#avr Logs
Apr 02 2018
#avr Calendar
03:27 AM _ami_: any estimates on how much heat is produced by 1w led (warm white)?
03:30 AM _ami_: photon:heat -> 60%:40% ratio?
03:46 AM Emil: So jewtube is killing gun content
03:46 AM Emil: fml
03:47 AM Haohmaru: removing videos about guns?
03:49 AM Emil: _ami_: quite a lot
03:49 AM Emil: _ami_: heat is more than double
03:50 AM Emil: Haohmaru: yeah
03:51 AM Emil: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy#Examples_2
03:51 AM Emil: _ami_:
03:52 AM Emil: so around 75% heat
03:53 AM _ami_: Emil, aha, thanks.
03:53 AM Emil: or 80
03:56 AM Emil: soo 800mW heat and 200mW light :D
03:59 AM _ami_: Emil, i can see that by powering 1w led with 200mA current limit. its too hot without a heatsink.
04:23 AM polprog: morming
04:23 AM Haohmaru: ur late
04:33 AM Emil: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/979583605637877760.html
04:52 AM polprog: rofl
04:57 AM Haohmaru: that's not funny
05:04 AM polprog: Haohmaru: what?
05:05 AM polprog: i cant hear you
05:13 AM Emil: hmm
05:13 AM Emil: I think there's a subtle memory leak possibility in my program
05:14 AM Emil: No errors or growing memory usage, just that the logic allows for it
05:26 AM MrFahrenheit: gonna make some ricotta today
05:32 AM Emil: Did I hear a ricochet!?!? THAT'S GUN RELATED! THAT'S TRIGGERING! BANNNNNN!!! MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODSSSSSSSSSSS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
05:34 AM polprog: are we 4chan.edu/avr/ now :p
05:34 AM thardin: staw feminism is the toppest of arguments
05:34 AM thardin: straw even
05:35 AM Emil: polprog: :DD
05:35 AM MrFahrenheit: this is now a boxxy thread
05:35 AM polprog: mods are asleep
05:35 AM polprog: post pic bootloaders
05:36 AM Emil: polprog: ewww
05:36 AM Emil: polprog: that's disgusting!
05:36 AM polprog: wonde if i ever gonna get that free board
05:36 AM polprog: heh
05:37 AM Emil: I wonder if we have any microshit shills amongst us providing information to their HQ
05:37 AM Emil: wait who was the pic32 guy
05:45 AM polprog: bsd knf indentation style ftw
05:46 AM Haohmaru: Lambda
05:46 AM Haohmaru: where's he btw?
05:50 AM polprog: he decided to have a break from all things techy afaik
05:50 AM polprog: just a sec
05:50 AM Emil: Haohmaru: No one's seen Lambda_Aurigae in ages
05:50 AM Emil: polprog: YOU HAVE INSIDER INFORMATION
05:51 AM Emil: !?
05:51 AM Haohmaru: Emil, he was here last year iirc
05:51 AM Haohmaru: i wouldn't call that "ages"
05:51 AM Emil: Haohmaru: internet ages
05:51 AM Haohmaru: rrrrrright
05:51 AM Emil: Haohmaru: it's already been like 6 months
05:52 AM Haohmaru: did he get stuck in a printer?
05:52 AM Haohmaru: ;P~
05:52 AM Emil: polprog: pls share your magic IRC-log
05:52 AM Emil: s
05:52 AM Haohmaru: yeah, i don't remember when exactly he left, or why
05:52 AM polprog: just a sec
05:53 AM Haohmaru: a second on irc is AGES!
05:53 AM Haohmaru: FASTURRRR
05:53 AM Emil: Haohmaru: now you get me :D
05:53 AM Emil: also I wonder if one could register 4chan.edu
05:53 AM Haohmaru: why would you
05:54 AM Haohmaru: register something better
05:54 AM Emil: polprog: that indendation style is absolutely disgustin
05:54 AM Haohmaru: i think my coding style is "Allman"
05:55 AM Haohmaru: with a slight exception that i always put { } blocks on if/else/while
05:56 AM Emil: Haohmaru: <3
05:56 AM Emil: Allman is best indentation
05:56 AM Emil: Haohmaru: allman also puts {} always
05:56 AM polprog: i hate all those unnecesary empty lines
05:56 AM Emil: and everyone should always put {} to all conditionals
05:56 AM polprog: int main() {
05:56 AM polprog: }
05:56 AM polprog: no LF before the {
05:56 AM polprog: also
05:56 AM polprog: 15:56 <@emolatur> yeah, he's okay.
05:56 AM Emil: polprog: that's one line too much!
05:56 AM polprog: 32834 15:56 <@emolatur> "total tech detox" he says
05:56 AM polprog: 32835 15:56 <@emolatur> and very not-talkative.
05:57 AM Emil: polprog: what channel where
05:57 AM Emil: and _when_
05:57 AM Emil: I didn't know Lambda was a hippie
05:57 AM polprog: 28 dec
05:57 AM polprog: some channel on dalnet
05:57 AM polprog: doesnt matter
05:58 AM Emil: bro do I have to come back there :D
05:59 AM polprog: dont worry
06:00 AM Emil: imustknow
06:07 AM polprog: you can mail him a letter
06:07 AM polprog: if you really need to know
06:07 AM Emil: no I meant that dalnet :D
06:07 AM polprog: :x
06:11 AM Emil: polprog: https://prkele.prk.tky.fi/~peltolt2/gentoo.ogg
06:12 AM polprog: heh
06:12 AM polprog: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjGSMUep6_4
06:13 AM Emil: polprog: Asenna Gentoo
06:15 AM Emil: http://sooda.dy.fi/foo/asennagentoo-html5/
06:21 AM polprog: lol
06:22 AM aczid: hypnotic
06:33 AM polprog: polprog.net/papiery/pictures/desk1.png seems to load on firefox mobile, loads via vpn, doesnt load via polprog.net
06:33 AM polprog: can you see if this file loads for you?
06:35 AM polprog: okay it loads
06:35 AM polprog: weird
06:36 AM polprog: probably mozarella foxfire is acting up
06:37 AM Emil: polprog: >not using https
06:38 AM Emil: pls fix yer site
06:38 AM polprog: cant be bothered to get a cert
06:38 AM nuxil: he
06:38 AM polprog: maybe some day
06:38 AM nuxil: he dojnt need https
06:38 AM nuxil: not with the content on his site and as a hobby poage
06:38 AM Emil: polprog: cerbot certonly --webroot -w /path/to/root -d polprot.net -d www.polprog.net
06:38 AM polprog: polprogvagxyubwhaiwr67ci.onion
06:39 AM Emil: nuxil: it's not about not needing https
06:39 AM Emil: polprog: https://certbot.eff.org/
06:39 AM Emil: super simply stuff
06:39 AM polprog: Emil: look good
06:39 AM polprog: looks*
06:39 AM Emil: https://certbot.eff.org/lets-encrypt/debianstretch-apache
06:39 AM polprog: ill se if i have time
06:40 AM Emil: I don't recommend any other method but certbot certonly --webroot -w /path/to/website/root -d domain.tld
06:40 AM Emil: It's the clearest and lets you configure how you want
06:45 AM nuxil: <Emil> nuxil: it's not about not needing https. : umm. isnt that reason you add S to it. because you need the security. as a hobby page having no collection or transmit of persional info, like "banks | commarc" etc site do no real need for it. i dont see any sensetive info on his site. unless youre paranoid. :p
06:45 AM Emil: nuxil: it's about being safe and private by default
06:45 AM Emil: it also protects everyone visitng the site
06:46 AM Haohmaru: from le wat?
06:46 AM Emil: like say there's some super sikrit illegally hosted document
06:46 AM Emil: if it's https there's no logs isps could provide
06:46 AM Emil: It's also a statement about striving for privacy
06:46 AM Haohmaru: u shouldn't have illegal documents on yer website
06:47 AM Haohmaru: fyi
06:47 AM Emil: Haohmaru: all rehosted documents are pretty much illegal
06:47 AM Haohmaru: i only have original content on mine ;P~
06:47 AM Emil: Haohmaru: sure you do
06:47 AM Emil: And we were talking about polprog's site anyways
06:47 AM Emil: )
06:47 AM Emil: ; )
06:47 AM Emil: I don't see a link to your site
06:48 AM Haohmaru: cuz it's super sikrit
06:48 AM Haohmaru: >:)
06:48 AM polprog: darasheets are not copyrightable iirc
06:48 AM polprog: manuals are
06:49 AM Emil: Haohmaru: also pls, whya are you running an ancient version of nginx
06:49 AM Emil: polprog: no
06:49 AM polprog: hence stm32 datasheets are sheets
06:49 AM Haohmaru: hm?
06:49 AM Emil: polprog: the content of a datasheet, that is the facts in it
06:49 AM Emil: are not copyrightable
06:49 AM Haohmaru: i don't run nginx
06:49 AM Emil: polprog: but the document is protected
06:49 AM Emil: Haohmaru: yes you do
06:49 AM Haohmaru: Emil, ur hacking someone else, not me
06:49 AM Emil: Haohmaru: your irchost
06:49 AM Emil: :D
06:49 AM Haohmaru: i'm at teh job
06:49 AM Emil: polprog: that is: rehosting datasheets is illegal
06:50 AM polprog: shit happens
06:51 AM Emil: but really, everyone should use https
06:54 AM Haohmaru: what's illegal? hosting a document or being cought during downloading of an illegaly hosted document?
06:55 AM Emil: Haohmaru: hosting
06:55 AM Emil: And depending on the content, downloading the document might also be illegal
06:55 AM Haohmaru: so then.. "everyone who hosts illegal sh*t should use https"
06:55 AM Haohmaru: that's better
07:10 AM polprog: managed to reduce my channel count to 46
07:10 AM polprog: now i have you people on m-9
07:10 AM polprog: :D
07:10 AM polprog: instead of m-0
07:23 AM Emil: wot
07:23 AM Emil: that's downgrade!
07:42 AM nuxil: ?
07:43 AM nuxil: polprog, i think i missed something. what are you doing polprog
07:45 AM Haohmaru: nuxil, when you blink - you're missing gazillions of photons
07:47 AM Emil: Hot damn
07:47 AM Emil: that's some existential stuff right there
07:48 AM polprog: whats a good RS flip flop chip
07:48 AM Emil: Every time you blink you miss more data that makes you you, a lifetime of unique events
07:48 AM polprog: sn54ls279 is old as hell
07:49 AM nuxil: polprog, get some nandgate
07:49 AM polprog: ugh
07:49 AM polprog: why
07:49 AM nuxil: you want a rs flip flop :p
07:50 AM polprog: yeah
07:50 AM polprog: i dont wanna build it
07:50 AM polprog: i want a ready chip
07:50 AM polprog: :/
07:50 AM polprog: hmm. on the other hand
07:51 AM polprog: a quad nand chip will probably be easier to get
07:51 AM polprog: 74hc00
07:51 AM nuxil: get something like SN74LS279A then
07:52 AM polprog: okay maybe ill use 7400
08:33 AM polprog: i need to get some more parts, then ill prototype the peak detector and mute button
08:34 AM polprog: i wont prototype the summing amp.. that is simple and known
08:37 AM nuxil: how are you making the peek detector? using hardware or software with avr or something?
08:41 AM polprog: its all analogue hardware
08:41 AM polprog: except for the rs latch that keeps the led on
08:42 AM polprog: i think ill publish the schematic when im done
08:42 AM polprog: testing and building it
08:42 AM polprog: now something came to my mind
08:43 AM Emil: polprog: just get a m328pb and use the glue logic :D
08:43 AM polprog: i need to get a lot of those cd4066 and FINALLY make my decimator
08:44 AM Haohmaru: i haven't finished mine
08:44 AM Haohmaru: looks like i'll never finish it x_x
08:44 AM polprog: hehe
08:55 AM rue_mohr: polprog, are you doing N:1 or 1:N ?
09:00 AM polprog: N:1
09:01 AM polprog: maybe ill add a decimator on the output as well, "fuck yo track" button :p
09:02 AM rue_mohr: ok, cause there is a chip that does that
09:03 AM rue_mohr: it'll turn on any 1 of N channels to the ouptut, but I dont think thats what you want is it
09:03 AM rue_mohr: you want a crosspoint swtich
09:03 AM rue_mohr: ?
09:04 AM polprog: its more of a one-or-more:1
09:05 AM rue_mohr: thats a cross point switch
09:06 AM polprog: imagine a mixing console that has a line out, takes like inputs, each input has a mute button and a gain amp.
09:06 AM rue_mohr: AD8153?
09:07 AM polprog: hmm
09:07 AM rue_mohr: no
09:07 AM polprog: not really
09:10 AM rue_mohr: max14662
09:10 AM rue_mohr: ...
09:13 AM rue_mohr: vishay "DG485"
09:13 AM polprog: well. that woukd be useful for muting.
09:13 AM polprog: would*
09:13 AM polprog: but the mixer itself is not the aim here :D
09:13 AM rue_mohr: and 8 bit gain cotrol
09:14 AM polprog: the aim is to learn opamps
09:14 AM rue_mohr: oh :)
09:14 AM polprog: thats why its not a class ab amp, not a digital thingy etc
09:14 AM polprog: ;)
09:14 AM polprog: and later maybe id try some robotics
09:14 AM polprog: those arms of yours look cool
09:15 AM rue_mohr: :)
09:15 AM polprog: i already have a base for a vehicle robot
09:15 AM polprog: even a remote controlled one with a video camera would be cool for a start
09:15 AM polprog: and then maybe an arm on it
09:15 AM polprog: so i can go somewhere and fetch something
09:15 AM polprog: heh.
09:16 AM rue_mohr: wow, even at a deal the dg485 is $4ea from china
09:19 AM rue_mohr: welll, 4066 are cheap
09:19 AM polprog: true
09:19 AM rue_mohr: 10pcd for $2
09:19 AM polprog: i hope they will have 47hc00 there
09:20 AM polprog: and not ask me "what year is it?"
09:20 AM polprog: i found some RS latch chips but they were all old
09:21 AM polprog: and generally 74hc00 is a bit more useful than an rs latch
09:21 AM rue_mohr: 74xx74 is a D that has S/R
09:21 AM rue_mohr: dual
09:22 AM rue_mohr: 7476 iirc is quad RS latch
09:22 AM polprog: probably
09:22 AM polprog: but whats the effort to add two wires across a 7400
09:23 AM rue_mohr: nope
09:23 AM rue_mohr: it has set and reset inputs
09:23 AM rue_mohr: you just ignore cld and d
09:23 AM polprog: what do you mean?
09:23 AM rue_mohr: 74xx74 has D, clk, set and reset
09:23 AM rue_mohr: if you dont use D or clk, its just a rs latch
09:24 AM polprog: ill see what they have. ill note down this as an alternative
09:24 AM rue_mohr: doyou really want a T latch?
09:24 AM polprog: t latch?
09:24 AM rue_mohr: toggle
09:25 AM polprog: not a toggle. i need a set/reset
09:25 AM rue_mohr: how many?
09:25 AM polprog: one
09:25 AM rue_mohr: (the first one is free, just for you)
09:25 AM rue_mohr: oh go 7474
09:25 AM polprog: heh
09:25 AM rue_mohr: OR 555
09:26 AM polprog: heh. 555 could do
09:26 AM polprog: i need to take a look at that chip again
09:26 AM rue_mohr: smaller
09:27 AM rue_mohr: off to work, later!
09:27 AM polprog: cya
10:44 AM nuxil: what robot arms did rue_mohr make ? pic's or its all lies :p
10:45 AM nuxil: polprog> and later maybe id try some robotics
10:45 AM nuxil: <polprog> those arms of yours look cool
10:46 AM polprog: http://ruemohr.org/%7Eircjunk/robots/
10:47 AM polprog: bbl playing fallout
10:47 AM polprog: mention me
10:47 AM nuxil: ok.
10:49 AM nuxil: polprog, stop wasting time on games. esp linear games.
10:49 AM nuxil: we call it them linear games. dont know if its directly translated.
10:50 AM nuxil: polprog, take advantage of you coding skill and lookinto games like arma etc which has lots of tools to create your own dynamic game.
10:52 AM MrFahrenheit: ricotta was successful, but didn't get a whole lot, less than 0.5kg
10:53 AM MrFahrenheit: gonna make cannelloni with it
10:54 AM nuxil: mmm. italian food
10:57 AM MrFahrenheit: https://www.recipetineats.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Spinach-Ricotta-Cannelloni-2-680x952.jpg
11:20 AM Ameisen: [10:47:49] <nuxil> polprog, stop wasting time on games. esp linear games.
11:20 AM Ameisen: I prefer polynomial games, myself.
11:21 AM Ameisen: though exponential games are also OK
11:21 AM Ameisen: parabolic games suck, though
11:21 AM nuxil: :D
11:22 AM Ameisen: hyperbolic games are overcomplicated
11:22 AM MrFahrenheit: I just played a game the other day where you had to shoot things by giving it the equation of the bullet path
11:23 AM Ameisen: I'd rather just give the bullet a C++ function definings its behavior.
11:23 AM Ameisen: boom. Autohoming bullets.
11:23 AM Ameisen: could implement A*, make them autohoming, pathfinding bullets
11:24 AM MrFahrenheit: mmm segfaulting bullets
11:24 AM Ameisen: those are just explosive bullets;
11:25 AM Ameisen: div0 bullets rip holes in spacetime
11:27 AM MrFahrenheit: very effective
11:28 AM Ameisen: And now I'm arguing with someone elsewhere that a shared_ptr (or a Java handle) is still a pointer
11:28 AM Ameisen: since it has the same reference semantics
11:29 AM Ameisen: ownership model, and other features like implicit value validation are not inherent to pointers
11:29 AM Ameisen: pointers don't even define an ownership model
11:29 AM Ameisen: add reference counting and an if (ptr == null) throw wtf; to a pointer in a wrapper... it's still a pointer
11:29 AM Ameisen: just a fancy one
11:34 AM nuxil: why even bother to argue with a java dude :p
11:35 AM MrFahrenheit: just yell "lol, no reified generics"
11:53 AM nuxil: i dont like java at all, tried once to learn it, but i quitted when i saw how ugly it was. with all these xml file etc.
11:55 AM nuxil: besides i never really had any need for it nor do i like making phone apps which is heavly based on java. if i need something done quick i just use python + (wxwidgets if gui needed).
11:56 AM nuxil: and i dont work in a industry where knowing embeded java and such is required :p
11:57 AM * nuxil hates xml files
11:58 AM * Tom_L don't be a hater... love to love them :)
11:59 AM desperek: learn to love, you meant? Tom_L
11:59 AM * desperek hates python grrr
12:00 PM nuxil: i have done my share of fancy pancy stuff with xml and xls files in the past. i just dont like them :D
12:00 PM nuxil: desperek, shhhh
12:01 PM nuxil: learn to love it :p
12:01 PM desperek: nuxil, but python is sloooooooooooow
12:01 PM nuxil: yea. if you need something fast you write in C# C++ or even C. but not java :p
12:02 PM nuxil: python is perfect for testing out prototying a software. besides. you can replace the "slow" parts with C modules.
12:05 PM MrFahrenheit: java doesn't need xml, it's just that a lot of tools/libraries use it
12:06 PM antto: an unfortunate coincidence, eh
12:06 PM nuxil: ^^
12:07 PM MrFahrenheit: I mean it can be avoided entirely
12:07 PM MrFahrenheit: except if you use maven without an IDE maybe
12:07 PM nuxil: not really unless you want to reinvent the wheel.
12:08 PM MrFahrenheit: or just don't use bulky xml heavy libraries, plenty of alternatives there
12:08 PM MrFahrenheit: you're not alone in your xml hate
12:09 PM * antto is not a fan of xml
12:09 PM nuxil: somestuff with xml is cool tho.
12:11 PM polprog: nuxil: i like fallout
12:11 PM nuxil: like mixing xml / xls on a webpage to give it functionality/look and feel to it. like html on steriodes.
12:13 PM polprog: also multiplayer is rarely my thing
12:14 PM polprog: coop games are nice but i cant seem to sync with my friends to play together
12:14 PM polprog: i have q3a oh
12:14 PM polprog: nice
12:14 PM antto: i have openarena
12:15 PM antto: on teh linuks
12:15 PM polprog: i keep this windoze just to play
12:16 PM antto: keep it off or it'll mine bitcoins for M$
12:16 PM polprog: eh
12:16 PM antto: and never shutdown it
12:16 PM MrFahrenheit: ono https://imgur.com/a/BjUC2
12:17 PM antto: restart it and then press the power butten during BIOS
12:17 PM polprog: MrFahrenheit: holy crap
12:18 PM nuxil: damn hexchat
12:26 PM polprog: i was using foobar2000 for a while
12:26 PM polprog: nothing beats good old winamp though :>
12:26 PM polprog: https://puu.sh/zUN4G/877d39882d.png
12:26 PM _kl0wn: it really whips the llamas ass
12:28 PM nuxil: i was a heavy winamp user in the past :)
12:30 PM nuxil: now im just using musicbee
12:30 PM nuxil: https://getmusicbee.com/
12:32 PM nuxil: amarok might be something like musicbee for linux
12:32 PM polprog: on linux i use qmmp.... with minam skin :v
12:32 PM polprog: s/minam/winamp/
12:36 PM nuxil: i dont use linux as desktop pc :p i find it rather useless. i got on a lappy to view movies in bed :p, and on my pi. thats.
12:37 PM nuxil: linux is forbidden on my desktop pc until the day you can get proper modelling tool. paint tools, video editing/rendering softwares etc.
12:37 PM nuxil: on it,
12:38 PM antto: any of those or all of those?
12:38 PM MrFahrenheit: I use onshape
12:38 PM nuxil: well. atleast modelling tools. blender dosent cut it.
12:38 PM nuxil: gimp is getting good tho.
12:38 PM antto: what's wrong with blender?
12:38 PM polprog: yeah . blender is good for artsy stuff. not really for mecahnical design :o
12:38 PM polprog: i tried using freecad but it drives me crazy
12:39 PM polprog: cant make a reference to an external edge
12:39 PM nuxil: antto, it just sucks compared to cinema4d :D , but go figure. c4d is not free and costed a bit. :)
12:39 PM polprog: how the hell am i supposed to make something that has more than one part :(
12:39 PM antto: nuxil *shrug* i've seen quite fancy things modeled in blender
12:40 PM antto: and folks who model uber fast with it
12:41 PM MrFahrenheit: onShape is like solidworks (made by the same devs), but faster since all the computation is done on serves, and free
12:43 PM MrFahrenheit: I know it's faster than solidworks cause it runs fine on my atom laptop
12:43 PM MrFahrenheit: https://cad.onshape.com/documents/6f95e7a262ba39a9be3f8d83/w/40baefbc7f49b0d2a0c98096
12:44 PM polprog: damn, need to sign in
12:44 PM antto: https://i.imgur.com/hS8dii3.png
12:44 PM nuxil: antto, there is no point in comparing blender with c4d https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znliDeZOZx0
12:44 PM polprog: nice
12:45 PM nuxil: c4d eats blender for breakfast lunch and dinner :p
12:48 PM antto: nuxil what was i supposed to see there?
12:48 PM nuxil: all you saw there is done in c4d alone
12:49 PM antto: the actress too?
12:49 PM antto: forgot her name, somethingsomething johanson
12:50 PM polprog: scarlett?
12:50 PM antto: yes, her
12:50 PM nuxil: my point was. until linux gets desktop apps like c4d or (autodesk) maya etc. no linux on my pc. and same goes for millions of other. they need tools like this to get their work done.
12:50 PM polprog: true
12:50 PM antto: then forget it, you won't get c4d on linux
12:50 PM polprog: via a KVM xD
12:51 PM antto: meanwhile, the blender guys are doing pretty nice things
12:51 PM nuxil: :D
12:51 PM antto: too bad u won't get to play with them
12:51 PM polprog: i have a win 7 embedded VM
12:51 PM polprog: funny system
12:52 PM antto: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIiY6aGefvI
12:52 PM antto: there, so what?
12:54 PM antto: it doesn't look like 90s 3D graphics, does it?
12:54 PM nuxil: antto, how much of that was done in windows ? i bet most part. seen that the only proper texture tool linux has is gimp.
12:54 PM antto: wut
12:54 PM nuxil: ^^
12:54 PM antto: you don't need textures
12:54 PM nuxil: o.O
12:54 PM antto: do you think i used textures in my keyboard pic above?
12:54 PM antto: ;P~
12:55 PM nuxil: no but hte move you posted
12:55 PM MrFahrenheit: polprog, try this link instead, should be public https://cad.onshape.com/documents/4b941ec2da3728563f8d1356/w/b391d53101a7e2f1fdaf361c/e/3ea346e09e35db3928552e69
12:55 PM polprog: behold this
12:55 PM polprog: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7zZGzKHUBE
12:55 PM polprog: true 90's CGI
12:55 PM nuxil: is it all done with procedural textures in blender ?
12:56 PM MrFahrenheit: also, there's loads of painting tools on linux
12:57 PM antto: sure, depends on what you want to "paint"
12:57 PM antto: nuxil it can be, i don't see a problem
12:58 PM antto: many folks use textures from libraries, and those who make their own probably can do it no matter on what OS
12:58 PM nuxil: antto, you need textures to get a good models. bump, normal maps etc to get the model looking pooper and realistic. just adding in a material. toss in a light is amateur, but gets you a quick render pic.
12:58 PM polprog: the truth is that there is no ideal os. you wouldnt set up a firewall on windows and you wouldnt set up a CGI workstation on BSD
12:59 PM polprog: damn how long can a 3d model load
12:59 PM antto: pls, if you want to do art, linux is no excuse
12:59 PM antto: "boo, the tools ain't gud enuf"
01:00 PM polprog: MrFahrenheit: wahts that thingy?
01:00 PM antto: blender is really hard to learn, that's true
01:00 PM antto: but it's very very capable
01:00 PM MrFahrenheit: polprog, it's a table saw pushblock
01:01 PM polprog: hmm, nice
01:01 PM nuxil: antto, no.. forexample no gimp still lacks stuff. like 16 bit grayscale. which is needed with manystuff. example need a high quality heightmap.
01:01 PM polprog: i need to find a nice modeler. wonder what rue's using
01:01 PM polprog: for all the 3d stuff
01:01 PM polprog: rue_mohr: ^
01:01 PM antto: krita probably does 16bit
01:03 PM nuxil: polprog, google sketchup :p
01:05 PM MrFahrenheit: polprog, try onshape, learning it also means you learn most of the solidworks workflow
01:05 PM antto: nuxil i'm not even sure how you'd see a 16bit grayscale image ;P~
01:05 PM polprog: hooman eye can only see 1 bit grayscale anyway
01:07 PM MrFahrenheit: antto, it does support it and other modes https://docs.krita.org/Bit_Depth
01:07 PM nuxil: antto, as i said. its used in game engines to calulate the terrain. you make a heightmap in 16bit grayscale. ps supports this. gimp did not last time i checked.
01:07 PM antto: yeah, i'm not surprised about krita
01:08 PM antto: nuxil you can certainly hack that together with RGB24, if you're stuck with gimp
01:09 PM antto: it's not like windows+photoshop is the only way
01:09 PM antto: or is it
01:10 PM antto: i said enuf
01:10 PM antto: linux is certainly not easy to use, especially if you're spoiled by windows
01:11 PM nuxil: gimp has come alonge way from the 1st time i used it. but not on pair with ps. i use gimp all the time for quick stuff.
01:12 PM antto: photoshop ain't a miracle
01:12 PM antto: i think even today, most graphics programs do the resampling wrong
01:12 PM antto: blur/sharpen/convolution too
01:14 PM antto: waddayaknow, photoshop forgot how to resample properly
01:14 PM MrFahrenheit: what features does gimp lack for you, nuxil?
01:15 PM antto: gimp is okay, linux lack another kind of program
01:15 PM antto: vector graphics.. inkscape is really not decent enough.. it has a terrible fill algorithm
01:15 PM antto: TERRIBLE
01:16 PM Ameisen: [12:57:17] <nuxil> antto, you need textures to get a good models. bump, normal maps etc to get the model looking pooper and realistic. just adding in a material. toss in a light is amateur, but gets you a quick render pic.
01:16 PM Ameisen: you're making me nostalgic for my last job as a senior rendering engineer
01:17 PM Ameisen: though "bump, normal maps" is kind of an odd combination.
01:17 PM Ameisen: And you can certainly get away with not having any displacement mapping of any kind (normal, height, whatnot) if you have a sufficiently-detailed mesh, though I wouldn't recommend it.
01:17 PM antto: if you need 16bit bumpmaps, i think you're maybe overexploiting bumpmaps, and should consider doing actual mesh modeling instead ;P~
01:17 PM nuxil: Ameisen, not all modeling apps use it. c4d can. but you better use normal esp if you need to switch between 3d tools.
01:18 PM Ameisen: Well, I don't know what you mean when you say 'bump map'. We don't use the term in rendering because it's ambiguous
01:18 PM Ameisen: most people say bump maps when they mean normal maps
01:18 PM Ameisen: some people say it when they mean height/displacement maps
01:18 PM nuxil: well its litterly called "Bump" in cinema :p
01:18 PM Ameisen: Good for them
01:19 PM Ameisen: Game development rendering uses techniques from cinema, usually altered substantially for real-time purposes, but we don't use the same terminology
01:19 PM antto: tbh i don't like that sh*t
01:19 PM Ameisen: because of the fact that our techniques are different, and thus so is the data we use.
01:20 PM antto: i like photorealistic, physically accurate rendering and sh*t
01:20 PM Ameisen: As much as possible in realtime rendering is precomputed, so we simply end up having different data sources
01:20 PM Ameisen: I don't believe that there are any truly physically accurate renderers. The closest are raycasting ones, but they are literally backwards.
01:20 PM antto: you literally just stick a light and your scene looks natural ;P~
01:20 PM nuxil: heh :p
01:21 PM antto: Ameisen "truly" no, but close
01:21 PM Ameisen: In the real world, photons are emitted from light sources (really all surfaces emit photons, just often outside of the visual range), scatter/reflect off of surfaces, and hit your retina
01:21 PM Ameisen: raycasters do the opposite
01:21 PM antto: Cycles is very decent
01:21 PM nuxil: thump rule in "render world" min 3 lights. but in games you often only have 1
01:21 PM antto: there's also Luxrender, if ya wanna kill your computer
01:21 PM Ameisen: projecting from each pixel, simulating scattering, and seeing if they hit a light source.
01:21 PM Ameisen: I know of almost no AAA games presently that only have 1 light.
01:22 PM Ameisen: The last one I worked on before I quit had around 400 in every scene.
01:22 PM Ameisen: It was a very odd renderer though
01:22 PM Ameisen: and they were using a shitton of lights to simulate lightmasses, because they never implemented precomputed light masses.
01:22 PM MrFahrenheit: Ameisen, you mean pathtracers?
01:22 PM Ameisen: no
01:22 PM nuxil: oh that go for your fps ?
01:22 PM Ameisen: it certainly didn't help the framerate
01:22 PM MrFahrenheit: you mean the ones that simulate light?
01:23 PM Ameisen: though their renderer was designed to handle a shitton of lights at least semi-efficiently
01:23 PM Ameisen: was hell on GPU bandwidth though
01:23 PM Ameisen: MrFahrenheit - all renderers simulate light
01:23 PM Ameisen: unless you are referring to ones that trace photons
01:23 PM MrFahrenheit: what do you mean by raycaster
01:23 PM Ameisen: which I've usually seen called raytracers
01:23 PM nuxil: MrFahrenheit, casting a ray :p
01:24 PM nuxil: like xray and see if it hits anything
01:24 PM Ameisen: though usually they end up casting many rays, to simulate scattering and whatnot
01:24 PM MrFahrenheit: nuxil, I've written path tracers, so I know what raycasting means, I'm just confused by his terminology
01:24 PM nuxil: ok :)
01:24 PM Ameisen: I've never heard it called 'pathtracing'
01:24 PM Ameisen: ever
01:24 PM MrFahrenheit: monte carlo path tracing
01:25 PM nuxil: different game studios/engines use differnet terms on thigs thats for sure :p
01:25 PM Ameisen: Even Microsoft's D3D12 support library is the 'D3D12 Raytracing API'
01:26 PM Ameisen: I think they're used interchangeably these days
01:26 PM Ameisen: they originally referred to different techniques
01:26 PM Ameisen: though I've only heard it referred to as raytracing
01:26 PM MrFahrenheit: raytracing is a generic term, path tracing is a specific version of that
01:27 PM Ameisen: Yes, but nobody uses that terminology anymore.
01:27 PM MrFahrenheit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unbiased_rendering
01:27 PM Ameisen: Pathtracing was originally just a monte-carlo integrator on top of ray tracing
01:27 PM Ameisen: but everyone just calls both raytracing
01:27 PM MrFahrenheit: except every rendering book everywhere
01:28 PM Ameisen: The link you just gave gives a book source calling it ray tracing.
01:28 PM Ameisen: well, not a book
01:28 PM Ameisen: siggraph, but still
01:28 PM Ameisen: James Arvo; Marcos Fajardo; Pat Hanrahan; Henrik Wann Jensen; Don Mitchell; Matt Pharr; Peter Shirley. "State of the Art in Monte Carlo Ray Tracing for Realistic Image Synthesis". SIGGRAPH 2001 Courses.
01:29 PM Ameisen: I've never seen it called 'path tracing' in practice
01:29 PM Ameisen: it's always just been called ray tracing.
01:30 PM Ameisen: looks like the generic CG people are more likely to call it path tracing
01:30 PM Ameisen: rather than the game rendering folk
01:30 PM MrFahrenheit: cause it's typically an offline method
01:30 PM Ameisen: but then again the normal CG people are weird like that.
01:30 PM nuxil: hey
01:31 PM MrFahrenheit: pretty much the slowest but most accurate rendering method availably
01:31 PM nuxil: i find that offensive :p
01:31 PM MrFahrenheit: *available
01:31 PM MrFahrenheit: hence "unbiased"
01:31 PM Ameisen: Well... why would you bring up an offline renderer?
01:31 PM Ameisen: I did explicitly say 'realtime'
01:32 PM Ameisen: nuxil - go render me some tears
01:32 PM Ameisen: they better be photorealstic.
01:32 PM Ameisen: but yeah, as said... I don't know of any games these days that use just one light source
01:32 PM MrFahrenheit: because: <antto> i like photorealistic, physically accurate rendering and sh*t
01:32 PM MrFahrenheit: <Ameisen> I don't believe that there are any truly physically accurate renderers. The closest are raycasting ones, but they are literally backwards.
01:32 PM Ameisen: Even your normal direct renderer can trivially handle a certain number of lights
01:33 PM Ameisen: And two lines above that, I stated real-time
01:33 PM Ameisen: :|
01:33 PM MrFahrenheit: I don't think antto meant real time
01:34 PM Ameisen: I mean, if you have infinite time to do a render, yeah, you can make it pretty
01:34 PM Ameisen: the challenge is to render a frame in < 16ms (or 8ms for 120hz)
01:34 PM Ameisen: 16.67ms, I should say
01:34 PM MrFahrenheit: vray does gpu path tracing and it's pretty fast
01:35 PM Ameisen: 16.67mspf fast?
01:36 PM MrFahrenheit: maxwell render was the first to try and get people to use it as a mainstream rendering method despite how slow it was, when they came out with it images took days to converge
01:36 PM Ameisen: at full resolution?
01:36 PM MrFahrenheit: that was ~2006 or so
01:37 PM Ameisen: If it can't handly arbitrary, changing scenes at 16.67mspf (or faster, VR has tighter constraints) at high resolutions, then it isn't particularly relevant to people doing gamedev work.
01:37 PM MrFahrenheit: who said it was
01:37 PM Ameisen: Usually realtime renderers end up getting inspired by other solutions, but the algorithms end up different.
01:37 PM nuxil: OctaneRender seems to do amazing.
01:39 PM Ameisen: raycasting is _starting_ to become interesting for realtime rendering, particularly with low level APIs exposing more of the GPU's functionality
01:39 PM Ameisen: and with the GPUs starting to actually become fast enough to do it (though memory is still an issue)
01:40 PM Ameisen: I've seen a few realtime raytracers going at 1080p on last-gen hardware. They're usually rendering rather specific scenes, and usually working off of voxels which are basically the best-case scenario for ray tracing.
01:40 PM MrFahrenheit: seems more like marketing at the moment, conventional real time renderers have plenty of advantages still
01:40 PM MrFahrenheit: especially if you don't want your game to be in the uncanny valley
01:40 PM Ameisen: Conventional renderers have a lot of limitations that are hard to overcome.
01:41 PM Ameisen: Forward+ and Deferred+ (and their variants) mitigate some, but things like reflection tend to still be very, very difficult to do correctly.
01:41 PM Ameisen: whereas ray tracing handles reflection implicitly.
01:43 PM Ameisen: I think the goal is to just trick gamers into thinking that reflections don't exist in reality.
01:44 PM nuxil: lokl
01:44 PM MrFahrenheit: I wish I could find a way to tell which process caused a disk to spin up
01:45 PM nuxil: are you on windows ?
01:45 PM MrFahrenheit: no
01:46 PM MrFahrenheit: and this is for a server
01:46 PM Ameisen: I'm personally a fan of Forward+ though
01:46 PM Ameisen: Deferred schemes tend to have issues with transparency.
01:47 PM MrFahrenheit: everyone seems to overdo ssao with deferred
01:47 PM Ameisen: SSAO isn't really associated with either
01:47 PM Ameisen: it's a separate pass
01:48 PM Ameisen: I dislike SSAO - it's not a real-life thing
01:48 PM Ameisen: it literally doesn't exist. It's been tested.
01:48 PM Ameisen: It just looks better to people for some reason
01:49 PM Ameisen: however, both forward and deferred write to the depth buffer since they have to, and that's all SSAO relies on.
01:49 PM MrFahrenheit: it's just an approximation of real ao, like everything else in game rendering
01:49 PM Ameisen: Problem is that SSAO approximates it... very wrong
01:49 PM Ameisen: https://nothings.org/gamedev/ssao/
01:52 PM Ameisen: I suspect SSAO can be improved quite a bit by implement some simple tracing.
01:52 PM Ameisen: more than what it does by default, at least
01:53 PM Ameisen: instead of just trying to find occluders, also trying to figure out the ambient lighting path
02:22 PM MrFahrenheit: who mentioned they hate python earlier?
02:22 PM MrFahrenheit: desperek!
02:25 PM nuxil: jup he did
02:26 PM MrFahrenheit: I wanted to inform him that I'm writing a python library right now
02:27 PM nuxil: here put this as your wall paper an you will start loving python :D https://i.gyazo.com/ada02a684e07d7badfbb7fc0a0df1039.jpg
02:27 PM nuxil: @desperek,
02:27 PM nuxil: :D
02:27 PM nuxil: MrFahrenheit, what kind of lib?
02:28 PM MrFahrenheit: just a wrapper around the c wrapper around the rust lib I wrote last week
02:28 PM MrFahrenheit: for usb
02:35 PM Ameisen: most of my scripts are ruby
02:35 PM Ameisen: otherwise I just use C++
02:35 PM MrFahrenheit: although I'm still considering using SWIG...
03:12 PM polprog: damn fallout. hangs all the time
03:18 PM nuxil: if it annoys you.. just stop playing it :p
03:19 PM polprog: no
03:19 PM polprog: :D
03:20 PM antto: i was not talking about "realtime" wtf.. games are silly
03:21 PM antto: photorealism and accurateness requires heavy processing
03:21 PM antto: btw, blender (cycles) can do gpu rendering
03:21 PM antto: *as you edit the scene*
03:21 PM antto: it's fantastic, if you have a decent gpu
03:22 PM antto: aren't dynamic lights in games infinitely small points in space?
03:22 PM antto: and does their light even bounce off?
03:24 PM nuxil: polprog, you should :p
03:26 PM nuxil: think about it :) you spend lets say 4-5 hours a week on gameing which gives you 0 in return. thats about 200-250 hours wasted of your life each year. why not take a intreset in something else that is FUN but also gives you usefull knowledge?
03:27 PM nuxil: not saying that beeing a irc junkie is any better tho.. :p
03:28 PM MrFahrenheit: reminds me of that "where's your ferari" joke
03:29 PM nuxil: :D
03:30 PM nuxil: yea. its funny that one. been a while since i heard it. but there is some truth to it :)
03:33 PM nuxil: MrFahrenheit, anyway. we dont know if the woman has a ferrari or not. all the joke ends with is "Where's your ferrari" :p
03:34 PM MrFahrenheit: true
03:39 PM Emil: Wtf
03:39 PM Emil: error: field ‘o’ has incomplete type
03:40 PM nuxil: Emil, what you making now?
03:40 PM Emil: nuxil: a json parser
03:41 PM nuxil: for what purpose ?
03:41 PM Emil: Parsingjson
03:41 PM Emil: ayncase
03:42 PM Emil: I have all forwards declarations
03:42 PM Emil: what the heck am I missing
03:44 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/d/incomplete.c
03:44 PM antto: * virus alert *
05:33 PM polprog: nuxil: i dont play that much. maybe 5 hours a month total
05:33 PM polprog: sitting and poking around in electronics on the other hand
05:33 PM polprog: :p
05:33 PM polprog: is a whole different story
05:38 PM nuxil: https://math-magic.herokuapp.com/
05:38 PM nuxil: thats cool
05:47 PM polprog: hehe. funny
06:19 PM MrFahrenheit: nuxil, banggood claims they shipped my printer yesterday, not sure I believe that they work sundays
06:32 PM nuxil: MrFahrenheit, where is it comming from ? china ? if so they do things a bit different.
06:33 PM nuxil: did you get a tracking number aswell ? or just msg that its has been shipped ?
06:34 PM nuxil: man i just spend the last houre fiddeling with my Bed.
06:34 PM nuxil: they say. put a glass on your bed. it will make your models come off easyer.
06:34 PM nuxil: so i find a old frame and cut the glass to size
06:35 PM nuxil: then i see the glass is parabolic :/
06:35 PM nuxil: what a waste of time :p
06:36 PM nuxil: cant wait for my auto bed levler sensor to come.
06:36 PM nuxil: this manual adjustment is a nightmare :p
06:40 PM nuxil: MrFahrenheit, a tip for you. you might not want to print directly on your bed when you get you printer.
06:40 PM nuxil: i did, and i though i was gonna dammage the bed. the model was like glued onto it.
06:41 PM nuxil: so better print on some film. papertape, glass or something. glass is good if its flat :p
06:51 PM MrFahrenheit: china yeah, got the tracking number, but it's not tracking yet
06:52 PM MrFahrenheit: the cr10 comes with a glass sheet, although I hear it's almost always curved like yours
06:52 PM MrFahrenheit: people recommend buying a mirror since they're likely to be flat
06:52 PM MrFahrenheit: but some also use aluminium foil to shim it straight
06:59 PM Smashcat: Hi, anyone tried using the ADC on an ATTiny24/44/84? I'm getting readings between 97 (DEC) at 0v to 153 (DEC) at 5v. Seems pretty small. That's with a 1/16 prescaler at 1mhz internal
06:59 PM Smashcat: This is using an 8 bit read (left shift)
07:00 PM LeoNerd: I do ADC on that all the time, yeah
07:00 PM LeoNerd: It's a kindof terrible ADC, but I wouldn't expect it to vary _quite_ that much
07:02 PM Smashcat: Yeah, I've only got a range of 56, from 0-5v. Seems a bit rubbish. Thinking of using a discrete ADC chip with the project
07:02 PM LeoNerd: Well.. it's supposed to be about 0 at 0V and about 1024 at about Vref; so something is rather wrong there
07:03 PM LeoNerd: I often see bit errors in the 2 or 3 LSBs, but overall the topmost bits should all be reliable
07:03 PM Smashcat: That's what I thought. Think maybe the chip has a problem.
07:04 PM LeoNerd: It's possible; though also check your initialisation and reading code
07:05 PM Smashcat: Here's what I'm doing: https://pastecode.xyz/view/e0fad7e9
07:05 PM Smashcat: (just the relevant parts)
07:06 PM LeoNerd: My first thought: why reading ADCH? Just read ADC directly
07:06 PM Smashcat: Well I'm only reading 8 bits, so just used that
07:07 PM LeoNerd: I could imagine the peripheral might get upset if you don't read it in the proper sequence
07:08 PM Smashcat: Is there something wrong with the way I'm reading it? I get a steady 97 at 0v.
07:09 PM LeoNerd: 97 decimal is a lowercase 'a' in ASCII. I'd start to slightly question how you're getting the value back
07:09 PM LeoNerd: 97 decimal is also 0x61, which has three high bits, not all adjacent, so seems unlikely to be a value observed midway through conversion
07:10 PM Smashcat: Yep I noticed that - I don't think it's relevant. I'm sending the bytes via RF (433mhz) to a receiver. I've tested it just counting from 0-255 and it does send the correct values.
07:11 PM LeoNerd: Mm.. well, always useful to check :) OK
07:13 PM LeoNerd: Is divide-16 the right prescale value?
07:13 PM Smashcat: I think 16 is right for 1mhz
07:13 PM Smashcat: I have tried 8 too, but it's the same
07:14 PM LeoNerd: you need 50-200kHz. 1MHz/16 = 62.5kHz, so that seems fine
07:14 PM Smashcat: Thinking it might be damaged. I have been using it with some test boards I'm working on, and I know the power supply was set to 6v for a while (my mistake!)
07:14 PM LeoNerd: Hmm.. it might be. Do you have another chip to swap/compare with?
07:15 PM LeoNerd: I always like to have a big stack so I can swap them around
07:15 PM Smashcat: The code does work fine on an ATTiny25
07:15 PM Smashcat: I'll have some more 44's delivered tomorrow
07:15 PM LeoNerd: Ah, now the ADC units are slightly different between the tinyx4 and the tinyx5
07:16 PM Smashcat: Yep, I've been looking through the data sheets, to see the differences. I think it's mainly the mux, isn't it?
07:16 PM LeoNerd: mux and ref, yes
07:16 PM Smashcat: I think I have the right values for that. Top 2 bits of ADMUX are zero, so it should be a 5v ref.
07:16 PM LeoNerd: Though all-bits-zero in your case would select ADC0 against a ref of VCC in both cases
07:17 PM LeoNerd: Yah; I can't see anything wrong with your code, so at this point I'd be suspecting the chip and swapping it out
07:17 PM Smashcat: That's what I'm working with. I'm only checking ADC0 at the mo.
07:17 PM Smashcat: Ok cool, thanks man, I'll wait and check another chip tomorrow
07:19 PM LeoNerd: What's the use-case for the ADC? I find it works OK for things like reading analog button chains, or sense resistors on optional cable/connector/modules
07:19 PM LeoNerd: But I don't use it for any actual "measurement" work; for that I usually attach a real I²C or SPI one
07:20 PM Smashcat: I'm just using it for touch sensing. It's a low power project - the device wakes up every 2 seconds, checks the pads, and sends over any combination that are touched to another device.
07:20 PM LeoNerd: Ohright; yes I've done touch with the ATmega's ADC before as well
07:21 PM Smashcat: It's working great on an ATMega328, but I'm trying to make it cheaper and the 44 is ideal (acutally going to be using 24's as my code will fit easily in 2k)
07:21 PM LeoNerd: Mm... smallest chip I've ever used for things is an 8K
07:21 PM LeoNerd: I tend to just keep squeezing in more features ;)
07:22 PM LeoNerd: Oh, wait no I have a couple of 'tiny13s on things
07:22 PM LeoNerd: https://www.tindie.com/products/leonerd/4-way-identifying-continuity-tester/ <== Runs on a tiny13
07:22 PM Smashcat: Heh, I modified a manchester encoding library to send data to the RF module (the ATTiny also switches it off before sleeping) and the whole thing comes in at about 1200 bytes
07:22 PM LeoNerd: My other tiny13 is a UART-attached single-channel PWM controller for a nightlight
07:23 PM LeoNerd: Ooh; the 'tiny is doing RF modulation? Fancy.
07:23 PM Smashcat: Cool, I like the 13's too. I have a bunch here waiting to try them out :)
07:23 PM LeoNerd: I tend to do radio with an nRF24L01 module and just spit SPI at it
07:24 PM Smashcat: Yeah for me it's about price. I have to build these units for under £4, including battery, and they need to last for 8 weeks. It's tight!
07:24 PM LeoNerd: Mm.. 8 weeks is tough indeed
07:24 PM LeoNerd: Mine are cueing equipment for stage shows; so as long as it lasts an evening's performance I'm happy
07:24 PM Smashcat: It should be ok - when it's just checking the pads it's using well under a mA
07:25 PM Smashcat: I'll take a look at your projects :)
07:25 PM LeoNerd: Oh most of those aren't on my Tindie page.. the page is stuff I make to sell. it's usually equipment that I've made
07:26 PM Smashcat: Most of my stuff is for events. Almost always one-off things. This is the first time I've made something that will be replicated thousands of times in China :)
07:27 PM LeoNerd: Mmm.. yeah; it's different doing one-off vs. things to sell
07:27 PM LeoNerd: Alot of my oneshots are on stripboard, or lately protoboard + kynar
07:27 PM Smashcat: For sure. Also having to get involved with the case designs etc. It's interesting stuff!
07:27 PM Smashcat: For one thing I've learned that touch sensing can be done through metal now?!
07:28 PM LeoNerd: Well.. most of my stuff that's sold is PCB modules, so I don't have to deal with enclosures
07:28 PM LeoNerd: Sometime I'll justify buying a CNC mill, and at that point I might do more casework
07:28 PM Smashcat: That's the best way I think. Leave the case designs to people who enjoy doing that :))
07:29 PM Smashcat: I've seen people use PCBs to actually make the cases too. Thaey actually look kind of cool
07:29 PM LeoNerd: I do get front panels made..
07:29 PM Smashcat: ...in a geeky way
07:29 PM Smashcat: Really want to make a cool little PCB business card when I get time. Maybe with an e-paper display
07:30 PM LeoNerd: https://twitter.com/cpan_pevans/status/915330882457743360 -- commercially-made front panel
07:30 PM LeoNerd: CNC'ed aluminium-magnesium. *insanely* expensive for what it is
07:30 PM Smashcat: Looks really good though
07:30 PM LeoNerd: That one panel cost me nearly £40. For a sense of size - those two plugs on the far right edge are 4mm banans
07:31 PM Smashcat: Is that a custom LCD?
07:31 PM LeoNerd: Nope; it's just a generic OLED
07:31 PM LeoNerd: SSD1306 thing. Those can be had for £3 on eBay ;)
07:31 PM Smashcat: Ah right. I have been looking into custom LCDs too - they're actually pretty easy to get made!
07:31 PM Smashcat: (and save a lot of power)
07:31 PM LeoNerd: Given how cheap OLEDs are, I really have little interest in an LCD. Each LCD segment is either on, or off
07:32 PM LeoNerd: The text at the bottom of my screen is labels for the soft buttons - it's dynamic and can change
07:32 PM LeoNerd: LCD can't do that
07:32 PM Smashcat: Ah right yeah
07:32 PM LeoNerd: I verymuch appreciate the customisability and "hack it in later" of a generic grid of pixels
07:33 PM Smashcat: Yeah I use them quite a bit, but the custom LCD's will be good for an upcoming project. It does depend on the design.
07:34 PM LeoNerd: Probably worth it for your battery power, if you have a fixed design in volume
07:35 PM Smashcat: Oh yeah for sure, they work out really cheap, and low power in volume. Probably why they're used everywhere. You can even get the ones that do multicolour now, they synchronise the update of the display with an RGB LED backlight, so they can make segments different colours.Pretty cool!
07:35 PM LeoNerd: Ooooh... cunning
07:36 PM LeoNerd: I hadn't thought of doing it that way. That's cute
07:36 PM LeoNerd: Oh that's really nice. I like that :)
07:36 PM Smashcat: Yeah, me neither - saw it here :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1LvleZcJm0&t=364s
07:36 PM LeoNerd: Though shame it won't work in daylight without the backlight
07:36 PM Smashcat: Yeah, and the update rate has to be really fast.
07:37 PM LeoNerd: And only 8 colours of course
07:37 PM Smashcat: Well you could PWM more I guess.
07:38 PM LeoNerd: I expect at that point you're refreshing so fast that battery life is starting to be an issue
07:38 PM Smashcat: Yep I don't think they're suitable for low power stuff.
07:40 PM Smashcat: You can get custom LCDs that don't need any backlights though - I'm working on a project to make custom displays for e-bikes, and been trying them out. If you live in a city with streetlights you casn still see the display. Been interesting decoding the data from the bike controller :)
07:40 PM LeoNerd: I suppose LED backlight also does that for battery
07:41 PM Smashcat: Yeah they're not great if you run them at 100%. I'm PWMing them with this project on the receiver units (also battery powered) and can get them down to around 1mA running 3 LEDs with PWM.
07:41 PM Smashcat: I think they're 33mA if I just switch them on :)
07:44 PM LeoNerd: "field sequential colour", they all it
07:45 PM Smashcat: I think it is cool, so they display could all flash red for an error etc. On the e-bikes I'm thinking of changing the colour based on the speed.
07:46 PM Smashcat: Better get some sleep I guess. Thanks!
10:48 PM _ami_: https://www.reddit.com/r/avr/comments/8989v0/fastusbasp_another_avr_programmer/
11:12 PM Casper: your own post?
11:31 PM _ami_: Casper, yes.
11:35 PM day__ is now known as day
11:51 PM Casper: _ami_: might want to add a comment with more info