#avr Logs
Apr 20 2018
#avr Calendar
01:03 AM polprog: MrFahrenheit: lol
01:06 AM Emil: polprog: I love stories like these
01:06 AM polprog: in polish we call it a "xerocopier" :P
01:17 AM polprog: hey Haohmaru
01:20 AM Haohmaru: mr polprogov
01:22 AM Haohmaru: can i touchy the crystal? - boom, xmega freezes
01:23 AM nux_ is now known as nuxil
01:23 AM nuxil: meh. get a atmega32x
01:23 AM nuxil: i can pull the crystal and put it back and it starts working again :p
01:24 AM Haohmaru: that won't solve my problem
01:24 AM nuxil: i dont know what your problem is.
01:25 AM Haohmaru: in the field, devices are reported to be randomly "freezing" from time to time, that is, the bigger xmega on the board (the brain), yet the smaller one keeps running (it deals with the tcp connection)
01:26 AM Haohmaru: the crystal on the bigger xmega is very close to some relays
01:26 AM Haohmaru: and the overal layout isn't great at all
01:27 AM Haohmaru: i'll see if i can get some interrupt on external clock fail and switch to the internal 32MHz
01:27 AM nuxil: try put a shield around the relay
01:27 AM nuxil: metal case
01:28 AM Haohmaru: datasheet says "External oscillator and PLL lock failure detection with optional non-maskable interrupt"
01:28 AM Haohmaru: smells promising
01:28 AM Haohmaru: oh wait, oscillator? meh
01:35 AM polprog: ATXmega :p
01:38 AM polprog: am i doing this right https://puu.sh/A6T3j/647527f07d.jpg
01:41 AM nuxil: Haohmaru, how is the shielding on the board ? is it in a plasic box exposed to emi, engines stars close by. AC, fridge, fans, chellphones etc?
01:42 AM Haohmaru: currently it's on my desk
01:42 AM Haohmaru: in the feild, it's in a ceiling, in a plastic box
01:42 AM nuxil: but you said its randomly reported to freeez in the field.
01:42 AM Haohmaru: the design is poor, as i mentioned
01:43 AM Haohmaru: yeah
01:43 AM Haohmaru: "by itself"
01:43 AM nuxil: cobber foil tape might do the trick
01:43 AM nuxil: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Copper-Foil-Tape-50mmx20m-EMI-Shielding-Conductive-Adhesive-f-Stained-Glass-P1B4-/263236415979
01:43 AM nuxil: put this inside the box
01:43 AM nuxil: ;)
01:44 AM nuxil: less expensive than getting a metal case just to see if its external interferance thats causing the freez.
01:47 AM Haohmaru: i just tried forcing my phone to "search for mobile operator" and held it as close as i can to the crystal
01:47 AM Haohmaru: nothing happened
01:49 AM nuxil: it might not trigger it, what kind of light is at your celing? tubes, led etc,, aka noisy stuff ?
01:49 AM nuxil: also
01:50 AM nuxil: you said its the crystal is close to a realy. is this a cheap ass chinees relay?
01:50 AM nuxil: all plastic with minimum metal shielding.
01:52 AM Haohmaru: no lights ON here currently, but in the feild, it's in fully closed rooms with no windows, so they have lights there all the time, but no idea what kind since they are behind a very decent diffuser
01:53 AM Haohmaru: i'd guess they aren't fluorescent, but who knows
01:53 AM nuxil: im stuck thinking about that realy, i seen it do nasty stuff. if its not shielded properl, the starting/colapsing magnet field will affect nearby wires/trace.
01:53 AM Haohmaru: the relays are 12VDC, the cheapest kind (sunhold/zettler)
01:54 AM Haohmaru: if i probe the crystal with a scope - insta-freeze
01:54 AM Haohmaru: that's with the probe set to 1X
01:54 AM Haohmaru: on 10X i can probe it and i see the 16MHz freq
01:55 AM nuxil: well. try change cap on you probe
01:55 AM Haohmaru: i'm probing in DC mode ;P~
01:55 AM nuxil: :\
01:55 AM Haohmaru: thing is, after it freezes, when i probe at 10X again - the frequency keeps running
01:55 AM Haohmaru: i think i really need to look into the clock fail interrupt stuff
01:57 AM nuxil: your messing up the capacitance with your probe
01:57 AM nuxil: *youre
01:58 AM Haohmaru: yeah, sure, i know the xtal signal is very very weak
01:58 AM nuxil: try probe a clkout pin instead of the crystal pins.
01:59 AM nuxil: and set up the fuse so you have a clkout pin
01:59 AM Haohmaru: thing is, it doesn't recover even tho the crystal is driven
01:59 AM Haohmaru: the firmware freezes
01:59 AM nuxil: shitty code ? :p
01:59 AM nuxil: jk :)
02:00 AM Haohmaru: i don't have "if (hooman_touchy_da_crystal) { while (1); }" in my code ya know
02:00 AM nuxil: :D
02:01 AM nuxil: what kind of device is it btw ?
02:02 AM nuxil: what does it do besides sit in a plastic box :)
02:03 AM nuxil: i know what to do.
02:03 AM nuxil: just blame Emil :D
02:03 AM Haohmaru: it's kinda like access control
02:04 AM nuxil: battery powered?
02:04 AM Haohmaru: it has a few logic inputs (from buttons/sensors) some RFID readers, and relays for controlling "stuff"
02:04 AM Haohmaru: nah, on-board 12VDC to 3.3V regulator
02:05 AM Haohmaru: but the layout of that is lousy too
02:05 AM nuxil: 0.O
02:05 AM nuxil: linear regulator ?
02:05 AM Haohmaru: switching
02:05 AM Haohmaru: LM2576
02:05 AM nuxil: yay more noise :D
02:05 AM Haohmaru: yup
02:06 AM Haohmaru: but the regulator is on the other end of the PCB, it's closer to the smaller xmega
02:06 AM Haohmaru: the big xmega is right next to 4 relays
02:07 AM Emil: how did this maymay even start
02:07 AM nuxil: try starting of shielding the relays. put come cobber foil tape around the, or some other metal case of you have,
02:09 AM nuxil: the "colapsing/staring" magnetic feilds is creating a voltage/noise on reset and other pins close to them :p
02:10 AM nuxil: Emil, i think it was Haohmaru who started it. i may be mistaken tho :p
02:10 AM Haohmaru: it's kinda impossible to put shielding on the relays because of the locations of some other stuff that are right next to them
02:10 AM nuxil: :\
02:11 AM Haohmaru: and i think it won't help much because.. i think there is thick track, either GND or 12VDC of the relays, which goes right next to the tracks of the xtal and its capacitors
02:11 AM Haohmaru: meh
02:15 AM nuxil: redo your printboard.
02:15 AM nuxil: :D
02:16 AM Haohmaru: i did, but it's not gonna see the light of day coz "we're switching to arm korteks"
02:16 AM Haohmaru: woohoo >:/
02:17 AM nuxil: blasphemy
02:18 AM Haohmaru: btw, this design isn't mine.. i made mine in such a way to put the noisy stuff on one side, and the xmegas on the opposite side (away)
02:25 AM polprog: "hahaha, they ran a data line right through the power supply!" - Maurice Moss
02:38 AM Haohmaru: hm, it's a "non-maskable" interrupt
02:38 AM Haohmaru: it's said to work for external crystals, imma try it
03:01 AM Haohmaru: ugh, weird
03:01 AM Haohmaru: i touched da crystal and it spew my debug message "osc failed", yet it seems frozen
03:15 AM polprog: http://www.fuckit3.com/ lol
03:15 AM nohitzzzz: hehe
03:17 AM Haohmaru: >:)
03:17 AM Haohmaru: >>>:)
03:17 AM * Haohmaru intensifies
05:30 AM nuxil: Haohmaru, try solder a wire from the crystal case/housing to gnd. "if you havent already"
05:32 AM Haohmaru: yeah, but there's no case here
05:32 AM Haohmaru: and i've not seen wires soldered onto xtal bodies
05:33 AM Haohmaru: hm, except maybe those tall xtals which are mounted laying down on one side with a wire holding them down, that wire is soldered probably to ground
05:33 AM nuxil: really ?
05:34 AM Haohmaru: this is a short HC-49 (or whatever) crystal
05:34 AM nuxil: https://i.stack.imgur.com/lOWPo.jpg https://i.stack.imgur.com/vvla0.jpg
05:35 AM Haohmaru: okay but that looks like one of those 32kHz magical RTC crystals
05:35 AM nuxil: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTMUcE7La5yJHh_BIHulI_b8ATN9_9yghtjy-31KWL0dl7DUjS2 :p
05:36 AM Haohmaru: okay, u konvins0r3d me
05:36 AM nuxil: :D
06:30 AM MrFahrenheit: anyone know what I can do with whole grain mustard other than honey mustard glaze?
06:35 AM polprog: put it on thick ham on bread
06:40 AM MrFahrenheit: sounds good, I don't usually put mustard on my sandwiches though
06:43 AM polprog: try it
06:44 AM MrFahrenheit: hah http://www.foodrepublic.com/2015/08/05/pickled-mustard-seeds-the-poor-mans-caviar/
06:47 AM polprog: jesus fuck im in the programming class rn and i just learnt that arrays are numbered the american way, that is starting with zero
06:47 AM polprog: im amazed you can teach shit and be clueless about it
06:47 AM polprog: that clueless
06:47 AM polprog: easy peasy kill me pleasy
06:48 AM MrFahrenheit: americanski?
06:48 AM polprog: da
07:51 AM Emil: polprog: is it the glorious eastern style to do it from 1? :D
07:53 AM Emil: my student budget does not take well to buying gun related things :D
07:53 AM Emil: another 140e *poof*
07:54 AM Haohmaru: blame yourself!
07:54 AM Emil: well, happily only 55e of that is actually something that goes poof :D
07:54 AM Emil: Haohmaru: god damn it :D
07:54 AM Emil: Should have seen that coming
08:04 AM Ashleeee is now known as Ashlee
08:05 AM Ashlee is now known as Ashleee
08:18 AM nux_ is now known as nuxil
03:39 PM polprog: started to lay out the mixer PCB
03:41 PM polprog: ill see if the chassis seller will respond tomorrow or on monday
03:41 PM polprog: anyway, i have a 120x100 square drawn in the PCB program and i can see i could easily add two more channels. want to test the 2 channel version first
03:41 PM polprog: its one og those moments when im truly bored
03:41 PM polprog: of*
04:03 PM nux_: damn- my inet is unstable today.
04:03 PM nux_: polprog, using kicad ?
04:03 PM polprog: nux_: yeah
04:04 PM polprog: nux_: you're shorter, got a haircut? :D
04:06 PM nux_: i need one.
04:07 PM antto: your internetz is instaburu?
04:07 PM antto: blame Emil!
04:07 PM antto: coz.. who else
04:07 PM polprog: have you tried to apply percussive maintenance
04:08 PM polprog: applying*
04:10 PM nux_: i wounder how many more generations before hoomans becomes hairless. if you look at evolution it sure looks like we will become it. from hairy apps to just having hair on head and balls, altho some people are still hairy as apes :p
04:10 PM * polprog
04:11 PM polprog: i guess another thousand years? unless becoming totally smooth will become fashionable
04:12 PM nux_: 1000years. how many generations is that ? 30 ? 3 gen each 100 years ?
04:12 PM nux_: sound little
04:12 PM polprog: kindof
04:12 PM polprog: okay, maybe 5k
04:13 PM polprog: im thinkin if there are any pieces of art that would picture a hairy human or is it slow enough that it didnt change at all since we started to paint
04:14 PM antto: according to art, hoomans were very abstract ;P~
04:15 PM nux_: good art. like portrett isnt that old. we have less than 1500 years with desent pictures as referance
04:15 PM polprog: yeah
04:15 PM polprog: antto: here we can see the people of the 19th century were all triagnular and blue http://www.tate.org.uk/art/images/work/T/T05/T05010_10.jpg
04:16 PM antto: yeah, that
04:16 PM antto: so don't trust art
04:16 PM polprog: trust gpg signed art
04:16 PM nux_: thats abstract art. not really a portrett
04:17 PM antto: how do you know? ;P~
04:17 PM nux_: :D
04:17 PM polprog: that just means you need a constructor for it
04:17 PM * polprog hides behind a void*
04:17 PM nux_: make a template :p
04:18 PM antto: template <typename T> |<insert code here>
04:18 PM antto: <headscratch.gif>
04:18 PM polprog: nux_: https://orig00.deviantart.net/85db/f/2015/314/c/7/foxy_schablone_by_1marco-d9g768k.png
04:19 PM polprog: #define asdasdasd printf("to be implmented");
04:26 PM polprog: night
04:27 PM nux_: already?
04:28 PM nux_ is now known as nuxil
04:28 PM polprog: yeah i wish i was alone at home
04:29 PM nuxil: go solder some stuff :p
04:29 PM antto: make a big solder blob, in the shape of the terminator2 bad guy as he's all molten
05:06 PM polprog: no actually i tested the summing amp on the breadboard, im confident now that it should all work
05:07 PM polprog: what still bothers me is the power supply section... single tl074 chip and a max232 took about 55mA
05:08 PM polprog: the latter one taking barely nothing alone
05:09 PM polprog: this design has total 4 chips and a pair of leds so about 225mA
05:09 PM polprog: im not sure how will the max232 chip behave as im probably abusing it by using it as an analog supply
05:09 PM polprog: whatever, ill just stick caps on the power rails.
05:11 PM polprog: i will probably have to arm myself in a bunch of 47p caps as there are serious noise spikes on the output of a single amp itself (!)
05:12 PM nuxil: i told you long time ago to order some caps from ebay.
05:12 PM polprog: yeah and i didnt get around to doing it
05:13 PM polprog: hmm wait actually those spikes could be the supply.
05:13 PM nuxil: just do it :p
05:13 PM polprog: i need to quickscope the power rails while its running. i guess i have things to do tomorrow now
05:22 PM nuxil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTOSXc4su8c :)
05:34 PM polprog: haha cute :D
05:34 PM polprog: allright gotta go to sleep
09:01 PM _ami_: join #electronics
09:01 PM _ami_: oops
09:01 PM _ami_: morning people!
09:05 PM Casper: you need your coffee
09:06 PM _ami_: Casper, i had tea now. should be functional now.
09:07 PM _ami_: Casper, why i can not send any messages on ##electronics. wonder if they banned me.
09:07 PM Casper: are you identified?
09:08 PM _ami_: ah, no
09:08 PM _ami_: ok, identified now.
09:08 PM _ami_: there is OS war going on there. can't resist myself on not commenting :P
09:24 PM lemm1ngs is now known as lemmings
10:48 PM Tom_L: feed the fire
10:48 PM _ami_: Tom_L, you are late. its over.
10:50 PM Tom_L: i didn't miss a thing
10:51 PM Tom_L: windows is obviously better :)
10:51 PM _ami_: :)
10:51 PM Casper: I totally agree!
10:51 PM Casper: better for everyone else
10:51 PM Casper: that way I have a job!
10:52 PM Tom_L: i use both
10:52 PM * _ami_ uses windows only for banking sites
11:24 PM day__ is now known as day
11:32 PM rue_mohr: that seems backwards