#avr Logs
Apr 06 2018
#avr Calendar
12:15 AM _ami_: https://www.apress.com/fr/book/9781484236239 - book on stm32 & libopencm3.
12:20 AM _ami_: https://www.amazon.com/Beginning-STM32-Developing-FreeRTOS-libopencm3/dp/1484236238
12:25 AM rue_mohr: hmmm
01:09 AM * Ameisen sits and continues designing an ISA fo a VM
01:34 AM JanC_ is now known as JanC
02:22 AM Emil: nohitz: some :D
02:23 AM Emil: >IMPORTANT: The API of the library is NOT yet considered stable! Please do not rely on it, yet! Changes to function names, macro names, etc. can happen at any time without prior notice!
02:23 AM Emil: Which is why I don't want to use libopencm3 :D
02:24 AM Xark: Sounds like a fun ride! :)
02:34 AM Thrashbarg: open sores software
03:00 AM _ami_: Emil, you can add libocm3 repo as submodule in your project to make sure your project compiles and work with libocm3.
03:01 AM Emil: https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/screencasts
03:02 AM _ami_: git* submodule
03:39 AM antto: hm, why is RAMSIZE not defined for atmega2561 :~(
04:12 AM antto: i blame Emil
04:12 AM antto: ..by default
04:15 AM polprog: Emil: this link looks nice
04:15 AM polprog: Thanks
04:19 AM polprog: Emil: https://youtu.be/9PzHW1gWGVk
07:39 AM Emil: antto: comeon now :D
07:50 AM nuxil: <Emil> >IMPORTANT: The API of the library is NOT yet considered stable! Please do not rely on it, yet! Changes to function names, macro names, etc. can happen at any time without prior notice!
07:50 AM nuxil: eww. that sounds like a alpha software
07:51 AM skz81: polprog, hopefully, electronic music evolved :p :p https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMWp4Gta0mg&t=1761s
07:52 AM nuxil: im glad i havent spend time on this smt32. it feels like it has a long long way to go to get on pair with avr-gcc when it comes to libs and such.
07:52 AM skz81: heyp, I put a timestamp ! Unwanted / non relevant
07:53 AM nuxil: *stm
08:28 AM nuxil: kids these days. no taste in real music, all it is is.dunk dunk dunk dunk dunk.
08:31 AM Emil: nuxil: hey old man, get on with the tiems!
08:32 AM nuxil: hehe. i'll stick to good old. pop,rock and some metal :)
08:33 AM MrFahrenheit: careful, r/lewronggeneration is watching
08:34 AM skz81: nearly 40yo "kid" here :p
08:35 AM nuxil: 40yo body with 18yo mind ? :p
08:35 AM skz81: kindof yeah :)
08:35 AM nuxil: :D
08:35 AM skz81: better than the opposite I guess
08:36 AM nuxil: a friend of mine just turned 40. i told him. youre not 40, youre 18 with 22 years of experiance :D
08:36 AM skz81: nice one, i'll try to remember that :)
08:49 AM polprog: nuxil: i played that track cos it had enough dynamic range to trigger the peak on beats
08:50 AM polprog: nuxil: https://youtu.be/xK08qmwz-w8
08:50 AM polprog: What about this?
08:50 AM nuxil: if you want music with dynamic range. get some old cd's or vinyls that is ealty 80's. before the loadness war started. it wrecked alot of dynamic in the music.
08:51 AM polprog: Ijr
08:51 AM polprog: Ikr*
08:52 AM polprog: I couldnt be bothered to move my stereo. So i was feeding it from my phone
08:53 AM MrFahrenheit: so what's the deal with kendrick lamar, everyone says he's so great, but I had a listen and it's not doing much for me
08:55 AM nuxil: never heard of him until today. checked out his name on youtube. meh. rnb,rap or whatever its called. not my type :)
08:56 AM MrFahrenheit: he did the black panther soundtrack
09:05 AM polprog: So thats the whole deal
09:05 AM polprog: He did the soundtrack
09:05 AM polprog: https://puu.sh/zXtme/84f72328e1.jpg
09:07 AM MrFahrenheit: cabbage?
09:08 AM nuxil: you use gas in poland?
09:08 AM polprog: Spaghetti
09:08 AM nuxil: gas is not normal to use here
09:08 AM polprog: Some people do. We also use gas for heating, so it wasnt a problem to put a gas cooker as well
09:09 AM nuxil: we use electricity for heating and cooking. its rare you see someone with a gas stove here in norway.
09:12 AM MrFahrenheit: norway is one of the worlds biggest electricity consumers, per capita
09:12 AM MrFahrenheit: iceland is ahead, but they make loads of aluminium
09:13 AM nuxil: yea.but 99% is clean energy
09:13 AM nuxil: from waterfalls.
09:13 AM nuxil: no charcoal or nucliar shitt
09:14 AM MrFahrenheit: nuclear is fine, just don't be dumb with it
09:15 AM nuxil: i agree to disagree :p , nuclear is not fine. it will be fine the day you know how to neutralize the radioactive waste.
09:15 AM nuxil: atm its just stockpilling
09:18 AM LeoNerd: It's not great, but it's still better than anything CO2-emitting
09:25 AM skz81: <nuxil> it will be fine the day you know how to neutralize the radioactive waste. >> and optionally, block tsunami waves
09:27 AM MrFahrenheit: or just make the people building the plants not be corrupt mafia types
09:27 AM MrFahrenheit: fat tony's nuclear plant
09:27 AM antto: some folks here are making burnable "fuel" brickettes (how is that spelled even) out of car tyres (illegally)
09:27 AM antto: they are cheaper and dirtier than coal
09:37 AM polprog: in the morning i tried to put together a proto of my mixer (a whole proto - 2 stereo channels) as i have been only testing parts of it on the breadboard
09:37 AM polprog: but it took me 3 hours to put together a mono mute
09:37 AM polprog: fuck it. i dont have will nor parts for the whole thing
09:37 AM polprog: i started to lay out an smd pcb
09:41 AM Jartza: ahh
09:42 AM Jartza: I need to layout a pcb myself too this weekend
09:42 AM Jartza: good reminder
09:42 AM * LeoNerd does that most weekends ;)
09:42 AM polprog: nuxil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs3BXVTF7mw
09:43 AM polprog: nuxil: check that out. I love it
10:59 AM skz81: polprog, don't worry... I stupidly wasted my afternoon... Trying to put back an ENC28J60 working. Inverted Reset and CS....
10:59 AM * skz81 bangs his head on a wall
11:00 AM polprog: rofl
11:00 AM polprog: i think i had a similar problem once as well
11:02 AM skz81: I think I misplugged it monthes ago, before I left the breadboard alone... Also, I wasted some time this morning to find it out :p
11:02 AM polprog: whoops
11:02 AM polprog: im a bit tired. i think ill finish the board tomorrow
11:03 AM skz81: And... Just took the exact same wiring, without checking. Ha fuck anyway it works now. Real working this week-end (uIP integration)
11:04 AM skz81: polprog : by the way, while searching the enc28j60 breadboard... I found my old high school calculator we were talking about, few days (weeks ?) ago.
11:04 AM polprog: oh
11:04 AM polprog: nice
11:04 AM skz81: It's... Dirty...
11:05 AM skz81: Unsure it still works (didn't try yet)
11:05 AM polprog: shouldnt be a problem to revive it for you
11:05 AM skz81: but i laughed
11:05 AM skz81: Hummm unsure I even want to try....
11:06 AM skz81: plus i'm more a software guy, not very "manual"...
11:06 AM skz81: (I just proved it today)
11:08 AM skz81: If someone wants to try... I give it for free :p
11:20 AM nuxil: i want it :p
11:20 AM nuxil: its a ethernet controller right ?
11:22 AM MrFahrenheit: I've noticed a lot of people calling abs dead as far as 3d printing filaments are concerned, so it was funny to see this one filament company label their abs product category "ABS NOT DEAD"
11:23 AM nuxil: abs is not totaly dead. but pretty much.
11:23 AM antto: lego is made with ABS afaik
11:24 AM MrFahrenheit: https://i.imgur.com/3Gg1eK6.png
11:24 AM gruetzko- is now known as gruetzkopf
11:25 AM nuxil: seem like people prefere PETG over abc.
11:25 AM nuxil: but abs can give you a nice smooth shiny model if you put it in acetone vapor.
11:25 AM skz81: <nuxil> its a ethernet controller right ? >> Nope ! it's just an old graphic casio
11:26 AM skz81: you're confusing between an old talk about calcs... And my current freetime project
11:26 AM skz81: but you can try to hook the eth controller on the old casio !
11:26 AM nuxil: MrFahrenheit, abs has big problems with warping. you need a enclosure to get good prints from what i hear. else it will just warp
11:27 AM nuxil: skz81, http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/en022889 ??
11:27 AM nuxil: that this thing you gonna give away ?
11:28 AM skz81: nuxil, that's my freetime project. I was proposing to give my old calc
11:28 AM nuxil: ah. ok :)
11:29 AM MrFahrenheit: nuxil, that's what I heard too, an enclosure with a high and stable temperature
11:29 AM nuxil: yup
11:29 AM skz81: nuxil : a PCB with this on it is 8€ on amazon... even 2€ if you can wait...
11:29 AM skz81: (with enc28j60 + eth plug)
11:30 AM skz81: and xtal, and few passive components
11:30 AM skz81: anyway, brb
11:32 AM nuxil: MrFahrenheit, have you ordered abc filament ?
11:32 AM MrFahrenheit: I'm not ordering any until I have the machine
11:32 AM nuxil: i think you should stick to pla to start with. from what i have read. its the best type to get started with,
11:33 AM nuxil: ok
11:33 AM MrFahrenheit: I think I'll order locally at first so I won't have to wait long
11:34 AM nuxil: yea. i have done that. i have 360M in order on ebay. but since it takes forever i ordered some form my contry aswell.
11:35 AM nuxil: http://3dprint.no
11:36 AM MrFahrenheit: thankfully it's much cheaper here :P
11:38 AM nuxil: i bet its 1/2 the price where you are compared to this.
11:41 AM Jartza: date +%s%6N
11:41 AM Jartza: oops
11:41 AM Jartza: wrong window :D
11:42 AM MrFahrenheit: I don't get where these people find $8/kg filament :S
11:42 AM nuxil: what are you working on now ?
11:42 AM nuxil: MrFahrenheit, Ebay :p
11:42 AM nuxil: but i think twise about buying so cheap. might be real real bad quality
11:43 AM MrFahrenheit: can't find anything below $25 on ebay
01:09 PM nuxil: MrFahrenheit, a friend of mine just droped by me with these :D
01:09 PM nuxil: https://gyazo.com/061bd479157624924dd6220dfb4bbd15
01:09 PM nuxil: 1kg blue pla, and 0.6kg transparant pla :D
01:09 PM nuxil: doing my 1st "none functional" print with the transparant one
01:32 PM MrFahrenheit: ooh, nice
01:40 PM cehteh: mhm eventually i need a 3d printer too :D
01:40 PM cehteh: http://public.pipapo.org/copter250.png
01:42 PM MrFahrenheit: is that a quadcopter thing?
01:42 PM cehteh: yup
01:42 PM MrFahrenheit: neat
01:43 PM cehteh: plan is to 3D print the prototype, then build a negative mold form it and make frame in carbon fiber
01:43 PM kl0wn: printing 200 mounts for access points right now -_-
01:43 PM cehteh: i already did one prototype by hand, but that mold didnt turned out perfectly
01:45 PM cehteh: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnLBV9GWcAAVDK-.jpg -> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnuPBnFXEAAnSUn.jpg -> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqFZ0O5XEAEWSqD.jpg
01:45 PM polprog: the mechanical keyboard guys used to print a keycap, then make a neg mold out of sillicon, and fill it with some abs mix
01:46 PM polprog: cehteh: kewl
01:46 PM cehteh: a friend just prints his own keyboard completely, that occupies his printer since :D
01:47 PM polprog: lol
01:47 PM polprog: he should have printed several printers and distribute the job
01:47 PM cehteh: he told me in about 2 weeks we can print the copterv frame
01:48 PM cehteh: was pita enough to adjust the first one, but he overenginnered stuff, can print 0.01mm layers which gives pretty smooth surfaces
01:48 PM cehteh: (just takes forever :D)
01:51 PM cehteh: i am just in contact with someone with a CNC mill, maybe (if possible and not too expensive) we can mill the negative mold right away
01:52 PM MrFahrenheit: I might make a split keyboard some day, something like the ergodox
01:54 PM cehteh: something like that is what my friend is printing, super fancy/complicated ergo thingy
01:54 PM MrFahrenheit: so why does it take so long, is he making a huge case for it?
01:54 PM MrFahrenheit: cause you just need the switch plate and the base to mount it to
01:55 PM polprog: holy crap
01:55 PM polprog: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoYSCuAwPUg
01:55 PM polprog: 1987 CRT touchscreen in a Buick Riviera
01:59 PM cehteh: haha .. i always forget that you are the youngster here :D
01:59 PM polprog: i mean. CRT touchscreen
01:59 PM polprog: thats not something you see everyday
02:00 PM cehteh: yeah
02:00 PM * cehteh remembers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf1QJtNgtDI .. my farther had one
02:04 PM polprog: because in late 80 this was the top car in the eastern bloc
02:04 PM polprog: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Fso_Polonez_1.6_SLE.jpg
02:04 PM polprog: whole 87 HP
02:04 PM polprog: :D
02:04 PM polprog: doesnt look too bad but please no
02:05 PM cehteh: :)
02:05 PM polprog: and rear drive.
02:05 PM polprog: bleh
02:05 PM cehteh: rear drive is nice in some conditions
02:05 PM cehteh: my bicycle has rear drive too :D
02:05 PM polprog: when on reverse gear
02:05 PM polprog: :D
02:06 PM polprog: no, really. Especially in that thing with no electronics. any water/snow on the road and i think youre done
02:07 PM cehteh: rather the opposite, we had a benz back in the 70's with rear drive and gone though the alps wher no oher cars went
02:08 PM MrFahrenheit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbB3iGRHtqA
02:09 PM polprog: yeah. meanwhile in DDR. the trabant
02:09 PM polprog: MrFahrenheit: classic
02:09 PM MrFahrenheit: SCOOOOOTEEERRR!
02:09 PM skz81: <cehteh> http://public.pipapo.org/copter250.png >> unsure i would trust such a frame... Carbon fiber for the win !
02:10 PM skz81: <cehteh> plan is to 3D print the prototype, then build a negative mold form it and make frame in carbon fiber >> ouuups ok
02:10 PM polprog: MrFahrenheit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtiXUrQ-iD4
02:11 PM polprog: this was the raveish scooter
02:12 PM MrFahrenheit: what about hyper hyper
02:12 PM polprog: that too
02:12 PM MrFahrenheit: I'm actually just listening to this ironically, I'm not a fan
02:12 PM polprog: or the whole m not a fan [21:10] [polprog(+i)] [9:Freenode/#avr(+cnt)] [Act: 2,23]
02:12 PM polprog: [#avr] or the whole
02:12 PM polprog: damn
02:12 PM polprog: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OHNI_FfZxo
02:12 PM polprog: this
02:12 PM polprog: me too
02:13 PM polprog: this is more trance-ish
02:13 PM polprog: i remember having that CD when i was 7
02:13 PM MrFahrenheit: I remember the hyper hyper official video had this 1995 cgi fish
02:13 PM antto: doesn't scooter put crowd sounds as part of his music?
02:14 PM polprog: hmm never seen that video
02:14 PM polprog: nice
02:14 PM polprog: and this word art flying around
02:16 PM skz81: <polprog> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoYSCuAwPUg >> do you see how the guy i dressed in the screen reflection ? That's FAT TONY !!! lol
02:17 PM polprog: rofl panther suit
02:19 PM MrFahrenheit: I remember seeing a few interviews with the scooter guy back when I watched german tv, always seemed like a friendly guy
02:20 PM polprog: this mixer board is a bit of a challenge
02:21 PM polprog: never laid out a board without a single main chip
02:21 PM polprog: this one is just a whole bunch of components
02:21 PM polprog: i cant wait to make it to see if it works
02:21 PM antto: put a dummy chip!
02:22 PM polprog: a dummy MSP430, an stm32, a max232 is already there, maybe some nixie drivers
02:22 PM polprog: false leads for those who would try to reverse engineer it
02:23 PM antto: if you need a chip just for a decoy - use a pic16
02:23 PM Tom_itx: yeah they're expendable
02:24 PM Tom_itx: polprog, i know a guy that builds car amps and they do that deliberately
02:24 PM antto: i got the stackpaint code working, finally
02:24 PM Tom_itx: even program stuff in the chips to throw off the hackers
02:24 PM Tom_itx: it just buys time
02:25 PM polprog: lol
02:25 PM polprog: why do they do it?
02:25 PM Tom_itx: it's a very competetive market
02:25 PM skz81: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wSr7h_pjxs '95 lol
02:26 PM polprog: rofl i just accidentally opened a pdf in emacs
02:26 PM polprog: and it actually renders it
02:27 PM polprog: http://polprog.net/rozne1/mixer-rev-A.pdf
02:27 PM polprog: proto
02:27 PM polprog: skz81: thats a classic
02:27 PM polprog: not advisable to listen on speakers to when parents are around
02:28 PM polprog: bbl
02:31 PM skz81: polprog, in the beg of 2000 we were listening to a sound yelling "Ketamin ! Ketamin !"... Very loud in the garden... And suddently after few week-end, my friend realized : "fuck, the neighbour is... a nurse !!!"
02:32 PM Emil: polprog: you sure you don't want positive gain?
02:32 PM Emil: as a possibility?
02:35 PM polprog: Emil: if i set the fader to zero i get +5
02:35 PM polprog: dB gain
02:35 PM Emil: yeah but that's fixed
02:36 PM Emil: why not have a pot that can change between -inf 0 +somedb ?
02:36 PM polprog: Yeah. So the postmute stage goes from -inf to +5
02:36 PM Emil: To get that oomph
02:36 PM skz81: waaw I dont understand a shit, but nice job ! Let's find out if it (actually) works...
02:37 PM polprog: I hope it will, been testing functional block of it for the last week
02:37 PM Emil: also I did some practice :D
02:37 PM polprog: Blocks*
02:37 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/d/destroyallsoftware
02:37 PM polprog: Hmm got a nice set of mp4 i see
02:38 PM polprog: Hope if emil would tgz them and share ;) or ill just run that script
02:38 PM skz81: Hummm i'm getting it ! Mix table ?
02:38 PM Emil: I don't admit to anything :D
02:38 PM polprog: skz81: 2 stereo in, one stereo out
02:39 PM polprog: With knobs and blinky led
02:39 PM polprog: S
02:39 PM polprog: Next version will have a level meter as well
02:39 PM polprog: And maybe real slider faders
02:39 PM skz81: that's why I guess... I can't understand the amp-op part by the details...
02:40 PM skz81: slider are very pratical, if you want do live (or even recording)
02:40 PM polprog: Sliders could use single slide pots cos for stereo you just grab two of them in two fingers
02:40 PM polprog: skz81: ikr
02:40 PM skz81: ikr ?
02:41 PM skz81: "i kown, right", thx urabn dico
02:41 PM skz81: know*
02:42 PM polprog: :)
02:42 PM skz81: Ha yup, you'll have two knobs / channel, not very handy this way. But still, very impressive !
02:44 PM skz81: (to me at lmeast :p )
02:45 PM skz81: polprog : is this scheme sharable ?
02:45 PM polprog: http://puu.sh/yqc2L/ad1f5255cf.jpg
02:45 PM polprog: You mean is there a license on it?
02:46 PM skz81: polprog, yeah kindof
02:46 PM skz81: can I show it to freind, for instance... On a small forum
02:46 PM skz81: friends*
02:48 PM polprog: Its 3 clasue BSD licence. I think i should add it
02:48 PM skz81: Doesn't matter anyway, i'm thinking, they won't understand anything.
02:48 PM polprog: You can ask me here ;)
02:49 PM skz81: I was thinking of impressing them, but even my stuff, that are far more visual (photos of screens...), they don't get it
02:53 PM skz81: https://drive.google.com/open?id=110bjr3oi1jM1rLEdVMp3NuGjfr01v7YG <= upside down. Mushroom grow condition supervisor. They were like "mey..."
02:55 PM skz81: NB : Blue is temperatur / green : if blue is beyond it's OK. Red : if blue goes up danger. Green : hygrometry.
02:55 PM skz81: Yellow* hygrometry
02:56 PM skz81: vertical line = NOW
02:56 PM polprog: Nice
03:18 PM Emil: polprog:
03:18 PM polprog: Emil:
03:20 PM Emil: say
03:20 PM Emil: do you need a xz? :D
03:23 PM Emil: polprog: or are you fine without? :D
03:23 PM Emil: It does seem to save about 600MB
03:23 PM polprog: a compressed archive would be preferable
03:23 PM polprog: :)
03:23 PM Emil: polprog: bruh
03:23 PM Emil: what else
03:23 PM Emil: I mean
03:23 PM polprog: A pack2000
03:24 PM Emil: the compression did take around an hour at -9e :DD
03:25 PM Emil: decompression shouldn't take but like a few minutes
03:25 PM Emil: Yeah
03:25 PM polprog: Lol
03:26 PM Emil: I have 1.2GB left of my 50GB :D
03:26 PM Emil: I have to make it count :D
03:35 PM Emil: no then :D
03:49 PM polprog: Hm?
03:50 PM Emil: you'll manage with just the script I'm sure
03:50 PM polprog: Im on my phone now so id be able to download it tomorrow morning.
03:50 PM polprog: Yeah ill try the script
03:50 PM polprog: Or write my own to lear
03:50 PM polprog: N
03:51 PM polprog: Today i managed to make wget grab a whole bunch of Beavis and Butthead episodes from an apache listing
03:54 PM thardin: wget -R
03:54 PM thardin: huhuh
04:11 PM polprog: And some excludes and -np
04:31 PM thardin: I'd recommend daria also. and probably king of the hill, but I only watched the first season so far
04:56 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
04:56 PM nuxil: So the nossle on my 3d printer annoys me. its constantly on which is stupid.
04:56 PM nuxil: im thining about making a "smart" board for it. so it only turns on when the heating element is active.
04:57 PM nuxil: 1st draft of the idea. https://i.gyazo.com/6dcb4dea81a4b20752837b7012600596.png
04:57 PM nuxil: what do you think i need to change./improve.
05:11 PM Tom_L: diode across the relay
05:11 PM nuxil: good point
05:11 PM nuxil: forgot that
05:13 PM Tom_L: not much of a cap on the regulator
05:13 PM nuxil: the 0.33 or 0.1 one or both ?
05:14 PM nuxil: thouse are just minimum reccomended values taken from the datasheet.
05:15 PM Tom_L: https://www.electrical4u.com/images/2017/march/1489671978.PNG
05:15 PM Tom_L: i doubt you need 1k either but somthing inbetween
05:16 PM nuxil: oh. i probabley should add diodes across the fan too..
05:16 PM nuxil: *diode.
05:17 PM Tom_L: not needed there
05:17 PM Tom_L: just going to the supply which has a nice big cap on it to absorb it :D
05:18 PM nuxil: well. i dont know how "BIG" it is :p cheep chinees psu you know :p
05:18 PM nuxil: but i guess youre right
05:18 PM nuxil: not really needed there
05:44 PM cehteh: cant the fan controlled by gcode?
05:45 PM nuxil: not the nossle fan
05:45 PM nuxil: the layerfan can
05:45 PM cehteh: hack the gcode for some extra command :D
05:45 PM cehteh: or actually add fan control to the nozzle PID
05:45 PM nuxil: no ports on the mobo for it.
05:46 PM nuxil: only a port on the mobo for the layer fan
05:47 PM cehteh: instead relay you may use a FET to turn the fan on/off
05:49 PM nuxil: indeed. but im out of stock :p
05:50 PM cehteh: and you dont need D and the 4.7µ cap, just put the extruder pwm to some input pin
05:50 PM nuxil: got a bunch of relays and bjt
05:51 PM cehteh: when you see it high you start the fan/reset countdown timer
05:51 PM cehteh: who cares about the countdown starting on each pwm cycle and get reset soonafter
06:57 PM nuxil: hmm. i suppose.
06:57 PM Ameisen: So... trying to design an ISA solely for virtual machines
06:57 PM Ameisen: meant only for virtualization/emulation
06:57 PM Ameisen: lots of odd details to try to nail down
06:58 PM Ameisen: since it has no obligation to really resemble a normal ISA, and indeed many of the decisions made for normal ISAs don't really apply
06:59 PM nuxil: so youre making your own emulator ?
07:01 PM Ameisen: I already have my own emulators
07:01 PM Ameisen: including one for MIPS
07:01 PM Ameisen: I'm trying to design an ISA _explicitly_ for emulation
07:01 PM Ameisen: so many emulators can be written to target it, and efficiently
07:02 PM Ameisen: was looking into pure-memory architectures, but the opcodes tend to get quite large since you end up having to encode full addresses quite often
07:03 PM Ameisen: though you can use pc-relative addresses as well
07:05 PM Ameisen: But I have a number of criteria to solve for... the ability to be interpreted, transcoded, AOT/JITd... the ability to be both 'full-run' and 'iterative-run'...
07:05 PM Ameisen: ideally, the binary will be quite compact
07:09 PM Ameisen: The presumption for optimization/design being that you aren't targetting hardware, but software
07:10 PM Ameisen: so behavior should be restricted to things that can trivially be calculated rather than can be trivially calculated _by circuity_
07:10 PM Ameisen: like instructions that seperate vlaues into separate ranges of bits... trivial for a CPU to combine those sicne it's just electrical paths
07:10 PM Ameisen: takes a few cycles for software, though
07:38 PM rue_mohr: fft
09:07 PM nuxil: so cehteh i guess i'll go for the way you described.
09:10 PM nuxil: https://pastebin.com/Ki7ZJ1ih
09:10 PM nuxil: looks ok?
09:22 PM lemm1ngs is now known as lemmings
09:28 PM Ameisen: can'
09:28 PM Ameisen: can't decide if I want to implement it as a stack machine, a memory machine, or a register machine
09:34 PM nuxil: make a hybrid :p
09:42 PM Thrashbarg: I vote stack machine
09:43 PM Thrashbarg: but that's because I'm biased to Forth lo
09:43 PM Thrashbarg: lol
09:43 PM lerc: Ameisen: I've had a bit of a look at designing an emulation targeted. ISA. Biggest issues are no persitent flags (Fused compare/jump) Mipsish. And A jump Target NOP instruction.
09:45 PM lerc: Stack machine makes expressions easy, but data juggling tricky. memcpy looks weird on a stack machine.
09:45 PM Ameisen: jump target so you can constrain where jumps can go.
09:47 PM lerc: Yeah. Then you can do Assembly in basic blocks. You can guaruntee that you won't jump into the middle of a block.
09:48 PM lerc: Basic block as in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_block
09:48 PM Ameisen: I was thinking similar but in the form of instruction flags
09:48 PM Ameisen: one of the flags being 'target'
09:49 PM Ameisen: so there wouldn't be nops littered everywhere
09:51 PM lerc: Depends on target density. 1 bit per instruction or NOPSIZE bits per n instructions
09:55 PM lerc: I kinda like the idea of a single register machine as a pointer to cpu state. logical/virtual registers are in memory relative to that pointer. (so total context switch is just changing pointer).
10:08 PM Ameisen: harder to JIT such a machine. Any memory-machine is harder to JIT because you have to discriminate between something that actually needs to go into memory, and something that's transient
10:08 PM Ameisen: and that's not always easy
10:15 PM lerc: JIT get hairy anyway with context switching unless you declare an opaque saved-state mechanism. Rather than store what the emulated state is exactly, just store something that can be restored.
10:17 PM lerc: Only allowing pre-empting at the start of basic blocks helps a lot there. Everything inside a block can be considered transient.
11:31 PM day__ is now known as day