#avr Logs
Feb 16 2018
#avr Calendar
01:47 AM unregisteredandu: hi
02:10 AM rue_bed: low
02:42 AM Jartza: middle
10:39 AM Jartza: hmmh
11:38 AM unregisteredandu: tristate
11:40 AM theBear: anyone know off-hand what the noisefloor is like on yer average avr adc, either in relation to real (m)V's or as a low-bits/digital-side value with some given ref voltage ?
11:45 AM day__ is now known as day
11:45 AM unregisteredandu: theBear: approximately .5 LSB
11:46 AM unregisteredandu: theBear: but i read that you can get about +2 bits of precision by injecting noise in the adc and oversampling
11:47 AM unregisteredandu: i actually tried oversampling with a weighted average filter continuously and i got neat transitions
11:48 AM theBear: mmmmm, a little head math says that is more than accurate enough to read a teeny weeny low value low current shunt
11:48 AM unregisteredandu: i would say it is at least 12 bit accurate and it can get 14-16 bitsoversampled (at a slow rate)
11:49 AM theBear: and mm, now i think about things, i've got a longtime habit of thingslike running averages and weighting to smooth various analog inputs in micro world
11:49 AM unregisteredandu: theBear: for that you can use the internal 1V1 ref and you get smalrlest steps
11:49 AM unregisteredandu: theBear: that is a good habit
11:50 AM theBear: 1v1 now ? wowee that's low ! tho i suspect my less-than-latest various avr's might not quite go that far
11:50 AM unregisteredandu: i am in progress developing interrupt driven button sensing too with software debounce
11:50 AM theBear: in the past i mostly only done higher voltage stuff with vcc ref and reading pots and things with avr adc, but i recall an extended discussion about the various internal refs some years ago
11:51 AM unregisteredandu: yeah my atmega has 1v1 internal bandgap, and even a diode for temp sensing
11:51 AM unregisteredandu: if calibrated it can measure at approx 1C precision
11:51 AM nuxil: unregisteredandu, software debounce, you lazy bastard :p put in a cap :p
11:51 AM nuxil: just kidding :p
11:51 AM theBear: how you approaching soft-debouncing ? i've never been able to settle on "the right approach" for doing it in soft, tho i a bit of a caveman too, so a passive or two on the hw side tends to make me happy
11:51 AM theBear: temp sensey diode ? wtf fancy atmega is that ?
11:52 AM unregisteredandu: nuxil: caps can fail or be damaged too, and what if i need a trigger signal with defined time length
11:53 AM unregisteredandu: theBear: i have used PCINT and the interrupt runs a countdown timer ~4ms per tick, 8x8 bits, if defined amount of time, and no bounceback then button state change accepted
11:54 AM theBear: hmm, what you mean with the "8x8 bits" exactly ?
11:54 AM unregisteredandu: theBear: i also do button polarity sense at reset ;)
11:54 AM theBear: oooh, aren't we fancy and auto-configurey with our button inputs <grin>
11:54 AM unregisteredandu: theBear: 8 byte countdown timers for each pinchange ?
11:55 AM unregisteredandu: ya, im very comfy, i can just switch input polarity and press reset
11:56 AM unregisteredandu: it also disables shorted buttons btw ;)
11:56 AM nuxil: unregisteredandu, you mean if you want a variable time lenght right ? coes if you want a fixed time length a cap will do prescicly that.
11:56 AM theBear: 8byte countdown ? wouldn't that end up being 256*4ms ? or am i too tired to brain today
11:56 AM unregisteredandu: theBear: yes but each button has configurable threshold time :)
11:56 AM unregisteredandu: so +8 bytes
11:56 AM theBear: heh, the shorted buttons ignore puts your input tech ahead of most commercial anythings, AND a lot of computers ... nice work
11:57 AM unregisteredandu: theBear: i know ;)
11:57 AM nuxil: im doing software decouncing myself fomr my r2r keyboard. this this is so jumpy that i need to take 3 sample to esure i got the right button :p
11:58 AM unregisteredandu: would be quite annoying to have a dead button and not be able to use a device that could have been used without that button
11:58 AM theBear: oh ok, i think i got it, wait tho, no bounceback you say, don't switches tend to bounce at on and off transitions ? or you just ignore some part of the on/off cycle maybe ? or you doing more like "listen for bounces to stop" concept ?
11:59 AM unregisteredandu: theBear: read again :)
11:59 AM theBear: unregisteredandu, tell that to almost every commercial/"professional" micro programmer everywhere ... (re: dead button!=dead device)
11:59 AM unregisteredandu: edge polarity independent
12:00 PM unregisteredandu: i think i created an industrial thing.
12:00 PM theBear: unregisteredandu, i think it's just too late, but it was the counting/timing side of things i always been indecisive/bothered about, so i ain't gonna worry right now
12:00 PM unregisteredandu: need some cleanup and make it a buttonscan.h
12:01 PM nuxil: are you uing simple buttons like "tact" buttons. or do you use some sort of keypad ? matrix|r2r etc.
12:02 PM nuxil: *?
12:02 PM unregisteredandu: nuxil: i used buttans, but whatever i use i can apply this logic, do you think your matrix wont bounce?
12:03 PM unregisteredandu: anyway i want out of buttons, i want hall buttons and capacitive buttons
12:03 PM nuxil: well if hte matrix is made of tact buttons or like that-. yes it will bounce
12:03 PM theBear: my matrix don't bounce, but it's full of pots :-)
12:03 PM nuxil: not sure about these membran stuff tho. havent messed around with them.
12:03 PM unregisteredandu: my next board will have capsense buttons on board that will work from the back side
12:04 PM theBear: nuxil, they're cheap and wear poorly
12:05 PM unregisteredandu: the dome membrane switch shit is shorting 2 metal connections together, it fails in many ways
12:05 PM nuxil: lol and now you tell me. i have like 5 of them in a order on ebay :p
12:05 PM theBear: reminds me, my fancy everything ir remote needs a little service... my favourite function and my favourite channel are getting harder, and now impossible to press (channel 22... that poor 2 button has had a hard life)
12:06 PM unregisteredandu: nuxil: if you dont mind the additional calculus you can put 3 tiny circles on board surrounded by ground plane and you have your capsense button
12:06 PM theBear: unregisteredandu, you mean the moderner ones that click like tact switches ? cos those are just the click outta a tact switch and basically nothing else (while tact has all kinds of nicely shaped and dimensioned bits to keep the clickey disc working
12:06 PM theBear: )
12:06 PM nuxil: unregisteredandu, i dont like cap buttons.
12:07 PM unregisteredandu: nuxil: they never die ;)
12:07 PM nuxil: i prefere mechanical buttons tho. :)
12:08 PM unregisteredandu: nuxil: hall and cap mechanical buttons can be created water and acid proof
12:08 PM nuxil: there are pros and cons with both button types.
12:09 PM unregisteredandu: nuxil: glue on a metal plate with silicone on your capsense and you have your pushbutton
12:09 PM nuxil: bah.
12:09 PM unregisteredandu: it will work even if you pross with welding gloves
12:10 PM * nuxil orders a pack of 50 buttons for 2€ on ebay instead
12:10 PM unregisteredandu: and live in hell eternally after they fail at random :)
12:11 PM nuxil: dont cost much to replace one if it does :p
12:11 PM unregisteredandu: it does cost, also forbids user to use thing while dead
12:12 PM unregisteredandu: what is worse it dies at randow, unexpectedly
12:12 PM nuxil: i dont sell stuff
12:12 PM unregisteredandu: pressing the stop button dont work in your oven, and it burns your food, your day is fuked then
12:13 PM APic: Ok
12:13 PM nuxil: i have managed to burn alot of food without faulty tact buttons :p
12:14 PM unregisteredandu: nuxil: timer ;>
12:14 PM unregisteredandu: and process temperature control
12:14 PM nuxil: more like. pizza in oven and totaly forget about it. go into my lab and sit there until the smoke detector triggers :p
12:14 PM unregisteredandu: if the pan's temp does not exceed 100°C it is pretty safe from burning
12:15 PM unregisteredandu: yeah an oven works as 1: select temperature, 2: select time, 3: press start
12:15 PM unregisteredandu: it can also beep at end
12:17 PM unregisteredandu: new induction heaters i hate for example because they are made cheap shit idiotic for idiots, and limited to 180 minute timer and 60 - 240C temp control that is thit too
12:17 PM unregisteredandu: so new electronic consumer devices are shitty shit
12:18 PM nuxil: ofcource.
12:18 PM * unregisteredandu signing shitty shit certificate for induction heaters
12:18 PM unregisteredandu: i want to hack one bad but it takes time to reverse the control board
12:19 PM unregisteredandu: i have atmega168s ready for brain transplant
12:19 PM nuxil: its a capitalistic and materialistic world we live in. if they make something that last 50 yers. they be out of buisness fast :p
12:19 PM learath: heh
12:19 PM learath: nuxil: I've actually been thinking that reversing that is how we become sustainable.
12:19 PM nuxil: indeed.
12:20 PM unregisteredandu: anticapitalism
12:20 PM learath: not exactly
12:20 PM learath: anticonsumerism I guess?
12:20 PM learath: you can still absolutely make money
12:20 PM unregisteredandu: no
12:20 PM learath: you just can't design your apple to fail every year
12:20 PM learath: sorry I mean 'product'
12:20 PM unregisteredandu: consumer grade should disappear.
12:21 PM unregisteredandu: rebrand it shit grade
12:21 PM unregisteredandu: trash
12:21 PM learath: apple would *never* deliberately break their products to drive demand!
12:21 PM unregisteredandu: samsung does
12:21 PM nuxil: but the mindset of people need to change. like. people get new phones every 1&2 years. that like wtf why? i got a phone from 2005 and it still works. got a shitty camera but it work.
12:22 PM nuxil: no need to get a new one aslong as it works and do what i want it to do.
12:22 PM learath: well, I mean, you build in a shitty battery good for 1000 cycles maximum, lifetime of 8 hours per cycle, and replacing it costs almost as much as a new phone...
12:22 PM nuxil: that stuff should be illegal
12:22 PM unregisteredandu: btw, buttons: i have a philips tft monitor in front of me that started to not be uable because the shitti shit buttons short partially at random time interval
12:23 PM unregisteredandu: i have hit it several times with fist and then with a screwdriver and it worked again, then i needed to abuse it a little with the screwdriver to not short
12:23 PM nuxil: contact spray :p
12:23 PM unregisteredandu: nah
12:23 PM nuxil: fist better ?
12:24 PM unregisteredandu: also i didnt want to take it apart ;/
12:24 PM unregisteredandu: i have buttons from decent 15+ year old equipment
12:25 PM unregisteredandu: but you see the monitor works without buttons now, i never touched it since months, but when it did randomly press the volume and display messages like menu locked and shit at random when it should only display your image
12:25 PM unregisteredandu: ...
12:25 PM unregisteredandu: you can lose it
12:26 PM unregisteredandu: and hit it
12:26 PM unregisteredandu: "philips lets make things better"...
12:28 PM unregisteredandu: [19:19] <learath> well, I mean, you build in a shitty battery good for 1000 cycles maximum, lifetime of 8 hours per cycle, and replacing it costs almost as much as a new phone... - worse, 300 cycles
12:28 PM unregisteredandu: 1 year warranty
12:28 PM unregisteredandu: and it has an internal circuit that will disable itself permanently after some condition is met
12:28 PM unregisteredandu: it wont ever work again even if you put new cells in it
12:29 PM unregisteredandu: this is the new world trend
12:30 PM unregisteredandu: oh btw, if you charge your lithium batt to 4.2V you get 300 cycles for example, and if you charge to 4V1 you get 1000 cycles
12:30 PM unregisteredandu: 4V2 for lithium is consumer shit rating
12:30 PM learath: so apple charges to 4.3?
12:30 PM unregisteredandu: MIL spec is 3V9
12:30 PM learath: :P
12:31 PM unregisteredandu: so 50-60% capacity
12:31 PM unregisteredandu: but it will last for many years >7
12:49 PM polprog: https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20799313_242317656289721_7085149001720009226_n.png?oh=f7cfc47746a014ece051452b0f3cd16d&oe=5B1D493A
01:02 PM nuxil: ok. join the ##stm32 guys :p
01:03 PM polprog: nah
01:03 PM polprog: i sitll do avrs ;)
01:04 PM nuxil: so far im only doing avrs :p
01:04 PM polprog: no drive to look at different stuff, even a bit?
01:04 PM nuxil: i orderd a couple of new chips today.
01:04 PM nuxil: atmega88-20pu :p
01:05 PM nuxil: + crystals. 16&20 mhz ones so i got a few in stock
01:06 PM polprog: i need to get some crystals
01:06 PM polprog: 1, 8, and 16 mhz
01:07 PM nuxil: it a must have
01:08 PM polprog: that pic there could be labeled "when you switch from external 32k xtal to the internal RC osc" as well
01:08 PM nuxil: hehe true
01:09 PM nuxil: or from internal rc to a 16/20 mhz crystal :p
01:10 PM Davs: Hi! If I have an interrupt handler registered and for a quick operation a disable interrupts (cli(); do_stuff(); sei()) and an interrupt condition (low signal on PIN) occurs during do_stuff(), will the interrupt fire after I enable interrupts again?
01:10 PM polprog: nuxil: "CKDIV8=1"
01:10 PM nuxil: keep your internal rc with div in for your self. i prefere crystals ;)
01:11 PM polprog: Davs: do you need to disable interrupts inside the ISR? http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/group__avr__interrupts.html
01:13 PM Davs: No, not inside the ISR. I have a small ring buffer for communicating with another chip; the ISR writes to the ring buffer and the loop() function reads from it
01:14 PM polprog: ok, i understood your handler was cli() stuff() sei()
01:14 PM Davs: I think I need to disable interrupts in loop(), so I can atomically access and modify (read from) the ring buffer
01:15 PM polprog: the docs say its better to use util/atomic.h
01:16 PM Davs: yeah I just saw that. Interrupts are supposed to be disabled inside an atomic block?
01:17 PM polprog: http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/group__util__atomic.html
01:17 PM Davs: so it should handle cli and sei for me
01:18 PM Davs: my question however stays the same: is the need for running an ISR registered, while the global interrupt flag is 0? So after I enable interrupts will it fire?
01:22 PM polprog: from datahseet of atmega16 (i had this on at hand)
01:22 PM polprog: f one or more interrupt conditions occur while the Global Interrupt
01:22 PM polprog: Enable bit is clea
01:22 PM polprog: red, the corres
01:22 PM polprog: ponding Interrupt Fl
01:22 PM polprog: ag(s) will be set and remembered until the
01:22 PM polprog: global interrupt enable bit is set, and will then be executed by order of priority
01:22 PM polprog: damn formatting
01:22 PM polprog: so the answer is yes
01:23 PM polprog: global insterrupt bit is what cli and sei modify
01:23 PM Davs: thanks for the help and for the good news :)
01:24 PM polprog: np :)
01:24 PM Davs: atm I have only 1 byte buffer for the communication (I though it would be enough), but sometimes I miss some data, so I'll implement a bigger buffer for it :)
01:27 PM nuxil: cli/sei will enable/disable all set interrupts. may not be desidred in some cases and you only want a spesific interrupt to be disabled. Ie. ADC or whatever.
01:57 PM day__ is now known as day
02:20 PM day__ is now known as day
02:52 PM Jartza: I can't find any information if Microchip or distributors provide pre-programmed attiny10 chips
02:52 PM Jartza: lot of other chips are selectable in microchipdirect, but not attiny10 :(
02:54 PM Emil: Jartza: just message them
02:54 PM Emil: The price was quite cheap iirc
02:57 PM Emil: Jartza: whatcha using attin10 for btw?
04:03 PM Jartza: Emil: for friend's business, some vape stuff
04:08 PM Emil: Yeah but
04:08 PM Emil: whatchausingitforinthatproduct?:D
04:08 PM nuxil: so no spaceship?
04:09 PM nuxil: :p
05:20 PM unregisteredandu: polprog: int rc osc not good enough ?
05:20 PM unregisteredandu: it can do 1 4 and 8MHz in mega8
05:22 PM unregisteredandu: [20:05] <polprog> that pic there could be labeled "when you switch from external 32k xtal to the internal RC osc" as well - an atmega168pa does not consume that much less at 32KHz compared to 1MHz ... it is not worth it
05:22 PM unregisteredandu: you have to use sleep modes to get low power
05:23 PM unregisteredandu: [20:08] <nuxil> keep your internal rc with div in for your self. i prefere crystals ;) i prefer a watch crystal for timebase and internal 8MHz RC osc for CPU ;)
05:23 PM unregisteredandu: timer2 can be set as asynchronous timer from 32768Hz xtal
05:31 PM unregisteredandu: nah soldered some smd stuff with a 75W halogen light an sunglasses
05:44 PM day__ is now known as day
06:00 PM day__ is now known as day
06:30 PM LeoNerd: Anyone ever used an AVR ADC differential mode to sense a voltage drop on a current sense resistor? Is it accurate enough?
06:32 PM LeoNerd: I'm thinking 0.5ohm; 0 to 100mA. 100mA would be 50mV drop, so at gain=x20, that's 1V. Just shy of the internal 1V1 reference
06:34 PM LeoNerd: LSB is 1.07mV normally; so 54µV of input, 100µA. Probably fine?
06:42 PM cehteh: LeoNerd: how exact do you need it? i once just used the voltage drop around the switching fet for current sensing (just overcurrent protection, not exact measuring)
06:42 PM cehteh: no gain either
06:43 PM LeoNerd: Not hugely accurate. just a ballpark, to see if it's drawing too much
06:43 PM cehteh: should be fine
06:43 PM LeoNerd: Hmm.. though; can differential ADC input go right up to VCC?
06:45 PM cehteh: dunno how noisy the gain is, add a rc filter to the input, without gain you still get some reasonable values, for me that was 0..65 out of 0..1023 10bit, thats still good enough for current sensing
06:45 PM cehteh: accurate enough for overcurrent protection
06:46 PM LeoNerd: I can try it out tomorrow. A first estimate here looks like it might work
06:47 PM cehteh: you can also use the analog comparator to generate an interrupt on overcurrent, little more inflexible as you need to preset that current by resistors/trimmers
06:48 PM cehteh: i think either way should work pretty well, no worries
06:54 PM LeoNerd: Oh, I want to display numbers on a screen too
06:54 PM LeoNerd: so it's not just a limit
06:57 PM cehteh: ah
06:57 PM cehteh: well then ADC, calibrate by software, you prolly get some coarse accuracy but should work nevertheless
07:10 PM rue_: how the heck would you float the avr for the differential
07:10 PM rue_: hmm or you mean within the 5V
11:01 PM nuxil: mornings
11:01 PM * nuxil sips his coffee
11:09 PM rue_shop3: yes, I need food
11:09 PM nuxil: does anyone of a desent alternative to "diectory opus" that opensource. for windows.
11:12 PM rue_shop3: ?
11:12 PM rue_shop3: if you use windows, you have to pay for your software
11:12 PM rue_shop3: ... that just how it works
11:13 PM nuxil: not sure what rock you been living under. but there are tonz of opensource projects for windows aswell :p
11:13 PM theBear: depends what "diectory opus" does, or even directory opus, which would be the name of whatever it is, if the person who named it used real words :)
11:13 PM nuxil: an free ones
11:15 PM nuxil: theBear,typo. "directory"..opus ,its a filemanager btw.
11:16 PM nuxil: i trird several "commander" apps. "double commnader etc" but they suck.
11:18 PM nuxil: rue_shop3, but yea. in general. on windows there is like 99% payware 1% freeware. and the opositte with linux :p
11:18 PM theBear: hmm, what kinda filemanager ? and unless you like midnight commander (most non-win *commander* fileman's are based on it, but in win and droid land, many named commander aren't remotely similar to it, either way it's been very popular since the days before gui's) i spose i'd errrrm, there's one or two on "hirens boot cd" that i recall were pretty usable, and that means they open and available for ms-win... the website for hirens lists all the apps on
11:18 PM theBear: there by category for yer to look up
11:19 PM nuxil: i like "mc" i use it all the time on my linuxbox
11:19 PM rue_shop3: nuxil, I use Bash
11:19 PM nuxil: but mc is like text based.
11:20 PM nuxil: ncurses or whatever its called
11:22 PM unregisteredandu: mc works on a terminal
11:22 PM theBear: nuxil, pretty sure there's a kinda hybrid not-VERY-modified version around for mswin, if not surely there's the original text version
11:23 PM rue_shop3: bash
11:23 PM nuxil: im looking for a Filemanager that has double|dual or more view like mc|"dir o" etc...and has network(winshare/smb) support
11:23 PM unregisteredandu: sup theBear
11:24 PM unregisteredandu: been soldering out 20 smd mosfets and some caps, resistors with a 75W halogen lamp
11:25 PM nuxil: heh :)
11:25 PM nuxil: mod your hair dryer :p
11:25 PM unregisteredandu: nah not now
11:25 PM nuxil: *or your girlfirends hair dryer so you get a heat gun :p
11:26 PM theBear: nuxil, look at the hirens list, heck, download the whole iso and make yerself a magic fix-any-pc-issue usb thinger while yer there
11:26 PM theBear: unregisteredandu, seriously ? damn ! you patient
11:26 PM unregisteredandu: i have 1 good hotair gun with digital display and another cheap one that i can hack...
11:26 PM unregisteredandu: theBear: it took 45-60 seconds to lift out an so8 from a cold board
11:27 PM unregisteredandu: didnt even preheat
11:27 PM unregisteredandu: so i was impationt :)
11:27 PM unregisteredandu: e
11:27 PM unregisteredandu: i would say the ramp-up is below critical
11:28 PM theBear: heh
11:28 PM unregisteredandu: i have 120W halogen too, but my 400W PSU cannot handle it ;/
11:29 PM unregisteredandu: and i only have an 50W halogen in 230V version now
11:29 PM unregisteredandu: the 500W line halogen would be overkill ;>
11:30 PM unregisteredandu: 500W halogen reflector is a reflow oven
11:31 PM theBear: that's why you wire a lighting (household) "dimmer switch" onto the back of a mains socket wallplate with a mains plug (cut up ex-iec lead) coming out of the not-close-to-enough electrical tape barely covering the connections for... also good for keeping a handle on cheap non-temp-controlled soldering irons if yer using one for some reason
11:31 PM unregisteredandu: yeah i dont have 230V pwm controls now
11:32 PM unregisteredandu: i have zvs relays though
11:32 PM day__ is now known as day
11:33 PM unregisteredandu: i regulated my IR toaster oven with a pt100 and a zvs ssr
11:33 PM unregisteredandu: baked cookies in it mmm
11:34 PM unregisteredandu: set it to 180°C
11:34 PM theBear: unregisteredandu, https://imgur.com/a/mKd9S here ya go, this'll make yer feel better bout the situation
11:34 PM theBear: not a lotta guys ya know, can dry a fone like this ! not many, if any <grin>
11:36 PM unregisteredandu: you sholud not dry it.
11:36 PM unregisteredandu: immerse in isopropanol, then dry at ~50C
11:37 PM unregisteredandu: it can also be good to put in ultrasonic cleaner
11:37 PM unregisteredandu: (the parts that can be)
11:39 PM unregisteredandu: quick dry wold be 85°C without battery, if the lcd can take it btw
11:39 PM theBear: i'm a professional, plus i'm retired and i gotta do things like make the worlds most irresponsibly inappropriate and electrically unsafe little setup, then put it in a metal laundry sink, to ya know, keep me outta trouble, and keep the madness from taking me over
11:39 PM unregisteredandu: i am in progress putting together a temp controller now with an ntc :>
11:40 PM theBear: also, even retired and working for half a pizza for an old friend, i'd only ever do such things to my own posessions
11:40 PM unregisteredandu: theBear: ok well now i have some mains stuff on my table unisolated and open i am developing
11:41 PM unregisteredandu: and i did twist a wire now on the 230V connector for a grill ;>>
11:42 PM theBear: unregisteredandu, just make sure yer follow the basic/traditional safety rules, and of course got a rcd somewhere upstream from yer (for emergencies, say if yer trip and faceplant on the live bits, real disaster without a rcd, minor surprise and maybe a little cut when you got one) and ya know, it's cool... generally i find people are over-cautious with mains, to the point that if they comfortable in the same room as exposed/live mains inside something,
11:42 PM theBear: they probly got enough experience to be sagfe
11:43 PM unregisteredandu: it only bites if you touch both wires ;)
11:43 PM unregisteredandu: tried
11:44 PM nuxil: messing around with mains is no joke.
11:44 PM unregisteredandu: nuxil: i tried 20KV too years ago
11:44 PM theBear: it is when i do it, course i'm only qualified to even consider such things 'cos i spent all those years religiously learning and following all the rules ;-)
11:45 PM nuxil: i thinks its worse to mess with mains in EU than USA :p
11:46 PM nuxil: 230/400 volt systems. while in usa only 120/? iirc
11:46 PM unregisteredandu: i should bring some food like things ;/
11:46 PM unregisteredandu: timeflieswhenyou
11:49 PM theBear: we got 240/415, much more fun ;-) i used to have 80amps worth of 3+n+e sockets on my workbench at old work (entertainment industry lighting was a big part of the job... was often elbow-deep probing around in live 415vac gear ;-] )
11:49 PM theBear: but rcd's are a real life saver, and should be considered ESSENTIAL for any kind of electronics workbench
11:50 PM nuxil: rcd? thats like this earh protecion switch ?
11:50 PM nuxil: dont know what this rcd means in english
11:50 PM * nuxil googles
11:51 PM nuxil: ahh yes
11:51 PM nuxil: thouse are life savers. and are manditory in my contry for some stuff. like chicken oven. bathroom etc.
11:53 PM nuxil: *chicken oven. lol wtf am i typing. i meant the kitchen owen. lol
11:53 PM nuxil: we dont use gas in our contry making food.
11:55 PM unregisteredandu: sun gives 1kW / m², and can be focused with aluminium foil.
11:56 PM nuxil: at this position i at. it gives 0.001w / m2
11:57 PM nuxil: that number? where is it taken from ? cos it surly aint right for where i am at ? equator at 12'o clock ?
11:58 PM theBear: nuxil, as of recently they not only compulsory on all domestic and office/non-industrial power/wall sockets, but also any lighting circuits (so idiots can't kill themselves changing a lightbulb,) and both older (since mid 90s or so for sockets) and the newer laws are strict.... ANY electrical work done (hard to get away without a license these days, and always been illegal without one to touch anything you can't unplug,) if there isn't one the
11:58 PM theBear: electrician MUST install one on the customers time/bill, or disconnect the power inside the fusebox if they refuse, plus anytime a lease is signed or a house is sold they MUST be installed before the lease/sale can legally happen... strangely enough aside from the occasional electrician (if yer socialise with other electricians,) you NEVER hear about electrocution deaths ANYWHERE in the country, which i think is pretty good !