emil
07:21 AM nuxil: heres a hybrid of r2r/pwm dac https://www.edn.com/design/analog/4458772/Hybrid-PWM-R2R-DAC-improves-on-both
07:26 AM Haohmaru: just make the r2r dac exponential
07:26 AM Haohmaru: floating-point-like dac ftw
07:28 AM nuxil: heh
08:33 AM nohitzzzz: so what's your wappu plan, nuxil?
08:35 AM Haohmaru: wappu wappu, cheki cheki
09:19 AM rue_mohr: whats the dac for, I cant work it out in the scrollback
09:21 AM rue_mohr: I want my R-2R to generate 0-90 degrees of a sine wave :)
09:21 AM * rue_mohr starts digging thru the 20% resistor bin
09:28 AM * Haohmaru slaps rue_mohr on da hands with a stick
09:29 AM Haohmaru: why just 0 to 90?
11:37 AM nohitzzzz: someone who nativily speaks english, which is better "shoplifting simulator" or "shoplifter simulator" ?
11:38 AM nohitzzzz: or "shoplift simulator"
11:39 AM Emil: nohitzzzz: first one obviously
11:50 AM antto: do u even lift, bro
11:53 AM polprog: you have to be pretty pumped up to lift a whole shop at once
11:53 AM learath: nohitzzzz: I think I'd go with 'Government'
12:23 PM Emil: learath: that would just be named "fucking you in the ass"
12:25 PM polprog: if you steal 10 bucks from one person its theft but if you steal 10 bucks from a million people its financial engineering
12:25 PM polprog: :P
12:26 PM learath: Emil: fair.
12:26 PM * antto steals 10 bucks from Emil, one million times
12:26 PM polprog: no thats not how it works
12:26 PM learath: antto: that's called 'smart business' :P
12:27 PM antto: Emil u so broke nao
12:28 PM antto: client-centered business ;P~
12:52 PM Emil: antto: sike, that's the wrong bucks!
01:05 PM MrFahrenheit: steam just sent me an email about a game being available on steam, and I have no idea why they did that
02:28 PM nuxil: todays random fact. today it is 25 years since workd wide web became free.
02:28 PM nuxil: *world
02:41 PM day__ is now known as day
02:55 PM polprog: come to poland, see our online jesus https://gizmodo.com/an-enormous-statue-of-jesus-in-poland-just-got-internet-1825509813
02:59 PM hetii: ale przegieli z tym jezuskiem :D
03:02 PM Emil: polprog: :D
03:14 PM polprog: czesc hetii
03:15 PM polprog: Emil: thats right :D
03:17 PM polprog: root@statue:#
03:29 PM Emil: polprog hackerman
03:30 PM polprog: lol ive got FPS counter enabled on steam
03:30 PM polprog: 550 FPS in postal 2
03:31 PM polprog: woah my winamp library grew to 2 days 4 hours now
05:12 PM polprog: MrFahrenheit: are you a musician or am i thinking about someone else?
05:13 PM MrFahrenheit: I like to dabble, but I can't really play a note
05:15 PM polprog: ok
05:15 PM polprog: kinda like me :D
05:30 PM MrFahrenheit: I started learning music theory a few months ago
05:46 PM Emil: Hyvää wappua!
06:05 PM polprog: Emil: http://unix.rulez.org/~calver/pictures/finnish_summer.jpg
06:05 PM polprog: also check out the parent directory
06:05 PM polprog: nsfw at times
06:06 PM Emil: seems about right
06:07 PM Emil: http://unix.rulez.org/~calver/pictures/electro_sex/bild02.jpg
06:09 PM Emil: polprog: nice dump
06:12 PM day__ is now known as day
06:13 PM polprog: indees
06:13 PM polprog: indeed
06:15 PM polprog: christ its like 2005 all over again
06:15 PM polprog: http://unix.rulez.org/~calver/pictures/hax_war.gif
06:16 PM Tom_L: ejsd
06:16 PM Tom_L: woops
06:16 PM Tom_L: what's wrong with 2005???
06:21 PM polprog: nothing. its awesome
06:22 PM day__ is now known as day
06:33 PM Emil: It's a year after H2 came out
06:33 PM Emil: Those were the days
11:30 PM day__ is now known as day
11:46 PM grogjesus_p is now known as grog