#avr Logs
Apr 09 2018
#avr Calendar
12:03 AM polprog: Morning
12:39 AM _ami_: polprog, good afternoon!
12:41 AM polprog: Back to school
12:44 AM polprog: And back in traffic jam
12:47 AM _ami_: so you are in school bus? :P
12:48 AM _ami_: or funky ride in a car? ;)
12:54 AM polprog: A public bus here
12:54 AM polprog: No school busses in cities
01:25 AM Emil: Ameisen: like I said: its interpretation
01:25 AM Emil: Ameisen: but yes any "true" 1 bit system is impossible
01:26 AM Emil: since without change there is no information to be gained
01:26 AM Emil: however
01:26 AM Emil: you can represent everything as run lenght encoding
04:43 AM Ameisen: pi-ary computing it is
04:43 AM Ameisen: 8-pit MCU
04:44 AM Ameisen: πt? πit?
04:56 AM Emil: :D
05:32 AM polprog: But in a pi-based system, pi is a rational numbrr
05:33 AM Ameisen: yup
05:33 AM polprog: (We should all be using hexadecimal anyway)
05:33 AM polprog: My 12 bday is coming by the way
05:33 AM Ameisen: It's very difficult to represent complex numbers like '1', though
05:35 AM MrFahrenheit: you're gonna be 12?
05:35 AM thardin: base 12 has some merit
05:38 AM polprog: MrFahrenheit: gonna be 12h
05:38 AM MrFahrenheit: so you were born today? amazing
05:39 AM polprog: ??
05:39 AM MrFahrenheit: 12 hours
05:39 AM polprog: Lol
05:39 AM polprog: The joke went so deep i stopped getting it
06:29 AM MrFahrenheit: just saw that they allow preorders of the creality ender 3 for $199 on banggood now
06:35 AM Emil: echo "AddKeysToAgent yes" >> ~/.ssh/config && echo -e 'agentclean() {\n\tssh-agent -k > /dev/null\n}\neval \"$(ssh-agent -s)\" > /dev/null\ntrap agentclean EXIT\n'
06:35 AM Emil: I'll be adding passwords to all my ssh-keys
07:15 AM polprog: https://puu.sh/zZt72/5b083eda89.jpg
07:15 AM polprog: Blergh. Only 2 hours to go
07:15 AM polprog: Its hot today. 25 C
07:44 AM Emil: wot
07:44 AM Emil: that's some foking heat :D
07:45 AM Emil: polprog: nice linear systems
07:45 AM polprog: Polynomials
08:50 AM Emil: polprog: is it really 25C outside?
08:50 AM Emil: How do you live
08:52 AM polprog: At this point might be. 22C
08:52 AM polprog: I have no idea
08:52 AM polprog: Given that i have a beanie on xD
08:53 AM polprog: Its a very nice wind stopper beanie
08:53 AM polprog: And keeps my head cool
08:54 AM polprog: https://puu.sh/zZvzT/191e04776c.jpg
08:54 AM Emil: >beanie
08:54 AM Emil: >keeps head cool
08:54 AM Emil: all my wat
08:55 AM nuxil: polprog, you need a haircut and a shave :p
08:55 AM Emil: naw
08:55 AM polprog: No i dont
08:55 AM polprog: I mean
08:55 AM nuxil: :D
08:55 AM polprog: I shave my mustache but i leave the bears
08:56 AM polprog: Beard*
08:56 AM polprog: I aint touching bears either
08:56 AM polprog: Seriously i thought its a dumb idea but this one isolates pretty good
08:57 AM nuxil: 25 deg down ther. oww. im jeluse. thats like what it is up here at the summer :p, still tonz and tonz of snow here.
08:57 AM Emil: polprog: that's 25C outside?
08:57 AM Emil: wottofuk
08:57 AM Emil: apparently yeah
08:57 AM polprog: Google says 26
08:58 AM polprog: Its scorching
08:58 AM polprog: You and your 10c in helsinki
08:58 AM polprog: Lucky >:(
08:58 AM nuxil: how the hell can you go wear a cap or whatever its called on your head when its 25 deg C
08:59 AM polprog: I told you, it isolates the heat
08:59 AM polprog: Could be white tho
09:00 AM nuxil: isolate ? from what ? your head is warmer than the enviourment :p ?
09:00 AM nuxil: you freezing on your head at 25 deg ?
09:00 AM polprog: Lol
09:00 AM polprog: Im all good ;)
09:01 AM nuxil: :)
09:53 AM Emil: nuxil: it's the style that matters
09:53 AM polprog: i need to design an invitation to my 18 bday
09:53 AM Emil: I would personally d i e
09:53 AM Emil: how nerdy do you want it to be?
09:53 AM polprog: lolwaht
09:53 AM polprog: not too nerdy
09:53 AM polprog: i was thinking uncle sam saying "i want you on my party:
09:53 AM polprog: "
09:57 AM Emil: "18bad\nmusic\nparty"
09:59 AM Emil: if you want to sound nerdy you can say 18bad means 18th birth a (year) day
10:09 AM nuxil: when do you turn 18?
10:10 AM nuxil: is 18 like the big year in poland too? as in youre considered an adult.
10:11 AM nuxil: i remember my 18 birday. oh wait. no i dont, got to way to wasted to remember anything :p
10:54 AM polprog: end of may
10:55 AM polprog: 18 is the adulthood age in poland
10:59 AM nuxil: remember me to send you one of these :D http://www.dumbstart.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/gamer-birthday-cards-level-up-white-background-completing-simple-and-elegant-stunning-adding-by-beautiful-design-looked-so-gorgeous.jpg
11:06 AM polprog: haha
11:06 AM polprog: ill show you when im done
11:20 AM MrFahrenheit: wait, you're not even 18 yet?
11:20 AM * MrFahrenheit deletes the pics
11:24 AM polprog: https://puu.sh/zZzSY/e283882163.png what do you think?
11:28 AM polprog: for an A5 sized invitation
11:48 AM MrFahrenheit: makes me wanna shout, "fuck you, I won't do what you tell me" over and over
12:06 PM MrFahrenheit: I just configured emacs in daemon mode, such fast start times
12:06 PM nuxil: my Uv-box is done now.
12:06 PM nuxil: https://gyazo.com/fb200032666e1863ad13ad01c4037742
12:06 PM nuxil: checking for Hotspots. https://gyazo.com/68aae3f8e42749208cd45f1f3e5f88c4
12:06 PM nuxil: adding a diffuser https://gyazo.com/14406391ce60917b3ad823b866821a68
12:06 PM nuxil: recheking hotspots https://gyazo.com/50ce1506170dec7f68cc32bc23e209fe
12:06 PM nuxil: https://gyazo.com/31c5a022fa938e7ac608e5ffdf0109a7
12:07 PM nuxil: :D
12:07 PM nuxil: time to test it
12:07 PM MrFahrenheit: using leds?
12:07 PM nuxil: yea
12:07 PM nuxil: uvleds
12:08 PM nuxil: 40 of them.
12:08 PM MrFahrenheit: I recently bought a uv nail lamp, was considering making it into an exposure box, but I'm not sure
12:09 PM nuxil: why not
12:10 PM MrFahrenheit: effort
12:10 PM Tom_L: kinda small... you should commit! http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/silk_batch_cure.jpg
12:10 PM MrFahrenheit: I hear using a light guide improves results
12:11 PM nuxil: Tom_L i can do a 9cmx18cm on it. big enuf for small projects :)
12:11 PM Tom_L: the commercial ones are similar but have a conveyor running thru them
12:11 PM Tom_L: and probably hotter bulbs
12:12 PM MrFahrenheit: https://nourish.je/projects/collimating-filter-for-uv-exposure-box/
12:12 PM MrFahrenheit: you could 3d print that on your printer
12:12 PM nuxil: meh it will take ages :p
12:12 PM MrFahrenheit: well make a smaller one for your smaller box
12:14 PM Tom_L: smells like ozone when you bake em
12:14 PM nuxil: i'll just put a bucket over it :p
12:21 PM polprog: MrFahrenheit: my emacs takes only 1 s to cold start
12:22 PM polprog: compiling QUCS to play with stuff
12:22 PM polprog: simulate this and that
12:22 PM polprog: for when falstad is not enough :D
12:28 PM MrFahrenheit: polprog, running on an atom cpu?
12:28 PM polprog: no, quad core i3
12:28 PM polprog: 4x3Ggz
12:28 PM MrFahrenheit: well there you go
12:29 PM polprog: are you running on an atom>
12:29 PM polprog: ?
12:29 PM polprog: im thinking what could hog emacs like that -- it must have run on older hardware (lisp machines, 286 ...)
12:30 PM MrFahrenheit: my laptop is an atom, yes
12:30 PM polprog: what makes it start so slowly
12:31 PM MrFahrenheit: I have evil mode, and I'm using package management
12:37 PM polprog: qucs need a bit more work
12:37 PM polprog: crashes a bit :(
12:38 PM MrFahrenheit: it sucks
12:38 PM MrFahrenheit: it somehow has a worse user interface than ltspice
12:38 PM polprog: kinda
12:38 PM polprog: i need to check out ltspice
12:40 PM nuxil: i like ltspice's interface :D
12:41 PM Emil: nuxil: so regarding that plastic
12:41 PM Emil: you sure it blocks uv?
12:41 PM Emil: Or diffuses it?
12:42 PM nuxil: Nothing special about that "plast bag" its dosent block UV. its just used to diffuse the light. remove the hotspots
12:48 PM nuxil: Emil, besides. if you want uvresistant plastic, it usually comes in black. just look at uv resistant zipties. and the prize on them vs normal zipties. :\
12:49 PM nuxil: plastic in general hates UV
01:05 PM MrFahrenheit: I think it depends on the range, iirc glass blocks uv-b but not uv-a
01:05 PM nuxil: it also depends on type of plastic
01:07 PM nuxil: these days there are so many wariants and mixes
01:07 PM MrFahrenheit: uv-c is the most dangerous one, burns skin, retinas, bacteria, makes ozone...
01:07 PM nuxil: *variant
01:08 PM nuxil: yea
01:11 PM MrFahrenheit: I need to repeat my uv-a sterilisation experiment, I have agar agar and paraseal now
01:12 PM polprog: Paraseal is like parafilm?
01:12 PM MrFahrenheit: it is parafilm, I misremembered the name
01:12 PM polprog: I used it once. Its pretty cool
01:13 PM MrFahrenheit: yeah
01:14 PM Emil: nuxil: ...
01:14 PM Emil: nuxil: you didn't understand
01:14 PM Emil: the "diffusion" can be just what you think it does
01:15 PM Emil: it might do absolutely nothing
01:18 PM kini: is avr-gcc still a separate thing, or is it all upstreamed into gcc now?
01:18 PM kini: I can't seem to find any avr-gcc versions newer than 4.x
01:18 PM Emil: kini: it has always been a part of gcc
01:19 PM nuxil: ah i see what you mean, well yea. as i said. "time to test" :p
01:19 PM kini: Oh really? Odd that my linux distro ships it as a separate package where all the tools are prefixed with "avr-" then, hmm
01:19 PM nuxil: but does only visible light refract ?
01:19 PM Emil: kini: of course they do
01:19 PM nuxil: when it hits a object of transparancy ?
01:19 PM Emil: kini: the exact same as shipping arm-none-eabi
01:19 PM Emil: kini: it's not odd, your words are just wrong
01:20 PM Emil: kini: anycase, https://emil.fi/toolchain for building it
01:20 PM MrFahrenheit: $ pacman -Si avr-gcc | grep -i version >> Version : 7.3.0-1
01:21 PM kini: OK, I'm confused -- if I were compiling gcc from source, wouldn't it be possible to set my configure options so I'd have both the x86 and avr backends (and whatever other backends I wanted) available?
01:21 PM kini: Perhaps your point is that the distro wants to separate the backends into different packages because most users don't want all possible backends?
01:21 PM kini: Thanks for the link!
01:23 PM Emil: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/20587490/does-gcc-support-multiple-target-architectures
01:24 PM kini: Ah, I see. Sorry, never used gcc on anything but boring old x86 before :)
02:07 PM polprog: x86 aint boring
02:08 PM polprog: its amazing how you can make something this atrocious
02:10 PM polprog: joking
02:10 PM polprog: its just like any other arch really
02:10 PM polprog: cant wait to find enough time to write some sparc64 assembly
02:20 PM Casper: x86 assembly seems atrocious, but in C or better it look ok I think?
02:21 PM polprog: in C you dont really care what it will run on
02:21 PM polprog: unless you mean the inline assembly
02:21 PM polprog: which is, in my opinion, nicer in general
03:44 PM Ameisen: x86 just has a lot of legacy behind it.
03:45 PM polprog: True
03:45 PM polprog: "Optimize your photodiode"
03:45 PM Ameisen: It's built onto itself. A modern Skylake chip can still technically run real mode 16-bit programs.
03:45 PM Ameisen: it has all the circuitry for it.
03:45 PM polprog: I thought it was a viagra ad but its analog devices
03:45 PM polprog: I know
03:46 PM polprog: They do in bios. Pretty cool :D
03:46 PM Ameisen: well, that's the mode the CPU starts in :|
03:46 PM Ameisen: your bootloader is 16-bit real mode as well
03:46 PM Ameisen: it handles the transition to 32-bit protected mode or 64-bit long mode
03:46 PM Ameisen: not particularly complex code, still need to do it though
03:48 PM Ameisen: Interestingly, many kernels running on 32-bit or 64-bit actually embed a simple 16-bit real mode emulator for x86
03:48 PM Ameisen: do you know why?
03:49 PM polprog: I tried to do it.. Tried to write a piece of assembly that would give a sign of life (print a char with bios interrupt), then get out of real mode and call the C payload - that would have a putchar function that jumped back into real node and put a char with the interrupt, then go back to normal
03:49 PM polprog: Ameisen: let me gueas
03:50 PM polprog: To display a wrong arch message if they kernel is booted on a 16 bit cpu?
03:50 PM Ameisen: No. The bootloader would handle that.
03:50 PM polprog: Ah
03:50 PM polprog: Why?
03:50 PM Ameisen: To run BIOS interrupt routnes
03:50 PM Ameisen: routines
03:50 PM Ameisen: which are 16-bit realmode x86
03:50 PM polprog: Ah
03:50 PM Ameisen: so, you call them using the emulator instead.
03:50 PM polprog: Yeah i just described that
03:50 PM polprog: :S
03:51 PM polprog: Didnt get it working though. I should try again
03:51 PM Ameisen: since you cannot call them from 32-bit or 64-bit mode
03:51 PM polprog: Yea
03:51 PM MrFahrenheit: polprog, osdev wiki
03:51 PM Ameisen: I've written most of a secondary bootloader
03:51 PM Ameisen: my brain tends to start hurting when I get into virtual memory
03:52 PM Ameisen: and have to write paging systems
03:52 PM Ameisen: and it's a pain to debug
03:53 PM MrFahrenheit: I just wrote a hello world os with asm and c when I was younger, stopped there
03:53 PM polprog: MrFahrenheit: i had a look there but what i learnt is that osdev is hard and you shouldnt touch it
03:54 PM polprog: Super into article
03:54 PM polprog: I will look there again maybe. Later when i go back to x86 poking
03:54 PM MrFahrenheit: it's not that much harder than uc development (I mean, for a toy os), just super tedious
03:56 PM polprog: Yeah
03:56 PM polprog: I just didnt like the approach
04:11 PM MrFahrenheit: some rust guys are making an interesting os called redox
04:12 PM MrFahrenheit: you're heard of "everything is a file"? redox goes with "everything is a url"
04:15 PM Ameisen: The main difficulty with developing kernels for higher architectures isn't isolated to x86
04:15 PM Ameisen: it's mainly just that the systems can get pretty complex
04:15 PM Ameisen: and are very difficult to debug
04:15 PM Ameisen: If a paging system fails... how the hell do you sanely debug that
04:16 PM Ameisen: a url and a file in Unix terminology are basically the same thing
04:16 PM Ameisen: so... they're making Unix?
04:18 PM polprog: Yeah
04:18 PM polprog: But in rust
04:18 PM polprog: The name suggest the only point of that system is that its written in rust
04:38 PM MrFahrenheit: Ameisen, lots of things are hard to represent as a file, buy easy as a url
04:38 PM MrFahrenheit: *but
04:48 PM Ameisen: I mean, Unix represents _everything_ as a file
05:03 PM Emil: MrFahrenheit: wot
05:03 PM Emil: MrFahrenheit: url, which mostly translated to uri, is exactly representable by file
05:05 PM MrFahrenheit: a url is a generalisation of a file url
05:18 PM Ameisen: A url is just a resource locator of some kind.
05:18 PM Ameisen: any resource can be abstracted as a file
05:19 PM MrFahrenheit: if a url isn't a generalisation of a file, then what's the result of ls http:// supposed to be?
05:24 PM Emil: MrFahrenheit: whatever you want it to be
05:25 PM Ameisen: If your ls is designed to handle protocols, I imagine it would try to find 'root' using the HTTP protocol talking to itself.
05:25 PM Ameisen: not sure what that would do exactly, that'd be your implementation's job
05:25 PM Ameisen: though technically that would be http:///...
05:30 PM MrFahrenheit: the url is http://, adding a slash implies it's a filesystem with a root directory, which it is not
05:30 PM Ameisen: http:// is not a complete URL
05:30 PM Ameisen: you've indicated the protocol, but not the resource.
05:31 PM MrFahrenheit: ok, ls http://*
05:31 PM Ameisen: if your ls were designed to handle protocols other than 'filesystem'? That's whatever you implemented it to do
05:31 PM Ameisen: I suspect it will take a very long time.
05:32 PM MrFahrenheit: and where do files live?
05:32 PM Ameisen: wherever the protocol says they do.
05:32 PM MrFahrenheit: right
05:33 PM * Ameisen goes and writes ls with protocol support
05:34 PM * Ameisen scraps that, and just implements protocol support at the vfs layer
05:35 PM MrFahrenheit: page 6 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1630
05:35 PM Emil: MrFahrenheit: mate
05:35 PM Emil: MrFahrenheit: https:// is not url
05:35 PM Emil: and https://* matches all https resources
05:36 PM Emil: neither is useful
05:36 PM MrFahrenheit: no one mentioned usefulness
05:36 PM Emil: Neither provides anything over thinking as files
07:08 PM grog_b is now known as Grogdor
11:18 PM polprog: Morning
11:27 PM day__ is now known as day
11:44 PM rue_mohr: hey