#avr Logs

Apr 10 2018

12:07 AM Emil: morning
02:47 AM Haohmaru: hm, does avrdude omit the 0xFF bytes from the back of the flash when reading from flash to a file?
03:08 AM Emil: shouldnt
03:10 AM nohitzwork: http://www.ti.com/product/cc2652r?HQS=epd-mcu-simp-cc2652r-ensl-pf-zigbee-wwe&DCM=yes
03:10 AM nohitzwork: built in bluetooth
03:12 AM Emil: seems nice
03:14 AM Emil: is there cli tools available?
03:17 AM Emil: makefiles
03:23 AM Haohmaru: a chip which has two arm cortexes inside?
03:23 AM Haohmaru: cortexexexes
03:23 AM Haohmaru: it features pretty much all the thing i don't like.. "wireless" "connectivity"
03:23 AM Haohmaru: * things
03:24 AM _ami_: Haohmaru, chip (cortex, cortex) -> that would be right representation. :D
03:26 AM Haohmaru: i couldn't see how much it costs, the "Buy" page never loads
03:26 AM Haohmaru: i blame Emil for that
03:28 AM Emil: This is not becoming a foking meme on this channel god damnit
03:30 AM Haohmaru: says who
03:31 AM _ami_: Emil, there should be someone to blame for all bugs. :P
03:32 AM _ami_: a scope should have a solild GND - lesson learned
03:37 AM _ami_: solid*
03:56 AM polprog: Or ac coupling ;)
04:14 AM nohitzwork: how do you "dont like wireless connectivity"
04:15 AM nohitzwork: that's not somthing you like or not
04:15 AM nohitzwork: if your project demands it, then you do it
04:15 AM nohitzwork: i would rather have it on the same chip
04:18 AM Haohmaru: if your project relies on imaginary connectivity, ehm, i mean wireless, then ur f*cked ;P~
04:20 AM Emil: :D
04:21 AM Emil: Haohmaru: that's pretty luddite
04:27 AM Haohmaru: it's the truth, Emil, the truth
04:34 AM Emil: naw
04:34 AM Emil: wireless is awesome
04:34 AM Emil: but of course if you can do it wired without hindering functionality then wired of course
05:36 AM polprog: Not having a spool of cat5 on your board?
05:36 AM polprog: Pathetic
05:36 AM polprog: #marconihateteam
05:47 AM MrFahrenheit: https://i.imgur.com/VcL0lnW.jpg
05:48 AM polprog: Hahaha
05:51 AM Emil: :D
07:00 AM wondiws: hi, I've got here a small board that has a AT90USB1286 on it, do you program this with SPI, like the ones used by Arduino?
07:03 AM nuxil: wondiws, does the board have the pinheader mosi, miso sclk ?
07:03 AM wondiws: nuxil, the pins PA0~7 are exposed on the top, the rest on the bottom for use in breadboard
07:04 AM wondiws: so that made me to believe those PA pins are used for programming
07:04 AM wondiws: in the datasheet, they have a double function AD, but I don't know what that stands for, as other pins are already ADC
07:04 AM wondiws: because that was my first idea with the abbreviation AD, analog-digital
07:06 AM nuxil: double ad ? i havent checked the datasheet. but are you sure they dont mean several analoge pins or are refering to 10bit mode /8 bit mode.
07:07 AM nuxil: anyway check the traces for the mosi/miso/scl. and see if they goes to the a "usb chip", in that case you might want to use a usb programmer.
07:08 AM nuxil: but in teory you should be able to in circuit proamming, i think.
07:10 AM nuxil: using normal spi
07:10 AM wondiws: nuxil, alright, thanks
07:11 AM Haohmaru: you forgot the reset pin
07:11 AM nuxil: yea
07:12 AM * Haohmaru punishes nuxil by erasing his OS and replacing it with linux
07:12 AM wondiws: Haohmaru, I know
07:13 AM nuxil: Haohmaru, hold on. i need a new distro on my PI.. install something on cool on it :p
07:14 AM Haohmaru: that's silly, use a proper comput0r
07:21 AM polprog: Here's a nickel kid, get yourself a real computer!
07:22 AM polprog: https://i.imgur.com/z96dZ0x_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
07:23 AM MrFahrenheit: I set my pi3 up as a bench computer, but I hardly ever used it
07:23 AM MrFahrenheit: gonna remove it and just use my laptop in the future
07:24 AM Haohmaru: laptops don't count as "proper" in my book! >:(
07:25 AM MrFahrenheit: I don't care about your book
07:25 AM Haohmaru: >>>:(
07:25 AM * Haohmaru intensifies
07:25 AM MrFahrenheit: well actually, I was gonna go to the toilet, can I borrow it
07:25 AM Haohmaru: >8(
07:26 AM Haohmaru: yes, i write on sandpaper sheets
07:26 AM MrFahrenheit: that's my fetish
07:27 AM nuxil: man.. i need my transparant A4 sheets NAW. where is my mail. i cant make pcb without them.
07:28 AM Haohmaru: cd pcb/
07:28 AM Haohmaru: make
07:28 AM Haohmaru: <nothing happens>
07:28 AM nuxil: i have tried 2 times now with a "NOT Reccomended" method. using toner transfere.
07:28 AM nuxil: cold toner fransfere
07:28 AM Haohmaru: cold? wut
07:28 AM nuxil: using aceton and ehanol
07:28 AM nuxil: https://gyazo.com/787687b80ca1d162fb3e5da9b96a1da7
07:29 AM nuxil: didnt turn out good :(
07:29 AM MrFahrenheit: nuxil, buy them at a store
07:29 AM nuxil: i was in the store. he looked on me like a question mark when i asked for it.. she said no one used it anymore. so they dont take it in to the store.
07:30 AM nuxil: so i had to order online
07:30 AM nuxil: *she
07:30 AM MrFahrenheit: makes sense, transparencies were used for old style projectors
07:30 AM nuxil: yea
07:30 AM nuxil: overheads
07:30 AM nuxil: http://www.instructables.com/id/Heatless-cold-Toner-Transfer-for-PCB-Making/
07:31 AM MrFahrenheit: you can use drafting paper though
07:31 AM nuxil: that method i been trying
07:31 AM MrFahrenheit: in fact, that's what mike recommends (from mikeselectricstuff)
07:31 AM nuxil: aww
07:31 AM nuxil: its awefull :p
07:31 AM nuxil: i think hot transfere is better using some vinyl paper
07:32 AM MrFahrenheit: mikeselectricstuff pcb
07:32 AM MrFahrenheit: * http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/pcbs.html
07:32 AM Haohmaru: that guy has a video of destroying a pic
07:32 AM Haohmaru: i haz much respect
07:33 AM nuxil: Ink-jet printers - Not tried them myself, but I hear very mixed reports from "perfect" to "useless"!
07:34 AM nuxil: ink-jet is useless
07:34 AM nuxil: i have both types of printers.
07:34 AM MrFahrenheit: using a laminator, you can do toner transfer even with regular printing paper, if you use it with transfer paper it ends up pretty much perfect
07:35 AM nuxil: yea. i seen people using laminators. but i dont have one :D
07:35 AM polprog: That article is very good
07:38 AM MrFahrenheit: I actually got some sodium metasillicate from a chemical supplier, but I never tried it
10:05 AM Jartza: nuxil: laminators cost like 20-30€
10:25 AM polprog: im gonna fry some porkchops
10:26 AM kl0wn: porkchop sandwiches
10:27 AM polprog: hmm
11:35 AM MrFahrenheit: Jartza, not in norway, I bet
02:13 PM polprog: http://polprog.net/rozne1/mixer-rev-B.pdf
02:13 PM polprog: i changed the output stage to active
02:13 PM polprog: and added an actual output jack :x
02:15 PM MrFahrenheit: neat
02:15 PM polprog: i think i either find a bit of time to understand and calculate those phase margin related caps, or just ignore them
02:33 PM Emil: polprog: your 1M voltage divider is silly
02:34 PM polprog: which one
02:34 PM polprog: the ones on the input?
02:34 PM Emil: umm
02:34 PM Emil: Isn't it also 100% unnecessary?
02:34 PM Emil: Since you have both rails
02:36 PM polprog: its biasing it by 2.5V for the mute to work nicely
02:36 PM polprog: later stages are "biased" at 0V
02:36 PM Emil: but why
02:36 PM Emil: unnecessary
02:36 PM Emil: 100% unnecessary
02:36 PM polprog: that bias is so the body diode of mos doesnt conduct on
02:36 PM Emil: well
02:36 PM Emil: sure
02:36 PM polprog: its not unnecesary
02:36 PM Emil: but you need to make it stronger
02:37 PM Emil: 1M is too weak
02:37 PM polprog: its 500k, its good
02:39 PM polprog: its all calculated (tm)
02:50 PM polprog: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fvTxv46ano
02:53 PM polprog: Also not sure if yo noticed but the pdf title is the original path
02:54 PM polprog: I still dont know how to feel about making a directory "programming" for code and inside it making "analog" for that
02:54 PM Emil: that's some black magic
02:56 PM polprog: Ill put this on the PCB cos its true
02:57 PM MrFahrenheit: you'll be getting 25uV of noise on those 1M resistors btw
02:57 PM Emil: and that's just the heat noise
02:57 PM MrFahrenheit: yeah
02:57 PM Emil: not even taking into account rf
02:58 PM polprog: Whatever. Thats audio. Also whats the formula for heat noise?
02:58 PM Emil: matteee
02:58 PM Emil: pls
02:58 PM Emil: rf is horrible
02:59 PM Emil: you don't want to fuck it up :D
02:59 PM polprog: Damnit its maximum 40khz maybe 50, stop with that RF
03:00 PM MrFahrenheit: chapter 10 here has all the noise info you'll ever need https://e2echina.ti.com/cfs-file/__key/telligent-evolution-components-attachments/00-52-01-00-00-04-59-46/OP-amp-for-everyone.pdf
03:01 PM polprog: ty
03:02 PM Ameisen: I do too much stuff
03:02 PM Ameisen: I just spent like an hour explaining to someone the name history of France and Germany.
03:03 PM Ameisen: and why Charlemagne wasn't French
03:03 PM Ameisen: good use of my time
03:03 PM polprog: nice
03:06 PM MrFahrenheit: I learned how to write pkg-conf packages and bash completions
03:06 PM polprog: im learning opamps
03:06 PM polprog: i like that book. i wish i had it printed
03:07 PM MrFahrenheit: it has some good info, but horrible pacing
03:07 PM MrFahrenheit: a lot of the book is very bad, it feels more like someone stitched together 10 completely separate booklets into one book
03:07 PM polprog: it was written as an engineer. its more of a memory dump than a book
03:08 PM MrFahrenheit: chapter one tells you what an opamp is, then chapter 4 just assumes you went through an advance feedback theory course
03:08 PM polprog: i should continue reading the art of electronics as well
03:08 PM polprog: still thats useful
03:08 PM nuxil: Jartza, i know. but im more fan of the photoresist method.
03:08 PM MrFahrenheit: as I said, it has a lot of useful info, but more than half the book is bad
03:12 PM nuxil: Jartza, finnaly got something thats working. using the toner method while i wait for my transparant sheets. im mixing cold and warm toner transfere method. using normal A4 sheets.
03:14 PM nuxil: i use a mixure of 6.5 parts "Tuulilasin pesuneste" and 3.5 parts acetone, soak the copper with this solution. then quicly and stedy apply the toner sheet. lets it soak for 5 sec. then poor some pure acetone on top. let it sit for 10 sec. gently wipe off with papertall the execcive. then put "baking pape" ontop and my iron at max for 2 min. :)
03:15 PM nuxil: i tried doing this without the mixture. but it gave worse result.
03:16 PM polprog: Okay. Im gonna change the resistors to 100k
03:18 PM Jartza: nuxil: sounds very tedious :)
03:18 PM Jartza: I use toner transfer paper
03:19 PM nuxil: been experimenting with this all day :p
03:19 PM Jartza: I print my PCB with laser, then insert cleaned copper clad and the toner transfer paper to laminator, after it comes through I throw it in sink with water and let the paper get loose
03:19 PM Jartza: and then just throw the pcb into etchant
03:20 PM nuxil: yes i do that too :)
03:20 PM nuxil: but i think i'll order a laminator
03:20 PM nuxil: :p
03:21 PM nuxil: this method is tedious indeed.
03:27 PM MrFahrenheit: nuxil, what etchant do you use?
03:34 PM nuxil: atm copper suflate or
03:34 PM nuxil: or whatever its called in english
03:36 PM MrFahrenheit: didn't know that was an etchant, it's usually the byproduct
03:36 PM MrFahrenheit: how do you use it?
03:36 PM nuxil: wait. let me check the bags.
03:37 PM MrFahrenheit: could it be sodium (or ammonium) persulphate?
03:37 PM nuxil: sorry, its Natriumpersulfat/ sodimpersulphate
03:37 PM MrFahrenheit: yeah, I have that, it's nice
03:37 PM MrFahrenheit: a bit slow, but I like it slower
03:38 PM MrFahrenheit: even though slow etching is worse, but it's good enough for me
03:38 PM MrFahrenheit: the only issue I have with it is that the solution expires and that it outgasses a lot
03:39 PM nuxil: i notice that if you go below 50 deg C the stuff works real real slow. its best to keep the solution above 50 deg C
03:39 PM MrFahrenheit: I've been meaning to try making cupric chloride etchant, that's infinitely reusable
03:39 PM nuxil: yea
03:40 PM MrFahrenheit: I even calculated the amounts for an ideal solution and got all the chemicals and tools together, and then I didn't feel like making it
03:41 PM nuxil: lol
03:45 PM day__ is now known as day
03:47 PM polprog: Night
03:50 PM nuxil: gnight
03:51 PM nuxil: MrFahrenheit, you lazy bastard :p
03:52 PM MrFahrenheit: it's quite involved though
03:53 PM MrFahrenheit: and even with the addition of h2o2, it takes at least a day for it to finish reacting
03:53 PM MrFahrenheit: maybe more, not sure
03:54 PM thardin: if you get the mix wrong it'll develop clorine gas
03:54 PM thardin: I and the rest of the hackerspace learned that first hand
03:55 PM nuxil: noobs. didnt you know that ?
03:55 PM MrFahrenheit: the final solution also has to have a certain concentration of hcl and a certain amount of cupric chloride in it
03:55 PM nuxil: if you heat chloride etchant at 60+ deg its starts giving off lots of gas :p
03:55 PM thardin: my chemistry teacher was a failed football player who didn't give a shit
03:55 PM thardin: so no
03:55 PM MrFahrenheit: I made a little python application to calculate the ideal quantities
03:56 PM nuxil: heh nice
03:56 PM thardin: landlord came asking wth we were doing outside with gas masks, lab coats and a fuming etch bath
03:57 PM MrFahrenheit: hah
03:57 PM nuxil: lol
03:57 PM thardin: good times
03:57 PM MrFahrenheit: interesting thing about cupric chloride solution is that if you add too much hcl, it turns blue
04:02 PM MrFahrenheit: or was it not enough, can't quite remember now
04:02 PM polprog: Lol
04:02 PM polprog: Fun!
04:04 PM MrFahrenheit: here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjfm0MTDtx8
04:06 PM nuxil: can you do rgb with it ? :p
04:07 PM nuxil: just missing red :p
04:07 PM MrFahrenheit: put your hand in it = red
04:07 PM nuxil: :D
04:26 PM * MrFahrenheit is listening to lando calrissian
05:59 PM njbair: do SRC files specified in the Makefile apply to every included file? I'm getting undeclared function errors that don't make sense.
06:25 PM nuxil: what error?
06:26 PM nuxil: SRC = $(TARGET).c foo.c /libs/bar.c
06:26 PM nuxil: CPPSRC = foo.cpp /libs.bar.cpp
06:26 PM nuxil: ASRC = foo.S /libs/bar.S w for C,C++ and Asm
06:26 PM nuxil: how do you put it in your makefile ?
06:31 PM Tom_L: with at txt editor
06:31 PM * Tom_L hides
06:53 PM nuxil: :)
09:44 PM _ami_: morning avrians
11:35 PM day__ is now known as day